Economic boycot of red states

[secedeeconomically]

I just wanted to get some feed back from others out there on the feasibility of a complete boycott of any product grown or manufactured in a red state. I'm not just talking Florida OJ. I'm referring to anything that is produced or any company that has their world headquarter in a red state. For example; Dell PC (Texas), Toyota (which as a manufacturing company there), BMW (same as Toyota) and I’m sure there are many more that I can’t think of. I guess what I’m asking is, how realistic is such an endeavor and would it produce any changes?

[wtmusic]

1. In a word, no

Some "red" states were only red by a small margin. You want to: 1) penalize all the Democrats in those states 2) Piss off anyone else who was undecided?

[secedeeconomically]

6. The choice is yours my friend.

Ok then how long could you continue supporting a group of people that you feel are diametrically opposed to you? I mean if they consistently see issues 180 deg opposite from you what do you do? Do you just sit back and "hope" they will see it your way eventually. What you don’t seem to understand is that there are people out there, who want to radically transform America, into something that I for one don’t want it to become. So I guess we have 2 options. Sit on your hands and hope for the best, or stand up and shout "NO". The choice is yours my friend.

[wtmusic]

7. I'm not against action

I just think that option hurts more than it helps. Better: target corporations like Wal-Mart and Microsoft which not only contribute huge sums to the GOP but profit immensely on monopolistic and anti-union policies.

[Castilleja]

11. Finally, some voices of sanity

You need a nice broad brush to penalize an entire state for the voting of some individuals in the state. It is nasty, and seems ineffective. Aim it at the corporations who finance GOP with big money. Wherever you find the absolute root of the GOP, strike at that. I'm guessing that would be big support money. I am really glad to see this thread.

[secedeeconomically]

16. I guess I didn’t articulate my initial question well enough.

I don’t believe that just because I corporation gave money to the GOP they are necessarily bad. Corporations by nature and design are selfish and self-preserving entities. They will change in a New York minute if they felt it had an impact on their bottom line. I guess I didn’t articulate my initial question well enough. When I referred to red states I was more talking about the religious right and not some multinational that wants to safe a few percents on taxes (Sinclair Broadcasting excluded). What I want to attack if the religious right of this country and what better way than deprive them of any blue dollars.

[southlandshari]

35. Collective punishment

just pushes those that would have or could have seen things "your way" towards the other side.

I guess on the upside, then you self-righteous, high-and-mighty, "fuck the red states" posters could then be alone in your principles without the rest of the magically diverse population of the world around to muddy up your pedestal.

[rinsd]

58. Logic 101....

In a country where the blue/red ratio at its very extreme is probably 60-40 either way, you have a ton of people from each side in the same labeled state.

By supporting so called Blue States, you are likely to put money in the coffers of Red voters while at the opposite end you may be depriving Blue voters from your dollars.

The boycott of specific companies that gave money to, support etc Republicans is a much better idea.

[lgardengate]

102. It will Not change minds or force them to bow to our will..

What it will do (if they know it's happening and why) is to cause such hate between "us" and "them" that dems and repubs will end up fighting like those idoits on the basketball court.
You can't grab people by the neck and force them to bow to your will without expecting them to hit back just as hard.
They believe in there issues as much as us.

Flame away.

[donheld]

113. Also some of the blue states

were barely blue

[Fovea]

2. Rather than geographical

why not assemble a list of heavy Bush contributors, and boycott their companies. That way you don't punish a purple state, but a red company.

[kayell]

40. This is exactly the way to do it, and people are doing it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

http://www.globalblogs.com/progressivepages/index.html
A database being built by DUers and other interested people

http://www.opensecrets.org to find how and to who companies donate.

http://www.boycottbush.net
More companies to target

[genieroze]

65. Cool from that boycott site I found a FREE office suite

http://download.openoffice.org/1.1.3/index.html
Byte me Microsloft, your crap crashes all the time anyway

[secedeeconomically]

74. linux good MS bad

I agree however I wont ban Microsoft because Gates gave a few nickels to the GOP. He just wants the fed off his ass.

[Dr.Phool]

3. Well

Although it's not officially red yet, I'll be damned if I buy any fucking Buckeyes! Worthless nuts!

Problem is, I live in Florida.

[silverlib]

4. Not hardley

Democrats in red states are having a hard enough time with the "natural" economic downturn without help like this from compatriots.

[LuminousX]

5. How will this convince them to vote Democratic?

Extortion is bad, mmmkay.

[secedeeconomically]

10. What this country needs is an enema not appeasement.

This isn’t about changing minds, because that will never happen. A rotting fish will always smell bad, no matter how much perfume you use. I have no desire to change people, in my opinion they are lost. What this country needs is an enema not appeasement.

[Castilleja]

13. The regular people in any state

you boycott will not get this message. Even if they were to understand, they would be motivated to return the favor and boycott a "blue" state. What good will that do, pitting people against each other, when they are not the crux of the power you are trying to fight?

