Bush plans for screening ALL Americans for mental illness

[Carl Brennan]

(((Except he and his Cabinet and friends of course. Executive Privilege )))

Thank seemslikeadream for doing the work on this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=630988&mesg_id=631032&page=

Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness
Jeanne Lenzer
New York


A sweeping mental health initiative will be unveiled by President George W Bush in July. The plan promises to integrate mentally ill patients fully into the community by providing "services in the community, rather than institutions," according to a March 2004 progress report entitled New Freedom Initiative (www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html <http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html> ). While some praise the plan's goals, others say it protects the profits of drug companies at the expense of the public.

Bush established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a "comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system." The commission issued its recommendations in July 2003. Bush instructed more than 25 federal agencies to develop an implementation plan based on those recommendations.

The president's commission found that "despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed" and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. According to the commission, "Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders." Schools, wrote the commission, are in a "key position" to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.

The commission also recommended "Linkage with treatment and supports" including "state-of-the-art treatments" using "specific medications for specific conditions." The commission commended the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) as a "model" medication treatment plan that "illustrates an evidence-based practice that results in better consumer outcomes."

MORE
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/14... <http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458>

[Richardo]

1. May I be the first to say....

...fuck that shit. :mad: :grr: :nuke: They can have my EEG when they pry it from my cold dead frontal lobe.

[Melodybe]

2. It passed Saturday in the Senate, tin foil my ass!

[Richardo]

5. Oh I know it's not tinfoil, that's why I'm enraged...

Where did you get tinfoil? :shrug:

[Melodybe]

7. From a poster in one of the other threads that said I was acting like a

hysterical idiot.

Not you, but to all those here that think this isn't real.

[madfloridian]

9. We are all hysterical idiots now. Our Democrats voted for this.

So if we don't agree, we will be attacked. Trust me.

[ilovenicepeople]

22. The tin foil hat to me stands for truth

It is not a "talking point" to be followed by a chuckle and further denial.There only seems to be a handful of people at DU that took the red pill,the rest are waiting for Kerry to save the world I guess?

[Solitaire]

6. and I will /absolutely/ second that motion.

Screw that!

If this comes to pass, I will leave this country, without a look back.


:mad: :grr:

[Melodybe]

11. It passed in the Senate on Saturday.

[Obviousman]

3. Let this be the first of many

Nation wide boycotts

[Bluebear]

4. "For consumers of all ages" This is how this emperor regards us.

nt

[Kathy in Cambridge]

8. He's trying to make the pharmaceutical companies rich

and trying to squelch dissent. Killing two birds with one stone...

[Carl Brennan]

19. Poppy was on the BOD of Eli Lilly. A job he

got from Dan Quayles father. Rummy is into Searle pharmauceuticals.

[Goathead]

48. They all have their hands in the drug companies

http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet.asp##1

[Carl Brennan]

56. Thanks, that's a great link.

:toast:

[mhr]

10. Wake Up Amerika

Mandatory mental health screenings

Sneak and Peak searches of your home.

Sneak and peak searches of your taxes.

Doesn't anyone else see the connections.

The republicans are setting up the apparatus to prune the population at will.

Not mentally fit enough - you are going down.

Cheated on your taxes too much - you are going down.

Concealing something suspicious in your home - you are going down.

[Solitaire]

14. I may be wrong, but...

I don't think the American people will stand for this.

And if not all, some. If this stuff is really going to happen, it's very scary, because there will be a war and Osama Bin Laden wins.

Please explain how that lunatic is in office? Please? Someone, tell me, because my mind just won't get around it. I feel like I'm living in a nightmare that won't end.

Isn't this the United States? Did I get misplaced?

I think I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. May I scream now?

:cry:

[mhr]

20. Unemployed 53 Months - I Live The * Nightmare Everyday

eom

[Carl Brennan]

74. Kick

[SmokingJacket]

49. They won't stand for it? What are they going to do, vote the bums out?

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahha!

[FlaGranny]

91. Somehow, during our sleep, we

have shifted over into a parallel universe is what I think. I also think in Bush's* new America a statement like that would get me branded as crazy and placed involuntarily on drugs.

[SaintAnne]

12. what to do

this sucks a lot a lot.

[Carl Brennan]

23. Get the word out. Forewarned is Forearmed.

[juliagoolia]

13. Take off the tin foil hats.

http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/50/1/69

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=Texas+Medication+Algorithm+Project

Listen folks, Reagan threw all the mentally ill out of hospitals, and they have been wandering on the streets for years. Until they have a crisis and end up in the hospital or jail.

I am the parent of a mentally ill adult. It IS the invisible ilness and sadly once a mentally ill child becomes an adult they have to do it alone and often times it doesn't get done. Parent have their hands tied, and until someone notices by accident they are mentally ill they rot in homeless shelters and jails.

Believe me, there are long waiting lists to get on these programs in TX too.

