I'm visiting my Mom-Just got in an outrageous fight w/ my Stepfather

[Pachamama]

Here I am...I just arrived yesterday evening to visit my Mom in Florida with the Pachababies....My Stepfather is a retired Colonel in the Army...Bush supporter and Repuke...

He knows my politics...he made a flat out statement when I arrived that we aren't to talk politics while I'm here...I said fine...meanwhile, he'll have FOX news on and go on and on about things happening...so I responded...he says that's talking politics...I say its responding to what he is choosing to have on...Meanwhile, I choose to still wear my "Women for Kerry" pin on my shirt lapels...I am not doing that because I'm here visiting, I've been doing that for over 7 months now....I don't see why I need to stop because I'm in "his house"....Meanwhile, he overheard me talking to my Mom (who is a dem) about my outrage over what was happening on CSPAN tonite related to the OMNIBUS spending bill that was about to put a law in place allowing Congress & Senate to see any taxpayers tax return....When I asked to get on their computer and log on, he saw I was on the DU....Their computer is in the Family room where they were watching some "Reality Show"....He started telling me that I was obsessive and that I should get a life and accept the fact that John Kerry lost and its the Republicans who are in control and I should stop hanging out with the party of whiners and conspiracy theorists...

I fucking lost it...I told him that what was happening at that very moment on the Senate floor was not "conspiracy theory" it was happening...I told him that what I was upset about had nothing to do with John Kerry, it has to do with our constitution and civil liberties, for ALL americans, not just Democrats....He started going on about how if I don't like it here, I should go to Canada...Needless to say from there, it went downhill...shouting, the f-word and a lot of other things got said...I told my Mom that if he attacks my beliefs one more time or insults me, I'm leaving...she then said that I shouldn't wear my Kerry pin or talk about politics at all....I told her that I love her, but that aside from my children, this is the most important thing to me and if they don't want politics discussed, then for them to turn off the tv's showing it happening and I won't comment....she then said that they had the right to have the tv on to what they wanted (but I guess I'm just supposed to sit there and not comment or speak my opinion)...

I don't know what to do...I'm so mad right now...the kids are happy to see their Grandma, but I will not sit by and not speak my mind on issues....I actually have been trying to be respectful, but when I see something on Fox News or like tonite have a conversation with my Mom and he happens to overhear it, what am I supposed to do? Wear my Burka?

Gawd, if we can't discuss our country's future, what future is there? The comment about Canada really pissed me off...I love my country and I'm trying to save it from itself....seems that a large part of it doesn't want to be saved....

Like the bumpersticker says "If your not outraged-your not paying attention"

:cry:

[tk2kewl]

1. maybe instead of visiting

you should send you mo aa plan ticket and have her visit you solo next time

[tedoll78]

3. BINGO.

Heartily agree.

[n2mark]

4. Good Idea

[Pachamama]

7. That is going to be what happens from now on obviously....

...or as my Stepfather would say "she can come visit ya with them Canucks"....

It was very upsetting....I felt so alone....my husband isn't here because when we arrived yesterday, he continued on to the Bahamas to attend a wedding of a friend of ours...I came here instead because its hard to travel to the Bahamas with small children and I thought making a week of vacation with the kids seeing Grandma would be nice for everyone. I had absolutely no idea that my Stepfather would be such an ass. I guess now that Bush has a Man-date, this has emboldened all of the Repukes to go after anyone who disagrees with them....Had I known, I wouldn't have come here....I feel sick....

[tk2kewl]

15. I hope you don't hafta see one of these in the sunshine state

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2047051&mesg_id=2047051

[NightTrain]

49. I loathe Florida.

I lived in Melbourne Beach from 1996-97 and came to hate, hate, hate the fucking place. White supremacist graffiti on the men's room walls, right-wing invective spewed forth on the Letters to the Editor page, half the goddamned radio stations had the so-called "Christian" format.... Suffice it to say, during my time in Florida, I came to fully understand why it's shaped like a limp dick.

I'll never set foot in the so-called "Sunshine State" again! :puke:

[Unforgiven]

69. Right You Are

And I was born and raised here, and I can't wait to leave, my wife´s father is here and in poor health, so we must stay.'
It wasn't always this way.

[ever_green]

79. I hate it too.

Can't stand the place.

[Lorien]

100. Me too-and I still live here

can't WAIT until I have the funds to leave!

[notadmblnd]

37. I know how you feel. I had a friend come up from Fla

I told her not to come until after the election but she came the monday before. I had volunteer work to do and I was involved with poll watching. She tried to tell me not to discuss politics in my own home. Can you imagine that? We had a huge arguement the night before she left to go back home and I haven't heard from her since. I think the people in Fla have comsumed some special kind of koolaid and have had holes eaten in their brains by it.

[Pachamama]

39. Like your tagline says to never "underestimate"

Stupid people... :eyes:

[Poor Richard Lex]

47. Ambush him

wait until he is sleepy or first thing in the morning and pick a fight with him. Hammer him with your talking points and leave. Give him something to thimk about.

Sounds like you have nothing to lose, which in itself can be an advantage. Or you could just stay the hell away from this freeper dipshit.

[tsuki]

92. No. He is the fully indoctrinated. No changing him.

[grasswire]

8. sounds like a good plan

The kids can be just as happy to see Grandma at their own house. No reason why all of you should go through such a fuss.

What a bully. I pity your mother.

[Pachamama]

17. Yeah, it will be the plan for the future...now I'm here and got to put up

He also didn't seem to like it that I mentioned that this bill apparantely further cuts "Veteran benefits"....

Yea, he's a bully and he was used to being a commanding officer and obviously doesn't like the fact that he doesn't have any command over me....Sadly, I think he reminds my Mom of her Dad...but that's her Karma to be worked out, not mine....

