Anybody watching the Kennedy Assassination Hackjob on History Channel?

[LosinIt]

Taking Posner's word that there is NO question that Oswald shot JD Tippitt. Oswald pulled a gun on the police in the movie theatre. He went to USSR and came back with a Russian wife. Yep, looks good on paper doesn't it folks? What a coverup.

[peacetalksforall]

1. Posner is a shill for the Warren Commission liars. On every other

subject he is a shill for the right wing.

[ilovenicepeople]

64. May I suggest the documentery JFK II The Bush Connection

it can be found at www.prisonplanet.tv (subscription needed @ 15 cents a day, $5.95 a month)

[WestHoustonDem]

2. I'm watching and it's

bullshit. They didn't show the part of the Zapruder film where JFK's brains seem to explode out of the back of his head.

[jdj]

70. the History channel totally sucks.

right wing spin from hell.

I sometimes start out watching and then 15 min in the spin overwhelms me.

[shesemsmom]

72. I like to watch it or Fox news to

get my blood presure soaring:nuke:

[spoogly]

3. Thanks for letting me know it is on

I wasn't watching it. But I am now.

Posner is a hack. His book certainly didn't settle anything. I saw him the other night trying to discredit that any voting fraud took place in the election.

He is saying that no one knows anything about Oswald. People have lost the "shooter" who he was and what led up to "his actions." All of the "conspiracy theory" books that I have read have gone into great a great deal of depth about who Oswald was and his actions leading up to the assassination. This whole show completely begs the question....

[H2O Man]

4. I have said that I do not

tend to believe in LIHOP/MIHOP regarding 9-11. The fact that I have seen Posner on cable shows trying to discredit sincere critics of the 9-11 Commission makes me uncomfortable. He is a sleazy person, who has been used by certain forces in this country to promote lies in several important cases. He has no more character than JohnO'Neil of the swift boat liars.

An interesting thing about Tippitt: where was he at the time of the assassination? Was he among the first police seen on the Grassy Knoll?

[Minstrel Boy]

15. Oswald and Tippit

From John Armstrong "Harvey and Lee" in The Assassinations:

"Oswald was seen in Tippit's presence at the Dobbs House two days before the assassination. The day of the assassination, Oswald and Tippit were seen at the Top Ten Record Store at the same time. Tippit was at the Gloco station when the cab carrying Oswald passed over the Houston Street Bridge."

And was it Dorothy Kilgallen who said she'd discovered Tippit was seen with Ruby and Oswald at the Carousel Club a week before the assassination?

[H2O Man]

16. Yes, true.

Suppose that we accept, as most people on all sides do, that when LHO went to the house where he rented, a car came by and beeped twice. A short while later, Tippet confronts someone who shoots him.
What is interesting to consider, even separate from the other reports of his possible connections, is where he was in the 90 seconds following the shooting.

[Huckebein the Raven]

5. It's getting near the time of the anniversary of JFK's asassination so

they have to reinforce the "status quo". I'm taking it that they aren't showing the mini-series documentary made by the BBC in the 70's "The Men Who Kill Kennedy" anymore ?

[H2O Man]

7. They show that once in a while.

It's a great series.

[Garbo 2004]

21. They showed it last year with a "new" hour done in '95.

They caught some hell for that and for the rerun showing a few days later included all sorts of disclaimers as I recall.

[Eloriel]

6. I'm watching, and it's so disgusting I'm about ready to turn it off

Listen to some music or something.

Truly pathetic. But of course it has that "authoritative" veneer thanks to Peter Jennings' voice.

[LosinIt]

8. The worst thing is that they are presenting everything as fact

When everything they are saying has been disputed. Did you know that Oswald, a high school dropout taught himself Russian? My Ass!

[LosinIt]

9. Jack Ruby had nothing to do with the Mob either

Boy, I am learning so many new things tonight. Funny they aren't mentioning that the Secret Service agents were drinking in his club the night before the assassination.

[H2O Man]

10. Right.

And the phone records that show exactly who he was calling for a week before the assassination. This is a pathetic show.

[mrbill]

20. the secret service was at the cellar the early morning hours before...

The Cellar was a Fort Worth coffeehouse/afterhours club owned by an accquaintance of Jack Ruby. That was back in the days when alcohol had to be smuggled into such establishments in a paper sack after midnight. The setups cost a dollar or whatever.

