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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 02:20 PM
Original message
F--- Bill Clinton. (read on)
Subject: F--- Bill Clinton (read on)
Message:
When I heard Bill Clinton say "Am I the only person in America who likes both John Kerry and George Bush?" The first thing out of my mouth was "Yes. Fuck you, Bill."

This is emblematic of whats wrong with the elites on our side-- sucking up, instead of fighting. Granted, this was the opening of his Library and Dubya was there, but couldn't he have just said "Thank you for coming"? His time has passed.

I refer you all to an entry by at Altercation by the inimitable Charles Pierce:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6488027/#041119

I think it's time for Bill Clinton, and his wife, and all the people who worked for him to shut up for a while. As time has ground on, I begin to realize that his primary accomplishment over his two terms was keeping the real wingnuts at bay -- which is not an inconsiderable one, given the present state of things. But, let us also admit that, on his best day, Clinton was a DLC Democrat and, even as one of those, he never got 55 percent of the popular vote. He signed an overly punitive welfare bill and he was the worst president on the Bill of Rights in my lifetime. He didn't do jack about building the party. And, for all the noise about how Gore didn't use him in 2000, if Clinton had been able to keep his pants zipped for eight years, Gore wouldn't have had to be so ambivalent about it -- and might not have felt compelled to choose the useless Weepin' Joe Lieberman as a running mate.

This is not a time for triangulation, not a time to cut off our own slice of rotten beef and serve it up as chateaubriand. The next four months are crucial because it's the only chance the D's have to keep the ducks from being put in a row. You may recall Contingency Plan A, briefly summarized as:

No.


Time for the DLC to take a train out of town...
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Amen. Fuck Clinton for birthing that whoring abomination.
The DLC strategy has lost the Democratic party major elections in 2000, 2002, and 2004. How long do we have to suffer their bullshit?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not exactly
Guys, this is the ONLY Democrat who managed to get 70 percent of the populatity, actually be elected twice, and survive an impeachment, in the last 20 years. If he ran right now, he would be re-elected.

I don't think his politics are idiocy. It takes more than, "being nice" to fail an election.

Clinton stands for positiveness. Kerry was saying things like "we need to "KILL" the enemy. I voted for him but constantly couldn't believe how politically stupid he was. The man had a monotone speaking problem that should have been cured years ago, not the last 6 months of his presidential campaign. He isn't the brightest politican you know. And yeah, he's a million times better than Dubya. Unfortunately he didn't convice more than a hand full of the majority that.
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. Politically stupid?
How was Kerry going tit-for-tat with Bush on terrorism -- ie. "we need to kill the enemy", as you say -- politically stupid?

Please explain yourself. Also, explain how one would cure a "monotone speaking problem". Is there therapy for that? As the loyal Democrat you obviously are, did you contact the Democratic Party with your concerns?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Never did like the guy.
But, like many, held my nose and voted for him. He and the DLC has done seemingly irreparable harm to the party. Making it little more than a patsy for the Repugs. Because of the endless "compromises", not just the party has moved to the right but the whole country.

We no longer have a liberal/left Democratic party but a moderate/conservative immitation of the repugs all too willing to "work with" the reactionary right.

I voted Green down the ballot this time. Next time I'm starting at the top.
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dissention Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Me, too.
I liked him when he ran in '92, but he quickly soured after that. I had no use for him in Term Deux.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. He didn't REALLY mean that he likes dumbya!
Nor did he REALLY mean that "is" is subjective.

It's all part of a brillient strategery...
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Shit
Does he think that is going to help the Democratic Party? What was the point of that kissing-up statement.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. *YAWN*
As someone said........starting to eat our own........
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Want to shut him up? WIN A FUCKING ELECTION AND MOVE INTO THE WH.
All the people who really hate Bill Clinton, think he's over, whatever, should concentrate less on him and more on winning elections.

Gore won, the SC shut him down.
Kerry won, but who the hell knows what he's doing.
Dean didn't win anything.

SO.....guess who's still hot shit.

Hint: It's not Charles Pierce.
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RevolutionaryActs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. He's a politician! He can't say "I hate the president" I mean come on..
if he did, they would go after him so hard. No one in the public eye like that can say they dislike one or the other, especially if one of them is sitting 6 feet away!
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. again, you can say "thanks"
without saying you like the guy.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. I don't remember anybody demanding he say whether he likes *.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think he's chastizing voters for organizing their thinking around hating
Bush rather than telling other voters what they believe in.

You can bet that Clinton wants to beat Bush. But you can also bet that he knows that you don't beat people by hating them. You beat them by telling voters how you're better than your opponent.

Clinton's teaching you a sublte lesson in winning elections. Pay attention.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Agree
I agree with you. I found it refreshing to listen to him. The man has personal charm. He's likeable. He makes Kerry and Bush look like personality-less shitheads. This remark is part of his personal charm. He is trying to draw a distinction between liking a person and liking their politics.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. "distinction between liking a person and liking their politics"
I hear that Adolf was a pretty charming dude too...
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Who cares what his personality was like? What matters is politics and...
policy. That's what we lost track of as Democrats. We're too distracted by hating people personally.

That's how Nixon won in '72, it's why Goldwater lost in '64, and it probably had something to do with not winning this year.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I couldn't agree more.
Politicians are simply conduits. If they represent my beliefs and my ideas in government well, then I don't care if they're saints or assholes. I never cared whether Kerry was "Handsome" or "Presidential" or "Honorable" or any of that garbage.

But the flip-side of that coin is that the personal ass-kissery is just as senseless as personal hatred. Especially when, unfortunatelly, the electorate doesn't understand the lack of importance of personality as well as you or I do.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Actually, I do care about whether a politician is perceived as having
certain qualities in terms of getting them elected. But in terms of running against them, nobody is going to win an election saying only that a person is dishonorable without the person saying that being perceived as standing for something more.

Bush ran against Kerry saying Kerry was dishonorable, but the thing that Bush put forth as his winning quality was that he was going to keep you safe from terrorists. If Bush didn't argue that second part of the formula, nobody would vote for him. You wouldn't vote for him just because he went around saying Kerry was dishonorable.

So I want my candidate to be perceived as having good personal qualities, but I'm definitely not going to run only on only being against my opponent's bad personal qualities. I'm going to tell the public what I stand for.

Too many democrats these past four years seemed content to only run on Bush's bad personal qualities. We were dopes who got roped. Kerry tried to lead us into being for something, but we didn't follow. We just kept saying we're ABB like that was something to be proud of.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Well...
"Kerry tried to lead us into being for something, but we didn't follow. We just kept saying we're ABB like that was something to be proud of."

I think this problem isn't just political, it is systemic. It stems from the fact that there is no real left-wing party in America -- at least not a left-wing major party. Yes, the right-wingers can rally around Bush in a positive way because he really does represent, at least on paper, what they believe in -- especially the radicalized Republicans of this Neocon era. Kerry is a centrist, Bush is a right winger; what's a left-winger to do?

Give me a left-wing candidate and I'll be more than ABB.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. I thought the Democratic party this year was extremely liberal.
We didn't have a couple of corporate whores running. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Their policies were actually extremely contrary to what the corporations want for America. They seemed to be pretty conscious of what was going on at this historical moment and would have taken us out of the forest if they won.

Part of the reason they weren't perceived as liberal enough is because of the fucking grip the right wing has on the debate in America. There was barely a discussion of policy this year. The ONE time there was, it was about outsourcing jobs and we had it for about one week before the WI primary. That was the golden moment of policy discussion in the entire election cycle, and it was the one moment when people who were listening appreciated that the Democratic party actually cared about the accumulation of economic and political power in the hands of people who work for a living. But not many people on the left appreciated what was being discussed, partly because war talk was occupying 99% of Democratic primary voter's minds (as a residue of the Dean-Clark hoopla), and partly because systemically, discussions of issues were not encouraged by forces much bigger than the democratic party.

Anyway, suffices to say, we are not trying to elect a president of the United Neighborhoods of Cambridge, Ann Arbor and Berkeley. We are electing the president of the United States, and I don't see how having what you call "a real left wing party" would have made things any better. The party we had was eminently capable of winning 50%+1 of the electoral votes while being pretty damned liberal. I don't see how radicalizing it more would have helped get more votes.