[bloom]

35. If you haven't read this yet...

you might enjoy reading it while you are there - to put him in perspective. I bet he fits the mold.


http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html

Metaphor, Morality, and Politics,
Or, Why Conservatives Have Left Liberals In the Dust

by George Lakoff


---

Good luck. :hug:

[Pachamama]

64. Long Read, but very interesting...especially interesting is the family

description, in particular the "liberal" vs the domineering, control version that describes my stepfather...

[AnIndependentTexan]

43. I'm sure there is a hotel room somewhere

You can always tell her that if she wants to vist you that you will be staying here. It is going to be my room and we are going to have the tv on MY channel so don't bring the stepfather.

[spotbird]

44. Hotels are always an option.

Leave the kids with Grandma and the Freeper and treat yourself to a couple nights at a nice hotel. If your kids are little you likely don't have much time for yourself anyway.

Check Priceline for some good deal at a 5 star hotel and relax.

[okieinpain]

42. u'r mom is more important then politics.

[Bake]

60. That's the ticket.

But after her "we have the right to have the TV on" comment, let her pay for her own damn ticket if she wants to see you or her grandchildren. It's her loss.

Bake

[Ducks In A Row]

2. tell them you're moving to canada and they can visit there

really, you don't have to subject yourself to that crap.


btw, remind your mom, her husband supports a man who is destroying her grandchildren's future, and no man is worth that crap.

[GreatAuntK]

27. It sucks.

We used to call it the generation gap.

I can't give you advice, because I can't deal with it myself. Several people in my family just don't want to know.

You hit it on the head, though, it's not an opinion, it's real subversive stuff that is happening. It's hard to argue with people who aren't curious. It's so frustrating, watching hours of boring budget meetings, or 9-11 investigations, for instance, then watching them again because it's so complicated, and trying to grasp it all - and then when you try to describe the awful stuff, being dismissed by people you love who tell you it's just "politics." I learned from a beloved history teacher in high school that it was important to be a good citizen and to be aware of current events - at a time when I wasn't - but it stuck.

Someone said recently the communist witch-hunt in the 50's brought about a change in some people of that generation to keep politics secretive. I don't know.

I sort of think they don't have a leg to stand on in a debate about these effers, and it's easier to be a Republilcan, and just go with the team, and not have to listen to complicated or boring stuff.

[ohioliberal]

5. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet

for the sake of your kids. Repukes will never change their minds. I would just stay as far away as possible. Take the kids and your mom out of the house as much as you can.:hug:

[Pachamama]

14. The only reason I'm not out the door right now is because of the kids

But I'm with you on the idea of being out of the house as much as possible....

Thanks for the hug....I needed that... :hi:

[Rumba]

6. With ya

Hang in there. This is exactly why I'm not going to spend xmas with my sister and her right-wing catholic husband this year.

Ahh, the old "love it or leave it" bullshit. Loving someone doesn't mean that no matter what they do you have to pat them on the head and smile. Sometimes, when you love someone dearly, you have to speak up and say they're wrong. It's only children that love mommy in a "she can do no wrong" sense. Mature adults can love someone and criticize them as well.

And mature citizens can love their country and criticize it as well. In fact, sometimes tough love is crucial.

Thanks to Al Franken for the analogy.

[aquart]

9. What is it you want to teach your children?

Decide from there.

They invited you? You are their guest?

MY stepfather was a Republican and we had some vicious fights, but he would not have done what this man is doing, using HIS politics to spoil your holiday and your mother's.

It's beginning to look a lot like Viet Nam, isn't it? Remember, this is the America George WANTS. Because it's more easily controlled.

[Pachamama]

38. Funny you mention Vietnam..He was a Helicopter pilot there...

Yeah, I was thinking to myself that his behaviour is reflecting what I believe we are now seeing everywhere in this country and what we will all be seeing more of- George W's America - Divided, angry and attacking those that don't agree with name calling and insults...

[Carni]

10. My two cents...

Your stepfather is probably treating your mom like shit when you aren't there and she is trying to avoid blowback.

I don't know your mom's financial situation, or anything about you or your mom....but before I left (if you think it's practical and safe)
I would say "Mom, you are living in a way that is contradictory to the way you raised me and I hope for your sake that you will regain or find your spine"

[Pachamama]

41. Sadly Carni, I know you are right...I know he isn't great to her

...and you hit the nail on the head...she's totally dependent on him financially as opposed to me who is financially independent...he's a jerk...when he isn't insulting my politics, he's making comments about "us wealthy elitists" in CA or making homophobic jokes about CA...

I love my Mom, but I won't be returning to visit...

[Starlight]

53. Your poor mom.

I have to admit I've never understood the appeal of the pompous bully, but some women really go for that. :shrug:

[freeplessinseattle]

61. yes, my first thought too, b/c I see the same thing with my mom's bf

and I know how tough it is. It sucks that you should have to bear sole responsibility for being the quiet one about politics, that is so unfair and is the double implication that you don't matter and don't have the right to your opinion, it's simply disresptecful the way he acts, and I'm sure he does treat your mom as badly, if not worse, especially since she is also a dem. my mom is a repub, but is more inbetween about some things but keeps her mouth shut, and has taught me to do so. I jsut can't though when her redneck boyfriend/roommate says something sexist, it seems like a betrayal not to say anything. she has lost backbone considerably since living with him, even got her cat declawed at his bidding. which is something she's been against all my life at least, it breaks my heart, but she so focused on appeasing him, and acts like she should thank her lucky stars he "supports" her, though she makes almost half of their income and they both paid in to build their house on land he got from his father, so I guess that makes him lord and master. I don't keep my mouth shut when he says something stupid, I don't bring things up, but if they say something about my bumper stickers or anything else rude I feel like I'm encouraging their superior, dismissive attitude, implying it's ok to be disrespectful of others, so I try to point that out somehow.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. in a way

I'm relieved to hear someone is having a worse Thanksgiving than I've ever had.

Guess that doesn't help much.

[Pachamama]

40. That's if I make it to Thanksgiving! Yikes, I have no idea how bad

things are going to get....Atleast my husband will be joining us in several days, I just hope I make it till then....