[secedeeconomically]

18. Of course they are

America is the sum of its people. We are all the "crux" of the problem and solution. I realize that my opinion isn’t very popular. However, how long can you get slapped in the face and turn the other cheek and say the I love you? Its time to take a stand and slap back.

[southlandshari]

37. Just make sure your aim is true

Slap the right people. Don't be sloppy and punch out your own teammates. That is all many of us are trying to say here.

Think individuals. Think companies. Think political voting blocs. But to punish entire states is just simplistic beyond belief.

[havocmom]

8. Great plan! We ALMOST have the Southwest & Mountain West in our

column as it is. Instead of working a bit harder to get our message out there, let's treat 'em like Cuba! That'll move 'em in our direction!
NOT

If you have anger which needs direction, aim it a corporations, not food producing rural people. Meanwhile, those of us in Red States who also elected DEMS will keep working on defining ourselves instead of letting RW pundits do it for us. We don't need anything that fuels RW claims that DEMS are elitist to make our road any tougher.

[Dr.Phool]

9. Here's a partial list

I picked up at a meeting Saturday.

It supposedly came from www.commoncause.org , but I can't find it there.

Big money Bush supporters.

Walmart, Home Depot, Ford, Staples, Anheuser Busch, Bank of America, Wachovia, Hallmark Cards, Blue Cross, Phizer, Bristol Myers, Bayer, Lykes Brothers, Safeway foods, Dole Foods, Kraft, Nestle, Fed-ex, MBNA, Chiquita, Clear Channel, Time Warner, AMWAY, Bellsouth, Verizon, Chevron, Disney, Nabisco, GE, Maxwell House, Jello, Oscar Meyer AOL Exxon, Amoco etc.....

[secedeeconomically]

12. Corporations are whores for the most part and very fair weathered.

Corporations are whores for the most part and very fair weathered. Meaning they aren’t tied to any ideology for the most part. It’s all about the next quarter. Therefore, they will dump a state in a heartbeat if they feel it’s no economically feasible to operate there. What I’m talking about is the bible thumping bible state sort. Those you will never change.

[NikolaTeslaRocks]

15. I wish you were wrong

"Corporations are whores for the most part and very fair weathered. Meaning they aren’t tied to any ideology for the most part. It’s all about the next quarter. Therefore, they will dump a state in a heartbeat if they feel it’s no economically feasible to operate there. What I’m talking about is the bible thumping bible state sort. Those you will never change"


I live in one of those very red states and in the heart of the Bible Belt. There are some that dont buy into Bush and all his crapola but the majority will not budge until they have hungry kids and no food to feed them. They are brainwashed for the most part at least in my state.Funny thing is I have family from the north that came here and they are worse than the ones that were born here. I can only speak for the people here as I dont know what they are like in neighboring states.

[kick-ass-bob]

43. You mean like NC?

Where the state house and senate are Dem controlled? and run by a Dem governor? And a mostly Dem council of state?

Give me a fucking break.

[secedeeconomically]

64. Zell Miller is a Dem

No all Dems are the same. Regardless I’m talking at the individual level. Who people vote for is almost irrelevant in the context of my argument.

[cyn2]

25. And, Dell n/t

[secedeeconomically]

28. I just added Dell really because they are pieces of shit lol

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Not feasible. We're all red-staters now.

If you want to boycott, start with red companies. I don't know how much effect it can have -- my bank uses Diebold ATMs, and I don't offhand know any that doesn't, so I'm not about to change banks -- but it might be worth researching.

OTOH, I never darken the doors of Wal-Mart. I'm sure they miss me.

[greenohio]

17. Thats what Ohio needs right now, a boycott.

If word got out that we were boycotting OH, I think it might backfire.

[secedeeconomically]

22. Ok then how about just city by city?

Ok then maybe not a whole state, but rather a red county or city or town. Regardless, what I want to boycott is religious extremist and in hindsight they might exist in blue states as well. Recently a Pennsylvania school board passed a rule mandating that creationism be taught next to evolution. I would have no qualms in boycotting that county.

[greenohio]

23. Welcome to DU

Thats a lot better.

[bloom]

49. Sounds like maybe you missed seeing these maps.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/

Scroll down to the one by:
Robert Vanderbei at Princeton University



It's not as black and white (or red and blue) as you think. Oregon has plenty of red, also.


I don't know what you expect to accomplish - besides annoying some "red-state" people on DU - you probably won't do much.

[CBGLuthier]

19. When my family and I are living on the streets

Well, I won't have a computer then to thank you for your boycott now will I.

