Please don't move to Canada!

[bri_in_austin]

At first, when I read all of the post election articles implying that more Americans than ever were interested in moving to Canada, I was thrilled! Canada is so much more free and liberal than us, what with their gay marriage, marijuana reform, and universal healthcare! I couldn't wait to hop on board! "Canada here I come!" was my motto before (if we lost) and after the election!

However, now that it's been a few weeks, and I have had time to process what has happened, I beg of you, PLEASE DON'T GO TO CANADA! We need you here! The election was close! Almost half of the country voted for Kerry. If 5% of those people were to go to Canada, then our chance of a democrat winning the next election would probably be shot.

Also, of those who want to go to Canada, probably a majority of them are very liberal and outspoken people who just can't take it over in the US anymore. But we need liberal outspoken people here to spend the next four years convincing the red state brainwashed people where they went wrong, and how they can change!

We also need you liberal outspoken ones (myself included) to continue to write letters and emails to our senators and representatives to keep them from allowing the right wingers to change the constitution preventing abortion, gay marriage, peace, etc.

So, in conclusion, PLEASE DON'T MOVE TO CANADA!!!

[PSU84]

1. Not many people will move.

It's not going to be a mass exodus or anything. And those who feel that strongly should do what they believe is right. I'm with you - I want to stay and fight for democracy and civil liberties here at home. We need people to speak ot for protecting the environment and preserving the Bill of Rights.

I'm very worried about Alberto Gonzalez as A.G. He has no respect for the United States Constitution. He clearly puts his personal loyalty to Bush above his oath to protect and defend the Constitution. He seems to come out of the tradtion that puts personal loyalty above loyalty to principles of law and justice. I fear he will do anything Bush wants and we may end up with a police state in 4 more years. Some of us have to stay and here and lay it on the line to make sure that does not happen.

Remember the old cigaret ads? (I bet you don't) "I'd rather fight than switch." That's me....

[notadmblnd]

2. As long as the elections are rigged

we will not get a democratic candidate elected. Right now the fight is to make sure there are honest verifiable elections not persuading more people to vote democratic. I worked the polls on election day and I saw the turnout. I also saw the methods employed to disenfranchise those voters. People do not turn out in the numbers they turned out in this past election because they were happy with what they had. Americans voted in record numbers for change and despite the turnout, that did not happen. Get off you knees and quit begging people not to leave the country. Get up and work to expose the fraud that was once again committed upon the American people.

[bri_in_austin]

5. Who said I wasn't fighting to "expose the fraud"?

This thread isn't about whether or not the elections were fraudulent, it's about people expatriating to Canada.

[notadmblnd]

6. I apoligise if I offended you

but this paragraph led me to believe you thought convincing more people to vote democratic was the solution to the problem.

"However, now that it's been a few weeks, and I have had time to process what has happened, I beg of you, PLEASE DON'T GO TO CANADA! We need you here! The election was close! Almost half of the country voted for Kerry. If 5% of those people were to go to Canada, then our chance of a democrat winning the next election would probably be shot."

People need to do what it is they have to do to protecxt their families. My family is contemplating moving to Mexico. I am not ready to go yet. I think there are more battles to be fought, but when it gets to the point where this killing for profit directly affects my son, we will leave this country.

[bri_in_austin]

8. I apologize.

You are right. When I spoke about getting more people to vote, it did imply that the majority didn't vote for Kerry.

However, if we are ever going to change anything about the system here, I do think we need to stay here. However, if you choose to leave after it continues to get worse. I think that is a valid choice and I continue to have thoughts of leaving as well.

I will continue to try to change things until I am convinced it is hopeless.

[Lorien]

3. You can write and vote from Canada

expats CAN vote, so that's not an issue. I'm still filling out the paperwork, but hope to move next spring (self employed, so it's a little easier for me).

When most people say "stay and fight" one has to wonder what, specifically, they mean. I write letters, I boycott, I march when there IS a march...but there's not many of those anymore :shrug: What EXACTLY does one mean when they say "stay and fight"?

[bri_in_austin]

4. Your letters will be meaningless from Canada!

Legislators only count the letters that come from registered voters in their constituency. They may write a letter back saying "thanks for your opinion". But don't kid yourself, they won't put a checkmark down for or against a bill next to the name of someone living in Canada!

[SoCalDem]

7. You send the letter from an address of a friend..mail it to them

and have them drop it in the mail :)

also.. Do we really "know" if the election was "close"?? That trick is easily used to send the perception that if we all only try a little harder next time....

Without paper, verifiable..and re-countable ballots, we will never know who won...regardless of the margin or victory or loss.

[Lorien]

40. Do they check up on you? Really, come on!

If you e-mail, they don't know where the hell you're from. I can always use old mail labels if I want to send them hard copy.

I have a friend who was rescued from a concentration camp in Germany as a ten year old. The rest of his family was murdered by the Nazis. He wishes they had all left when they had the chance.

[bri_in_austin]

41. Okay, now

yes, if you've ever worked in any legislature or in politics, you know that they DO CHECK. That's why they ask that you put your first and last name in the email and preferably your address.