:hi:

[bloom]

12. I think you are right

that having FOX on is the same as talking politics.

What about staying in a motel? It doesn't sound like compromises are going to rule the day. :shrug:

[MichiganVote]

13. How is it that to state one's opposition to politicians=dislike of one's

country? Isn't that a stretch? If someone says to me that if I don't like what politicians vote for I must leave my country doesn't that invite something of a revolving door? How can that be any good?

I remember a time when politicians were considered objects of humor, cynical or otherwise. Who died and made them God.

A visit with grandchildren is a visit with grandchildren. They were at fault for leaving a TV running on for any reason, let alone turned on to a news channel like Fox which is guaranteed to disrupt a visit with you. On the other hand,even when you are not treated like a guest, act like one until you leave. Then, make up your mind whether or when to return. Might be tomorrow, might be never.

Whatever, cool it for the sake of the kids and live to fight another day.

[shesemsmom]

16. sorry

what an awful mess. I feel terrible for you. There isn't much you can do if you continue your stay. I too was watching c-span and made a couple of out loud statements to myself and my hubby came into the room I was cleaning from top to bottom because I work best when I'm pissed and said geeeeeess can;t you let it rest. This is all you worry about. I told him apparently one of us needed to since he shows no concern. About that time he realized he might be out matched and went back to the guitar in the bedroom. All fine and well go back your music and ignore the piper. I just don't understand some people. As for the step pop, you may have to agree to disagree or cut that visit short. You have my sympathy. I understand totally

[Steely_Dan]

18. I Hear Ya....It's Tough

I recently posted about how the election drove a wedge between my sister and I. She felt it necessary to rub it in my face by calling me singing...."Who is the President?" Needless to say, I was not too thrilled. We still haven't spoken to each other since the election.

I was told...much like you, that I was too "passionate"...too "serious." I screamed back...."THIS IS SERIOUS!"

I have done a lot of thinking in the past few weeks...asking myself if my "passion is overriding my reason." That sort of thing...

I've concluded that I need to stick to my guns...As Kevin Kosner says in "JFK:" - "Let the truth be told, though the heavens fall."

I will NOT back down...I sincerely believe that I am on the side of truth...and I will not capitulate to the right...regardless of who might call themselves members.

Thank you for standing up for your convictions. It is never easy to wave the banner of reason and truth...sometimes we stand alone. It is further evidence that you have chosen the many over the few. By supporting a higher calling which goes well beyond the immediate family, you have chosen to address the widest spectrum possible...that of all America and all Americans.

Hold to your beliefs...though the heavens fall.

-Paige

[eleny]

33. Thanks for your update

I was wondering how it was going so far.

[Steely_Dan]

86. Thanks

Eleny...

Yeah...I have sort of stepped back from the relationship. We will reconcile at some point. However, right now, the wounds (fresh from the election) are still present.

-Paige

[Cats Against Frist]

98. Funny

I've been doing the same self-examination, too -- wondering if I'm taking this too seriously. Then, I always read this:

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

(the quote from the Suskind article in the NYT)

And then, reality hits me just a little too hard, and I realize that I'm not being crazy.

[noamnety]

19. You need some better comebacks

and the ability to count to ten.

Tea or something to drink helps a lot, you can thoughtfully take a sip before responding - try it, you'll see it does wonders for helping you not to escalate screaming and swearing.

I'm proud of you for saying the F word, though - the more times they hear the word FRAUD the more they will realize we do not accept Bush as being legitimately elected. ;)

I don't think you should back down. If he can watch fox, certainly you can go to whatever news source you wish, and if that means DU, so be it.

If you don't like the erosion of civil rights you can move to Canada? Okay, if he wants state sponsored religion, he can move to Afghanistan.

And wear your pin proudly. If you have children, certainly you are too old for them to be dressing you. That should be a nondebatable subject. Not an argument about if it provokes anything, I wouldn't even allow myself to get pulled into that. You're an adult, you dress yourself. End of story.

I might not go out of my way to start an argument, but I wouldn't be cowered into letting my stepdad dictate what websites I can go to or how to dress myself. I think you may need to set some boundaries there - and frame them as just that, boundaries. They get to decide what channel to watch, you get to decide things that directly affect you.

Lots of counting to ten. And tea. Or something stronger. Hang in there.

edit for frightening grammar errors

[Pachamama]

46. If I wasn't breastfeeding right now, I'd be doing a few shots right now

..but some Green Tea right now sounds good... :)

I like your advice - thanks...I'll try to hang in there...and meanwhile I will do a lot of counting - and wearing what I want :)

BTW - he didn't believe me when I said OH was being recounted....

[Birthday]

20. Yuck

What a nightmare. I am sorry for your frustration.

I guess one way to look at your situation is to ask yourself if these people have any interest at all in your opinions. It sounds like they do not. Your poor mother may have to put up with this hyper-conservative step-father or suffer the consequences. I am sure that your mom is interested in your thoughts, but may not feel at liberty to listen to you.

When I know that the person I am with has absolutely no interest in my opinion, or is committed to her opinion no matter what, I say nothing. What IS there to say to someone like that?

You may find yourself in an emotionally safer position to keep the conversation to all the unimportant things of life and save your precious things for people who will deal respectfully with them.

It is disappointing to find that the only conversations we can have with some people are superficial ones, but it may serve a greater good, i.e. creating a peaceful environment for your children to enjoy your mom, etc.

I really think that there is something to that "pearls before swine" idea. This country is precious and so are your deeply held views. Why share your valuable ideas with someone who will only trample on them? Save them for your friends around you and here at DU.

I don't know if that helps. But, that's what I have come to myself. :hug:

[GreatAuntK]

36. I'm awed by your insight

Birthday, that was a great post, I know it reached me, and I hope it reached Pachamama, too. I'm keeping it to look at from time to time. Thanks to all of the good advice of others here, too, who have been confronted with this problem.