And the fact is, you did have the Greens and Nader if you needed something perceived as farther to the left. But did that change things for the better?
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. that's just plain stupid
I never said Bush had personal charm, I said Clinton did. The point is that you say things like that in an effort to refocus the electorate on the policies at issue and not get dragged down into this non-quantifiable shit about who's more likeable or whether someone is evil or not
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I think we misunderstood each other
Because the reason I wrote what I wrote is exactly what you state in this post... We agree.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Then I apologize
I thought your message was ridiculing the concept of saying polite (but empty) niceties about the enemy. If that was not the intent, then I apologize and hope our next messages to each other are not misunderstood.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. You needn't apologize any more than I do.
I wasn't ridiculing the concept, and I definitely agree with you that personality should play as small a part in politics as possible. I feel disdain both for snarling opposition and for fawning support.

But I wasn't happy that Clinton said what he said. The reason for this is that the niceties may be "empty" in your head, and in mine, but a huge chunk of Bush supporters voted for him because of his perceived "likeability", because of his supposed "folksiness", and because he was the guy they could "envision themselves having a beer with".

Since personality is -- unfortunatelly -- a weapon in this battlefield, I think it is foolish to yield space to the enemy on this front. No, I wouldn't have prefered if Clinton had ridiculed Bush and called him a "bumbling idiot" or made fun of him; I would have prefered the personality issue stay in the shadows where it belongs. I would prefer the politics in this country stay confined to policy, not to these soap-opera bullshit issues.

Also, let me add that I dig that you have to balls to be so openly opinionated with such a low post count. Welcome to DU.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Those aren't balls,
They're breasts. :)
I have lots and lots of opinions to inflict on anyone,regardless of message count.
I see you're from NY. I was born in Queens, went to high school in Brooklyn, NYU college, and Columbia Law School. Maybe my NY background is what allows me to freely inflict my opinions on others.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #50
68. In the words of Ali G:
Respect.
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. AP, I agree with you on about everything you post,
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 03:37 PM by Rooktoven
but not this time. Now is not the time to suck up to Bush. It's not about hating, it's about not granting an inch to your opponents. Why concede Dubya is likable? (He's not.)

All this does is give Dubya stature and make the press look down on those who dare to oppose the boy king. This is counter-productive to our cause.

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. They guy's explaining how you win elections. I believe Clinton doesn't...
...like anything Bush is doing. But making it about hating the person guarantees that you're not going to win elections.

Bush thrives on Democrats hating him because it distracts Democrats from talking about their ideas. Bush may try to spin this into support, but it's not our job to let Bush frame this. It's our job to use this opportunity to tell Demorats to start talking about what they believe in and not whom they hate.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. If we spend all our time talking about why bush* is bad
we spend no time talking about why people should vote Dem.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I don't think anybody is suggesting...
...that Clinton should have gone on a Bush-hating tirade. This "I like both Bush and Kerry" statement is just a manifestation of the whole recent "now we must unite" mantra of establishment Democrats. And people who are riled by Clinton's statement -- myself included -- are really riled by that call for "unity" with the Neocons. It isn't just this one sentence. When will these fuckers learn that the Neocons' method of working with the opposition is "it's my way or the highway"???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. This is what the article said:
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 04:39 PM by Goldmund
"I think it's time for Bill Clinton, and his wife, and all the people who worked for him to shut up for a while."

Then later:

"Here's what I'd like to see. The entire Democratic caucus of the House of Representatives simply refuses to go to work as long a Tom DeLay is Majority Leader. Deny a quorum. Get your best parliamentarian and tie the place in knots. Sell the hell out of the fact that the House Republicans just used the rules of the institution as a getaway car. Go to Texas and pose with Ronnie Earle. But, under no circumstance, do anything of substance until the Tiny Little Hammer is deposed. And, above all, do not listen to Bill Clinton who, I swear to God, still believes there are reasonable men among the Republicans."

Where is there a clear statement that called for "Bush-hating tirades"?

All I see is a call for not falling into that manipulative trap of "unity".

Funny how, when the Dems say it, "unity" is interpreted to mean one thing, but when the repukes say it, it means something else. It's obvious that you believe the repukes are more honest than the dems.

Is it really obvious?

Of course it means two different things. "Unity" always means two different things when it is articulated by the opposition party as opposed to the party in power. In this particular case, that is amplified by the fact that the Neocons are extremely opposed to compromise or cooperation, and the current Democrats are extremely spineless. So after the experiences of last four years -- last 10, really, since the Gingrich "revolution" -- of course people are going to jump when the Democrats mouth "unity", since that has been nothing but code for betrayal.

When the Republicans say "unity", they mean "get in line, traitors.".

bush* and the other repukes have made statements almost identical to Clintons.

Sure they have. And then they went back to their offices and implemented their radical agenda, with no regard for any "unity".

When the Democrats call for "unity", they go to their offices and under that umbrella, vote for IWRs and Patriot Acts and such.

And I notice you don't make any reference to the point I made. WHat are you afraid of?

Not only did I make a reference to it, but I based my whole post on it. Your point didn't make any sense, because the original post was in protest of Clinton's statement that he "likes" Bush, not in protest of Clinton's lack of statements to the effect of hating Bush. And that is what my post was about.

As far as "What are you afraid of?" -- I suggest you turn down your prick-o-meter a few notches. It may make for more fruitful discussions.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. To clarify my position, I'm saying that Clinton is leading by example.
By Clinton showing us that political argument shouldn't be founded upon hating your opponent personally, he's setting an example that, if we embrace, will lead Democratic voters toward arguing about what we're for, rather than who we are against.

You have to know so little about Clinton to know that he doesn't believe in very much of anything at all that Bush is doing. So there's no way that Clinton's statement can be interpreted as an endorsement of Bush's policies, even if you don't want to believe it on it's face. Nonetheless, so many people here wanted to interpret it as an implicit (or negligent) endorsement of policy and are mad that Clinton doesn't unproductively and misguidedly hate Bush personally in the same manner all of us (who for the most part have never ever met Bush in person) think we do.

And by the way, isn't that crazy? We all certainly hate the man's policies because they conflict so dramatically with our own political philosophies. But we just ran for two years on hating him personally like he was our neighbor who keeps getting two wheels onto our lawn when he pulls into his driveway. Isn't that absurd? That's how Nixon won in '72, I believe, and how McGovern lost to LBJ in '64. It was too much of hating the guy personally, and not enough of the candidate telling the public what they stood for independent of the other candidate's existence.
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. I dont think we lost because of vitriol directed at Bush
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 10:59 PM by Rooktoven
We lost because of tactical errors (not responding to Swift Boat Liars quickly enough) not having a coherent message on defense, not framin g economic and social injstices in terms of right and wrong, and just not having a clear concise theme in general. I'll go on a limb and say we would have won if Edwards' message was at the forefront.

I don't believe my antipathy for dubya (it certainly motivated my volunteering) hurt the party's effort. Nor did anyone else who held Bush in contempt. There is nothing wrong with that. If something is foul and morally wrong to you, it's ok to oppose it vigorously.

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
72. he didn't have to say he *likes* Bush
-
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. agree with everything except the punitive welfare deal. welfare
needs to be dumped. replace it with 2yr associate degree, and 2yr government job. or something other then what we have.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. cmon
Clinton is on my shit list right now, but he did get some digs in on Bush's reckless foreign policy " you cant bomb or arrest everyine"

It was not the time or place for a stump speech. It was a day about the Office of the President which is bigger than party or any one President.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's called being a uniter, not a divider.
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 03:39 PM by Kurovski
It's diplomacy.

It's also a screw-you to Bush's pretenses.

And when he does kick Republican tookas, it will carry more weight.

Or that's how I see it.

EDIT: Clinton is also unfailingly polite, which I like. the Bushes were guests at a party.

And Clinton knew the answer to his question would be, as it was on The Daily Show, " yes." you are the only one.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Amen to that
So many of us are running on nervous tension and unrelieved hatred right now. Clinton's skills as a "people person" and a political tactician are second to none. He's probably the most skilled political operator since Robert Taft (who was a proto-RW).

Clinton acts nice to the Bushes. How the hell are the wingers going to fault him for that -- without looking like blithering idiots?

Clinton is by no means perfect, but a lot of what is ticking people off around here is the Big Dog's strengths. We ought to learn from that.

--bkl
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. Clinton fills me with utter ambivalence --
-- one one hand, when he is speaking philosophically about politics, he is brilliant and insightful. But when it comes right down to his practical policy positions and stances, I find that I strongly disagree with his centrists and sometimes almost right leaning positions much of the time. :(

I think he is a brilliant man, but I don't agree with much of his political stances. I would not want him to be president again. We can do better.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. I didn't like it either, but judge by what he did.
America was better. And the repuslive republicans were livid. They couldn't tolerate the lack of bullshit, and killing, and hypocracy.