The agents drank everclear.

Ruby owned the Carousel Club in downtown Dallas.
___________

Jack Ruby had a steak at Campisi's Egyptian Resturant on Mockingbird the night before the assassination.

Joe Campisi was the first person to visit Ruby in jail. Joe had serious ties to the New Orleans mob and sent Carlos Marcello 100-lbs of Italian sausage every christmas.
___________

a footnote to post #16 - When Oswald entered his rooming house, his landlady was watching tv, she said hi to Lee Harvey and he then went to his room. During this time the landlady testified that a Dallas Police car pulled up in front of the house, honked a few times, then drove off.

Think that the housekeeper who was also present told the same story.

Just a personal theory, but Oswald might have been figuring out that he was a patsy by now. Oswald could have easily killed Tippet, because he feared that Tippet was going to shoot him first.

[blurp]

12. Of course he could have taught himself.

When everything they are saying has been disputed. Did you know that Oswald, a high school dropout taught himself Russian? My Ass!

Why do you doubt this? Do you really think success in school is the same thing as being intelligent? No way. It's about doing what you're told.

In fact, a disproportionate number of gifted teens (IQ > 130) drop out. They are over-represented among drop-outs.

School is there to teach the masses how to be good little socially adjusted workers.

It's isn't there for intellectually talented students.

[LosinIt]

24. Spanish I could believe, but Russian w/a different alphabet?

That would have taken full-time dedication. My point was that he was taught Russian by the military while he was in Japan, not that he was stupid. A little man named Albert Einstein didn't graduate either.

[Zynx]

77. Russian is actually much more similar to English than Spanish

The sentence structure is the same. Once you get past the alphabet, it's actually pretty easy. You can translate Russian directly without having to move around words.

Spanish, French and most other Romance use different sentance structure than English and Russian. This is because Romance langauges are Latin-derived.

[Minstrel Boy]

51. When Marina met Oswald

she thought he was from the Baltics because of his slight accent, his Russian was that good. She could not believe he was an American.

Ever wonder how he could un-defect with such ease? Ever wonder why he created a one-man chapter of a pro-Castro group in New Orleans, while associating with anti-Castro Cubans and some of the city's most notorious anti-communists?

Ever wonder?

[MrSlayer]

11. I was at the Grassy Knoll this past weekend and there is NO WAY...

That Oswald acted alone, if at all. Absolutely positively no way in hell that one gun from that building did it. You must see the site, it is plainly obvious. My dad, who was always an official story guy, switched instantly after seeing the site and angles.

[Pepperbelly]

28. but the kill shot did not come from the knoll ...

it came from the back-left however, not the back-right.

[MadHound]

30. If the shot came from the back, either left or right friend, the explain

The sudden suspension of Newton's third law of motion, you know, equal and opposite reation, yadda yadda?

If the shot had come from behind, Kennedy would have moved forward. His brains would have gone forward into the front compartment of the limo, rather than onto the trunk(remember Jackie climbing up on the trunk to gather those brain pieces up). A splatter of blood and gore would have showered Connely and the driver, instead, it showered the motorecycle cop who was to the back and left of the limo. Every law of physics point towards the shot coming from the grassy knoll. Why do you think that in this one instance these laws would be suspended?

[Pepperbelly]

32. Ok ...

let me ask you this before I present evidence to you...

Are you familiar with the physics of gunshot wounds? By that I mean the nature of entrance wounds vs. exit wounds?

[MadHound]

34. Yes, I am

And the small, neat little neck wound isn't an exit wound, it is an entry wound.
The wound to the back of Kennedy's head, the one that scooped out his brains is an exit wounds. Basic physics on a through and through shot. Don't try and tell me that you're going to claim it was an entry wound? That is foolish and easily disproven friend. Besides, every single doctor at Parkland hospital concurs with my analysis, as does every single medical person who has dealt with gunshot wounds. Heck most hunters know this phenomenon too.

Any other questions? And do you have any any explanation of the suspension of the laws of physics in your "shot from behind" scenario?

[Pepperbelly]

36. cool ... (warning ... graphic photos)

Look closely at these still from the Zapruder film. Look very closely at the wounds evident in the images.



In this photo, you see President Kennedy just before the head shot.




In this photo, you see the head shot. Note the copious amounts of blood and tissue blasting out the front of his head. A shot from the front would not do this.