[Pachamama]

51. It is a great post - and I will also refer to it often as well...

And sadly, I think many of us will be facing this kind of situation with someone in our life, possibly family....

:hi:

[rainy]

21. you will not change this man's opinion,

so maybe you might just ask for him to hear you out as to why you are a liberal, why it is important to you,and for your mother's sake, and she deserves this, the two of you should agree to disagree and really not discuss politics. Make a big effort for your mom.

[NJ_Lib]

22. Kids have to see Gram, I know, BUT...

... next time you visit, girrrrrrrrl, you need to get yourself a little hotel room... I don't care if it's Motel 6, it's better than staying there... Visit all day with them and try to keep busy maybe taking your Mom and the kids out and then come evening say Good Night, and hightail it out of there... obviously he's itching and baiting you and he's loving every minute of this... Especially if Mom takes his side and gets mad at you, all the better... Those poor kids, all they want to do is have fun and visit with Grandma and he can't keep his mouth shut for two seconds... Immature Shmmuck...

Don't stop visiting because of this jerk, you may live to regret that but next time, do everybody involved a favor, kids too, and get yourself a room...

[scarletwoman]

23. You'll have to decide which is more important...

Is it more important for your children to have a harmonious visit with their grandmother, or for you to voice your opinion in a hostile environment?

You're obviously not going to change your stepfather's mind, you're only going to foment tension and discomfort in the household, and your kids will pick up on it and be uncomfortable too. Is that fair to them? Is it fair to your mother?

sw

[KarenS]

24. I second the hotel idea !!

It will give you (& them) some 'downtime' ~ visit for awhile each day but when that TV goes on ~ yawn, stretch, and leave !!

I spent some time in October with my repub daughter & son-in-law,,,,, I felt like I was arguing with a couple Bumper Stickers,,,, no meat to their statements or beliefs ~ just slogans!! It made me NUTS!!!

hang in, take care of yourself in this ~ you don't need to be shamed or taunted.

[NuttyFluffers]

25. stay in a motel, you don't have to tolerate that.

i know i wouldn't.

[Birthday]

31. NuttyFluffers

I just saw the quote at the end of your post. What is that about? Thanks.

[noamnety]

54. about that sig line

Maybe they have other reasons as well, but I've got FedEx and UPS on my boycott list as part of the starve the beast campaign, because they donate heavily to republicans.

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=M

[NuttyFluffers]

59. yup, pretty much that. and another thing...

i want people to actively support isolated 'blue-people, red-staters' and their businesses. what's the best way to do that? business by mail :D but then we need to know who to ship through.

hence don't use Fed Ex, UPS, or DHL. just use USPS. this way we have a boycott that's easy to do, divides any 'red-people' counter patronage (they'd have to choose through 3 choices, thus divide their effort), and helps our lonely bretheren. these two are pretty egregious donators -- high $$ amount and high bias % to GOP. i'm sick of corporate money in my politics, so time to make them cry uncle and change their evil ways before all of what our ancestors fought for in this country is lost (a lot is already lost, but i want to stop the rest and then reverse the process).

a pro-active boycott/buy-up.

[Bok_Tukalo]

26. Maybe it's just that those here are committed

but that is a disturbing story. My family is large and diverse ranging from Evangelicals to rural community activists and when we get together and talk politics, it never descends into hostility.

[juliagoolia]

28. Get more and better T_Shirts

Read books.. LIKE BUSH's Brain etc..

Don't let him intimidate you, but state your side by reading these books and leave them laying around.


When he is done watching his show, ask if he minds if you change the channel and flip to Link Tv or FSTV.

Dont talk about it, just have it in his face and be who you are.

Get more T-Shirts:)

Like one that points out that only 30 % of eligble voters voted for Bush and thats no mandate.

Too bad you are already there, I know its rough. Tell him ya know Step daddy, its not nice to gloat. You know as well as I do we don't agree, you ask me not to bring up politics out of respect to you, and I am asking you to turn off Fox out of respect for me, how about a little give n take on both sides?

You could avoid him. You could just stay out of the room he is in when the TV is on.. You could lets see.. Talk in analogy.

Stories not about what he is watching or Bush, but stories that point out the same things we are seeing..

Make them up. I used to do that in my military in-laws house.

I'd make up a story about some kid .. like if I wanted to bring up the delay thing ..for example

I'de make up a story about my kid getting into a fight with a bully at school that always wants to change the rules in the game after they get started, and ask them for advice and what did they think about this kind of thinking>? and what would their advice be...

'Then you might say, I bet that advice would be good applied to larger more adult problems of the day too. LOL

[GreatAuntK]

29. It sucks.

We used to call it the generation gap.

I can't give you much advice, because I can't deal with it myself. It could be you'll never break through to him, but don't blame yourself for the wall.

Several people in my family just don't want to know.

You hit it on the head, though, it's not an opinion, it's real subversive stuff that is happening. It's hard to argue with people who aren't curious. It's so frustrating, watching hours of boring budget meetings, or 9-11 investigations, for instance, then watching them again because it's so complicated, and trying to grasp it all - and then when you try to describe the awful stuff, being dismissed by people you love who tell you it's just "politics." I learned from a beloved history teacher in high school that it was important to be a good citizen and to be aware of current events - at a time when I wasn't - but it stuck.

Someone said recently the communist witch-hunt in the 50's brought about a change in some people of that generation to keep politics secretive. I don't know.

[welshTerrier2]

30. a few quick comments ...

first, take a deep breath ... these are important relationships ... take a little time to define the future ... you don't need to figure it all out in one high tension visit ... keep your distance; seek peace and quiet ... take some time for reflection ...

second, here's how i talk to people like your stepfather ... i'd say something like: look, it's clear we don't respect each other's political views ... i want to ask you something though ... do you at least respect the fact, even though you completely disagree with me, that I care very deeply about the issues I believe in and that I am only seeking an America that will be best for me and my children? I don't ask you to respect my ideas; I ask you to respect me ...

if the answer is still hostile, my belief is that there's no way I can have a relationship with this person ... if they're willing to tone down the hostility and meet me part way, then we try to find some basis to communicate ...

one last tip, it's probably OK to ask your mom to help you achieve peace, but don't put her in the middle ... don't make her choose ... it could be like making her choose between losing her left hand or her right ... hope this helps some ...