[datasuspect]

20. what if you buy a bottle of pop

and the corn syrup comes from louisiana, but the other components are made in illinois and it is bottled in new york?

you can't blame a whole state for the actions of a minority of people. of people who actually voted, most of those states were nearly 50/50. that doesn't include the people who didn't vote or who aren't allowed to vote.

in other words, not a realistic endeavor

[secedeeconomically]

26. I agree in hindsight

That is why I value the opinions of everyone in this board, it keeps me in check. However, religious fanatics also need to be kept in check in this country. And wishing it away won’t work. We can hope for the best but history has taught as one thing. Fanatic’s only changes by the barrel of a gun ask the Taliban that. I’m not saying to use violence, but rather economic isolation

[Bridget Burke]

21. You're not going nearly far enough, comrade

About half your state is pretty damn red. Better watch what you buy in the produce section...

[secedeeconomically]

27. I’m not worried about Oregon.

I’m not worried about Oregon. Majority of Oregonians live around the Portland area, a very progressive area. The rest is high desert, in other words empty. Which the GOP can have as their base lol.

[Bridget Burke]

34. If you knew anything about the geography of the USA

And population distribution, you'd realize that the majority of the "red" areas are also areas of low population density.

Why does Oregon have so much more red than California & Washington?

And if you're such a greate Democrat, why didn't you bother to join until after election day?

[secedeeconomically]

68. You miss my point again

Firstly; I don’t have a problems with republicans in general. Therefore, if someone wants to vote GOP that’s fine with me. My problem is with the religions fanatic be it either on the right or the left. My fight isn’t with someone who wants to change the tax code so he can shave 0.35% from his/her tax rate. It’s with the guys who wont stop at anything until his/her beliefs are taught in schools and wants to control what you do in the privacy of your home.
Second: if the way one reaches greatness is by when he/she joined DU then the creator of this sight is on a par with fucking Buda. I joined DU when I first learned about it, which happened to be after the election. Of course I hope that is ok with you?

[hyphenate]

24. I couldn't do it

Too many people I know and care about happen to be in those red states--Alabama, Florida, Colorado, Utah and Nevada. It's not judicious to punish all the people regardless of how the overall state might have gone. In places like Colorado, Nevada and Florida, there has been already shown that there was voter fraud, but it's not possible to prove it in all the different states.

The best way to "boycott" is to look at some place like OpenSecrets.org, and look for corporations ONLY that contributed large amounts to the Repuke party. You won't be punishing the whole state, and by only targeting businesses which help fund pukes, you are doing a more specific boycott that won't hurt everyone.

[secedeeconomically]

30. You miss my point

I don’t believe corporations are what’s wrong with this country. What’s wrong with this country is religious fanatics. What I’m asking is how does one secede from them?

[CAcyclist]

130. Without the corporate power in the repub

party, the religious fanatics would just be entertainment for the rest of us. The religious fanatics may be on the front page, but they are not making policy - corporate big wigs are. It's the corporations we need to focus on.

Having said that, I have such a visceral adversion to anything Floridian or Texan right now, that any corporate product from those states will get my boycott. Regardless of what good it will do - it makes me feel better.

I'm also considering changing my phone service from SBC to something else - I just don't know what else is out there (I already use Working Assets for my long-distance)

[DencoDeeger]

29. What?

Why on earth would you want to do that....

1) It's not very democratic to boycott a group of people simply because they disagree with you.

2) Why punish all the hard working dems in those states trying to turn the blue.

3) Such an action would only further alienate people we are trying to bring into the fold. How does that help our cause?

Pretty much a bad idea and no way would I ever even consider participating in such a boycott.

[secedeeconomically]

31. Would you purchase goods from North Korea ?

Would you purchase goods from North Korea if given the option? Would you vacation in the beautiful Germany during Hitler rein? What would you do to persuade a group of people that you are completely wrong and misguided? Are you the type of person that has arguments with the wall? With the hopes that the wall will talk back?

[DencoDeeger]

32. Ok, I'll bite...

"Would you purchase goods from North Korea if given the option?"

Probably, yes, if given the option and they were fair trade products.

"Would you vacation in the beautiful Germany during Hitler rein?"

Of course not. But mostly because they would have sent me to a concentration camp.

"What would you do to persuade a group of people that you are completely wrong and misguided?"

Why would I want to persuade people that I am wrong and misguided. Seems that I would want to do just the opposite.

"Are you the type of person that has arguments with the wall? With the hopes that the wall will talk back?"

Not since I got my meds adjusted.

[secedeeconomically]

33. What we have here is a failure to communicate

So what you are saying is that you have no problem dealing with people that want to take this country down a different road that you do? Well my friend you sound like a sheep and we all know what happens to them eventually.

[CBGLuthier]

36. You are comparing red states to Nazi Germany and N. Korea

The mind just boggles at the utter ludicrousness of that statement.

In fact, even without invoking Godwin's law, your opinions have just become totally irelevant.

[secedeeconomically]

69. Its called making a point

[CBGLuthier]

98. the only point you made

Is that you are prone to hyperbole.

I live in a red state. As far as I am concerned. YOU are the enemy as much as Bush is.

[GoBlue]

38. Based on the feedback you're getting

As of 2:45 pm EST, 11-22-2004, most folks don't believe that this country is in the midst of a civil war.