Judge by what the end result is. And we all know what it was.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:02 PM
Original message
Well goodness, I guess,
the ones that are being critical of the Big Dawg today must not have got pass that comment liking both Kerry and Bush. Damn, why not read a lil further on in the speech and see that he said, "you cannot kill all your enemies", etc etc,. This was critical of Bush and gave Bush some guidance in trying to work out a peace in the Middle East.And the best example of hate that some of you seem to now have towards Clinton. I think you better read what he said about learning from Nelson Mandela. Clinton asked Mandela how he was able to not hate those that kept him locked up all those years? Mandela replied, "As I was walking towards the gate I knew that if I carried this hate out those gates they would still have me" and Clinton said then, Mandela turned to him and grabed his arm and said "this is what you must do to those that persecuted you". Good advice. Now why is it that some on the left now have a strong dislike for Clinton? Hell, you mean that you cannot like someone even though you disagree with their politics.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. I listened to Clinton at the library. He was very diplomatic, but he got
some points across. He even said the "G" word.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. I love Clinton.
He made me proud of my country then, and proud now.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
26. I just thought it meant that he didn't like John Kerry any more than he
did Bush :eyes:
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digno dave Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
77. Well said. Kerry's a boob.
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vfranks Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. No way
He should not have put it that way. I agree.
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Hawkeye Pierce Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. Come on now
we all know Bill Clinton is a very charming person he was only being diplomatic It was his day let the man enjoy it earned it.
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. Claptrap.
Proud to take Clinton as an ally no matter what he says. Ignore him at your peril and the peril of your party, whichever one it may be cuz it sure don't sound like a Demicrat.

He's a diplomat, a peacemaker and a brilliant politician, not to mention the last one of "us" to win two terms in a row. You want him and his wife to "shut up for a while"? How about you shut up for a while instead?
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secedeeconomically Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
37. I agree to a certen extend
Billy Boy has made some very poor decisions in his life. The choices of his mistresses (Monica for one) and who he associates with (the Grand Hack Zell Miller) being two of the biggest But I believe his biggest mistake, was to out republican republicans. The reason Democrats are loosing is because they stand for nothing. We can all agree that republicans suck, but they have been able to articulate a coherent platform to their base for many years. And all Democrats can do is bitch and whine on how Republicans aren’t fair. The Democratic Party better start growing a pair and start developing a core set of beliefs that we all can rally behind and fight for. Democrats need to stand for something not just take the opposite view of the party in power.
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. Good post. I was always ambivalent about Clinton.
I wasn't quite awake yet when he was elected, but as time dragged on, it became apparent that he was a competent politician and a smooth operator with a hankering for a little bit o strange now and then.

The whole Monica episode just blew it for me. Private lives or not, it was a stupid choice and he was a stupid man for making it. The country didn't deserve the torture it went through becaue of him, and he has never redeemed himself. He is as bad as every single one of his accusers.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Don't go there girl
Clinton was harrassed every single day he served. He did not put the country through this torture. Ken Starr, the Neo-cons and the media did this. They made a big ado over very little. He is NOT near as bad as ANY of his accusers.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. " a smooth operator with a hankering for a little bit o strange "
That didn't sound too republican
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
65. I have mostly given him a pass on the Monica thing
It was a stupid and irresponsible move, but at least his fib didn't get anyone killed, like the infamous lies Bush told about Iraq.

Hell, for all the great things Clinton did for this country, I would have probably blown him. And I'm straight!
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
75. "The whole Monica episode just blew it for me."
:evilgrin:
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. I don't begrudge any person oral sex from anyone--
but it would have been nice if he could have waited until it wouldn't be held against him.

"Monica sweety, give me your number and I'll call you on Nov 3, 2000..."
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. Clinton-Gore Administration Accomplishments: 1993 - 2000- Memories
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/summary.html

Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

Moving From Record Deficits to Record Surplus. In 1992, the deficit was $290 billion, a record dollar high. In 2000, we have a projected budget surplus of $167 billion -- the largest dollar surplus on record (even after adjusting for inflation) and the largest as a share of our economy since 1951. This is the first time we have had three surpluses in a row in more than a half century.

Paying Off the National Debt. We are on track to pay down $297 billion of debt over three years. In 1998 and 1999, we paid down $140 billion in debt. This year, we are on track to pay down $157 billion of debt – bringing the three-year total to $297 billion. Public debt is $2.4 trillion lower in 2000 than was projected in 1993. Debt reduction brings real benefits for the American people -- a family with a home mortgage of $100,000 might expect to save roughly $2,000 per year in mortgage payments. Reduced debt also means lower interest rates and reduced payments on car loans and student loans. With the President's plan, we are now on track to eliminate the nation's publicly held debt by 2013.

Over 21 Million New Jobs. 21.2 million new jobs have been created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs have been created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, the economy has added an average of 248,000 jobs per month, the highest under any President. This compares to 52,000 per month under President Bush and 167,000 per month under President Reagan.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment Is Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades. Unemployment is down from 7.5 percent in 1992 to 4.1 percent in March 2000 -- nearly the lowest unemployment rate in thirty years. The unemployment rate has fallen for seven years in a row, and has remained below 5 percent for 33 months in a row. African-American unemployment has fallen from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in March 2000 -- the lowest rate on record. The unemployment rate for Hispanics has fallen from 11.6 percent in 1992 to 6.3 percent in March 2000 -- and in the last year has been at the lowest rate on record. For women the unemployment rate was 4.3 percent in March -- nearly the lowest since 1953.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History. In 1999, the homeownership rate was 66.8 percent -- the highest ever recorded. Minority homeownership rates were also the highest ever recorded.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent – and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Families and Communities: Strengthening America’s Working Families

Tax Cuts for Working Families. 15 million additional working families received additional tax relief because of the President’s expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit. In 1998, the EITC lifted 4.3 million people out of poverty – double the number lifted out of poverty by the EITC in 1993. This year, the President proposed expanding the EITC to provide tax relief to an additional 6.8 million hard-pressed working families.

Helping Parents Balance Work and Family. The Family and Medical Leave Act allows workers to take up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave to care for seriously ill family members, new born or adoptive children, or their own serious health problems without fear of losing their jobs. Nearly 91 million workers (71% of the labor force) are covered by the Family and Medical Leave Act and millions of workers have benefited from FMLA since its enactment. President Clinton has proposed expanding FMLA to allow workers to take up to 24 unpaid hours off each year for school and early childhood education activities, routine family medical care, and caring for an elderly relative.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs. Under the Clinton-Gore Administration, federal funding for child care has more than doubled, helping parents pay for the care of about 1.5 million children in 1998, and the1996 welfare reform law increased child care funding by $4 billion over six years to provide child care assistance to families moving from welfare to work. Since 1993, the Clinton-Gore Administration has increased funding for the Head Start program by 90 percent, and in FY 2000, the program will serve approximately 880,000 children – over 160,000 more children than in 1993.

Increased the Minimum Wage. The minimum wage has risen from $4.25 to $5.15 per hour, increasing wages for 10 million workers. The President and Vice President have called for an additional increase to $6.15.

Enacted the Workforce Investment Act. The Workforce Investment Act reformed the nation’s employment and training system so that it works better for today's workers. The WIA empowered individuals by giving adults more control and choice over their training or retraining and providing universal access to core labor market services; streamlined job training services by consolidating a tangle of individual programs into a simple system and creating a nationwide network of One-Stop Career Centers; enhanced accountability through tough performance standards for states, localities, and training providers; and increased flexibility so that states can innovate and experiment with new ways to train America's workers better.

Signed the Landmark Work Incentives Improvement Act. Americans with disabilities often become ineligible for Medicaid or Medicare if they work, forcing a choice between health care and employment. The Work Incentives Improvement Act keeps people with disabilities from losing their Medicare or Medicaid health coverage when they go to work. It also includes a $250 million demonstration, which the President insisted on fully funding, that allows people with disabilities who are still working and are not yet sufficiently disabled to qualify for Medicaid to buy into the program.

Signed the Adoption and Safe Families Act. The Adoption and Safe Families Act, which was based in large part on the recommendations of the Clinton-Gore Administration's Adoption 2002 report, made sweeping changes in adoption law so that thousands of children in foster care move more quickly into safe and permanent homes. In 1998, 36,000 children in foster care were adopted, up from 28,000 in 1996. This is the first significant increase in adoption since the national foster care program was established nearly 20 years ago.