Often mentally ill are not recognized and are now living in jails and on the streets.

When you are mentally ill, you are not criminal or lazy.

We have to help an entire population that is suffering.

Instead of freaking out say what exactly you would do differently and how you would help them.

[Solitaire]

15. juliagoolia..

I think the problem is the /screening/ of all Americans more than anything else.

I wholeheartedly agree we could do a lot more for disabled Americans, but I'm not sure that's why everyone is upset. At least it's not why I'm upset.

[juliagoolia]

16. who gets screened? and why do you say all americans?

im looking for the place where it says they are screening ALL AMERICANS and so far have not found that.

[Solitaire]

17. here

A sweeping mental health initiative will be unveiled by President George W Bush in July. The plan promises to integrate mentally ill patients fully into the community by providing "services in the community, rather than institutions," according to a March 2004 progress report entitled New Freedom Initiative (www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html ). While some praise the plan's goals, others say it protects the profits of drug companies at the expense of the public.
Bush established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in April 2002 to conduct a "comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system." The commission issued its recommendations in July 2003. Bush instructed more than 25 federal agencies to develop an implementation plan based on those recommendations.

-The president's commission found that "despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed" and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. -

(I do believe that's what it says, or am I misunderstanding this?)

According to the commission, "Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders." Schools, wrote the commission, are in a "key position" to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.
The commission also recommended "Linkage with treatment and supports" including "state-of-the-art treatments" using "specific medications for specific conditions." The commission commended the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) as a "model" medication treatment plan that "illustrates an evidence-based practice that results in better consumer outcomes."
MORE
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/14...

[Cerridwen]

18. I can't either. Though I admit I did a quick scan of the site

not the article. I can't find the words from the article in the same configuration anywhere on the site.

I must've missed something. 'Cause I'm on my 10th or 12th tin foil hat due to the length of time I've warn them and the constant use I give them.

:shrug:

[juliagoolia]

21. in the opinon article on the BJM site it

says it, but I am looking in the document on the whitehouse site that has the plan on it. I will read it all, but I can't imagine all consumers getting scanned for mental illness. One, we don't have enough psych people to do it, two it would take years, three people are not going to line up for this.

Here is what I see the need is.. from someone who has been there.
Kids with mental illness get kicked out and labeled as "bad" children, and the parents are usually labeled as bad parents too. Then they get in trouble and who pays>? the sick child and the parents are scorned because if they'd just done a better job the kid would not have done that!!

I can't tell you how many well meaning parents told me what they did when their child screamed or acted out, and then wondered why I didnt do the same thing. I DID..and short of going in and killing the kid dead none of thier ideas were going to work.

Now here is the issue, these kids are in our schools. Some of them are bullies, and reclusive kids. They end up not getting educated and they suffer. They suffer like you can't imagine. I've imagined mine doing the suicide thing many times. Its a pain that never ends for these kids. Once these kids get grown they are not mature and often become very lost and end up in prison before someone helps them if ever then.

So, what is the answer>? So many of them are labeled "bad kids" even by their own parents? Don't think so? Sit in on a therapy session with some redneck parents of mentally ill kids that think a little more discipline or a good whacking on the back end is all they need. Sit in on a IEP(special ed) planning session in a school where the only goal for the child's education is to not disrupt the other kids and if they learn, so what.

So what is the solution folks?

I do not see that they are planning to SCREEN US ALL.. you have no idea what that would take. Having been there....I know its not easy

How the plan in TX is working for my daughter age 29
She had to beg to get on it for one.
Two she pays some every month to the county
three she gets her meds for free.
the county uses a plan from pharmaceutical companies for the chronic patient who is mentally ill. they provide the meds free through one of these programs!


Now I am not a supporter of BUSH at all.

BUT anything that helps mentally ill kids or mentally ill adults I AM FOR IT>!

[Solitaire]

24. oh, I agree!! I just wouldn't put it past him to try.

[Nobody]

41. From another who has been there

This is in no way meant to challenge the idea that there are a lot of people who do have undiagnosed mental illnesses. That much is true, and a lot of it isn't covered by health insurance.

Back in the days when health coverage was total and no copays of any kind, I was sent to see shrinks almost from kindergarten on to high school. Why?

In kindergarten, it was because I knew how to read. Thanks to older siblings who loved to play school, they taught me reading. And because I read directions instead of doing a project the way a teacher said to, I was sent into a room to talk to some social worker, missed my bus (and in that day and age, any time you missed the bus it was because you were in HUGE trouble). Already I was being stigmatized.

Fast forward a couple years. I was the smallest, scrawniest, and smartest kid in class, and it was almost as if I wore a target on my chest. You think I had problems relating to other kids? Naaaaah! I was an introvert besides, and in the school I went to, being an introvert was a VERY BAD THING. So I was sent to a grand total of five shrinks.