Now, see the extruded tissue and the flap of scalp over the front of his face. That exit wound is right there to see and, God bless his poor ruined head, the damage is apparent and the shot came from the back-left, around either the County Records Building or perhaps the Dal-Tex building. It came from low rather than high, almost on the horizantal, in perfect agreement with the testimony of the John David, the assasin from France.



As he turn his head and you see the back of the head, the hair, etc is intact, the flap of scalp originating from the front of the head.

Any questions?

[MadHound]

39. Yes, what are you hoping to prove with this scenario?

You're explanation backs up my POV more than it backs up yours.

In your second picture, yes, there is a good deal of spatter coming out the front of Kennedy's head. The back of the head hasn't been touched yet. Thus, the shot would have to come from the front. If it came from the back, your initial splatter would be coming from the back of the head.

Your third photo further confirms my position, being as what we are seeing is the bullet exiting out the back of the head, taking blood, brain and gore with it, ie an exit wound.

Yes, the trajectory of this shot was from the front, low and flat, just as a shot from the knoll would be, not a shot from behind, in the sixth floor of the TBD building, a much steeper trajectory. Thanks, you've further proven my point here, even if you did it unintentionly.

[Pepperbelly]

42. no ... the bullet is long ...

gone between frame 312 and 313. Remember muzzle velocity and realize that to catch a bullet in flight on film requires an ultra high speed camera which Abe Zapruder did not use.

The blast of tissue and blood in 313 was the exit. An entrance does not do that. It punches a small, clean hole because the bullet has not yet deformed through impact. One it impacts, it begins to distort and tumble, rather than spiraling straight from the lans and grooves that spun it on its way.

I spent a good deal of my adult life dealing with exactly this sort of thing in a profgessional context. I have seen it many times. In fact, I have even seen high-velocity, high-power rifle wounds where the bullet did not exit at all, although I will not gross you out with how the cranium dealt with that little oddity.

When I lived in Dallas in the late 80s, I even earned a little pocket money taking people to the scene of Tippit's shooting, Oswald's home, Payne's home, and of course, Dealy Plaza.

No one believed more in the Grassy Knoll than I did until I got a hard look at these pics. Arguing with them is simply an exercise in futility. They show the truth.

But that does not mean that the WC was right. I tend to side with the testimony of Christian David; the shot came from behind, on the horizantal, not from the 6th floor.

I also believe that Oswald was not even on the 6th floor when it occurred.

[MadHound]

45. You still aren't explaining how come Kennedy is going back

As are the brains, gore and blood. The spatter went back, and to the left for several feet, as per the testimony of the motorcycle cop who was following the limo, behind and to the left. You also fail to explain why Kennedy went to the back and left when hit, in complete suspension of the Newtonian third law of motion.

Yes, an entrance wound makes some nice spatter, especially one to the head, since the head has the most cappilaries of any part of the body. So thus, and entrance wound would cause some nice spray, and your photo shows. But your photo also shows that the great majority of splatter went back, and to the left. This is corroberated both by Jackie's actions and eyewitness testimony.

[Pepperbelly]

47. I actually ... on the photo ...

see no spatter in the back. The few traces of spray are easily accounted for by the continued forward motion of the car (albeit slowed as we all know from those dreadful pics). Remember the muzzle velocity: that is why the intruding bullet specifically does not spray on entrance, Hollywood special effects aside, and it even, in its heat, semi-cauterize the tissue in direct contact with it before the metal is cooled by bodily liquids with which it contacts.

I cannot account for the motorcycle cop's testimony and that bothered me as well, particularly when I see the evidence before my own eyes of the blast and spatter going out the front of that poor man's head. You are right. That testimony counters the shot-from-behind scenario but for me, it does not outweigh what I see in the photos.

Personally, when examining clothing and other physical tidbits, I have never ... NEVER seen evidence of anything more than a belated trickle from an entrance wound, when it had an exit. No high-velocity spatter atomiaztion of blood which, IMO, is the only reliable indicator of whether or not there was a spray on entrance.

So far as the back-and-to-the-left motion of the body, I am confused. I have heard argumentation on both sides and my question in this comes down to two points: 1) does the missile, which is traveling very fast, have the energy to force back a body AS IT PENETRATES AND EXITS? I know that if the body absorbed all of the energy, it certainly would push the body in the direction of the shot but if it exited, would the residual energy absorbed be sufficient? 2) Could muscular-nuerological spasms from a ruined brain account for this motion?