I guess it will have to get worse before the blues get serious.

[kick-ass-bob]

44. A civil war?

If so, it isn't divided by state lines. So don't turn it into one.

[secedeeconomically]

53. Just proves my point

We are living in the land of the sheep. Where everyone wants to sit around a camp fire and sing songs. HELLO EARTH TO PLANET LEFT. wake up

[OnionPatch]

39. Don't boycott red states

in a general way. This will not really achieve anything and will hurt innocent people in those states.

Boycott companies who:
1. Contribute heavily to GOP
2. Go against our (blue) values in their business practices by polluting, not being fair to workers, outsourcing jobs for profit, etc.

Those who say it's not fair to boycott them, sorry, this isn't a game anymore. This is war. And I know that the conservatives see it as war too....In case you haven't noticed, the conservatives urge their own base to boycott anything and everything that rubs them the wrong way They do and are loud about it and they get results. Why we don't do it, and haven't been doing it is just another example of poor leadership and organization on our part.

The goal is to show that we are not going to be mindless sheep consumers. That doing business in a fair manner really DOES matter to consumers. That what they do IS being watched. Also, in principle, I do not want my money going to any businesses that are totally opposed to my beliefs and supporting efforts to defeat them. Also, when you don't buy their crap, you end up buying stuff from people who ARE fair and deserve your business a whole lot more. It's all good.

[kayell]

41. Exactly. Target the companies. Get started here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

http://www.globalblogs.com/progressivepages/index.html
A database being built by DUers and other interested people

http://www.opensecrets.org to find how and to who companies donate.

http://www.boycottbush.net
More companies to target

[UNIXcock]

42. Agreed, it's completely asinine and it won't work

... we're not red states and blue states, we're United States

[secedeeconomically]

47. Wrong way to tackle the issue

Your premise that companies that contribute heavily GOP are bad and I assume by your statement that companies that give to the Dems are good is completely simplistic and misguided. Corporations are only out to earn a profit plain and simple and they will do what ever it takes to meet those ends. I can relate to that, I am a small business owner. The war isn’t against corporation for the most part (the Sinclair Broadcasting excluded) but against the individual religious fanatic. The fanatic who wants to have a hand on how your child is educated. Who wants to impose his/her ideology onto you? Corporations don’t have ideological beds for the most part because if they do, the market will slap them back into reality. It’s the zealots that can’t be slapped back. Those are the once you need to attack. If that means isolating a state, then that life. Or maybe a city is more practical, or even a county. What ever it takes to isolate them my capital.

[Bridget Burke]

48. Boycott corporations where possible.

But don't "isolate" people. Engage them, argue with them, oppose them if necessary.

And work on your English usage: "If that means isolating a state, then that life. Or maybe a city is more practical, or even a county. What ever it takes to isolate them my capital." Wha?

[secedeeconomically]

51. I didn’t realize this was English 101

Excuse my poor usage of the English language. I didn’t have the luxury of being born here as you most likely did. And in the future stick to the topic asshole.

[VaYallaDawg]

45. I hope people don't start thinking like this.

I live in a red state but I'm about as blue as they come, and have lots of blue friends too. We're all Americans and an economic boycott hurts every one of us. The ones most insulated from an impact like that are rich repubs who don't give a damn whether you buy their products/services or not - they own the Govt so they can damn well make up any losses with Govt contracts. Think about who you're trying to punish.

[kayell]

46. Target the companies that donate to repukes and thrive from

the favoritism that is shown to them by repuke legislators. Think of what we did to Sinclair. It can be done. See my posts above on how to cut into the red COMPANIES profits.

[secedeeconomically]

50. I know exactly whom I want to punish

They are called the religious right. They are the ones who will ruin this country if left unchecked. If anyone remembers the first terminator movie (yes the good one where Arnold didn’t talk much lol). Well that guy who was sent back to try to protect that woman (sorry the names escape me at the moment), at one point in the movie he is telling her that the terminator cant be stopped, wont listen to reason, you can negotiate with it. I will paraphrase it will come until it kills you". And that my friends, is the religious right. Open your eyes they wont stop until they control every state. So you can sit back in your little comfy cube at work or at home and espouse words on cooperation and brotherhood. But reality is that they will come and destroy you.

[kayell]

52. So look for how to target them, not just "red staters"

Target the pug companies who are robbing us blind and supporting the "christo"-fascists with their profits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

http://www.globalblogs.com/progressivepages/index.html
A database being built by DUers and other interested people

http://www.opensecrets.org to find how and to who companies donate.

http://www.boycottbush.net
More companies to target

[secedeeconomically]

55. I don’t believe corporations are the problem

Maybe boycott is the wrong word or approach. One boycotts an entity in order to force a result. I don’t see that happened with the religious right. You cannot negotiate ideology.