This caused me to lose a lot of school, and when my parents, wise people that they are, took me out of school A and sent me to school B, the shrinks blew their wisdom away with PhDs and just when I was starting to make friends and settle in, I was sent to yet another school where I never did fit in. Again, being an introvert was just plain not allowed.

I did eventually fit into high school and do OK. All I needed was the time no one seemed to want to give me.

I'm now a well-adjusted adult now, still an introvert, but I support myself, am about as happy as most people despite a Bush in the White House. But I don't have the health coverage to pay for it.

Oh and by the way, my parents got hit with the entire cost of my childhood hell. Their insurance refused to cover it.

So if I'm less than enthusiastic about forced mental health screening, I have a damn good reason. The story you have just read is heavily whitewashed, and doesn't go into the detail I just don't have the time or space for.

[Solitaire]

63. oh dear :(

I can understand as well as I'm able.

I went to a shrink -once- in my life. When my beloved dog died. The Animal Medical Center offered it, so I went.

I think I went once and well, I guess it was ok, but I could cry as well by myself or to my friends. At least it was the way I felt.

All I'm saying is that no one is forcing me to see a Dr, in any way shape or form, ever.

I think this would be un-Constitutional? Or don't we have that anymore?

[Carl Brennan]

95. Kick

[regnaD kciN]

94. What makes you think we'd have a choice?

One, we don't have enough psych people to do it, two it would take years, three people are not going to line up for this.

People wouldn't line up for it voluntarily, but who says they want it to be voluntary?

I could see a scenario where you had to have a mental screening to renew your driver's license, or when you needed medical attention (like when a previous generation of Republicans were talking about making AIDS tests mandatory for anyone admitted to a hospital for any reason), and at least for anyone who was arrested.

And, while it would be prohibitive to do a full, thorough mental-health screening for everyone, why do you think that's what would be provided? More likely, a quick once-over by someone barely trained to do the job, but at least sub rosa tasked to find something/anything that would allow the subject to be labelled "mentally ill," and thus requiring mandatory medication.

Trust me, I saw this in my own life, just this past summer. My father (a very opinionated 91-year-old with one of the sharpest minds of anyone I've ever met) was admitted to the hospital with broken ribs. However, he disagreed forcefully with the so-called treatment he was getting, and in return the doctor called in a psychiatrist who snap-labelled him as "psychotic" -- for telling them that the pain medication he was getting was inadequate! -- and shoved him in the psych ward, where he was not allowed a phone to talk with my mother (who was herself housebound and couldn't visit him) and warned that he would "never be allowed to leave" unless he consented to sit in hours-long group-therapy sessions every day (remember, he was suffering from broken ribs at the time, and was in no condition to even sit in a chair for more than a few minutes), admitted that he was "mentally ill," and submitted to their treatment. We tried to get a "second opinion" from a group of medical-legal experts, but he suffered a stroke three days before the earliest time they could review his case, and died without ever regaining consciousness. :cry:

In the old Soviet Union, the "mental health" system was really an arm of the KGB, serving more to crush dissent than to actually help people with illnesses. Instead of convicting a dissident and locking him in a Gulag (which, eventually, brings negative world attention), they resorted to diagnosing them as "mentally ill" and thus, as a show of how humane their system was, "treating" instead of imprisoning them. This "treatment" really involved locking them away just the same as at any prison camp, and forcing them to take medication that basically turned them into zombies. I can easily see the same thing happening here, if the government gets the right, on their own whim, to examine and proclaim anyone "insane" and force them to receive chemical "treatment."

:scared:

[OneBlueSky]

33. yes, it's ALL Americans . . .

here's the relevant section of the President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health's final report:

http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/Finalreport/FullReport.htm

Goal 4 - Early Mental Health Screening, Assessment, and Referral to Services Are Common Practice

In a transformed mental health system, the early detection of mental health problems in children and adults - through routine and comprehensive testing and screening - will be an expected and typical occurrence. At the first sign of difficulties, preventive interventions will be started to keep problems from escalating. For example, a child whose serious emotional disturbance is identified early will receive care, preventing the potential onset of a co-occurring substance use disorder and breaking a cycle that otherwise can lead to school failure and other problems.

Quality screening and early intervention will occur in both readily accessible, low-stigma settings, such as primary health care facilities and schools, and in settings in which a high level of risk exists for mental health problems, such as criminal justice, juvenile justice, and child welfare systems. Both children and adults will be screened for mental illnesses during their routine physical exams.

For consumers of all ages, early detection, assessment, and links with treatment and supports will help prevent mental health problems from worsening. Service providers across settings will also routinely screen for co-occurring mental illnesses and substance use disorders. Early intervention and appropriate treatment will also improve outcomes and reduce pain and suffering for children and adults who have or who are at risk for co-occurring mental and addictive disorders.

Early detection of mental disorders will result in substantially shorter and less disabling courses of impairment.