[Cleita]

32. Some things never change.

If you talk to him again and you get to the Canada bit again, advise him that most of the blue states are thinking of joining Canada and since most of the tax revenue comes from them, you can wish he likes the fact that he will be getting a lot less in government services because of it.

[mahina]

34. Good luck sister

He sounds like a perfect asshole. The only useful thought I can share is to focus on the problem, not on the person. Cool head main thing.
:hugs:

[justa]

45. Don't worry he just might be called back for inactive reserve.

I don't know how long hes has been retired but lets see how fond he is of * and company when he is call back to active duty. The just call back a pilot from where I work that has been out for 6 years.

[Pachamama]

48. Well. funny you say that, because I said the very same thing &

he started going on about how he would proudly go serve if called...I told him why wait, since he seems to so proudly support the Commander in Thief...he didn't seem amused....He's 60, so he'll likely never see combat, but it sure would be funny to see him have to put away the golf shoes and instead dust off the army boots...

[AuntPatsy]

52. He sounds like my husband except he obviously doesn't realize

yet that it is much easier just to turn faux off than to listen to the tirade that that repub entertainment channel can definatly incite even from the most docile of us...

You should tell him you decided to stay a tad bit longer for perhaps maybe a month, you will see how quickly he just might chill out..

Try living with one of them, my God, it's not exactly easy, going on twenty seven years now........

But I have only recently became vocal about my political leanings to my shame...

If that doesn't work, for your moms sake, ignore him, it has to be hard on her...

[grasswire]

50. how old is this man?

Sixty?

It sounds to me after thinking about it that this is a man who once had a fair amount of power and energy who is now on the downhill slope and knows it. It almost seems as if his emotions are coming from a place of fear -- fear of having no power, fear of no control.

Or maybe even he's slipping into an early Alzheimer's mode.

If he's intolerable with your mother (or emotionally abusive) perhaps she would be better off with you and the kids.

I know that's a huge step, but it might come to that eventually.

Women of a certain age seem to be reluctant to part ways even with a mean man, though. And there are probably financial considerations for her. Military pension, etc. That's nothing to sniff at for an older woman.

Does she have any influence over him at all? Or is she afraid of him?

[seabeyond]

55. tell them you refuse to be in that room with that tv. you

will not listen to that garbage. go outside, go to your room. dont visit, while that tv is on. everytime he turns it on leave the room

[IdaBriggs]

56. Leave. You are not being treated with respect because...

there is no reason to respect you. Your mother is not standing up for you, your stepfather is an asshole, and bluntly, you will just "take it" while they explain to you that you deserve it. Quit crying, pack up the kids, tell them to go to fucking hell, and go home. While your children might like grandma, the message they are receiving is that a) grandma doesn't respect you; b) grandpa doesn't respect you; and c) if they want to "fit in" with their extended family, they should be prepared to behave in the same fashion.

Sorry to be blunt, but this bullshit you do not need. Write them off with a smile on your face and a song in your heart -- she married him, she's going to stay married to him, and apparently SHE matters to YOU more than YOU matter to HER.

(Can you tell I've got some family issues of my own? :eyes:)

[Pachamama]

62. Hi Ida! That you? I know you been working hard these days

..exposing the truth....You go girl....

Believe me, Pachamama here was ready to pack the pachababies up and head to a hotel....they are young and were asleep, so I didn't but if he starts up with even one comment tommorrow, I will go to a hotel...Thankfully, the kids didn't witness this, but that doesn't mean they don't feel tension....

I feel so sad...angry too, but mostly sad....welcome to "W's" world...divided and angry....fear driven and driving wedges between all...

Canada is sounding better all the time, I got to admit....but I'm fighting for my country...I won't stop...

[NightTrain]

57. My late father and I used to argue a lot about political and social issues

But you know what? When I aggressively called him on the carpet about what I considered his more extreme positions, he almost always backed down. I guess dad figured it was better to lose an argument than his only son!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. I'd go to the beach & elsewhere on your own. Just sleep there.

Take your kids too - of course. Where are you located in Florida?

[Pachamama]

63. Cocoa, FL - Right along the water on the Indian River....

In my younger single, childless days, thats where I'd be...but the lil' pachababies are 10 mos and 4 yrs old, so its not the best idea, but I can atleast go to the front deck and look out on the water...

[Yupster]

65. My advice

Don't talk politics with relatives who don't agree with you.

When your step-father says something political, quickly reply with "did I tell you what little Susie did the other day?"

If he keeps going, stand next to your mom and say "did I tell you the cute thing that little Jimmy's teacher said about him last week?"

Most people don't want to act like ass-holes. When they realize they are, they'll back off.

He probably feels bad about the fight too, and your mother sure does.

Do your part to avoid more of them -- do more than your part.

And he has the right to watch Fox news in his own house without his guests making comments about it.

[salin]

87. had to do this with my bro

and when he didn't stop... I finally had to ask why he was treating me with contempt (his comments were a nonstop barrage of rightwing talk radio insults to liberals). He shut up, and actually appologized.

To your last comment - it rather depends if he has it on to be intentnionally provoking, or not. Given he set ground rules (no talking politics) and asks to be accommodated, it sounds like he is playing "set up."

I would think about a hotel. Then can spend limited time at the house and can go "home" at night in peace. AND the kids still get to spend time with their grandmother.

[RhodaGrits]

66. you are not helping me right now :-)

I have been for the last week agonizing over whether to go visit my mom right after thanksgiving like I have for the past few years. Mom and stepdad are living in gated golf community in NC. Mom and I have exchanged some nasty words about how I "need to let go of all this" and focus on something "more productive" and definitely not email her ANYTHING about politics. She was sounding a lot like barbara bush and her don't sully my beautiful mind mode. The icing on the cake is when I decided that I am fairly sure she voted for W. because she thought Theresa was too strident. (She won't tell me - which is telling.)