I am not entirely satisfied with either senario and do not have a fully formed opinion on this as of yet.

Cheers and good hunting for the solution. It has damned sure eluded me since 1963.

[GarySeven]

86. Aerosoled brain matter

has a tendency to fly backward when it is projected forward in a car moving in the same direction. This is generally recognized to be in accord with Newtonian Physics.

Except, of course, in Bizzaro World.

[Pepperbelly]

44. addendum ...

after re-reading your post, I see no need for such acrimony. I do not have a dog in this fight. I do not dislike you nor am I insulting you in any fashion. I am merely speaking what I think are facts, facts based on evidence, a long professional career dealing with physical evidence, and much research into this tragedy.

I didn't like it either when I saw the photos because I realized that it had undercut what I believed. I got over it.

Lighten up a bit

[MadHound]

46. Excuse me friend, I don't mean to insult

But please don't mistake intensity for acrimony. I've been dealing with too many people for too long a period of time who refuse to face up to the facts right in front of their noses. You are just another in a long line. It gets old and tiresome after awhile.

[Pepperbelly]

48. no, I am not just "another in a long line" ...

I have spent a hard 20 years researching this very topic which I would hope that you could detect in reading my words.

Peace out.

[Zynx]

76. That's not an entrance wound

The wound is nearly the size of a saucer plate. Entrance wounds do not significantly exceed the diameter of the round, even when using extremely powerful firearms.

Any movement of Kennedy's body has nothing to do with where he was shot. Gunshots cannot move a human body unless the weapon used is powerful enough to send the shooter flying an equal distance.

[Pepperbelly]

37. self delete nt

[maveric]

54. Small hole in the font of his head large blowout in the back. Head snaps

back violently can only conclude that the shot came from the front.
Back and to the left, back and to the left.
Was the magic bullet theory explained. Thats all you need to look at to totally debunk the single shooter theory.

[Pepperbelly]

58. the blowout was in the front. Look at the pics.

It is very clear.

[maveric]

60. The flap was on the back of his head. And I have seen that film

thousands of times over the years.

[Pepperbelly]

61. The front is the part by the face, dude.

You know ... the part in front of the ears.

The back of the head is the part behind the ears.



See. The part behind the ears is undisturbed.

edited for subject-verb agreement. My face is red.

[maveric]

63. The stills dont show it clearly. The action shots show it best.

[Pepperbelly]

65. I know it's hard but look closely at his poor ruined head.

When you do, you see where the injuries are. It is not crystal-clear but it is clear enough as are the ears which serve as a reference point at the midline that does not change from frame to frame or with bodily movement.

The damage is exclusively in front of his ears. It is very clearly an exit wound.

That doesn't mean that you have to believe the deeply flawed and wrong Warren Commission Report. I do not. I subscribe mostly to the Corsican Theory although I'm open to the Accident Theory. I am not wedded enough with any theory to deny the evidence of my own lying eyes.

I hated giving up on the grassy knoll but I did. The shots came from either the Daltex Building or the County Records building from no higher than the 2nd floor. Or, the shot came from the motorcade behind him.

Not from the 6th Floor of the TSBD nor from the grassy knoll.

[GarySeven]

38. Newtonian Physics was alive and well that day ...

The bullet which entered Kennedy's brain compressed the tissue, forcing it forward until it exploded out the front of his head under pressure, thus forcing it backward in opposite reaction to the forward-forcing explosion.

You folks who think you know what happened that day have neither studied physics, neurology or even basic ballistics. I used to believe as you do, but 30 years of study on these and other subjects, professionally and privately - plus a detailed study of the Failure Analysis recreation - leads to the inexcapable conclusion that Oswald did it and he did it by himself, all the flaws of the Warren Report notwithstanding. It is possible for a flawed report to nevertheless produce a true conclusion.

[MadHound]

41. LOL friend, how many gunshot victims have you seen. Have you ever hunted

If you were familiar with either of these two subjects, you wouldn't be making the ridiculous claims that your making.

In essence, what you are saying is that the majority of brain matter and othe bodily tissues was put under so much pressure that it blew out the back? LOL friend, that's good, I've never seen such baldfaced BS before, congratulations. First off, all that pressure you're talking about would have been nearly instantaneoulsy relieved by the exit wound, thus, the bodily tissues would have gone out the front. In addition, you've yet to explain why a shot from the back would cause the the body of Kennedy to fall towards the shot, rather than following the laws of physics, and doing what it did, go away from the force.