Enacted the Foster Care Independence Act. Nearly 20,000 young people leave foster care each year when they reach age 18 without an adoptive family or other guardian. The Foster Care Independence Act will ensure that those young people will get the tools they need to make the most of their lives by providing them better educational opportunities, access to health care, training, housing assistance, counseling, and other services.

Putting Families First. The President and Vice President developed and implemented first-ever plan to protect our children from tobacco and end tobacco marketing targeted to young people. They also required the installation of V-chips in all new televisions, and encouraged schools to adopt school uniform policies to deter school violence and promote discipline.

Supporting Community Service. In just five years, AmeriCorps has allowed 150,000 young people to serve in their communities while earning money for college or skills training.

President's One America Initiative. President Clinton has led the nation in an effort to become One America: a place where we respect others’ differences and embrace the common values that unite us. The President has been actively involved in public outreach efforts to engage Americans in this historic effort, and followed up on the work of the Initiative on Race by appointing Robert B. (Ben) Johnson as Assistant to the President and Director of the new White House Office on the President’s Initiative for One America. The office is working to ensure that we have a coordinated strategy to close the opportunity gaps that exist for minorities and the underserved in this country, and build the One America we want for all of our nation’s children. The President’s FY 2001 budget includes $5 million for One America dialogues to promote and facilitate discussions on racial diversity and understanding. President Clinton has appointed the most diverse Cabinet and White House staff in history, presiding over an Administration that looks like America. Welcoming New Americans. Since 1993, the United States has welcomed 4.4 million new American citizens. Faced with this unprecedented number of applications, the Administration undertook an initiative that has significantly reduced the backlog of citizenship applications and is restoring timely processing. Furthermore, the Administration’s English as a Second Language/Civics Education Initiative will provide limited English speaking adults with instruction in both English literacy and critical life skills necessary for effective citizenship and civic participation.

Providing Fairness for Legal Immigrants. The President believes that legal immigrants should have the same economic opportunity and bear the same responsibility as other members of society. In 1997 and 1998, the President fought for and succeeded in restoring disability, health and nutritional benefits for certain legal immigrants, and he will continue to press for additional restorations.

Education: Largest Investment in Education in 30 Years

Opening the Doors of College to All Americans. In 1997, President Clinton proposed and passed the HOPE Scholarships and Lifetime Learning tax credits to provide tax relief to nearly 13 million Americans each year who are struggling to pay for college. The Hope Scholarship helps make the first two years of college universally available to about 5.6 million students annually by providing a tax credit of up to $1,500 for tuition and fees for the first two years of college. The Lifetime Learning tax credit provides a 20 percent tax credit on the first $5,000 of tuition and fees for students beyond the first two years of college, or those taking classes part-time (in 2003, this increases to $10,000 of tuition and fees). In his FY01 budget, the President has proposed to expand the Lifetime Learning tax credit with a 10-year, $30 billion College Opportunity tax cut, which will give families the option of taking a tax deduction or claiming a 28 percent credit for the first $5,000 of college tuition and fees until 2002, and $10,000 thereafter.

Expanding Work Study and Pell Grants. One million students will be able to work their way through college because of the President's expansion of the Work Study Program, and nearly four million students will receive a Pell Grant of up to $3,300, the largest maximum award ever. The maximum award has increased 43 percent under the Clinton-Gore Administration. This year President Clinton proposed a $77 million increase in Work Study to continue to support one million awards, and a $200 increase in the Pell Grant maximum award, to raise it to $3,500.

Making College More Affordable. The Clinton-Gore Administration has cut student fees and interest rates on all loans, expanded repayment options including income contingent repayment, and improved service through the Direct Loan Program. Students have saved $8.7 billion since 1993 through the reduction in loan fees and interest rates.

More High-Quality Teachers with Smaller Class Sizes. The Clinton-Gore Administration won a second installment of $1.3 billion for the President’s plan to hire an additional 100,000 well-prepared teachers to reduce class size in the early grades, when children learn to read and master the basic skills. Already, 29,000 teachers have been hired through this initiative. This year's budget provides $1.75 billion, a $450 million increase -- enough to fund nearly 49,000 teachers.

Turning Around Failing Schools. 11 million low-income students in 13,000 school districts now benefit from higher expectations and a challenging curriculum geared to higher standards through Title I-Aid to Disadvantaged Students. The FY 2000 budget provides a $134 million accountability fund to help turn around the worst performing schools and hold them accountable for results through such measures as overhauling curriculum, improving staffing, or even closing schools and reopening them as charter schools. This year, the President is proposing to double funding for this fund to turn around the nation's failing schools to ensure all children receive a quality education.
Providing Safe After-School Opportunities for 850,000 Students Each Year. The 21st Century Community Learning Centers program will provide enriching after-school and summer school opportunities for 850,000 school-age children in rural and urban communities in FY 2000. Extended learning time has not only been shown to increase achievement in reading and math, but to decrease youth violence and drug use. Funding for this program more than doubled from FY 1999 to FY 2000. For FY 2001, the President's budget calls on Congress to invest $1 billion in the 21st Century Program and to ensure that all children in failing schools have access to quality after-school and summer school opportunities. This proposal will double funding and triple the number of students served to 2.5 million.

Expanding Choice and Accountability in Public Schools. The Clinton-Gore Administration has worked to expand public school choice and support the growth of public charter schools, which have increased from one public charter school in the nation when the President was first elected to more than 1,700. More than 250,000 students nationwide are now enrolled in charter schools in 30 states and the District of Columbia. The President won $145 million in FY 2000 -- and has proposed $175 million in his FY 2001 budget -- to continue working toward his goal of establishing 3,000 quality charter schools by 2002.

Teaching Every Child to Read by the 3rd Grade. The President challenged Americans to unite to be sure that every child can read well and independently by the third grade -- 1,400 colleges and universities took up his challenge, and 26,700 college work-study students now serve as reading tutors to help every child to read well and independently by the third grade.

Expanding Access to Technology. With the Vice President's leadership, the Clinton-Gore Administration has made increasing access to technology a top priority. The President and Vice President created the Technology Literacy Challenge Fund to help connect every school to the Internet, increase the number of multimedia computers in the classroom and provide technology training for teachers. They increased overall investments in educational technology from $23 million in 1993 to $769 million in FY 2000, and tripled funding for Community Technology Centers to reach at least 120 low-income communities. Through the E-rate program, they secured low-cost connections to the Internet for schools, libraries, rural health clinics and hospitals, benefiting more than 80 percent of America's public schools. They also increased investment in education research to ensure all children benefit from educational technology. In 1999, 95 percent of public schools were connected to the Internet -- up from just 35 percent in 1994.

Supporting Local Education Reform Efforts. The President signed the Education Flexibility Partnership Act of 1999 (Ed-Flex) into law in April 1999, giving all states greater flexibility in the use of federal education funds in exchange for greater accountability for helping all students reach high academic standards.

Establishing the GEAR-UP Mentoring Program for Middle School Children. President Clinton and Vice President Gore created and expanded GEAR-UP, a nationwide mentoring initiative, to help over 750,000 low-income middle school children finish school and prepare for college. The President's FY 2001 budget would expand services to 1.4 million students.

Providing Early Education to Nearly 900,000 Children with Head Start. The President and Vice President have expanded Head Start funding by 90 percent since 1993. Head Start will reach approximately 880,000 low-income children in FY 2000 and, with the President's proposed increase for the program, will be on the way to reaching the President's goal of serving 1 million children and their families by the year 2002. The Administration also created Early Head Start, bringing Head Start's successful comprehensive services to families with children ages zero to three, and set high quality standards for both programs.

Crime and Drugs: Lowest Crime Rates in 25 Years

Lowest Overall Crime Rate in 25 Years. Under the Clinton-Gore Administration, America has experienced the longest continuous drop in crime on record. Violent crime rate fell 7 percent in 1998 and 27 percent since 1993. The murder rate is down more than 25 percent since 1993, its lowest point since 1967. The overall crime rate is the lowest in 25 years.

Putting 100,000 More Police on the Streets. In 1999, ahead of schedule and under budget, the Clinton-Gore Administration met its commitment to fund an additional 100,000 police officers for our communities. As a part of the COPS Program, the President announced new grants to increase community policing in high-crime and underserved neighborhoods. To help keep crime at record lows, the President won funding for the first installment toward his goal to hire up to 50,000 more officers by 2005. This year, the Clinton-Gore budget includes over $1 billion to continue the successful COPS initiative to hire more officers, hire new community prosecutors, give police the tools they need to fight crime, and to fund community-wide crime fighting efforts.