I am furious with her (and just about anyone that voted for Bush) and I am not going to "get over it". I am not at all sure I can be civil. Husband keeps saying she's your mother and she's 72. I said I can live with it... he's pushing for me to go. I just know I've got way too much rage built up and it won't take much for a blow-up.

Your story did NOT help make me more likely to head south :-)

Good luck to you. I don't know what to tell you to do because I don't know what I should do either. Principles or Family? Arguing family doesn't change the fact that her vote for Bush put my 2 teenage nephews in line for Iraq... that's family too. Husband says I can bite my tongue for a couple days. <sigh> Maybe if I take some Xanax LOL

[Pachamama]

73. Sorry :(

If I had known it would be like this, I wouldn't have come here...then again, I made the plans before the election and I was as sure of Kerry winning as I am that the earth is round, I just felt it in my soul....and had Kerry won (or atleast it been clear) then I never would have been "rubbing" it in my Stepfather's face or taunting him...

The thing that is so sad and hardest was the realization that this is what our country is moving towards and its only going to get worse...I mean granted, I'm not related to this man, but one would think that atleast when it comes to family, people would be kinder...guess not...it will eventually become like Nazi Germany where even family, friends, neighbors turn eachother in...sorry to be so fatalistic, but there are even people in this thread and others I've spoken to that have had family members calling them and gloating over Bush's win...

I guess you need to make a decision to go or not and just be prepared for the worst...

[Yupster]

80. Two things

1. Your mother is an adult. She has every right to vote for anyone she wants to without harrassment.

2. If she told you not to send her any political e-mails, then respect her wishes.

Honestly, I can't believe the stuff I'm reading here.

[RhodaGrits]

83. I did. I stopped the moment she asked me to.

You are right - she can vote for anyone she wants to without harassment. But I am ashamed and angry that my mother voted for Bush because she didn't like Theresa. I am probably not going to go because I wouldn't want anything to do with someone like that so why should it change because she is my mother? She moved south and is trying to fit in with her neighbors and she is becoming someone I don't want to know. She used to be a powerful executive in AT&T, an early feminist, and someone I was very proud of. Now she's taken to wearing a cross (she has never attended church since I was a small child), took a job as some local realtor's secretary because she can't afford to live on her pension and despite her great difficulty making do - thinks Bush will reduce her taxes and keep her safe.

She has a brain and she's chosen not to use it.

We speak almost every day about her dog and whatever she is doing. She doesn't ask about me or anything I am interested in. I'm so angry with her I don't think I can spend a few days being pleasant. Maybe next year.

[sadiesworld]

88. Considering that most of your posts would be better suited

to a different board, your disbelief is hardly surprising.

[Unforgiven]

67. You Are Not Alone

I have alienated myself from all of my family because of the way this country is headed and my political beliefs, and people I work with as well.
It seems my values and outlook are very much different from theirs.
It has myself and my wife at the point of liquidating everything we own here and going to some place in Europe that will have us.
I've already been where you are headed, only for me it started in 2000, I wish I had a simple and lasting answer for you, but I don't.
The bible prophesied father against son, brother against brother, maybe that's what it will come to.
The only hope I hold on to is proving massive vote fraud, but even then with both houses stacked and the courts as well.

Well.
You get the picture.
Don't look for miracles from your stepfather.
But it wouldn't hurt to pray!

[bumblebee1]

68. Freepers

My husband unfortunately doesn't pay too much attention to what is going on. He originally wanted to vote for Nader. I wish Nader would have been able to remain on the PA ballot. Like your step father, my husband is retired military (Navy). He liked neither Kerry or Bush. He voted for Bush. His reason: He didn't like what Kerry did to the military. I asked him if it was alright for Bush to use the military as his personal game of "Risk?" I got no answer on that one.

Pachamama- what a great sign on. Are you into collecting elephants?

[Pachamama]

72. Are you referring to my name Pachamama?

I chose that because years ago after leaving the corporate world and trying to figure myself out and "the meaning of life" (around the same time I went from being a Republican to a Democrat (so I guess you could say at one time I "collected Elephants" :) )but when I went into the Amazon and met with tribes such as the Achuar, Shuar and Huarharani tribes, the word for Mother Earth is Pachamama....they said at the time that the issue isn't the destruction of the planet, but rather the destruction of humans and humanity...they said Pachamama was here before humans and will be here after....

[bumblebee1]

82. Pachamama

Yes, I was. The reason I thought of elephants is because the scientific name for elephant is pachyderm.

[Cat Atomic]

70. Tell your stepdad to shut his socialist mouth.

No, not really- unless you want to have another huge fight, I mean.

But it works. I did that to my career Navy brother-in-law when he suggested I leave the country (in my own house, I might add), and it really sent his brain into a nosedive.

I told him "I don't want to hear a political lecture from some lifelong socialist, who's sucking the government tit and condemning big government at the same time. If you ever work up the nerve to try your hand at actually living in that free market you praise so much, I'll be interested in your perspective. Until then you're talking out of your ass".

Anybody can play the arrogant jack-ass (a fact that often catches full-time arrogant jack-asses off guard).

[Greylyn58]

71. I Feel For You

as my father(who was a Marine for 30 years) and my youngest brother both stupidly supported and then voted for Bush....and they are Dems which makes it worse for me.

Just before the elections on Oct 24th, while I was over visiting, I got in a shouting match with both of them. My brother first and then later with my Dad. I was so angry I left and went home just shaking. Since I took off so abruptly I called my Mom and apologized the next day and explained why. She said she had a feeling that was why I left. Dad said hello and I replied, but that was all I said to him as I was still so angry. I haven't visited them since and we live in the same city

I usually talk to Mom the day after elections as she is the Democratic Judge for her Precinct and since I live in a different part of town we talk about turn-out for our area. I couldn't talk to her right after this election as it was still so painful. Well after 3 days had passed she finally called me.