Give it up friend, your twisted logic and tortured explanations simply make you look foolish. It is obvious that your study of such matters has been neither great in depth nor scope. I suggest you go work in a hospital emergecy room, or a morgue, and then try and peddle you BS. I think that you would be convinced of the folly of your rhetoric quite shortly.

[GarySeven]

85. Very funny.

[Zynx]

75. A gunshot is nowhere near powerful to move a person anywhere

This is Hollywood fiction. Kennedy is not going to move anywhere from any sort of shot other than a shotgun blast from inside a few feet. A human body has far too much mass to be knocked around by gunfire. Any movement you see from his is going to be a result of conscious or unconscious nerve contraction.

As far as the "gore cone", otherwise known as the insides of Kennedy's head, it's clearly blasted out to the front, which means he was hit from behind. It's impossible to do that with any sort of entrance wound. Just as it is impossible to inflict a entrance wound the size of what is seen, unless you are using a projectile nearly that large. This would be either a shotgun at extremely close range or a bazooka.

And while a shotgun could account for both his movement and the wound placement, the person would have to be standing right next to the limo. Not exactly a viable option.

[MadHound]

31. self delete

nt

[Zynx]

74. The Grassy Knoll is ballistic garbage

You can't blow out the right side of Kennedy's head with an entrance wound unless you are using a point-blank shotgun or an anti-tank rifle. Most of Kennedy's brain is blasted out to the front and to the right.

It simply can't be done. The fatal shot had to come from either his left, his rear, or a combination of left and rear.

[Pepperbelly]

88. and after this thread goes away ...

if the subject comes up again, people will still assert the same thing despite the evidence in front of their eyes. It is hard to give up the grassy knoll. It was hard for me to do so.

The grassy knoll theory is so entrenched that the facts and the evidence seem to make little difference.

[WestHoustonDem]

13. This show is really pissing me off

[MisterP]

14. official story:

Oswald hated America. Or was crazy. Then Ruby got very, very sad. :cry: Or was crazy too.
The end. Anybody unhappy with this is crazy too.

[maveric]

55. What a cheesy, moronic explanation.

But then again most americans ARE morons.

[John_Shadows_1]

17. Yeah, the establishment media is sending us a message ....

... Peter Jennings, the face of corporate media, is saying "nothing happens unless it happens the way we tell you it happens - no conspiracy, it's just like we described".

[H2O Man]

18. There are far more important issues facing the country.

Saddam Hussen. Gay people. Dangerous democrat tax plots. Perhaps we are all safer when we ignore reality. We do not want to send tearists the wrong message.

[MadHound]

19. I just got done watching this POS show,

And quite frankly, it was worse than I thought it would be from the previews that I saw. Not only are they glossing over many many facts, ignoring others, and lieing their asses off to beat the band, but they are also trying to refute physics itself.

Calling the small neck wound that Kennedy recieved is ludicrous! Any hunter, marksman, or medical person who has dealt with bullet wounds knows that the smaller, cleaner wound is always the entry wound. The wound that is larger, with more damage to the surrounding tissue is always the exit wound. And their explanation for the head shot going back and to the left is absurd. "Bodies can go anywhere when they are shot" my everloving ass! Newton's third law of motion, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, takes precedence here. An object, I don't care if it is a watermelon, a rock or a human head is going to go in the opposite direction from whence it was struck, be it with a fist, a club or a bullet. In addition, they conviently left out the fact that Jackie was scrambling for her husbands brains that were. . . wait for it. . .to the back and left of JFK! In addition, there is testimony from the motorcycle cop, traveling within a few feet, to the back and left of the presidential limo, that he was covered by blood and gore from the third shot, from his head to his toes.

I used to like, and even respect the History Channel, but over the years they've slowly but surely become a propaganda machine, spewing out distorted, revisionist history for the masses. I don't know who they think they are kidding, their target audience who would lap up this sort of swill is off watching WWE wrestling(and believing that's real).

If you wish to send them a comment on the POS revisionist program, you can contact them at <http://www.historychannel.com/global/feedback/faq.jsp?NetwCode=THC&level_1=nodes_38&level_2=nodes_71&level_3=nodes_86&x=39&y=16> I did, though I doubt that it will do much good. But at least you can let them know that the majority of their viewers are too intelligent to fall for this Pravda piece they're trying to sell.

