Who Likes Abortion?

[Peter Frank]

The Democratic Party needs to do a far better job of explaining in pragmatic terms why Roe v Wade should remain the law of the land.

In another thread, I devloped some points & questions for an alleged right leaning fence sitter to consider:

1) Only an insane person would actually like abortion.

2) Young women are going to have abortions whether they're legal or not.

3) If your daughter were pregnant and decided to secretly obtain an abortion, would you want her to go to a back alley sleaze ball with a coat-hanger and pen knife?

4) Before Roe v Wade, only wealthier women could afford to find American doctors to do the procedure, or to go out of the country for it. Poorer women died in much greater numbers, while the advantaged just "went out of town" for a while.

5) Republican women get abortions too.

6) Many girls get pregnant from rape and incest (often by their fathers).

7) The decision to go to war in Iraq was a decision responsible for the killing of thousands of peaceful Iraqi citizens. ...Among them are -- babies and pregnant mothers.

I'd ask anyone to consider these things before believing that one side of the aisle has the right to claim moral superiority.

[WindRavenX]

1. oh I love my abortions

Why, I had three this very morning!

[ogradda]

4. roflmao

n/t

[juliagoolia]

2. 4 (b) forced adoption causes long term PTSD

I know a lot of these people that went throught this.

Its not easy giving birth and giving a baby away! It is not easy growing up knowing you were given away either!

I work with both sides of this and am an adoptive mom to boot.

No easy answer folks.

[Gardeaux08]

3. Good start.

And maybe pointing out that if one wants to PREVENT abortion, they need to be informed of BIRTH CONTROL would be a wise position, too.

[ever_green]

13. yes.

this is completely overlooked by right wingers.

[proudbluestater]

5. To the Repukes, it is an issue of CONTROL

It is not an issue of the "babies" at all. It is an issue of who will control my reproductive system. I say me. They say, no, it's some old 75 year old guy in Congress who controls your organs.

If they cared about the fetuses, they would be there in the hospital as they are born, crack-addicted and going through withdrawal, rocking them for comfort. They are not there.

If they cared about the fetuses, they would not be against welfare for feeding and clothing the babies, once born. Again, we are for CORPORATE welfare for big companies, but women, once you have that child, baby, you are ON YOUR OWN.

[Peter Frank]

8. The non-spiritual element of the "religious right" is only Pro-Birth...

...not Pro-Life. The most vocal members of this group get off on the feeling of moral superiority -- w/o responsibility.

Ask a "Pro-Lifer" if he/she wants a free -- crack addicted baby. I think we all can visualize the squirming.

[Jack_DeLeon]

6. I like my abortions medium rare with some Jack Daniels sauce...

[DoNotRefill]

16. you might laugh at this link then....

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=08

Link may be NSFW.

Nothing is sacred to these people. :evilgrin:

[Jack Schitt]

7. Nobody likes abortion.

Unless you're some sicko-nutjob.

[Peter Frank]

9. Point of Awareness...

Scott Peterson was convicted of killing his wife and unborn child. We're all outraged -- rightly so!

Where's the outrage when Bush's arbitrary decision to invade Iraq results in un-tolled numbers of horrible deaths among innocent families with their babies, mothers, and expecting mothers.

The surest way to commit abortion is to kill pregnant family members. I know that Bush wasn't aware of all the contradictory repercussions here, but shouldn't he have been? Where are the vaunted "family values" here?!

I'm not a Democrat, but an Independent who would have voted for McCain for a second term -- if Bush hadn't successfully slimed him in 2000.

[corporatemedia]

10. Q. "who likes abortions?" A. 59.5 million people

[DrGonzoLives]

21. Do they "like" it?

Or do they support a woman's right to choose? And, yes, there is a difference, and we need to start emphasizing that. It is about freedom first and foremost, not some bizarre agenda of wanting to commit infantile genocide like the more rabid right-wingers out there claim.

[barackmyworld]

11. social conditions affect abortion rates

economic prosperity, health care (to get prescription contraceptives), etc. are also important in decreasing the number of abortions

[Peter Frank]

12. The religious right doesn't believe in contraception...

...So more young girls get pregnant; and they want the babies to be born -- yet they don't want a government which shouldn't propose contraception to help these kids get a leg up on life.

Convolution to the max...

Who's responsible for the continuation of neediness in socety?

[ever_green]

14. I think many people do think that Democrats like abortion.

That's one thing I think is important to dispell.
I also think we should emphasize that democrats reduce the number of abortions by supporting birth control and education.