As we were talking, I heard Dad tell her to say hello for him and then he said - I heard him - "Tell her I love you!" I think it was his way of saying he was sorry for the fight. I'm not mad at him any more, but I still haven't been over. I'll see them this week for Thanksgiving.

It's so hard to be around Repugs or any people who voted for them, but when they are relatives it's even worse. So as I said at the beginning, I feel for you and hope you make it through.

Just remember you can always vent here since we're all in the same boat in one way or another.

:pals:

[Pachamama]

77. Thanks...sitting here tonite and having like minded DU pals

to sympathize, advise, give support and encouragement...

As a result, I haven't felt as lonely tonite here at the house while my kids slept and my husband gets to be in Exuma, Bahamas at a 5 star resort (4 Seasons Exuma) attending a friends wedding...I'm kicking myself for not going there instead...I thought traveling there with the kids wouldn't be fair to them and all I'd be doing would be childcare...got to admit, I sure wish I had gone now...the DU made tonite manageable...(and seeing U2 on SNL too) :)

[AgadorSparticus]

74. omg, i had just about the same scenario this year in my house with

my folks visiting. i have a kerry sign on my garage door and kerry sign on the windown next to the front door. no mistaking who i'm voting for. my dad kept turning on faux news and would sit there and watch it ALL damn day long. i don't even watch cable news and he's got that nasty shit on ALL day. my nerves were shot and i went off. to make a long story short, big fight, nasty comments made by everyone and we came up with a compromise:

1. if he wants to watch faux news, he can do it in the guest room where he is sleeping. but if he'd like to spend time with his daughter, then he is going to have to put faux on the shelf and watch something neutral like the sci fi channel (his other favorite channel).

2. when he is visiting i don't listen to air america. if i do, i do it in my room so that he isn't subjected to it.

3. when i visit him, he watches faux in his room and we watch Sci Fi in the family room. it extends to both houses.

So far, it works. as long as we don't approach politics, we are ok. every now and then, he will forget and start blabbering bush bullshit and i have to blatently redirect the conversation. if he persists, i pull a big dawg and tell him, "you don't want to go there, dad" and he gets it real quick.

just because you don't share the same politics doesn't mean that you give up on family. i know he is your stepfather, but i'm sure it would help your mom immensely if you guys could work out a nice compromise or working condition. best of luck to you. i know where you are coming from.

p.s. my other suggestion: MOVIES. lots and lots of movies. i know next week will be very interesting in millions of households with discussion heavily underway. good luck to everyone.

[Gloria]

75. This sounds exactly what I go through nearly everyday with

my mother. Exactly, right down to the damned TV blaring or the radio with Rush, Hannity, Savage etc blaring all day....

I swear, they've all become pod people.

We are in a terrible mess, people!!

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

76. They're not going to change...you're not going to change.

Just chalk it up to a draw.

JB

[anarchy1999]

78. Just for whatever it may be worth........

Take you and the kids and go home. Kiss your mom bye and say see you soon, I love you, I've got to go. We have to choose peace. This country is being divided like nothing I've ever seen before in my lifetime. I've read about the Civil War and the division within families, it is happening now. We humans just keep failing to learn from history.

You'll be okay, rent a car, get back on the plane, go home. Remove yourself and your young ones from toxins. It hurts alot at first, but then it gets better. I'm sorry for what you are going through. I own bought the T-shirts and I own more than one factory. It's tough, but you will be better for it. Just in my humble opinion.

[lwin]

81. My family & more

I feel your pain...boy do I ever. Luckily I live in a Blue State, but unfortunately in a freeper county. And I mean, seriously freeper.

Anyway, my sister is a Republican, but not religious one (actually we're both atheists...go figure) and she's not hardline on abortion. She is hardcore on the tax issue and some other items. Even she has said that she should probably join the Libertarian party. Anyway, she supported the entire Republican ticket and I, of course, worked my ass off for John Kerry for about 8 months (was for Edwards in the primary). Anyway, since we are both very into politics, there were more than a few "moments". During the course of the campaign, we actually had to trade off when we watched TV...30 minutes of Fox, 30 minutes of CNN. The last couple of months, we couldn't even really talk about it. (some local races, but not the main event) Anyway, after we lost *grrrrr*, I was really worried about how we were going to interact, because lets face it, I was bitter, furious, disappointed and frustrated to the nth degree. I didn't see her for a few days because frankly, my eyes were so puffy from crying, I wasn't leaving the house.

When we did get together, I steeled myself for the gloating, and luckily, she was pretty good. But over the following week, I couldn't hold it in. And the best thing that happened, which we should have done much earlier, was to get our snipes in (me...how could you let the right wing hijack your party...she...how could you let the left wing hijack yours). We said our bit, made fun of some local candidates on both sides, and the air is much clearer. I also told her how painful it was to lose this election for me, and she took the hint. Things have been much better.

Now with my sister, I needed to make peace. The bf is just about on my last nerve and starting to look expendable. And the freeper neighbors (on both sides of me with their Bush/Cheney signs)...fuck 'em...I stopped talking to their worthless asses several months ago. Even had a little petty revenge on one of them last week, but that's another story. I've taken note of which local and national businesses support Repubs and which ones support Dems or are neutral. I've managed to steer most of my spending towards Dems.

I in no way think you should keep your opinion to yourself...we all MUST speak out. Maybe you can have a sitdown with your family and get it out on the table. Both sides lay down some ground rules, keeping in mind that there are grandchildren. Hopefully they will realize that having you and their grandchildren in their lives, is more important than then being obnoxious to you. And then, for your own satisfaction, take your anger out on the worthless neighbors and businesses that support the shrub.

[NJ_Lib]

84. Pachamama, how is it going this morning?

You were in my thoughts and I was just wondering how everyhthing is going this morning?