[kayell]

56. Who said negotiate with them. Starve them.

Starve the pug companies that support the regime that makes the rw ideology into public policy

[secedeeconomically]

60. I just don’t believe it will have any affect on the core problem

The problem isn’t whether Wal-mart gave more to the GOP than the DNC, its that school board that is teaching your child that God made Adam and Eve right before its forced to teach real science.

[southlandshari]

54. Re-title the thread, if possible

to "economic boycott the religious right" - most, if not all DUers would be right there with you! I know I would.

I know many who live in "blue" states think that those of us living in "red" states are being overly sensitive on this issue. But language is a powerful thing. And I think Democrats should at the very least make the effort to clearly identify the target of any strategy we employ to turn things around in this country.

I know you didn't mean to disregard the millions of us in "red" states that worked for and voted for the Kerry-Edwards ticket. Hundreds have made the same generalizations on this board since Nov. 2, and hundreds more will continue to stubbornly use the "red state-blue state" division here. It may make them feel somehow superior, but statements and actions that target entire states send the wrong message and do nothing to move us all forward.

[secedeeconomically]

57. I thank you all for correctly refocusing my cannon lol

You are right. I have many friends in Re d states and they are very good people. My focus is with these bible-thumping fucks (or BTF’s lol) that have taken over the GOP.

[southlandshari]

59. Now you're talking my language!!

I'm a native Alabamian and am surrounded by those about whom you speak. I am interested in any and all ideas on how to reverse the inroads the far right-wing fundamentalists have gained politically in recent years.

See how easy that was? Thank you so much for your willingness to listen and respond to those who expressed some disagreement with your initial post. In the end we actually agree and can now get on to the important work of taking our communities, our states and our country back!!

=)

[secedeeconomically]

63. How do we win this fight?

I've been married for 5 years, I’m used to having someone constantly disagree with me lol.

[CAcyclist]

131. Life Isn't A Terminator Movie

You should get out more often. Get some fresh air.

[MadHound]

61. Not a bright idea friend

You would be damning your liberal brothers and sisters in those states to hell. Many states went for Bush by a very small margin, consigning the whole state to the trash heap is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In addition, taking your example of Toyota in TX, you would be harming the very companies that are trying to restore sanity to our society. Toyota makes the Prius, and is on the cutting edge of hybrid car manufacturing. You wish to deprive our enviroment of one of the few bright spots just out of a fit of spite? Mother Nature certainly won't be thanking you.

Instead of boycotting the states that went for Bush, boycott the companies that went for Bush, you know, WalMart, Microsoft, virtually all of the oil companies, and virtually all of the entertainment and media broadcasters in the economy, people like CBSNBCABCFOXCNN etc. etc. No more TV for you. That would be much more effective than a geographic boycott, and would bring about better results. Painting with a broad brush boycott is not a good idea, for it is less effective, and will alienate the support of the very groups that you need for the next election.

[secedeeconomically]

70. I dont belive that will work

When I was referring to Toyota, I meant not buying the car that they actually make in a red state. The prius isn’t made in the US. At least I don’t think so.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

62. I think we have to zero in on an area, corporation, product or state....

If we have an effect on a specific state - then others will take not. This is too broad a category to be effective.

Choose a company that also happens to give a large amount to the Repubs. The worst of the worst.

[secedeeconomically]

71. Ok then what?

What will that do?

[DuaneBidoux]

66. Dell's a good company to boycott in any state. Major Repug Contributor

I'm from Houston, and I say more power to you except personally I think it will take more than that. I think we need something along the lines of national strike. You can't selectively hurt just "blue" or just "red." Pain is pain, and we may well have to make the patient (the American economy) severly ill to get rid of the tumor (the Repukes). I'm in favor of cutting back radically on all spending. Cut back on everything, buy foreign (preferably products from countries that didn't lick Shrubs boots on Iraq), when you have to buy, buy blue companies in Red states and buy blue companies in blue states. But helping fertilize the economic seeds of shit that Bush has planted is pretty much going to require a buck (sp? not a hunter) shot approach.

[secedeeconomically]

73. Now we are talking.

I very much believe we need to support progressives wherever they might reside. However, the religious right seems to have solid hold on many of those states.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

67. Walmart = Abortions

I saw this connection made on another blog (did not personally check these facts, but if true it makes a great connection)

In order to put the Walmart boycott right in the face of the evangelical Bush supporters:

Walmart is the #1 importer from China

China is the #1 country of government sponsored abortions

Therefore, buying Walmart is supporting abortion.

[secedeeconomically]

75. Now im lost

Ok by I really like Chinese food, where does that put me lolol.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

77. Do you get your Chinese food directly from China?

Walmart imports from the #1 abortion country. Let the right wingers put their money where their morals are by supporting a boycott of Walmart.

Walmart was a huge contributer to Bush/GOP as were the entire Walton family.

[secedeeconomically]

78. I was joking

You are assuming you can reason with these people and that is incorrect. Besides what isn’t made in china these days?