For consumers of all ages, early detection, assessment, and links with treatment and supports will help prevent mental health problems from worsening.
To aid in transforming the mental health system, the Commission makes four recommendations:

4.1 Promote the mental health of young children.

4.2 Improve and expand school mental health programs.

4.3 Screen for co-occurring mental and substance use disorders and link with integrated treatment strategies.

4.4 Screen for mental disorders in primary health care, across the lifespan, and connect to treatment and supports.

this document is referenced in A Progress Report on Fulfilling America's Promise to Americans with Disabilities . . . see Chapter 4 . . .

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html

President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health

On April 29, 2002, the President issued Executive Order 13263 establishing the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health. Composed of fifteen members representing providers, payers, administrators, and consumers of mental health services, as well as family members of consumers, and seven ex officio members, the Commission was charged with conducting “a comprehensive study of the United States mental health service delivery system, including public and private sector providers,” and was directed to advise the President on methods of improving the system. In July 2003, the Commission issued its recommendations in a final report entitled Achieving the Promise, Transforming Mental Health Care in America. See http://www.mentalhealthcommission.gov/reports/reports.htm.
The report identifies barriers to care within the mental health system and examples of community-based care models that have proven successful in coordinating and providing treatment services.

The Commission concluded that the mental health service delivery system in the United States must be substantively transformed. In the transformed system: 1) Americans understand that mental health is essential to overall health; 2) mental health care is consumer and family-driven; 3) disparities in mental health services are eliminated; 4) early mental health screening, assessment, and referral to services are common practice; 5) excellent mental health services are delivered and research is accelerated; and 6) technology is used to access mental health care and information.

The Commission also concluded that the roles played by states must be central to the transformation process, but states must rely heavily upon the involvement of consumers in research, planning, and evaluation activities. At the same time, the coordinated efforts of more than 25 Federal agencies must undergird and reinforce the states’ processes. Every adult with a serious mental illness or child with a serious emotional disturbance must have an individualized plan of care coordinating services among programs and across agencies. Every state must have a comprehensive mental health plan, the ownership of which is shared by all state agencies impacting the care of persons with serious mental illnesses.

[Jo March]

81. And we'll all be taken to the camps soon

Shit. Shit, damn, shit.

I fucking hate Bush. God forgive me, but I do.

[FlaGranny]

93. I have no problem with finding mental illness early

and treating it. It seems to me that is just the thing to do. Where I draw the line is looking for it where it does not exist. Everyone at some time is a little "crazy." The only problem with mental health delivery right now is that 95 percent of the people who need it cannot afford to pay for it. How is all this screening and care going to be paid for - universal health insurance?

My big problem is who is going to decide someone's mental health and what will they do about it? What we really need instead is a comprehensive and affordable health care system that includes psychiatric and psychological treatment.

[The Straight Story]

97. I am not sure I agree 100% with the analysis (but)

But maybe sometimes those wacky christians were onto something with the whole beast thing in the latter days.

Now for the analysis:

4.4 Screen for mental disorders in primary health care, across the lifespan, and connect to treatment and supports.

This sounds like something a board recommended to get care givers to look at more than just physical problems a patient may have. Coming in sick a lot could indicate you have problems that might have a deeper base (ie stress, spousal abuse, etc). Screening could well mean a set of guidlines provided to care givers with common questions they could ask and what to look for - if flags fo up they could recommend that the patient follow up with someone in the psych field.

Teachers, Doctors, et al are often trained to look for signs of things like abuse, for example, and this extends that looking to a deeper level which could help them better heal the patient.

This could also kick of a greater awareness to mental health issues in the general populace making them more able to deal with it on a personal and professional basis, and when needed seek help.

Now all that said - I still don't like government getting so involved with such things, I think it will be used poorly in that many will simply send someone off for meds and pretend that heals them, and so forth.

I am more a fan of someone like Thomas Szasz in things like this (who defines what mentally ill or crazy is - mainly those in power).

Overall I don't think the order is to force us all into testing against our will.

[OneBlueSky]

25. tinfoil hats my ass! . . .

this has to do with who's doing the screening (it's the BUSH Administration!), how they plan to do it, what they'll call "mental illness", and a whole raft of other concerns . . . how soon will it be before homosexuality is considered a mental illness? . . . and what "treatments" will they prescribe? . . . this whole thing has "Eugenics" written all over it . . . and, if you do your research, you'll find out that there's a lot of support for the concept running through the Bush family tree, going back several generations . . .

this is scary as hell, and we shouldn't let them get away with it . . .

[H2O Man]

29. This has made the rounds on DU

many times, and is no more true today than the first time it was posted. There is no plan to screen "all Americans."

The part that is of concern involves the screening done in schools. The truth is that it already occures. What the problem is, is that numerous children are misdiagnosed, and the new laws will allow the system to force more children to take medications. The truth is that while these medications have some successs with some children, even those who are properly diagnosed are going to have side-effects that will change their lives.