Are you OK?

[RedSock]

85. i assume he hated clinton

did he live in canada from 1992-2000?

that's what i always say when idiots throw that shit at me.

(though i AM moving to canada!!)

[Pachamama]

91. Hi Jersey Girl!

Thanks for the kind wishes and thoughts...when I woke up this morning, I told my Mom how I felt and how upset I was..I told her that he doesn't have to agree with my opinions and politics, but he needs to be respectful of me...I told my Mom that I was going to go find a hotel to stay at and she begged me not to and that she would talk to him...I meanwhile took the kids to the zoo and when I returned my stepfather actually had all the TV's off and asked to talk to me...he said he was "sorry" and that they didn't want me to leave...He said that he'll keep the TV off and that he'll refrain from any comments that insult Kerry or the Dems and politics in general...we agreed to "disagree" and to not talk politics...but I said that he needs to accept my lapel pin of "Women for Kerry" - he agreed....Meanwhile, the day has gone fairly well, still some residual discomfort, but for the sake of the kids and my Mom, I'm "behaving", but clearly I'm on the DU now and I got to give the stubborn bastard credit for trying, I didn't think he had it in him...Who knows what Mom said, but it made a difference...no FAUX news...phew...So, I'm staying....for now... :hi:

[IdaBriggs]

93. YEAH! Sounds like you handled it PERFECTLY!!!

Just had to check on you -- seriously, I'm going to bed now because of the exhaustion (posted an update over in GD: Politics)! Three cheers for your wisdom AND spine! :) Best, Ida

[Pachamama]

95. Hey Ida! Saw your post about fighting!

You are so right on! I couldn't believe with all going on for you that you took the time to check in on me! Oh... :hug:

Seems like the women warriors are the ones with spines these days...

Anyway, get some sleep...I'm about to do the same...my 4 yr old just woke up and wants me to tuck her in...I'm going to check in with you tommorrow...I want to figure out how I can help in this fight...I'm ready...

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

103. Oi Pachamama

Tadinha! :hug:

[NJ_Lib]

105. Well, well, well... What do you know?

I have to be honest, while reading your update, I had tears in my eyes... Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? He actually said "I'm sorry"? Wow... Don't hear too many Repukes saying that... This man cares about you and the Pachababies... Regardless of his behavior... And your Mom, good for her, she stood her ground and "managed" her husband... I would say a perfect outcome to a very bad situation, for now... Hooray!!!

These people obviously care very much... It is worth putting in the effort to try to make this work... He may slip back into his old ways in the next few days but try to cut him some slack... I suspect this is an older man, past his prime, going through some life issues of his own... But the fact that he does care did not escape me here... And that is always a good start...

Hope the rest of the trip is bearable... And girrrrl.... Next time, GO TO THE BAHAMAS!!! :)

Please keep us posted... Good luck!

[Karenina]

89. BIG, BIG,

(((BIG HUG))) :hug: You're fabulous, respected and dearly loved by one who has never seen your face. :hug: You do exactly the right thing in each and every moment.

[Pachamama]

90. Awwww...thanks Karenina!

Seriously, I can't say how much yours and others comments here on the DU helped me handle the situation last night...

:hug: hugs back to you and other DUers I've gotten to know here...this place is a source of sanity in an insane time... :hi:

[anarchy1999]

99. Ditto, it's rough and going to get rougher. Families being pitted against

one another. We fail to learn from history, just a really sad fact. Maybe someday......

Stay away from poison. Sometimes it means staying away from family if for nothing else but your own sanity. "Family" is not always family in the traditional sense. Hang in there and once again, sorry for your pain in dealing with loved ones. We own a couple of the factories and can provide great deals in the T-shirts.

[judaspriestess]

94. sounds like viagra is not working for stepdads

limp noodle. typical republican pist about his penis therefore pist at the world.
Why don't you put some visine in his drink so he can get the shits from hell.
}(

[Cats Against Frist]

96. I'm really sorry, and I don't mean to sound cold

but I say you should cut the ties. No mercy. If someone treated me like that, I'd walk out. Besides, it's sound like he was egging you, and being an instigator, anyway. Have your mom travel somewhere and meet there.

I had the same situation with my dad -- the man even voted for John Kerry -- but he still is under the illusion that "our leaders will do right by us." It's just too much for him to deal with the idea that his long-held beliefs are a sham, and that shit doesn't always work out the way he thinks it's going to work out.

I'd cut the ties. Boycott the family. Boycott red companies. It's no mercy. Especially if he can't be talked to. The propagandamaestros of the right have fucked these people up so bad that they cannot be talked to.

[clarisse1956]

102. love my sister..but

don't feel that my husband and i (both huge kerry supporters) should have to spend our holidays with my sister's republican husband and all his republican extended family...so if she wants to see me she can come to my house without the riff-raff...

[Triana]

97. Leave...

...explain to your Mom (how the Hell can she be married to that guy?) why you're leaving, get your kids and get out of there. Arrange to visit with your Mom when "HE" isn't there.

If I were you, I wouldn't want my kids around that guy either - sorry.

[Sleepless In NY]

101. Please give this to your step dad

Good article, dispells alot of myths, especially about "republican morality" , Also dont ask, just write him a note & let him explain
why Rush's drug addiction & O'Reilly's filthy phone calls & bush's DWI's & grounding doesnt "offend" republican "morality" and "values" Good Luck!!


Walking the walk on family values
By William V. D'Antonio | October 31, 2004

PRESIDENT Bush and Vice President Cheney make reference to "Massachusetts liberals" as if they were referring to people with some kind of disease. I decided it was time to do some research on these people, and here is what I found.

The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while the rate for Texas was 4.1.

But don't take the US government's word for it. Take a look at the findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/10/31/walking_the_walk_on_family_values/

[Carolab]

104. Tell them you WILL leave

and take the kids with you. Tell them you don't want YOUR children exposed to the lies and filth being spread on FOX TV.

Then, DO it. LEAVE.