Examples of red state welfare wanted

[NewJeffCT]

This is in response to a local LTTE about how blue states are less charitable than red states... I wanted to respond with how people in blue states might be more charitable if we didn't have to support those living on the government dole in the red states. I just wanted a few examples besides interstate highways.

Thanks

edited to add - the LTTE cited as their basis the Catalogue of Philanthropy's 2004 Generosity Index

[jus_the_facts]

1. hope you meant CORPORATE WELFARE all across the country....

....and the WORLD! :eyes:

[pmbryant]

2. In your letter, can you also mention...

how the whole terms "red state" and "blue state" are bogus and misleading?

See this for more details on this subject: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1345639

Thanks!
Peter

[SteppingRazor]

3. WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nine of the top ten states that pay the most in taxes are blue!
Eight of the top ten states that suck off the most federal money are red!
Tell this f--king idiot in some red state somewhere to pay for his own damn roads and get his facts straight!

As for "charitable" donations, he probably says this because he knows it's impossible to quantify, since there's no database of all charitable giving. But, the closest thing we have, The United Way, is HUGELY supported by blue states. Tell'em to suck on that too.

[NewJeffCT]

7. the LTTE cited

Catalogue of Philanthropy's 2004 Generosity Index for their definition of charitable giving.

[cattleman22]

23. Blue staters pay more taxes, red staters give more to charity

[SeattleDem]

4. links

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

I found this link at this site, which is hilarious:

http://www.fuckthesouth.com

"All those Federal taxes you love to hate? It all comes from us and goes to you, so shut up and enjoy your fucking Tennessee Valley Authority electricity and your fancy highways that we paid for. And the next time Florida gets hit by a hurricane you can come crying to us if you want to, but you're the ones who built on a fucking swamp. "Let the Spanish keep it, it’s a shithole," we said, but you had to have your fucking orange juice"

also, farm subsidies are a good example

[DuaneBidoux]

5. Go look at the site called Retro Vs. Metro

You might have to google it to get the exact address.

You can download the whole book in pdf for free, and although it's a bit of work to download the whole thing (you have to do it by chapters) the book is $35 dollars at the book store. TONS of valuable stats about red state welfare including some really interesting stats on how backward the red states are in real statistical terms (like SAT scores, etc.) compared to the Blue states.

By the way, before any red-staters get on my case I'm from Texas, but Texas also happens to be one of the few red states that actually gets the short end of the stick.

[zbdent]

6. How about how much of the "red" states depend on national parks

and the tourism that they generate?

Not exactly the "charity" per se, but I would bet that the closer you get to a national park, the higher the price of gas becomes . . .

[ArthurDent]

10. Minor expenditure

In 2003, $29.7m was spent in on natural resources and the environment (the Office of Budgetary Management doesn't seem to have a more appropriate category). That's out of more than $2b spent. So, you're looking at about 1% of the budget, maybe 1.5%. At that also includes nat'l parks in blue states like Acadia (ME).

[zbdent]

24. Yes, but you cut out the "national parks" budget altogether

and close up the national parks. No admission.

Hmm, then you get a lot of lost revenue for the local areas that thrived on a lot of people coming all that way out in the middle of nowhere and spending their money.

What's around Yosimite (sp?) that would attract people to go there other than the national park? Lock that up, and what's left? I don't know. Tell me.

[ArthurDent]

8. You'll be hard pressed to find them

The meme isn't all that true.

1) It's hard to say how the biggest taxpayers -- the top 50% of income earners -- voted in '04. Yes, many of them live in blue states, but let's face it, a lot of people in all cities voted Bush. Take NYC: Who was more likely to be the Bush voter? The Greenwich Village artist? The Harlem deli owner? The NYU student? Or the Upper East Side attorney? On the other hand, who in the red states is more likely to be charitable -- the Kerry voter (who is more likely to be unemployed or otherwise indigent) or the church-tithing Bush voter?

2) Outside of highways, there spending is mostly to programs that do not, in any real sense, "support" those living in red states. (That is, they are not in the colloquial sense welfare beneficiaries.) Even highway spending is a questionable way to suggest that blue pays for red, but that's a topic for another day. On point: Of the $2b spent in 2003, only about $800m came from income tax. $400m (about 20% overall, 50% of income tax) went to the defense/homeland security. It's hard to say that said money went to the benefit of red states over blue.

[LuminousX]

11. Attorney?

Or the Upper East Side attorney?

You mean "Trial Lawyer" attorney or corporate stooge attorney?

I think I can safely say all categories you listed voted more for Kerry than Bush.

[ArthurDent]

17. I'll look for the image, but

I remember seeing that the Upper East Side was more red than blue in 2000. But for the time being, here's something interesting.

NYC gave $18.4m to Kerry and $7.5m to Bush -- a 2.5:1 ratio. (See http://www.opensecrets.org/ziplookup/display.asp?street=&zip=10028&zip4=&show_metro_stats=TRUE)

But the biggest part of the Upper East Side (Zip 10021) gave $2.1m to Kerry and $1.3m to Bush -- a 1.5:1 ratio. (See http://www.opensecrets.org/ziplookup/display.asp?street=&zip=10021&zip4=&show_top_recips=TRUE)

That's a huge difference, and you're probably right that the UES went mostly for Kerry, it's certainly closer than one would otherwise assume. In any event, the point is that the huge 60% advantage Kerry has over Bush in NYC is not evidence of high-tax-bracket voters voting for Kerry.

[Name removed]

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[ArthurDent]

16. See reply 15

n/t, edited to eliminate redundancy.

[Name removed]

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[ArthurDent]

15. Uh...

I'm not saying that Kerry voters are likely to be unemployed as opposed to employed, or indigent rather than wealthy. I'm saying that those categories (unemployed, poor) are more likely to be Kerry voters than Bush voters.

And isn't that what the most of the debate is about? Take Ohio: their economy is in the crapper, unions have suffered enormous layoffs, etc. Meanwhile, the RNC is called the party of the rich. It is hardly "wild-eyed" to suggest that Kerry voters are more likely to be unemployed or otherwise indigent than a Bush voter -- in fact, that's the whole idea of the liberal-left -- appeal to the underprivileged.

[ret5hd]

9. north dakota...

state run farmer co-ops

laws that prevent mega-agri-business from taking over the states agriculture

state owned silos

i've heard it said that north dakota is the most socialist state in the union.

[IrateCitizen]

12. Farm subsidies, extremely cheap oil and gas leases on fed. lands

Those are two that pop to the top of my head.

Another would be the grazing rights for ranchers (for pennies, really) on Federal lands.

[ArthurDent]

18. Another example contra

Remember, states don't pay taxes to the federal government -- individuals do.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

That's CNN's exit poll results. The most relevant ones are the three "vote by income tables." It seems that those who (likely) pay the most in taxes voted for Bush, at about 55% to 45%. The meme that the blue supports the red is really an empty one -- you're best off letting the LTTE fall to the wayside.

[TXStacy]

19. here's a link

to the referenced source:

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org/cfp/db/generosity.php?year=2004

[NewJeffCT]

21. thanks - found it

The study is flawed & takes into account only itemized charitable deductions.

[RUDUing2]

20. try this link (M

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org/cfp/db/generosity.php?year=2003

[Uzybone]

22. Here is another one

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html