[OneBlueSky]

34. you're wrong . . . refer to my post #33, above . . . n/t

.

[H2O Man]

38. I've read your post and all of the legislation.

And I'm not "wrong." The difference between us is that I understand it.

[juliagoolia]

40. Thank you

From someone thats lived through the nightmare of chronic serious mental illness in the family. Thanks for being sane on an important issue like this.

[H2O Man]

43. You are welcome.

I am a retired psychiatric social worker. I know what the legislation is, and what it is not. There are serious issues that people should be concerned about. None of them fit into the chicken little - the sky is falling category involved in the "everyone will be screened!!!" hysteria.

I noticed earlier that you had a grasp of what "community based" services are. If people would look closer at the community based services already in place in our society, they would find that they are remarkably underfunded. Bush is NOT going to increase funding to help needy people. Rather, this bill is an attempt to cut those services that are therapy-based, and to increase the amount of psychotropic medications that consumers are prescribed. In my opinion, that creates serious problems in three ways: {1} it will further close the door on the amount of services that people who do benefit from seeing therapists and psychologists can get; {2} it will make case management services to replace therapy, with medication compliance the primary goal; and {3} children will be treated for diseases they do not have. These are serious enough to warrent our attention. We need not make up silly scare stories.

[hollywood926]

46. Thanks - I'm glad SOMEBODY actually read the bill!

Several threads today have involved what I deem HYSTERIA. I'm glad to see that a few people have actually read and understand it. It's something that should be addressed and debated, but a lot of what I have been reading is just nonsense and, like you said, silly scare stories.

We mustn't stoop to their level.

[DELUSIONAL]

70. Strange conflicting messages of the right wing

First of all when right wingers take over school districts one of the first professionals fired -- counselors and the school type shrinks (school psychologists etc.). I've seen this happen repeatedly in several school districts.

Then people are belittle if they seek out therapy -- and there are many people who could benefit from talk therapy -- or just someone listening and then offering guidance.

However drugging of children has gotten so acceptable -- that parents have been hauled into court by school districts. Many children are being drugged inappropriately -- schools favor introverted (internalizers) and children who can quietly memorize and who are adaptable. While the extroverted (externalizers) are often targeted for drugs at an early ago -- these kids just have different ways of learning. It is easier to drug the kids than to adapt to the needs of the children. I've read about some of these cases and know several parents who had to fight the school district on this issue. It should be obvious that some children have different learning styles -- they have to feel and touch and do. Other children can work out things in their heads.

It would seem that the future class size could be very large -- filled with passive children who can do the work expected of them --but probably not working to their highest potential. They could be drugged into round pegs that fit into round holes of the system. Later these children would go on to be unquestioning soldiers (drugged for this role too) for the corporations war of accusations -- need more workers -- invade Haiti -- cheap work force.

This would be a model system envisioned by the B.F. Skinner crowd. Take away that which makes us unique individuals by using drugs supplied by corporations -- then create that "blank slate" using drugs. Personalities can be reshaped -- by stripping away and then rebuilding. There was some CIA funded research done in Canada -- where people served as Guinea Pigs and had their personalities stripped away and then reshaped. I can't remember the name of the MD in Canada -- nor any of his patients who have since come forward with frightening stories. It has been years since I've read about the lives ruined by this modern day monster.

B.F. Skinner believed that all behavior was the result of learning and that humans came into the world with a blank slate. It is ironic that this "blank slate" can be created with drugs.

This proposed testing for mental health/illness isn't being done out of the kindness of their hearts -- I suspect that the NeoCons have a long term plan in place.

As an aside -- RayGun and his gang did not like colleges -- the fad of dumb cowboys -- and plain speaking folks come from this crowd. Gee bush isn't polished -- he can be crude and crass and sound dumb just like the red-necked idiots who vote for him. College education and book learning is put down by this crowd. From almost the day RayGun took office he did battle with the colleges -- this was back in the days when a California college education was relatively cheap.

It was from this well educated crowd that the techno revolution of the 80s & 90s came. The short sighted GOPigs don't see the wisdom of educating children and young people to think -- they want strict obedience and "faith" from the young. People that will willingly fight -- and what better way than drugging children starting really early.

If this happens the creativity that drives America will die.

So they want to drug kids -- but they don't want the kids to go into counseling -- or for families to go for family counseling. Psychology, Counseling ( & all the helping profession) and talking is dangerous. So many children could benefit from early counseling interventions -- without resorting to drugs.

[politicat]

77. Glad to see that someone else is reading what I'm reading in it.

I read the bill when it first surfaced and I'll admit, I dismissed the chatter here as DU tinhatting....

It's a serious issue, of course, because anything the * administration does to "help" people never does so, but I don't think we have any more to worry about than we currently have in dealing with the public school counselors and the adult equivalent.

I know, I used to be one of the adolescent equivalent. (Clinical psychologist in public mental health.)