More Than Half a Million Felons, Fugitives and Domestic Abusers Denied Guns. Since the President signed the Brady Bill into law, more than 500,000 felons, fugitives and domestic abusers have been prevented from purchasing guns. And the historic 1994 Crime Bill banned 19 of the deadliest assault weapons and their copies, keeping assault weapons off our streets. The homicide rate dropped 7 percent in 1998 – almost entirely due to a decrease in homicides committed with guns. Since 1993, there has been a more than 35 percent drop in gun-related crime and a 57 percent decrease in juvenile gun homicide offenders.

Giving Police the Tools They Need to Fight Crime. President Clinton won $230 million in FY 2000 to provide law enforcement with the latest crime-fighting and crime-solving technology. This funding will help make crime mapping technology -- which enables police agencies to track crime hot spots and target their resources to where they are most needed -- more widely available, to improve compatibility among law enforcement communications systems, and aid development and expansion of innovative tools to help law enforcement fight crime.

Developed Comprehensive Anti-Drug Strategy Including a $195 Million National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign. The President appointed Barry McCaffrey, a four-star general, to lead the Clinton-Gore Administration's anti-drug strategy as the nation’s Drug Czar. Illicit drug use among young people age 12-17 declined from 1997 to 1998, and the average age of first-time use went up. Overall drug use is down since its peak in the 1970's, drug-related murders have fallen by 40 percent since 1992, and youth drug use is on the decline for the third straight year.

National Campaign Against Youth Violence. In August 1999, President Clinton announced the formation of an independent, national campaign to address the problem of youth violence. The Campaign plans to launch anti-violence activities including a major media campaign, concerts, town hall meetings, in- and after-school programs. The Campaign will also highlight effective youth violence initiatives in cities across the country.

Fighting Hate Crimes. The President enacted the Hate Crimes Sentencing Enhancement Act in 1994. He held the historic White House Conference on Hate Crimes, where he called for passage of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act -- bipartisan legislation which would strengthen hate crimes laws and make it clear that America will not tolerate acts of violence based on race, color, gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or disability.

Protecting Children from Sex Offenders. President Clinton signed Megan’s Law and the Jacob Wetterling Crimes Against Children and Sexually Violent Offender Registration Act, requiring states to set up sex offender registration systems and require community notification when sex offenders are released from prison.

Welfare Reform and Community Empowerment: Moving Millions of Americans from Welfare to Work

Lowest Number of People on Welfare Since 1969 as More Recipients Go to Work. President Clinton has kept his promise to reform the welfare system and move more Americans from welfare to work. The number of Americans on welfare is at its lowest level since 1969 as record numbers of people move from welfare to work. Since January 1993, the welfare rolls have fallen by more than half, from 14.1 million to 6.9 million. More than 1.3 million welfare recipients went to work in 1998 alone, and the percentage of adults still on welfare who were working reached 27 percent in 1998, compared to just 7 percent in 1992 -- nearly a fourfold increase. Through the Welfare to Work Partnership launched by the President, 12,000 businesses have hired 650,000 former welfare recipients since 1997.

Creating New Tools to Help Families Move from Welfare to Work. The 1997 Balanced Budget Act signed by President Clinton included $3 billion to move long-term welfare recipients and low-income non-custodial fathers into jobs. The President’s Access to Jobs initiative helps communities design innovative transportation solutions, such as van services, to help former welfare recipients and other low-income workers get to work. President Clinton has secured 110,000 new housing vouchers in the last two years to help welfare recipients and hard-pressed working families move closer to job opportunities, and this year he is proposing $690 million for 120,000 new housing vouchers. And the Welfare-to-Work Tax Credit provides tax incentives to encourage businesses to hire long-term welfare recipients.

Nearly Doubled Child Support Collections. President Clinton signed into law the toughest child support crackdown in history. Federal and state child support programs broke new records in 1999, collecting $15.5 billion -- nearly double the amount collected in 1992. The number of paternities established rose to nearly 1.5 million in 1998 – more than triple the number from 516,000 in 1992. The number of child support cases with collections rose 59 percent, from 2.8 million 1992 to 4.5 million in 1998.

Breaking the Cycle of Dependency. The teen birth rate has fallen seven years in a row, by 18 percent from 1991 to 1998. The teen pregnancy rate is now the lowest rate on record.

Child Abuse Declines for Five Years in a Row. In a trend which began five years ago, the number of children abused and neglected has decreased approximately 11 percent from a record 1,018,692 in 1993. While this represents progress, President Clinton and Vice President Gore continue to work to protect the health and well-being of America's children, and ending child abuse.

Expanded Investment in Urban and Rural Areas. The Clinton-Gore Administration created 31 rural and urban Empowerment Zones and more than 100 Enterprise Communities that have created new jobs, new opportunities and stronger communities.

Encouraging Investment in Underserved Communities with the New Markets Initiative. President Clinton's New Markets Initiative is helping to bring economic development and renewal to communities that have not benefited from the soaring economy. The President's New Markets Tour of underserved communities generated nearly $1 billion in private sector investment commitments. On his second New Markets trip, the President highlighted the role that universities, professional sports franchises, and agricultural cooperatives can play in bringing jobs and economic development to underserved communities. During the trip the President announced partnerships worth a total of nearly $200 million of dollars to underserved communities.

Providing Incentives to Save. President Clinton signed legislation creating Individual Development Accounts, providing incentives for low-income families to save for a first home, higher education, or to start a new business, a key part of his 1992 community empowerment agenda. In FY 1999, $10 million was awarded to establish savings accounts for over 10,000 low-income workers in 40 communities, and an additional $10 million will be awarded in FY 2000. The President’s budget provides $25 million for IDAs in FY 2001 and proposes to allow low-income working families to use IDAs to save for a car that will allow them to get or keep a job.

Health Care: Increasing Access and Improving the Nation's Health

Enacted Most Comprehensive Medicare Reforms in History. In the 1997 Balanced Budget, the Clinton-Gore Administration protected, modernized and extended the life of the Medicare Trust Fund while offering new options for patient choice and preventive care. New preventive benefits passed include coverage of annual mammograms, coverage of screening tests for both colorectal and cervical cancer, and a diabetes self-management benefit. The President proposed a plan to reform and modernize Medicare’s benefits, including an optional prescription drug benefit that is affordable and available to all beneficiaries. The President has also proposed a reserve fund to help Medicare beneficiaries with extremely high prescription drug costs.

Extending the Life of the Medicare Trust Fund. When President Clinton and Vice President Gore took office, Medicare was expected to run out of money in 1999. Now, the life of the Trust Fund has been extended until 2023. Medicare is now in the soundest shape it has been since 1975.

Enacted Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965. The five year, $24 billion State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) will provide health care coverage for up to five million children. Two million children have already been enrolled, and in October 1999 President Clinton announced new outreach initiatives to enroll millions more uninsured, eligible children. Last year, the President launched a nationwide “Insure Kids Now” campaign that will bring together major TV and radio networks, healthcare organizations, religious groups and other community-based organizations to help enroll more children in the Children's Health Insurance Program, with the goal of enrolling 5 million of the estimated 10 million children eligible for health insurance under CHIP within 5 years. This year, the budget includes several of Vice President Gore's proposals to accelerate enrollment of children in CHIP. The President is also proposing a new FamilyCare program, which would give States the option to cover parents in the same plan as their children.

Passed Meaningful Health Insurance Reform. The President signed into law the Kennedy-Kassebaum Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, which helps individuals keep health insurance when they change jobs, guarantees renewability of coverage, and ensures access to health insurance for small businesses. As many as 25 million people will benefit from this law. The bill also eliminated the discriminatory tax treatment the of the approximately 10 million Americans who are self-employed; strengthened efforts to combat health care fraud, waste and abuse by creating a stable source of funding; and provided consumer protections and tax incentives for private long-term care insurance.

Enacted Historic Comprehensive FDA Reform that Expedited the Review and Approval of New Drug Products. The President signed into law the 1997 FDA Modernization Act that includes important measures to modernize and streamline the regulation of biological products; increase patient access to experimental drugs and medical devices; and accelerate review of important new medications. This reform builds on the administrative initiatives implemented under the Vice President’s reinventing government effort which have led U.S. drug approvals to be as fast or faster than any other industrialized nation. Average drug approval times have dropped since the beginning of the Administration from almost three years to just over one year.