[LosinIt]

25. This is what I just sent the History Channel

"On Saturday you showed, The Kennedy Assassination, Beyond Conspiracy. How do you sleep at night? The statements in that program that were each presented as 'fact' have almost all been disputed, and by reputable sources. Do you think that the House Subcommittee on Assassinations had an agenda? I used to have great respect for your shows and your channel in general, but that has been eroded since you have become an arm of the Propaganda Machine. Nothing to see here, folks. Move Along!"

Has the world gone totally nuts? Or is it just me?

[MadHound]

29. No, it isn't just you

I think that there is a serious push on after all of this time to enforce the Warren Commission version of things because they want the public, despite serious reasibs to the contrary, to stop thinking in "conspiritorial" ways. Too many people are questioning 911, the Iraq war, etc etc, bringing up ugly questions that can't be answered. This can all be traced to the Kennedy assasination, the first time in our history when the public seriously questioned the government's version of things. This event set the stage for all of the tough questions and serious distrust of government ever since. I think that they are convinced that if they put the stopper back in the geni bottle of the Kennedy assasination that it will also stop the public from questioning other matters.

Or perhaps it is because people are getting too close to the truth of the matter. After all, there is evidence out there placing GHW Bush in Dallas on that day, even though he continues to state he has no idea where he was.

Whatever the reason, it was a pathetic show, one that is unworthy of any serious consideration.

[robcon]

22. I agree with the show.

Oswald killed JFK and Tippett.

None of the conspiracy theories mnake any sense or have persuasive evidence. Almost none of them answer the question: if Oswald didn't do it, who did?

[mrbill]

23. who stood to gain? a lone nut who wants a place in history?

or the cia, new orleans mob, pissed off cuban guys, arbusto energy, brown and root and lbj with construction projects in viet nam, bell helicopter, and texas oil men........

Oswald was down down on the second floor drinking a coke when he realized that he was the patsy.

Poppy bush was in on the planning meetings.

[MadHound]

26. Then you haven't been paying attention friend

How do you explain the sudden revokation of the Newton's third law of motion vis-a-vis the third shot? If the shot was from Oswald, from behind, then Kennedy should have gone forward, as would his brains and the spatter. Instead, all of that went to the back and left.

How can you call the neck wound on Kennedy an exit wound? Any hunter or doctor will tell you that the small neat wound is an entry wound on a through and through shot. And, in fact, the doctors at Parkland hospital declared it to be such. Yet now the official explanation is trying to tell us that it is an exit wound? Serious suspension of the laws of physics.

The eyewitnesses who saw the Tippet shooting describe a much larger, heavier set man, much like the "Oswald" who was captured on film down at the Soviet embassy in Mexico. And one witness even said that there were two people who shot Tippet.

There are many many questions that surround the Kennedy assasination. And there are many many pieces of evidence and testimony that completely nullify the Warren Commission report. If you wish to keep your head in the sand and believe the official version of matters fine. But living your life this way is foolish, you are simply turning your critical faculties over to the government and hoping for the best. That could come back and haunt you one of these days.

[HamdenRice]

40. Question about physics

I agree with you that Kennedy was shot from the front -- and that's why his brains splattered to the back of the car.

But isn't this a different principle of physics? In other words, Kenney's head jerked back because the momentum of the bullet was transfered to Kennedy's head.

The physical law you are citing is what makes rockets move forward when hot fuel exhausts are shot backwards. In fact, conspiracy theory "debunkers" use the principle of "equal but opposite" reaction to explain Kennedy's backwards head jerk -- namely that expanding brain tissue shooting out of the exit wound acted like a jet forcing Kennedy's head backward.

Shouldn't you be arguing momentum, rather than Newton's third law?

<edited>

[MadHound]

43. No, Newton's third law is the applicable one here

The "jet fueled Kennedy head jerk" is something I've never come across before, except for just now, upthread. And that falls apart under close inspection because the pressure would have been relieved almost instantaneously by the exit wound.

No, Newton's equal and opposite is the law we're looking at here. A force was applied to the front of Kennedy's head, and it reacted equally and in the opposite direction. Don't be fooled by other distractions, they're just trying to peddle a line of BS.