This is an experiment in medication over intervention. That's a worry. It's ripe for misdiagnosis, which has the potential to cause about a billion iatrogenic issues a week; if that doesn't bother you, someone should check your pulse.

That said, if it really did what it claimed to do, I'd be heralding it with trumpets and laurel wreaths. But...

Pcat

[OneBlueSky]

69. fine . . . trust 'em if you like . . . I don't . . .

and what part of

4.4 Screen for mental disorders in primary health care, across the lifespan, and connect to treatment and supports.

don't you understand? . . .

[H2O Man]

73. I do understand it.

You don't, and that's why you feel compelled to resort to silly things like "fine .....trust 'em if you like.." which has nothing to do with the discussion. Regarding your posting the 4.4, tell me specifically what part of that you believe indicates that the entire population will be subjected to?

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. We do NOT already screen all kids in schools

where in the world did you get this idea? That is not at all true. And where do you see that kids will be forcably medicated? That can't happen under current law. Parental approval is required. And I don't see this law taking that away.

[H2O Man]

50. Well, I am familiar with it

from decades of employment as a psychiatric social worker. And while I cannot speak for every school in the country, I can assure you that schools are aware of the histories of the children who are in their hallways. Screening does not mean that they test every child, which you may think is the method used. "Screening" in this sense means to select which children fit into the high-risk groups. I think most people can grasp the fact that a rich kid from a relatively trouble-free home will be viewed -- and treated -- very differently than a child from a poor home who has exhibited aggressive behaviors on the playground.

Children at schools in my state who are deemed to have a diagnosis that generally benefits from medication who have parents who refuse can and very often do become the subject of reports of suspected child neglect. It fits what is required for a medical neglect case. I have seen this happen enough times to know it is not isolated. Hence, although you may believe that this fits a description of parental consent, I do not.

[murray hill farm]

32. If the concern was the mental health of the country

then funds would not be cut from programs that provide the needed help...all community mental health programs have been cut and cut in the past four years..and continue to be cut..in the community and in the schools. Federal funds have been cut for all programs in the schools...including special education and any program that had been set up to help children..after school programs, meals, etc. This is not about providing mental health assistance to our children, it is about identification, labeling...and treatment through drugs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. How have federal funds for special ed been cut?

I wasn't aware of this and I teach special ed. The funds that were promised back in 1974 have never been delivered. Is that what you are referring to?

[Carl Brennan]

52. Very Good point. What Bush tries to pass of as concern for

the public is in direct conflict with all of his health and human services cuts.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. I agree wholeheartedly with you

I have a mentally ill sibling and I teach special ed. We have done a terrible job of taking care of these less fortunate among us and I am cautiously saying this sounds like a good idea to me. Until you know the heartbreak of mental illness, you don't realize what an awful job we do of managing care for those who have it in this country.

If we are really liberals in favor of social programs, then how can we knock this?

Look, I hate * too but I read these links and I see good ideas here. Mental illness is a huge national tragedy. If you don't believe me, ask yourself who those homeless people you see every day on the corners are. Where would they be if we had programs in place to meet their mental health needs? And think of the variety of mental illnesses that plague our society. Pedophilia, substance abuse and crippling depression are all on the rise.

A 6 year old kid was tasered just recently in a school when he freaked out and tried to cut himself with glass! Would you favor giving tasers to special ed teachers or actually helping treat the children to prevent such outbursts?

[noiretextatique]

80. drugging them is what this legislation is all about

not necessarily treating them. i have a schizophrenic nephew, so i know that treatment options are totally inadequate now. however, i also know not to trust anything bush, inc does.

[serryjw]

54. Whats the definition of MENTAL illness?

I would say over 50% of America is so stressed right now that they could use meds BUT should they take them? Solving their finanical crisis would make them much more mentally sane. Yes, you have an adult child that has a problem and 100% support help. BUT we can't even get the most basic medical care for 44 million americans, what the help am I getting screen for my sanity....I"M NOT..totally depressed and what * OUT! that would help my health greatly

[FlaGranny]

92. First, and number one, I wound NOT start

a program that invites abuse. Can you imagine what "Our Leader" could do with this? Do you remember what happened in the Soviet Union when ANYONE who critized the goverment was deemed mentally unfit and sequested in an insane asylum/prison for years until they were cured (by publically admitting that they had been mentally ill)?

There IS an answer for the mentally ill - provide the funds for treament and housing for the actually mentally ill. If he were serious about the mentally ill, he would be providing care for those who need it right now.

[seemslikeadream]

26. Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides

From Capitol Hill Blue

Bush Leagues
Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
By DOUG THOMPSON
Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue
Jun 4, 2004, 06:15



President George W. Bush’s increasingly erratic behavior and wide mood swings has the halls of the West Wing buzzing lately as aides privately express growing concern over their leader’s state of mind.