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

80. You're right

No rational thought processes could have reelected Dubya.

I still hate Walmart, though...they wouldn't notice any difference if I don't shop there, unfortunately.

[Lorien]

72. We have an entire forum devoted to Boycotting and

Progressive (simple, pro-blue) living HERE:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

[secedeeconomically]

76. I'm not sure Boycott would solve anything

[kayell]

81. Wait a minute. You started the thread with a call to boycott red states

as a whole. Now some of us suggest more targeted boycotts of the actual corporations that do damage and you aren't sure boycotts will solve anything? Hunh??

By the way, there are still plenty of things made in the US, by responsible companies that support dems and democratic values. There are imports that are available from companies that practice fair trade. Many of these are listed over in the links that Lorien and I have given you.

What do you think will work?

[secedeeconomically]

82. Well sue me I’m a ration progressive

I started with a theory, and I’ve come to the conclusion that some of my initial ideas where incorrect. Therefore, I’ve changed my opinion somewhat.

[kayell]

84. Yes, some of your original ideas were wrong, and you admitted that and

that is a very good thing. It is hard to admit a mistake, and takes courage to revise and correct. But I am concerned that you have thrown out the germ of a very good idea that was contained within the less good idea. How about taking a quick look at the Economic Activism and Progressive Living Group at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255 and at the Progressive Pages at http://www.globalblogs.com/progressivepages/index.html and see what you think.

[Lorien]

85. And doing nothing while giving your cash to those that

control you gets you WHERE?

By spending your money (which represents your time here on earth) on republican products and services you are passivly allowing them own you and control the Nation for decades to come. Let them send our jobs overseas while they raise prices and interest rates. Let them take away our healthcare for corporate profits. Let them destroy our environment while screaming "CONSUME, DAMMIT! YOU ARE NO LONGER CITIZENS, YOU ARE AMERICAN CONSUMERS"! But don't whine; you are PAYING for fascist America to do exactly what it's doing!

Every purchase ha a price beyond it's retail value. You can pay for a future with hope by buying Progressive, or you can wish more of the same on all of us by buying whatever is cheap and available at the local Wal-Mart.



"Not buying it" is the most subversive act in America.

[Selwynn]

79. There are no "red states" - and I don't support things that hurt people

There are states with republcians and democrats in a nation deeply divided. We live in a purple America. Even here in Idaho, there is more blue voice and opposition than any time before in my ten years here.

Some kind of boycott that ultimately costs regular Americans their jobs, many of them "blue" for no other reason that that the happy to live someplace you don't like doesn't feel like a moral philosophy I'll choose to support.

[secedeeconomically]

83. So whats your solution

Stand around an sing songs?

[southlandshari]

86. What happened?

I thought we were on the same page here. Selwynn just made the same point I've been trying to make that there is no gain to be made by punishing entire states of people. Am I missing something?

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

88. Is there really any purple in Utah?

I've never seen a Utah Dem, do they exist? Doubt I'll be skiing in Snowbird this year.

[southlandshari]

91. Dunno

Since I live in Alabama (where there are reds, blues and all shades of purple).

[secedeeconomically]

93. Not many Dems but a shit load of Mormons

[JanMichael]

100. There are "Blue" people everywhere, even Utah with 26% voting Kerry.

http://www.electionresults.utah.gov/

Better maps...

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/

[secedeeconomically]

103. mmm nice you sure you can post there kind of pics here lol

I mean that is a spitting image of my high school friend in a bikini lol

[JanMichael]

108. I am sure that s/he was a nice person!

Odd looking, but nice.

[secedeeconomically]

89. I agree but you need to offer a course of action

[southlandshari]

90. Why?

I think I actually said I was LOOKING for suggestions on how to move forward against the religious right in my post celebrating the fact that we got language aside and were able to agree that action was needed.

[secedeeconomically]

95. I’m sorry I’m just too busy ranting lol

No seriously the best way to kill the beast is to stop feeding it. That way they will disperse and hopefully assimilate into the greater saner society. Basically make living in the Bible belt difficult, I guess that was my original point. How do we as progressives individuals be it either from a blue or red, how do we make these people mater less and less. How do we fight this tied that is constantly inundating us?

[Lorien]

87. Long term pain vs. the short term

If we continue on the current path, the American worker-all of us-will be in very bad shape indeed. I'm willing to risk my job, my home, ANYTHING to take my country back!

[secedeeconomically]

92. lol have you ever had one of those days

Those days where you think everyone is against you lol. I'm having one today. I cannot be the only person here who wants to take concrete actions to attack the religious right. I mean corporations are the issues per say.

[southlandshari]

97. Please don't think that!

I know I've been taking you to task on the issue of generalizing red and blue state residents, but please know that I, for one, am not against you at all.

I want to attack the religious right! I just don't have all the answers. But I'm with you, and so are most here at DU, I believe. Didn't mean to make you feel under attack with my soapbox issue of the vilification of red staters.