It is deer hunting season, if you have a license to hunt you can go out and prove this matter for yourself.

[HamdenRice]

53. Then where is the opposite motion?

This query has nothing to do with the merits of the conspiracy theory. It's has to do with the usual application of Newton's Third Law -- which is usually illustrated with the example of rocket fuel being forced downwar and pushing the rocket upward, or the recoil of a rifle back against the shoulder from a bullet ejected forward, or stepping off a row boat that has not been tied up, or jumping off a skate board. You go forward and you push the skateboard or rowboat backwards.

Here, the bullet entered from the front toward the back and pushed Kennedy's head from front to back. That is not opposite motion, but the bullet's force acting on Kennedy's head. This was a demonstration of Newton's First and Second Laws, not of his Third Law.

For examples, see:

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/history/newton3laws.html

[GarySeven]

87. The relief of the pressure

through the forward portion of the skull was at a velocity of somewhere beyond 180 mph. Projecting forward, the spray of tissue and blood would snap a body backward across a pivot point at a right angle. For example, a head would snap back at the neck opposite the point of exit. If the exit was to the right forward, the head snap would be to the left backward.

This is assuming, of course, that Kennedy's skull was filled with brain matter and other tissue, as most people are. There are people whose heads are less dense, or more, as your posts illustrate.

[Pepperbelly]

56. He splattered out the front ...

See the pics upthread.

[HamdenRice]

57. Right. Lone gunman theorists and jet propulsion

Lone gunman theorists who believe that Kennedy was shot from behind, need to explain why he jerked violently backwards, in the direction from which the bullet is supposed to have come. So they say the entry wound is in front, and there is a massive explosion of tissue toward the front, at the exit wound

That jet propulsion of tissue from the front, out of the exit wound, then supposedly explains the movement of the head backwards. Here is a lone gunman theorists explaining it:

"http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm#jeteffect

Back, and to the Left. Back, and to the Left. Back, and to the Left.
It's supposed to prove that Kennedy was hit in the head by a shot from the Grassy Knoll. You know, the movement of his head back and to the left in the Zapruder film. But in fact, it's perfectly possible for an object hit by a bullet to move in the direction from which the bullet came. Richard Trott demonstrates this by shooting melons. Here is his first melon, and here is his second. This "jet effect" phenomenon was first suggested, and experimentally demonstrated by physicist Luis Alvarez. Trott shows that the average citizen with a rifle can recreate the effect.

Dr. John Lattimer reproduced Alvarez' results with human skulls, and with a rifle and ammunition identical to those Oswald used. Clicking on the image at right will download a video clip of one of Lattimer's shooting experiments."

So my point is that if you cite Newton's Third Law, you are a lone gunman theorist.

If you cite Newton's First and Second Law, you are a grassy knoll theorist, because the head would be traveling in the same direction as the bullet.

[Pepperbelly]

59. I cannot help what any theorists believe ...

I can only be responsible for what I believe. Look at the pics and see what is there.

[Pepperbelly]

27. Oswald shot no one ...

and I base this on police testimony. He was not on the 6th floor; he was on the second floor. Posner is wrong.

[Minstrel Boy]

49. "none of them answer the question: if Oswald didn't do it, who did?"

Do you mean who pulled the triggers? That's the least interesting question of all.

Much more intesting, and important: who paid for the bullets?

And this has been answered long ago for anyone with eyes to see.

[H2O Man]

50. That's right.

I will say, however, that there is no evidence that Oswald touched a rifle on 11-22, and no evidence that he shot one at anyone. I believe that the "theory" that Oswald shot Kennedy is no more convincing than a theory that Oswald shot Lincoln, and the same "magic bullet" that hit Lincoln also went through Connelly.

It is worth looking closely at who Lee Harvey Oswald was. A pretty clear picture has come together over the years, that is best summed up by his calmly saying, "I'm just a patsy" while in custody.

History is filled with examples of young kings being killed, and the reason is always about the same. This American example is not very different than so many others.

[robbedvoter]

33. History Channel has been hijacked by wingnuts about 2 yrs ago

Used to be on my fav A list, it's off my remote now. The change was quite dramatic and sudden.