In meetings with top aides and administration officials, the President goes from quoting the Bible in one breath to obscene tantrums against the media, Democrats and others that he classifies as “enemies of the state.”

Worried White House aides paint a portrait of a man on the edge, increasingly wary of those who disagree with him and paranoid of a public that no longer trusts his policies in Iraq or at home.

The President's abrupt dismissal of CIA Directory George Tenet Wednesday night is, aides say, an example of how he works.

"Tenet wanted to quit last year but the President got his back up and wouldn't hear of it," says an aide. "That would have been the opportune time to make a change, not in the middle of an election campaign but when the director challenged the President during the meeting Wednesday, the President cut him off by saying 'that's it George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your resignation and I want it now."

more
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4636.shtml

more
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=602189

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. My first thought was

hooray, finally a program to get the prez the help he so desperately needs. :)

[Carl Brennan]

53. LOL! Let's hope he includes himself

and his buddies in the program. :bounce:

[area51]

71. Projection

I believe the psychologists call it "projection", in that Shrub is projecting his own mental illness upon the general population of the U.S.

[Deja Q]

27. So people will now have to pay for overpriced drugs that they can't afford

as their good job futures get moved overseas, replaced by loads of retail McCrap jobs?

[wtmusic]

58. Exactly -- RX industry pork

that's all it is.

[PurityOfEssence]

28. Do you believe in god, or are you insane?

Cain't have no insane people runnin' around, ya know...

[Catchawave]

30. Not until he's screened first !

By the way, why did he miss his annual physical last August?

[doc03]

31. Start with the 51% that voted for Bush!

[Starlight]

65. I'd support that. * supporters really do need their head examined. n/t

[tjdee]

35. How will this affect those in therapy (not drugged)?

Will those in therapy be screened first?
Does this bill say anything about that?

[OneBlueSky]

36. one of the scariest aspects of this is what they'll classify . . .

as a "mental illness" . . . how long, for example, before homosexuality is included? . . . think they won't ignore the APA guidelines that say differently? . . . after they've already ignored the Constitution, any number of treaties, and the Geneva Convention? . . . or how about anyone who publicly disagrees with the government or its policies? . . .

[xpunkisneatx]

55. Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness...

But it was taken out of the DSM when it was determined to be nothing of the sort. I highly doubt it would somehow find its way back in there.

[OneBlueSky]

68. and you think this will stop them? . . . puh-leez . . .

like I said, they've already ignored the Constitution, treaties, and the Geneva Convention . . . not to mention countless laws . . . what makes you think the Republican Congress wouldn't just arbitrarily vote on it? . . .

[KT2000]

60. Chemical Illnesses too

those who have become ill from chemical exposures, through lobbying by the powerful chemical/oil industry, are supposed to be diagnosed as mentally ill.
Gulf War Syndrome, Agent Orange victims, workers suffering neurological injury from workplace toxins, people injured in chemical accidents, people who got ill in sick buildings, people with sensitivity to chemicals are generally diagnosed with psychological problems so as to avoid liability.

Would love to see how this screening would treat this.

[ilovenicepeople]

61. One example of mental illness

A 2 year old child crying when taken away from its mother is concidered "mental illness".You people are sick if you can't see where this is taking you.Cry tinfoil all you want,I get to watch your Gulag from the outside.Have Fun.

[Jo March]

86. It ain't tinfoil

It's becoming reality which is way worse than tinfoil could ever be.

I wish that I could watch this from the outside.

God help us all.

[AlFrankenFan]

37. Is this really going to help the mentally ill, or am I missing something?

Because I've read through it, and having a mentally ill sister, I think it sounds like a good idea...yet I see all y'all throwing hissy fits over it. Am I missing something? If so, provide me with a link as proof.

[juliagoolia]

57. People who are not frustrated already

trying to get help for those they love that are mentally ill, and who have seen the horror of the untreated ill person do not get why this is so important.

Screening is not a brain probe or an implant in your brain. Geeeeeesh.
What is cancer screening? WE do that at the ob/gyn. What is breast cancer screening at the age of 40? What is screening?

I don't think they are going to "screen" those that are not already apparently mentally ill to begin with.

I think it might be a good thing too. But hey.. who am I? I only spent about 20 years trying to help someone who was ill and on the verge of psychotic on most days. So .. yeah, I think it might do some good.

btw, I am an alfrankenfan too.

[Jo March]

82. I think that people (including me) are upset because this

isn't for the greater good of the people. After all, no one comes into my daughter's school to "screen" her for cancer.

It should be up to me to take my daughter to be screened for mental illness, not the fucking government. I have suffered from mental illness all of my life - depression. If I am hauled off to the camps, fine, but they aren't labelling my daughter, dammit.

What if my daughter doesn't suffer from depression but she is "flagged" somehow because I do? What if she is later denied insurance or a job or a loan because she's mentall ill or might become mentally ill?