Signed Mental Health Parity Provisions into Law. To help eliminate discrimination against individuals with mental illnesses, the President signed into law mental health parity provisions to prohibit health plans from establishing separate lifetime and annual limits for mental health coverage. In 1999, the White House held the landmark, first-ever Conference on Mental Health and released the Surgeon General’s first Report on Mental Health. This year, the President's budget includes an investment of $100 million for mental health services, an increase of 16 percent over last year’s funding level and a 90 percent increase since 1993.

Signed Legislation to End Drive-Through Deliveries. President Clinton signed into law common sense legislation that requires health plans to allow new mothers to remain in the hospital for at least 48 hours following most normal deliveries and 96 hours after a Cesarean section.

Extended Strong, Enforceable Patient Protections for Millions of Americans. Leading by example, the President directed all federal agencies to ensure that their employees and beneficiaries have the benefits and rights guaranteed under the proposed Patients’ Bill of Rights. 85 million Americans covered by federal health plans have the security of knowing they will have fair access to health care thanks to the President's work. The President and Vice President have called for passage of the bipartisan Patients Bill of Rights Act, to ensure that all Americans have essential protections, such as guaranteed access to needed health care specialists; access to emergency room services when and where the need arises; continuity of care protections to assure patient care if a patient’s health care provider is dropped; access to a timely internal and independent external appeals process with a medical necessity standard; assurance that doctors and patients can openly discuss treatment options; and an enforcement mechanism that ensures recourse for patients who have been harmed as a result of health plan actions.

Fighting Medicare Fraud and Waste. Since 1993, the Clinton-Gore Administration has assigned more federal prosecutors and FBI agents to fight health care fraud than ever before. As a result, convictions have gone up a full 410 percent, saving more than $50 billion in health care claims. The Balanced Budget Act gave an array of new weapons in our fight to keep scam artists and fly-by-night health care out of Medicare and Medicaid.

Released Strong New Protections for the Privacy of Electronic Medical Records. The Clinton-Gore Administration released a new regulation to protect the privacy of electronic medical records held by health plans, health care clearinghouses, and health care providers. This rule would limit the use and release of private health information without consent; restrict the disclosure of protected health information to the minimum amount of information necessary; establish new requirements for disclosure of information to researchers and others seeking access to health records; and establish new administrative and criminal sanctions for the improper use or disclosure of private information.

Implementing Comprehensive Nursing Home Quality Initiative. The Clinton-Gore Administration has issued the toughest nursing home regulations in the history of the Medicare and Medicaid programs, including increased monitoring of nursing homes to ensure that they are in compliance; requiring states to crack down on nursing homes that repeatedly violate health and safety requirements; and changing the inspection process to increase the focus on preventing bedsores, malnutrition and resident abuse. Won $43.5 million increase in FY 2000 to fund more rigorous inspections of nursing facilities and improved federal oversight and enforcement of nursing home quality.

Ensuring Safe Food for America’s Families. President Clinton created the President’s Council on Food Safety to develop a comprehensive food safety strategic plan for federal agencies. The Clinton-Gore Administration has implemented a new science-based inspection system -- Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points -- and reduced the prevalence of salmonella in raw meat and poultry by as much as 50 percent. The Administration formed national computer network of public health laboratories, called PulseNet, to help rapidly identify and stop outbreaks of foodborne illness by performing DNA "fingerprinting" on foodborne pathogens. The President signed the Food Quality Protection Act, which included special safeguards for kids and strengthened laws governing pesticides and food safety. The Administration also issued new rules to prevent foodborne illness caused by pathogens such as E. coli.

Raised Child Immunization Rates to All Time High. Childhood immunization coverage rates in 1998 were the highest ever recorded. 90 percent of toddlers in 1996, 1997 and 1998 received the most critical doses of each of the routinely recommended vaccines, surpassing the President’s 1993 goal. Because childhood vaccination levels in the United States are at an all-time high, disease and death from diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella and Hib are at or near record lows. There was only one reported case of diphtheria, 100 reported cases of measles, and no reported cases of wild poliovirus for 1998.

Issued Regulation that Drug Companies Provide Adequate Testing for Children. President Clinton directed an important Food and Drug Administration regulation requiring manufacturers to do studies on pediatric populations for new prescription drugs -- and those currently on the market -- to ensure that prescription drugs have been adequately tested for the unique needs of children.

New Efforts to Help Consumers Understand Important Information on Over the Counter Drug Labels. The President unveiled a historic new FDA regulation that, for the first time, requires over-the-counter drug products to use a new product label with larger print and clearer language, making it easier for consumers to understand product warnings and comply with dosage guidance. The new regulation provides Americans with essential information about their medications in a user friendly way and takes a critical first step towards preventing the tens of thousands of unnecessary hospitalizations caused by misuse of over-the-counter medications each year.

Promoting Reproductive Health. The Clinton-Gore Administration has taken strong steps to protect a woman’s right to choose and to promote safe reproductive health services for women. The President has provided contraceptive coverage to more than a million women covered by federal health plans; provided family planning services to low income women through the Medicaid program; stood up against attempts to prohibit the FDA from approving RU-486; and continues to fight restrictions on international family planning.

Environment: Growing the Economy And Improving the Environment

Preserving Our National Treasures. The Clinton-Gore Administration has protected tens of millions of acres, from the red rock canyons of Utah to the Florida Everglades. The Administration reached agreements to protect Yellowstone from mining and save the ancient redwoods of California’s Headwaters Forest. In the FY 2000 budget, the President and Vice President won $651 million (a 42 percent increase) for Lands Legacy, a historic initiative to strengthen federal efforts to preserve national treasures and provides communities with new resources to protect local green spaces. This year, the President's budget includes a record $1.4 billion for Lands Legacy -- a 93 percent increase and the largest one-year investment ever requested for conserving America’s lands.

Created Four New National Monuments. The Clinton-Gore Administration has created four new national monuments: Grand Staircase-Escalante, protecting spectacular red rock canyonlands in Utah; Grand Canyon-Parashant, protecting deep canyons, mountains and buttes on the north rim of the Grand Canyon; Agua Fria, protecting extensive prehistoric ruins in Arizona; the California Coastal monument, protecting thousands of islands, rocks and reefs along the California coast. The Administration also expanded Pinnacles National Monument in California to better protect the area's unusual rock formations.

Preserving Our National Forests. The President directed the National Forest Service to develop and propose regulations to provide long-term protection for 40 million acres of “roadless” areas within national forests and ensure that future generations will be able to enjoy the pristine wilderness. The proposed regulations would ban road building in these areas and could also prohibit logging or other activities that harm their unique ecological value.

Accelerating Toxic Cleanups and Brownfields Redevelopment. The Clinton-Gore Administration has completed clean up at 525 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as completed in the previous twelve years. Clean up of more than 91 percent of all sites is either completed or in progress. The Administration has leveraged nearly $1 billion in private sector investment for brownfields redevelopment.

Keeping Our Drinking Water Safe. The President proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act to ensure that our families have healthy, clean tap water. The Clinton-Gore Administration has required America’s 55,000 water utilities to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water. The Administration also proposed new rule to reduce dirty runoff and strengthen protections for 20,000 rivers, lakes and other waterways too polluted for swimming and fishing. Ninety-one percent of America’s tap water from community drinking water systems now meets all federal standards.

Clearing the Air of Unhealthy Pollution. The President and Vice President have adopted the toughest standards ever on soot and smog. They proposed significant reductions in tailpipe emissions from cars, light trucks and SUVs, and launched long-term effort to restore pristine skies over our national parks and wilderness areas. Since 1993, the number of Americans living in communities that meet federal air quality standards has grown by 43 million.

Reducing the Threat of Global Warming. The Clinton-Gore Administration negotiated an international treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in an environmentally strong and economically sound way. The President and Vice President secured $1.1 billion in FY 2000 for research and development of energy efficiency and clean energy technologies, and set a goal of tripling U.S. use of bio-energy and bio-products by 2010. The President issued an Executive Order directing agencies to dramatically improve energy efficiency in federal buildings, saving taxpayers over $750 million a year when fully implemented.

Science and Technology: A Strong Research and Development Agenda

Unprecedented Investment in Biomedical Research. Two years ago, the President called for an increase of almost 50 percent over 5 years in the National Institutes of Health (NIH) budget as part of his Research for America Fund. Since that time, the NIH budget has increased by over $4.3 billion and with the funding proposed by the President this year, the Administration will be one year ahead of schedule in reaching the 50 percent goal. As a result, NIH now supports the highest levels of research ever on nearly all types of disease and health conditions, making new breakthroughs possible in vaccine development and use, the treatment of chronic disease, and prevention and treatment of diseases such as diabetes, osteoporosis, heart disease, cancer, and neurological diseases like Alzheimers and Parkinsons.

