'Antiwar Cause Doesn't Even Have a Movement ...or Agenda'

[G_j]

*my note* ..there is a smaller 'movement' who continues to say "Out Now!" I'm one of them..

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Destroying Iraq To Save It

by Michael Kinsley, Los Angeles Times

Rejecting the logic of occupation and wondering where the anti-war movement is.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kinsley21nov21,0,7794529.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
http://tompaine.com/opinion/#002796

Has there ever before been a war that so many people disapproved of but so few wanted to stop? Have the reasons for starting a war ever been so thoroughly discredited without turning into reasons for ending it?

The Vietnam-era antiwar movement had an agenda: Bring the troops home. Or, in two words — suitable for a picket sign or a T-shirt — "Out now."

What seems to be today's antiwar position — it was a terrible mistake and it's a terrible mess, but we can't just walk away from it — was actually the pro-war position during Vietnam. In fact, it was close to official government policy for more than half the length of that war.

Today's antiwar cause doesn't even have a movement, to speak of, let alone an agenda. It consists of perhaps 47% of the citizenry — the ones who voted for John Kerry — who are in some kind of existential opposition to the war but don't know what they want to do about it.

Meanwhile, U.S. soldiers die by the hundreds and Iraqis — military and civilian — by the thousands in a cause these people (and I'm one of them) believe to be a horrible mistake.

..more..

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. hmmm this is circa 1962

maybe all teh way to '65

When the movement finally emerges into the consciousness of the MSM they will be shocked I tell you... SHOCKED

[DemBones DemBones]

15. Bingo. Most people aren't paying attention YET.

OR, they're paying attention to MSM and thus not really aware of what's happening in Iraq YET. They haven't figured out what happend in the election YET. They haven't figured out the ramifications of the Patriot Act YET.

Will they wake up? Or will they just keep watching "Survivor"? That's a real concern. But the contrast between the America of 1962 and the America of 1967 is great and, you know, it gives me some hope. People changed enormously in those years, turning against the war, turning against authoritarianism. Growing their hair, raising their hemlines, expanding their minds (and not always with drugs, stereotypes to the contrary. What caused it all? Was it the music? Or was it just time for the pendulum to swing? In 1962, we were still in Eisenhower's tame, conformist America. It was like Kansas everywhere. By 1967, though, we knew we weren't in Kansas anymore.

[fugue]

2. I've been "Out Now" since we went in

Yes, there will be chaos if we leave. There's chaos now. So what's the difference, as far as chaos level goes? Riverbend says that knowing that it will get bad once the Americans are gone, the Iraqis still want the Americans out. That's good enough for me.

At least if we're gone, the Iraqis can rebuild their lives.

I do think we should be paying for the cost to rebuild Iraq, but just like when you break something in a store, you pay for it and then you go away to let them clean up. We should pay for what we broke but we should let them decide how they want the place to look.

[leftchick]

3. sadly G j ....

I believe it will take an actual DRAFT to mobilize people, especially the young adults. It would also help if the dead and severly wounded Iraqis and soldiers were shown 24/7. or at least 1/7.

I am with you "Out Now"! This one was lost before it started.
:(

[G_j]

6. Falluja

I remember the huge and almost immediate response to the bombing of Cambodia. As Falluja was obliterated I realized there was not going to be that response this time. Sure a few of us stood on the street corner with signs, but I can't help but feel we've lost much more than just an election. :-(

www.bringthemhomenow.org

[G_j]

11. I keep seeing Fallujah spelled two ways

with and without the h.

Anyway, I was going to add that the rest of the world hasn't missed what America has been doing there. They are probably wondering what happened to the anti-war movement also!

[Plaid Adder]

4. I've been saying 'get out' for months now.

Nobody cares, of course; but I think there are probably a lot of people in the antiwar movement who would take the same position. They just don't feel like they can articulate it at the leadership level because it would be political suicide. I disagree with that; but then again, who's listening to me.

C ya,

The PLaid Adder

[G_j]

8. I'm listening...

Maybe it is the ABB compromises we made that we need to shake off.
Maybe it is the shock of the election itself.
Personally I feel somewhat 'dirtied' by the election, in that I put many of my own principals on the back burner in a desperate attempt to dump Bush. I am feeling this overwhelming sadness now.
Are we a ship without a rudder?

[htuttle]

5. There is and has been an 'Out Now' movement

But as G_j notes, it's much smaller.

So, what did the anti-war movement get for swallowing it's concerns and voting for the lesser evil? Looks like we got more evil. Again.

Time for us to stop pretending there's some way out of this that isn't a complete disaster -- cause there isn't. The best thing to do is simply leave.

The so-called 'Pottery Barn' rule is bullshit and a bad analogy. A better one would be an armed robber invades your home, rapes your wife and kills your kids. Then he pledges to stick around until all the mess is cleaned up....

One last thing: I think the anti-war marches before the war didn't work because we thought they would. As a result, we tried to be 'polite' and 'inform people'. That doesn't work.

As the war drags on, demonstrations will get more disruptive, since then protests will be the only option we have left available to us. If we start shutting cities down, then things might change. Power concedes nothing without a demand.

[SmokingJacket]

7. We were counting on Kerry to get us out (eventually)

Now we have to come up with another idea.

I say, weekly protests in every major city and college.

Who's with me?

[G_j]

10. we do have weekly vigils

here (Asheville NC) but there is no obvious groundswell.
Veterans For Peace continue their weekly vigils also.
..feeling much like a voice in the wilderness... :-(

[JohnnyCougar]

14. I have tons of friends that want to protest

I jsut don't see any sort of organization going on. I am in Chicago, and I have tons of friends in Milwaukee, too. We are just waiting for protests to attend.

I really don't have time to organize any right now, as I am in school. For Winter Break, though, I would help organize and attend protests anywhere in the country.

[Village Idiot]

9. Many embeds were comaparing Fallujah to Hue -

not one of them mentioned that it became impossible to save Hue without destroying the entire city, so of course they had to "destroy it to save it..."

[GetTheRightVote]

12. I am with you, I hate this war and how our country seems to be ignoring it

All it took for me to have it really sink in were the pictures I saw here on DU. Now I am haunted by them, I do not know how soldiers live with it surrounding them. There are over 30,000 wounded who are not knowledged, and the say 1/4 of the returning soldiers have the post tramum (??) problems, not being able to forget it all when they come home. The war should end and today is not soon enough.

[JohnnyCougar]

13. PTSD...Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

It is classified as a mental illness, I think. And yes, it is common in soldiers returning from War.