=)

[secedeeconomically]

99. Thanks its not the first time I’ve gone against the popular thinking

The best ways to go after the religious right is to have them scatter. They have to be made to pay a huge price to continue propagating their ideology. As the cost rises, as a group they will start to loose members of the flock move due to economic reasons. That starts by attacking the cells. If I start sounding like a nut ball please stop me lolol.

[Nicole]

119. those of us in red states have those days everyday

since the election. We can't come to DU without seeing some red state bashing somewhere here.

Consider yourself lucky you are only having that kind of day today.


Focus on the red companies, not the red states.

[Selwynn]

124. Logical fallacy.

Just because we don't accept that boycotting "red states" is a good idea doesn't mean we don't want to attack the religious right. It simply means we think that idea sucks.

I would prefer to focus on proactive grassroots change, including becoming a vocal name in the community by writing articles, coordinating with local non-profit groups and volunteering, eventually establishing opportunities to speak through sponsored events. I'd like to support grassroot movements to get progressive thinkers elected to local school boards and city councils because that's where it all begins. And even here right here in Idaho - it can work and has worked. Then we band together with these people and continue to hold public open houses, meetings, events - using every opportunity to share our perspective and articulate our message. Then I want to continue working right now in 2004, for the 2006 state elections. You change the grassroots first, you change the heartland, you change cities and counties and eventually you turn public opinion in a new direction. Idaho wasn't always a republican dominated state, there is nothing to stop it from changing one again except hard work and dedication.

I have been and will continue to do that kind of work. But I'm not going to boycott companies simply because of what state they are in. That is insulting to the many many many many people in so-called "red" states who are democrats, and ineffectively and unfairly penalizes the wrong people in the name of "activism."

Sel

[JanMichael]

94. This Red/Blue "State" thing has to go. If anything it's Urban v.....

...Rural/Suburbs(Split)/Exurbs.

This "split" stuff dwarfs the artificial lines in the sand called "states".

[secedeeconomically]

96. I agree completely

[Qanisqineq]

101. Never, in fact I am buying more stuff from a red state

I plan on buying most, if not all, of my Christmas presents from small businesses in my homestate of North Dakota. They are mostly products like natural soaps and lotions and some are home decor made from wheat,etc. grown in ND and any other things I can find.

When I go there to visit my parents every year, my husband and I will stock up on as much pasta and other nonperishable, ND-grown/made food as we can just like we do every year.

My dad is a wheat, sunflower, corn, oats, and barley farmer. I support the ND farmers whenever I get the chance. I don't care who they voted for, I know how difficult it is for the small farmer. Plus, I know how ND loses people to jobs elsewhere, therefore I buy products produced there.

Edit: Apparently I cannot spell the word "in"

[secedeeconomically]

104. Hold on, there are actualy people living in ND?

[Qanisqineq]

107. funny

Not. Yeah, more than live in Wyoming or Vermont.

2000 US Census
North Dakota: 642,200
Vermont: 608,827
Wyoming: 493,782

http://geography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/tab05.txt

[secedeeconomically]

109. I've driven through Wyoming and you aint kidding

There is nothing there. That explains how Cheney could posibly win an election

[foreigncorrespondent]

105. Won't work!

If you did that, then all you are doing is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Regardless of the colours, you need to remember that a lot of people in the red states are still true blue democrats. Why take an election out on them, when they tried their hardest? It isn't their fault the election was stolen now is it?

If you want to boycott then join the team who is putting together The Progressive Pages. That is a Web site which is currently being filled by both businesses who support the Dems and buisnesses that support the repukes. That way you can boycott companies that supported Bush*. This way, Democrats in red states won't suffer by the results of negligent boycotts

If you want to learn more about this boycott then visit the following thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=255x464

Hope to see you seriously think about this.

On edit: I thought I would add the link to The Progressive Pages as well as tell you that Sapphocrat has kindly donated server space and her time to put the site together.

Direct link is: http://www.globalblogs.com/progressivepages/index.html

[secedeeconomically]

106. Most company’s hedge there bets unfortunately

[foreigncorrespondent]

112. Could you please explain what you mean?

Because I know several DUers have been working hard and are coming up with a good list of companies, that we should either be staying away from or supporting.

[secedeeconomically]

117. They will give to both sides

Unless a company is overtly right wing, like Sinclair, I just don’t believe it will have any affect. And honestly I don’t have a problem with a company giving to the GOP. Lets face it, both the DNC and RNC both extort money from big corporation. It’s an organized mafia, both the Dems and GOP have dirty hands. However, if a specific company goes over board and actively tries to court the right then its war and agree we should attack.

[foreigncorrespondent]

129. Maybe so...

...but the way The Progressive Pages has been set up is, a company listing will show if it has given to both sides. It is up to the induvidual to decide if they want to do business with this company or not.

[southlandshari]

121. thanks for this!

This looks like a genuine, productive step in the right direction!