Supporting University Research, Training the Next Generation of Scientists and Engineers. The FY00 budget contained a 6.6 percent increase in the National Science Foundation research budget to support science and engineering research across all fields and disciplines. This includes $126 million for the Administration's "Information Technology for the 21st Century" initiative.

Ensuring U.S. Leadership in Space Science and Exploration. The Clinton-Gore Administration won increased investment of $13.65 billion for NASA in FY 2000. This investment offers the potential of new scientific breakthroughs through an aggressive robotic series of exploration missions into the solar system, as well as enhancing our ability to monitor important changes in the earth's climate systems, and strengthening aviation safety for the traveling public.

Strengthening the Economy and National Security with Information Technology. The Administration continued our investment to help ensure that America leads the world in information technologies that predict tornadoes, design life-saving drugs, and make air travel safer and more efficient, and maintain our nuclear weapons stockpile without nuclear testing.

Changing the Way Government Does Business: Doing More for Less

Eliminating Red Tape. 16,000 pages of Federal regulations have been eliminated by President Clinton and Vice President Gore as part of the Vice President’s National Performance Review.

Smallest Government Workforce Since the 1960's. There are 375,000 fewer employees in the Federal government workforce than in 1993 -- giving us the smallest Federal workforce since the Kennedy Administration.

Lowest Government Spending Since 1974. At 18.7 percent, Federal Government spending as a share of the Gross Domestic Product is at its lowest level since 1974.

Increasing Participation in Our Democracy with the Motor Voter Law. President Clinton signed the National Voter Registration Act during his first year in office -- making voting easier for millions more Americans, and leading to the registration of more than 28 million new voters.

Foreign Policy: World’s Strongest Force for Peace, Freedom and Prosperity

Promoting Peace and Strengthening Democracy


Ended a decade of repression and reversed ethnic cleansing in Kosovo by leading the NATO alliance to victory in a 79-day air war against Serb forces, forcing their withdrawal and ushering in international peacekeepers.

Advancing the Middle East peace process by brokering peace agreements between Israel and its neighbors; negotiating the Wye River Accords; and supporting the launch of final settlement negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians.

Restarted Israel-Syria track of Middle East peace process by holding first high-level meeting between the two former adversaries in Washington after months of behind-the-scenes Presidential diplomacy, and following that meeting with formal talks in January.

Brokered the Good Friday Peace Accord in Northern Ireland, ending decades of bloodshed.

Building a self-sustaining peace in Bosnia by leading diplomatic efforts to end civil war and foster multi-ethnic democracy.

Restored democracy in Haiti, ending military dictatorship and stopping refugee flows.

Supporting transition to democracy in Nigeria and mediating peace efforts in Sierra Leone and Ethiopia-Eritrea.

Ended violence and protected democracy in East Timor by leading diplomatic efforts and supporting international peacekeeping mission.

Helped settle Peru-Ecuador border dispute and end civil war in Guatemala.

Pressing for human rights and religious freedom worldwide, including in China, Burma, Sudan.

Pressing for human rights, core labor standards, religious freedom, and the elimination of child labor worldwide.
Combating New Threats

Protecting Americans from weapons of mass destruction by reducing Russian nuclear arsenals, easing nuclear tensions between India and Pakistan and ratifying the Chemical Weapons Convention.

Combating terrorism by developing a national counterterrorism strategy and striking terrorist targets in Afghanistan and Sudan.

Reducing North Korea threat through deterrence, diplomacy, and non-proliferation.

Containing Saddam Hussein through diplomacy, economic sanctions and military force.

Addressing new threats by protecting America’s critical infrastructure from cyber-terrorism and biological and chemical weapons.

Developing limited national missile defense to protect against attacks from rogue states while preserving nuclear stability with Russia.

Improving military readiness through increased defense spending, with the first long-term sustained increase in defense funding in 15 years
Strengthening Alliances and Building Partnerships

Fulfilling vision of an undivided, democratic and peaceful Europe by enlarging NATO, integrating Southeast Europe, and reaching out to Russia.

Building more constructive relationship with China through engagement and frank dialogue on human rights, security and trade.

Deepening security alliances with Japan and South Korea.

Secured landmark agreement to develop secure oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, strengthening ties in the region and ensuring Americans have access to vital resources.

Expanding trade and strengthening democracy in Asia and Latin America through APEC and the Summit of the Americas.

Building partnerships with Africa and pushing for passage of the African Growth and Opportunity Act.
Expanding Prosperity


Opening markets for U.S. exports abroad and creating American jobs through NAFTA, GATT and more than 270 other free and fair trade agreements.

Integrating China into the world economy through landmark trade agreement that opens markets to U.S. exports, slashes Chinese tariffs, and protects American workers from dumping.

Established World Trade Organization to reduce tariffs, settle trade disputes, and enforce rules.

Prevented Asian financial crisis from undermining America’s prosperity by promoting sound monetary policies, urging banking reforms and fighting corruption.

Stimulating worldwide growth through support for the IMF and G-8 global economic strategy.

Saved Mexico from currency crisis by providing financial relief.

Additional accomplishments:
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/additional.html

Improving the Quality of Life for America's Working Families
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/numbers.html

Supporting Women and Families
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/women.html

Working on Behalf of African Americans
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/african.html

A Record of Progress for Gay and Lesbian Americans
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/ac399.html

Working on Behalf of Asian and Pacific Americans
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/asian.html

Labor Accomplishments
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/ac599.html

Working on Behalf of the Hispanic Community
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/HISPA00upd.html

Increasing Opportunities for Americans With Disabilities
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/ac799.html

Supporting Native Americans
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/native.html

Improving Mental Health
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/MHAccomp.html

Working to Protect Senior Citizens
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/seniors.html

Supporting America's Farmers and Rural Communities
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/communities.html

The Clinton-Gore Economic Record
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/econrecord.html
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
51. Horseshit.
Your analysis is both simplistic AND assuming that everyone comes from the same place politically. Let us check the score, shall we?

Bill Clinton managed to do what no Democrat since FDR had done. Specifically, being elected President and then, being re-elected. Has it occurred to you that there is a reason for that?

Bob Somerby did an excellent piece on this very subject in today's Howler. Bob noted:

"Bill Clinton understood a key point about how you win; you don’t deride people who aren’t just like you are. Why did Clinton win the White House? Over at the New York Times, Michiko Kakutani was rolling her eyes about the “pointless digressions” in Clinton’s big book. But this key paragraph helped explain how Bill made his way to the White House:

CLINTON (page 251): 'Far more important than what I saw the Pentecostals do were the friendships I made among them. I liked and admired them because they lived their faith. They are strictly anti-abortion, but unlike some others, they will make sure that any unwanted baby, regardless of race or disability, has a loving home. They disagreed with me on abortion and gay rights, but they still followed Christ’s admonition to love their neighbors.'

“I liked and admired them,” Clinton says, although “they disagreed with me” on certain issues. As we noted, Clinton went on to describe the way he was able to reach agreement with Pentecostal ministers about a tangy political issue."

I am not as kind and decent a human being as Bill Clinton. I have not yet managed to love my enemies, but to condemn a man for being a decent fucking human being seems somehow indecent.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Yes. Not only that but I am beginning to believe that spending a ton
of energy hating Bush gives him more power than he deserves.
I mean consuming hatred, not can't stand him gonna work against him every day garden variety stuff. By saying what he said Clinton reduced his stature as a nemesis a bit. The freeps view this as an us vs. them fight to the death with Bush as their action hero. M. Cho said it well, like a tailgate party for Team America Vs.Iraq. I do have a point I just don't know if I am expressing it well.
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. If your opponent views your little contest as a death match
You better come armed and not let your guard down. We'll get rolled every time if we don't see this as life and death.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. My point is ...
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 10:55 PM by Pepperbelly
perhaps you should look at the score. Bill Clinton did it twice. The first since FDR. He did something very right and perhaps taking a look at this a little differently from total war might benefit all of us.

There is a reason that the right wing hates him so bad it makes their hair hurt. If they hated me like that, I would be very secure in the knowledge that I was doing something exactly right. Look at whoever you view as a template for leadership ... whoever it is ... and see if they hate YOUR person with the intensity they hate Bill.