Secondly, it is very moving about your friend, but as a Jew, I am insulted by your comparison of the US to Nazi Germany.

[The Zanti Regent]

9. This is 1937 Germany all over again.

The same stuff was said to my grandmother's family in Nazi Germany. Grandma and Great Grandpa were the only ones to leave. The rest decided to stay and fight.

They wound up in Dachau, Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz.

Fuck Jesusland. I want out. For now, I will work for the secession of California from Jesusland. When the Christian Re-education camps open, I'm gone!

[bri_in_austin]

10. Hey, I'm Jewish...I hear ya.

But I still have hope. I just don't think its time to give up yet, that's all.

[The Zanti Regent]

30. Jesusland is lost

The only good thing is that the Christians will not put Orthodox Jews in concentration camps this time. Thier book of fairy tales tells them that the Jews have to be sent back to Israel en masse before JAY-ZUSS returns. Of course a lot of us are going to get slaughtered in the process, but 144,000 of us will remain to kiss JAY-ZUSS's ass. That is what that acid trip disguised as Revelations alleges...

The sad thing is that this time, the Gays and Lesbians will be the real victims, rounded up and executed in the name of Jesus.

I shudder to think of innocent Muslims getting the Ann KKKolter treatment!

[shesemsmom]

11. I'm only going if they draft girls

then I'm taking my daughter the hell outta here. They aren't getting their hands on my kid. She is almost 16. So were are close. She will not sign up for the draft and has been told not to talk to recruiters. Others wise will stay here and kid some repuk butt,:bounce:

[UNIXcock]

12. I wouldn't worry, most people that threaten to move are all hot air anyway

... it's not easy, inexpensive or quick. It certainly is not the panacea to easy lifestyles either.

... I agree with you, stay and fight to save our own country first.

[shesemsmom]

14. I will have the money

if we have anything left in our 401 k. We were told on Tuesday we could get our money in as much as 4 weeks. I will open up the doors of this house and sell every thing in it and the bank can have the rest. I'm serious. If she can't get some exempt status, we will be gone. I don't want to do it but I will without hesitation. And no looking back.

[UNIXcock]

16. will you denounce your US citizenship?

n/t

[shesemsmom]

17. I don't know I have thought about that and

I don't know if I'm that strong. I love my country, but hate my leaders. The idea of giving up the fight almost rips my heart out. I hope I am not forced to make either decision:cry:

[Unforgiven]

20. With you on this

wife and I have already made arrangements to liquidate everything we own, sell the house and bolt. She has lineage in Scotland so it may be possible for us to immigrate there if things go badly here.
That's assuming we can get out. Hate the idea of being caught here and not be able to go.
So far I haven't seen much going in our favor, especially after the issue with Delay, all they have done is now make it legal for criminals to hold office. What's next do I dare ask?
If things go as planned we will be visiting Europe in early 2005, this won't be a vacation mind you, it will be an information gathering expedition to see what our options are.

[murray hill farm]

28. Do not give up your citizenship!

If you do, you give up your right to collect social security..which may not be there that much longer anyway, but you did earn it..and u did pay for it, so if you leave, please do not give that up. One thing i would like to say to all of you..please, please do apply for and get your passports NOW..these will become more and more difficult to obtain as time goes on..they are good for ten years..so even if you do not use it, you will have it if you do, at some point, want to leave in a hurry.

[Unforgiven]

34. Passports

got em´ also I understand that passports issued after feb 2005 will be chipped with all your personals and can be read at a distance of 25-30 feet away. My advise, get them now!
As soon as you possibly can as there is a waiting period for processing as long as a month.
DON´T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!


As far as giving up citizenship I am researching this and am looking for a immigration attorney locally that will see us. And like you I'm beginning to wonder if s/s will even be available?

[lawladyprof]

31. Depending on how far back that lineage is

Your wife might be able to get British citizenship by descent. I think she could do it with a Scottish grandparent.

[kerrywins]

25. Exactly....its real easy to talk tough

but another thing to act on it. I am certain that NO ONE here...not ONE PERSON will be moving.

[Jackie97]

13. I don't have direct plans to move to Canada....

and I probably won't move to Canada.

However, I've decided to see what the workforce up there has to offer. If I get an offer, there's a good chance I'm going.

I understand what you're saying about needing liberals here. The last thing I want is for a bunch of war hawks and fundamentalists to be the sole possessors of more WMDs than any country in the world. I don't think that most liberals will move to Canada though.

For the record, there were people who voted against Bush who were not liberal. My sister, father, and mother were three of them. I find it encouraging to know that even conservatives and moderates are fed up with the Republican party.

I think one of the primary reasons we couldn't get rid of Bush is because he's a war president. One "good reason" to vote Republican in the Congress along with a Republican president is to make sure they pass whatever Bush wants regarding national security. I think it's very possible that we'll get a Democratic president next time, especially if Bush messes up this country as bad as I think he will. If nothing else, he's going to really hurt economically. I've been reading about the value of our dollar going down and how our "tax cuts" are being made up for by the state and local government. No way in hell will Bush and the Republican party come out of this one looking good.