[Catchawave]

110. Boycott Fox News sponsors a la Sinclair....

Which was very effective, right! Baby steps kids, let's pick a show (O'Reilly?, Hannity?)...or anyone of them that kiss Ann Coulter and John O'Neill butt...

I've often thought of a citizen (PAC) group (DU-MoveOn-ACT)lawsuit against the Swifties myself. They lied to America, plain and simple. They made beaucoups bucks off their smear book and donated that to the RNC or profitted themselves.

So many wonderful ways to fill our War Chest, eh? Let Campaign 2008 begin:party:

[secedeeconomically]

111. Fox just preaches o the quire

Besides every company advertises there

[Catchawave]

116. We know that...

...but we also don't want to punish dems in red states!

[secedeeconomically]

118. Dont follow

[Texasgal]

114. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

*yawn*

Just another useless thread about red states....

[secedeeconomically]

120. Not true. This has nothing to do with red blue states

But rather progressives against religious right

[Nicole]

123. Then why did you title it "economic boycott of red states"

instead of boycott the religious right?

[secedeeconomically]

125. Well Nicole,

Sometimes the road to enlightenment isn’t always a strait line.

[americanwomanone]

115. I Absolutely Will Not!

I am not going to punish the people that work for those companies and put them out of work. I am not going to inconvenience myself to try to prove a point. What is it proving anyway? Is everyone now supposed to have the same political opinion? I don't get the reasoning behind this idea at all.

[secedeeconomically]

122. Ponder this

If you and I are sitting next to a table and I place 2 apples on the table. I then spend the next 2 hours trying to convince you that there are 3 apples on this table. However you only see 2 apples, which is correct. Can you and I ever come to a middle ground? Can we come to an understanding? No we cant. Because one of us is clearly wrong. And this is what’s currently going on in the US. 50% of the populations see 3 apples on the table and the other half see 2. Now, how do you proceed?

[Selwynn]

126. What does that have to do with justifying your proposal?

Nothing.

How do you proceed? By coming up with an idea that actually has merit. By becoming involved locally with non-profits and active community organizations to speak out - make a name for yourself. Write intelligent thoughtful editorials or letters to the editor, work with community groups and sponsor, open houses, or other community events where you can share your message and influence minds. Start right now today working on the 2006 local elections. Donate money. Donate time. Get progressive thinkers elected to school boards or city councils or other positions locally - start committing yourself to the challenge of winning hearts and minds right in your hometown, then in your state.

Your analogy makes it sound as you are very narrow minded. Idaho was not always a "red" state. Why did it change? Because people convinced people to think differently. There is a kind of - yes, I love it that I get to say this phrase again - "soft bigotry" in your analogy in assuming that people who don't agree with you are either too stupid or too evil to change, so why bother trying. That's insane.

What you do is you get your ass off the computer chair and you go down and you volunteer to the organizations that desperately need your time the most. You get involved in the fight to CHANGE what you don't like by exchanging ideas and changing minds - not by building up blind stenotype's of "red" states and acting like somehow a company should by "boycotted" simply because of its physical location. There are a lot of "blue" companies located in "red" states, and there are a lot of "blue" workers, working their butt off for those companies who don't need people like you trying to do them the "favor" of relieving them of their job.

Sel

[secedeeconomically]

128. Well your ideas doesn’t work, as the last election proved

PLAN B

[Selwynn]

134. Well seeing as how WE WON the last election....

..and either way, Plan B should not be to fuck innocent people.

[NuttyFluffers]

127. your big problem is massive corporations fiddling with our politics

local blue-businesses in red-states need our love now more than ever. they are definitely going to feel the pinch from their fellow locals and are going to need out-of-state blue-people to help boost their sales.

that said, you don't have to go on a 5 week vacation to kansas.

red-businesses, be they from red or blue states, should not receive our business. but we have to be smart about it. companies with meager $$ in politics, or low % bias isn't a big concern. companies with big $$ and big % bias should be major boycott targets. and more importantly there are plenty of blue-people in blue-rural-counties in blue-states, they definitely are being hit just as hard as other rural communities. i'd try to spend there more often if i could.

[kayell]

132. Secedeeconomically, you need to come up with some kind of positive plan

You have been all over the map in this thread. 1st wanting to boycott red states in mass, then backing off and saying that was a mistake, then saying no you didn't mean that. You've claimed it is no use using boycotts, that everything is made in China, that all corporations give to both repugs and dems, that there is nothing we can do, but that we need to do something effective.

Everytime someone presents you with some positive actions to take, you whine about how useless it is to boycott - in a thread YOU started on boycotting. Personally, I'm getting a bit fed up.

I think you really need to state in no uncertain terms what your suggestion is for effective action. No pointing fingers, no excuses, just what EXACTLY you think will work. Details please.

[americanwomanone]

133. That is What I Am Waiting For

Something positive, not this "I'll Get Even With You Mentality". It won't work.