That should tell you who the real threat to the fascists actaully is.
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. My guy is a trial lawyer... ;)
Again, not taking away from his achievements-- but his failings did help prevent the team going 3 for 3. And regardless of his victories, the statement and conciliatory gesture is a tactical error at a time when we need to be absolutely steadfast in our opposition.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. But shouldn't we ...
observe what it is that winners do?

I mean ... hell ... there is no reason for us to lose the entire interior of the country. Read the Somerby piece and the one from yesterday. It is eye opening.

And something to consider: perhaps it wasn't conciliation or a gesture of any sort. Perhaps he was being decent and gracious and was perhaps telling the truth. I mean, if he can get along with Pentacostals, he could well like Bush.

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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Absolutely and the reason they will not reestablish no term limits is that
he could and probably would do it again. Not only did he win twice he had just about the whole world in the palm of his hand.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Clinton used Nelson Mandela as an example of the point I am trying
to make about hate consuming and owning you and not being productive.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
52. nice way of telling chimpo "half the country hates you"
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HoosierClarkie Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
87. Now that is one way to look at it.
;)
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
55. Allow me to clarify and expound...
I take nothing away from the Clinton Gore administration's achievements during their tenure. I also admit that clinton absolutely was the victim of a witch-hunt the whole time he was in office-- that is undeniable. However, his indiscretions allowed the witch hunt additional fuel, and detracted from further accomplishments-- most notably preventing Gore from having a theft-proof margin of victory.

While I admire Clinton's skills as a politician and his personal political stances. I take great issue with his tatcic during his speech. Sure, it was only one line-- but it was a slap in the face to those who fought against this despicable human in the White House. I know some take this a a message not to hate, but I took it as a message to respect and co-operate-- to which I say "Why the Hell? and praytell, Bill, what is it about Dubya that there is to like?". I don't think there is anything to like, and I don't think that makes me guilty of hatred. I think that makes me (and the many who feel as I do) that we aren't going to give this guy an inch of respect or co-operation. When was that given to our side?

I think the remark was overly gratuitous, even in light of his "special day".

I doubt John Edwards, Howard Dean, Wesley Clark, Dick Gephardt, or Bob Graham (to name a few) would have given Bush that kind of political cover.

It was a tactical mistake that empowers the enemy. That is why I call him on it.
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dave502d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
61. When you got to tell a lie,tell a big one.look what *. said n/t
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
62. Bunch of fucking bullshit!
Why fault the guy for at least being cordial to Dumbya? I'm sure behind the scenes Big Dawg is telling his close personals how he really feels about him. Sure, I cringed when I heard that line, almost like he was piling it on a bit thick. But he's obviously trying to heal the nastiness that is abound in this country. Unfortunately, Bush is responsible for much of the nastiness and the partisan divide. But at least somebody's trying.

I'm fed up with so-called 'progressives' who slam Clinton. Who was the last real 'progressive' who won the presidency? Clinton was a bit more centrist for the purist hard-left snobs, but he did several things that helped the cause. First, he WON THE FUCKING PRESIDENCY TWICE!!! Second, he was effective as selling some strong liberal issues to the sheeple. Was Mondale able to do it? Dukakis? Dean? NO! Those guys didn't win! In order to succeed in doing this stuff, they've got to get elected first. Otherwise, it's a bit more difficult to accomplish.

For the hard-core left, I wish no ill will, but let me know when your guy can actually win the presidency, then we'll talk. Clinton knew how to sell it to the masses - as a result, he won elections. Clinton's a great guy who's main flaw is being a nice guy. Lay the fuck off!
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. One, he never won a majority--
Kerry or Gore would have won easily as well if Perot were running. I'm hardly a leftist (I liked Edwards and Dean), but I will point out that Kerry who _was_ pretty liberal other than the misguided Iraq vote (much mor so than Clinton), took as high a percentage of the votes as either time Clinton did.

I think a lot of you seem to think that because he won twice for us he can't do anything wrong and we should look kindly on everything he says. Frankly, I think that's bullshit. His remark did not help us NOW. I'm not talking about what he did in the past, I'm talking about being conciliatory when we need to be rock-solid united against Dubya. Clinton could have been polite without kissing Bush's ass.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
67. President Clinton
I think we are reading too many tea leaves into the niceities exchanged by our last elected President, and the current occupant.

You didn't think Bill was gonna tell Bush he was a freakin idiot, right there on stage, did you?

Anyway, Bill said something more important yesterday, that has not gotten much press attention. If you think about it, he looked Bush in the face, smiled at him, then slapped him around at the same time.

This was my favorite line from Bill's speech yesterday. I hope Bush heard it and got a clue " I believe our mission in this new century is clear. For good or ill, we live in an interdependent world. We can't escape each other. And while we have to fight our enemies, we can't possibly kill, jail or occupy all of them. Therefore, we have to spend our lives building a global community and an American community of shared responsibilities, shared values, shared benefits."
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Kill Radicalism Now Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #67
78. Excellent point made, journalist...
gentle as a dove, attack like a snake... (or however that saying goes)
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. That's Exactly Right
People missed that! And to me, that was the most important thing President Clinton said at his dedication. And it was clearly a damning indictment of Bush's policies. Yet, people keep talking about their so-called lovefest.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
69. DEATH TO THE DLC
We've been punked, for sure.

Time to end this sick enabling association with them.

Time to essentially stop all support for any of these parties who don't support we, the people. PERIOD. Time to form our own PEOPLE'S PARTY.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
70. His role at the event was to be a statesman
And he was. I dislike Bush's polcies intensely, but I don't know the man. Perhaps it is possible for Clinton to dislike George's policies, but not George. U.S. Presidents is a pretty exclusive club.

In any case, what would you have him do at this event? Rant against the Bush administration when they were invited guests (as they should be).

There is a time and a place for everything in our civil democracy. A time for civil disobedience, and a time for just plain old civility.





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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. well, I want to know what he likes about George Bush
because if it's what Chris Matthews likes, I guess adoration of phoniness is rampant.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
73. I love Clinton
But he is a big pandering say anything do anything to stay popular. That's why he is such a successful politician. I don't believe for one minute he likes George W. Bush. Just like I didn't believe him when he said "I did not have sex with that woman."

Come on folks don't get crazy over Clinton's words it's Clinton. It's what he does best.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
74. Pres Clinton, Sen Clinton, McAuliffe, Shrum, and some others can no
Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 10:40 AM by higher class
longer represent me. I did my best to expose the character assassinations of the Clintons and Gore and I will stand up for much of what they have done. I no longer think they can represent me. I don't understand their strategy. I despise suck-ups to thieves.

We don't need a centrist party that leans towards and sucks up to the right - we've seen enough of the lying and thieving right wing.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. If you're through with Republicans in Donkey suits,
...go here and support these guys:

http://www.pdamerica.org/
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. higher class: dude udaman! "suck-ups to thieves" -- remember that one
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. autorank, I haven't figured out your message, but I'll remember it and
work on it.
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
82. So, Bill, when's Chelsea enlisting to go to Iraq?
Yeah, right. To quote Buddy Holly, "That'll be the day!"
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. And the Bush twins?
Bill Clinton isn't responsible for turning Iraq into a failed war. Bush is. I want to know when Jenna and Barbara are going to take up the fight in Iraq, if their Dad thinks it's such a noble cause.

Of course, Bush's old professor from Harvard Business school recently said Bush was really so gung-ho for the Vietnam war, yet he didn't want to go.
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. We've talked to death about the Bush Twins.
I figure, if Clinton loves George W. so much, why doesn't he let that adoration manifest itself by encouraging Chelsea to fight in his beloved Georgie's little war?
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Clinton & Bush
I don't think Clinton loves Bush that much. Clinton has a lot of class, and I think he was just being gracious in his compliments to Bush at the library.

And it's true that among the living Presidents, they have times when they are able to put politics aside and come together for various events.

It doesn't mean they support each other's policies. Clinton has already stated his disagreements with the way Bush took us to war.

Like I said in a previous post, everyone missed the most important statement Clinton made the other day. He basically smiled at GWB and slapped him around at the same time. This is the quote everyone is not focusing on from Clinton during the dedication ceremony: "I believe our mission in this new century is clear. For good or ill,
we live in an interdependent world. We can't escape each other. And while we have to fight our enemies, we can't possibly
kill, jail or occupy all of them. Therefore, we have to spend our lives trying to build a global community and an American community, of shared responsibilities, shared values, shared benefits."

Is that a damning indictment of Bush or what?
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