More good news is that the Republicans are currently arrogant, smug, and overconfident in light of this last election. I say this is a good thing because they now think that they've "won", and that the Democratic Party is as good as dead. I think that's great because this means that there's an increased chance of their dropping their guard in upcoming elections. That's what the liberals did over the yeras, and that was a mistake. Now, I think the conservatives are starting to do the same thing. Good. I say get them the same way they got us. Use their overconfidence to our advantage.

Perhaps we should even talk more to our Republican friends about how right they are about pretty much "winning" for all time. Let's sound accepting of our "permanent" defeat. Let's do what we can to make sure they don't wake up in time.

God I sound evil. lol.

[bri_in_austin]

22. Perhaps evil, but more like evil genius!

I like your thinking!

[mondo joe]

15. What makes anyone think Canada isn't next???

Not that I don't understand the desire to find a safe haven, but what makes anyone think the repigs will stop at the border?

As soon as they have the United States of Jesusland, Maxico and Canada are next.

[fujiyama]

18. You have a point

They don't need to invade neighboring countries but they can strongarm them nonetheless (trade, etc).

I also think the fundy movement is going international. I'm sure they'll do their best to stir up hatred of gays, Muslims, and just about anyone else in Canada and Mexico.

[bri_in_austin]

23. Yeah, and Fox News did just sign a contract to be on Canadian TV.

[AP]

27. The reasons people want to move to Canada are the reasons it won't be next

Canada is building up it's middle class, delivering wealth equitably and to those who work for it.

Obviously, when the pot of gold in the middle class gets big enough, the fascists will get organized and try to steal, just like they did in the US. But, if the groundwork is layed now, they won't be able to do it.

In any even, life is short and people should be entitled to living a life of social justice today. If Canada is where it's at right now, then people shouldn't suffer in poverty here today.

[murray hill farm]

32. Probably not Canada..

But Mexico, Central America and South America are already solidly on the list of "next"

[Comadreja]

19. Okay but I need to see a plan

I agree with the writer who points out that the Reptilicans got where they are because they dedicated themselves in a quasi-religious way to getting control of our government and worked at it every day for years,,,not in the disconnected, redundant, innefficient and haphazard way I've seen the Dems and allies go about it. I kept wondering all Summer as I posted flyers "Where the hell is the big registration drive they're hyping at the college?" for instance. Then, the last few weeks before election, everyone went into overdrive and Kerry literature came in by the truckloads...inpossible to use much of it by then. After an election, Dems drop the effort until the next one and go back to other interests. This is a WAR, amigos. The Reptilicans have made it so, like it or not, and they have a plan for victory that everyone folows, not a thousand different agendas.

[murray hill farm]

21. You can move out of USA and still be active.

You can vote, you can write letters (via your mail forwarding address in the usa..a must have if you are going to live outside the country..and remain active), democrats abroad is active in every country in the world..and no, do not give up your citizenship, but keep it as long as it has any advantage to you to keep..social security, etc....u earned it! The system no longer works and has become an illusion in the USA. The vote was stolen in 2000 and in 2004 and will be again in 2008. Voting no longer works to change what is happening in the USA. Until that system is corrected or is overthrown, u might as well save yourselves and your children from what is to come.

[AP]

24. I say do move to countries where you can realize the full value of your...

...labor. Move to countries where your work is rewarded. Don't be a captive market for unsupportable debt. Don't live where you can't sue people how harm you.

However, do keep voting in the US after you leave.

[Sabriel]

26. Here's a parallel:

My grandmother and her two brothers escaped Russian Georgia in 1912 after their parents were killed. Now, I'm fairly sure no one advised her to stay and fight, and even if they did, I'm glad she left.

Here's my take: part of my income, for which I work rather hard, goes to kill people who look just like my two children. Even if the neocons are removed from office, the US has a tendency to do stuff like that. I can't handle it anymore. The idea that I'm funding this inhumanity is ruining my life and mental health.

[haunce]

29. Canada

Very well said my friend:yourock: :toast:

[Dark]

33. Technically we could hold dual citizenship and still vote in the US.

[Cleita]

35. I'm staying, but my savings are moving to Canada.

I don't have a lifetime left to recoup my losses. I think everyone else should do the same.

[murray hill farm]

36. I agree...but

why did u pick canada?

[Cleita]

37. Close neighbors.

I need to study a lot about world currency before doing anything drastic. Since Canada's economy is stable it seems the right choice for now.

[murray hill farm]

38. Hope u will post what u find out!

I live in Mexico, as ya know..ha! I believe it is time to pull money and investments out of the US, but have not a clue as to where to go from there.

[Cleita]

39. It definitely is time.

I'm selling all my stock to pay off debts and moving whats left out, except for small amounts of emergency funds. Then DH and I will have to sit back and watch what happens.

[DrWeird]

42. Fuck this country.

Half of this country voting for Kerry is about 45% less than should be voting for Kerry. So to hell with the country and its people. There's nothing left worth fighting for anyway.