[shesemsmom]

35. yep

they will never make me believe that crap....I've be studying it for about 20 years and I have come to this conclusion. Our Government thinks we are stupid. Just something like 2000, and Nov. 2004

[Minstrel Boy]

52. Allen Dulles on the Warren Report: "Nobody reads"

"But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record...The public will read very little."
- Allen Dulles, September 6, 1964, Warren Commission internal memo

[maveric]

62. Allen Dulles who was fired by Kennedy who wanted to smash the CIA

into a thousand pieces.
Yeah right.

[shesemsmom]

66. I studied this for 20 years and have come to this conclusion

our government did it and they think we are stupid

[Pepperbelly]

67. The murder, the coverup or both?

Which part of the government?

[shesemsmom]

68. BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

who stood the most to gain. Oswald wasn't smart enough to do all the things he did without help from big brother. Gees he was in and out of this country to the Soviet union and Cuba during the cold war for crying out loud. He was only a patsy. The man worked with the CIA and the Mafia to kill Kennedy. Oswald was follower not a leader. And defiantly NO MARKSMAN. Read Best evidence By David Lifton It will scare the hell out of you

[Pepperbelly]

69. I read that years ago ...

and am very familiar with Lifton's theory.

However, which part of the government do you think did this?

[shesemsmom]

71. CIA

on orders from Johnson. We could not get out of Vietnam. Bad for business, and the economy. To prove that Kennedy was set to remove 1000+ troops in Dec. 63 after the Assassination Johnson increased the troops by 5 times that many after Christmas. Johnson loved power. It was strange wasn't it the the FBI was ordered off of JFK in Dallas and people were allowed to hang from windows. No FBI was allowed on the running board of his car but many where hanging on Johnson's
May he rot it Hell,,,,, they took our dreams that day.......... and made things what they are

[Pepperbelly]

73. Someone sure did ...

I do not know who it is. The things that I have concluded after my 20-25 years of devouring everything written about the subject:

1. There was more than one shooter.

2. The kill-shot came from behind the President, either from the DalTex or County Records building at the 1st or 2nd floor OR from the motorcade itself (this theory is very interesting).

3. Christian David was correct is asserting that the first thing that has to be realized is that the kill-shot came on the horizontal.

4. Oswald did not fire a gun that day, neither at Kennedy, Conley, nor Tippet.

Things still very murky to me.

1. To whom the operation belonged ... CIA, Corsicans, Mafia, Cubans, who? I am not sure. There is evidence supporting each.

2. Who ordered the operation? I haven't a shred of evidence, only an evaluation of interests and gains.

3. How was the coverup executed?

[0rganism]

78. What's your take on Ruby?

I have a hard time figuring that guy out. If he did it for the Mafia, what was his reward? Or was it done under threat to his family? He certainly seemed concerned for their safety.

On the other hand, maybe he did act semi-spontaneously, which would also explain his lack of concern for personal consequences.

I have this nagging feeling that Ruby was somehow key to the whole thing, one way or another, and his premature death in 1967 was a serious setback to learning "The Truth" -- even if that truth was just a further confirmation of essentials of the Warren report.

[Pepperbelly]

79. You may be right.

He doesn't fit.

I do not understand what he could have gotten for not only what he did but his almost silence through the entire ordeal. Except for his pleas to the Commission to take him away from Dallas and to D.C., where he made hints that he knew something explosive that he wasn't saying ...

And then bang! the cancer gets him.

If we start making "connections" to Ruby, including the flurry of long distance toll calls he made contemperaneously with the announcement of Kennedy's trip to Dallas, our heads may start spinning.

[shesemsmom]

81. his only purpose was to silence Oswald

the warren commission wouldn't take him to DC to talk and he wouldn't talk i Dallas. So he took it with him

[shesemsmom]

80. I agree with most of the above except I believe the kill shot came

from the knoll
In 28 we may find out the truth and I may be dead and gone by then I hope I get the answers in heaven

[Pepperbelly]

82. Look at the pics I posted.

There is absolutely no way that wound was produced from a shot from anywhere except behind. Use his ears as your guide, keep the nature of exit wounds in mind and note that all of the damage to his poor ruined head was in front of the ears.

[shesemsmom]

83. autopsy photos

prove that exit was in the back photo 2i3 and 214 show head going back then forward. The last shot had to be from the front

[Pepperbelly]

84. post 'em if you got 'em... (graphic)

In the Zapruder film, frames 312 on show the damage to Kennedy's head and all of it was in front of his ears. That was the exit wound.



There is the damage, clearly in the front of the head.