[The Minus World]

15. Abort, Abort.

The Republican party wants to ignore sex education, maintaining that intercourse should remain a taboo until marriage; completely overlooking the reality that, whether or not it conforms to their idea of how the world should be, the world will keep turning and teenagers will keep having sex and incurring unwanted pregnancies.

If girls are denied available contraception; boys, not given ready access to prophylactics, because it would somehow encourage them to have more sex - it would follow that the religious right simply does not want to accept pre-marital sex as a realistic problem to be tackled, but rather a disease to be cured.

That is the first matter of framing the debate: Democrats believe that unwanted pregnancies are an issue to be confronted; Republicans believe that unwanted pregnancies are a disease.

[Peter Frank]

17. Very well said...

And what amuses me is that pro choice Democrats (and some Republicans & Independents) get labeled "unrealistic," while Republicans by and large are ideologically paralyzed and ineffective in dealing with these realities. Denial kills.

[chicagiana]

19. Be a little stealthy ...

Republicans have been successfull in elections because they were told bluntly to make the abortion issue stealth. It was hurting them BIG TIME.

So now they are persuing stealth agendas to overturn Roe vs Wade. We need to counter and be stealthy.

Get the condoms OUT of the school. But fund planned parenthood so they can set up shop NEAR schools and service the same need!!!

Change the sex ed literature so it's spattered with all kinds of warnings that abstinence IS the best way to avoid STDs. You know what ... IT IS!!! At the same time, teach them "marriage skills" instead of sex ed. All the literature should teach kids how to use porphylactics and contraception for "when they're married".

We all know that the kids WILL NOT wait. They NEVER have. They NEVER will!!!!

The affect is THE SAME. We take the high ground on the issue and take the wind out of the conservative sails!!!!

[chicagiana]

18. Third tri-mester abortions ...

They need to pre-emptively get out and declare that 3rd tri-mester abortions will ALWAYS be illegal unless the health of the mother is at stake. They need to PROPOSE legislation banning partial dialation and extraction UNLESS the health of the mother is at stake.

What does all this do, in practical terms ... absoluetly NOTHING!!!! But it is a communication strategy that puts Democrats in the affirmative instead of the negative on "protecting life" ... whatever that means. When Republicans point out that all that legislation does NOTHING, we got em'.

On the parental notification, I'm sorry but I believe the NOW is 100% WRONG. A child is a parents responsibility first. A child would NOT be allowed to get a boob job without parental consent. In some states, you can't even get tatoos and piercings without parental consent.

The parent is responsible for picking up the pieces if things go wrong. They are responsible for putting the girl's psyche back together. You CANNOT hold parents responsible if you take away their authority in such decisions.

There SHOULD be processes that girls can go through to appeal (in secret) for exceptions in the case of rape or incest. In some cases, the girl MAY have to liberate herself and I'm sure that NOW would be right their with the attorney's to work on these girls' behalf.

When we tell parents they don't have authority over their kid's medical decisions, we are slapping them in the face. And they will slap Democrats back in elections!!!

[Dark]

20. Here's my best arguement to keep abortions legal:

If abortions are legal, pro-lifers know where to find the clinics. They can go to the clinics and convince women, NOT force them, but persuade them, to keep their child. It is the women's baby, it is her child, so it shouldn't be that hard to persuade her to keep the child. Any pro-lifer could volunteer and reach out, peacefully and amicably, to women going there and show them that their child is worth keeping. Why? BECAUSE THE PRO-LIFERS CAN FIND THE CLINIC AND THEREFORE FIND THE WOMEN

Now, let's say that it is illegal. The pro-lifers then try to find the women and convince them to go to keep their child. But they can't. They can't find them because there are no clinics, no Planned Parenthood. They cannot find the women who are going to do abortions. Thus, they cannot STOP the abortions. Even if there aren't any doctors, the women can do it themselves with a coat hanger. But they won't tell anyone.

Thus, IT IS BETTER TO HAVE IT LEGAL SO THE PRO-LIFERS CAN FIND THE WOMEN PLANNING TO HAVE AN ABORTION AND CONVINCE THEM NOT TO. IF IT IS ILLEGAL, THEN THEY CANNOT FIND THE WOMEN AND THUS CANNOT STOP THEM.

In other words, YOU CAN SAVE MORE LIVES BY KEEPING ABORTION LEGAL THAN ILLEGAL. At least they could, if the pro-lifers would do something besides sitting out side the clinic and chanting prayers.