I suffered for YEARS with my illness before it was even diagnosed so I have been frustrated too but I'll be damned if anyone screens my little ones without my permission.

Fuck Bush.

[mcscajun]

39. Doublespeaking trash...

Great! One more way Bush is looking to sell us out for his profit-seeking friends.

And just what is going to constitute 'mental illness'? Some minor depression after a divorce or job loss? Some excitable behavior that perhaps smacks of bi-polar disorder, but isn't?

Who sets the bar? Who decides the standards? The guidelines? The safeguards? Most importantly, who watches the watchers? I agree with those who suggest that Bush get screened First, and let's toss in Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rove and Rumsfeld for good measure. But of course, the Administration and the Congress are all exempt from stuff they pass and make the rest of us live with.

In the era where people have a legitimate concern about too much of their personal information becoming part of one huge database...sure, let's feed our 'mental health' information into the mix. See employers, co-op/condo boards, and anyone with an ax to grind paying (or not) to get the inside scoop on your mental history.

This president's latest (but not only) doublespeak purely boggles the rational mind. "New Freedom Initiative"? With a government willing to probe into your emotional/mental state for fun and profit, and perhaps political use? Gimme a fuckin' break!

Oh...and we have to remember that they're the ones against 'Big Government' interference in the personal lives of American citizens.

[AngryOldDem]

51. Reagan Redux

>>>The plan promises to integrate mentally ill patients fully into the community by providing "services in the community, rather than institutions," according to a March 2004 progress report entitled New Freedom Initiative>>>

This is Reagan Redux. More mentally ill on the street and in the homeless shelters. As it is, community services are overwhelmed and understaffed with the current mentally ill population seeking their help. Will Bush also provide the needed funds for the "community service"? Thought not. Putting such people out onto the street with no realistic plan for treatment or care is just asking for it. It is not going to help them; it is not going to help society.

The rest of this sounds like Huxley and his Soma -- not to mention the doublespeak of cold indifference masking as compassionate conservatism.

:nuke:

ON EDIT: Fix mixed literary metaphor.

[T Bone]

59. Why do I think home schooled and religious schools will be EXEMPT

from this?

Oh I just have that feeling. It's 'private' ya know.

[Nordic]

62. before everybody goes completely apeshit over this ....

can somebody post an actual quote from the White House website that says this?

I looked and couldn't find anything, but then again I'm extremely tired.

[walldude]

64. Here look at this, not from the white house but from their PR firm

On Sept. 9, the 'Ron Paul Amendment' was defeated in the House of Representatives by a vote of 95-315.

The Amendment would have prevented the funds sought by an appropriations bill (HR 5006) from being used for the mandatory mental-health screening of Americans, including public schoolchildren

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132397,00.html

Ron Paul has been trying to fight this for awhile now, and while I can't even look at a repuke these days he was right about this one.

I have a son with Aspergers syndrome(it's a mild form of Autism). I understand the frustration of the other posters who are dealing with mental illness. However, this is not "chicken little" tin foil hat stuff here. First of all I certainly didn't need the government to tell me there was a problem with my child. Any parent can tell when their child is having trouble so really the testing is pointless. Second, there are alot of people from large pharmaceutical companies serving on the New Freedom Commission On Mental Health, kind of a conflict of interest isn't it? Third, if they are really trying to help people with mental illness then why don't they start with the kids that are already diagnosed? We have tried to get assistance with our son for 2 years now, there is just no money in the public schools for children with learning disabilities. I can't afford private school and we lost our insurance (thanks W) so we are kind of stuck. Luckily those rotten, greedy, unionized teachers :eyes: at my sons school go waaaaay above the call of duty to make sure he gets the extra attention he needs.
If you read between the lines of the bill and the mission of the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health it's pretty obvious that they are out to get rich doping up half the population. And you know which half are going to get it.

[Nordic]

66. I think it's worse than that

I don't think it's about money. I think it's about identifying people who might make good soldiers, special ops, assassins, propaganda artists, etc.

Get 'em young, ya know? Label 'em. Later, you can use them.

There's no fucking way I'm letting either of my kids go through this shit. No way whatsoever.

[walldude]

67. I'm with you on that

I have 3 and the government can kiss my ass. I'll home school them if I have to..

[Jo March]

85. Amen to that.

Damn, this is so Orwellian. Hell, it would have to come 100 miles back to the left to even be Orwellian because it's so far past Orwell that it's just fucking unbelievable.

[Jo March]

83. Thanks, walldude. I am too upset to be clear at this point

This is an attempt to drug up our children. Kid feeling a little low? How about four or five drugs? And what if we refuse? Will we have to remove our kids from school because they might be mentally ill and would be too dangerous to have around?

Oh, I am so pissed off about this!!!

God help us all.

[Tight_rope]

72. Well Bush* definately needs to be screened for Mental illness first!

[ChickMagic]

76. I'm with you Tight_rope

Monkeyboy is crazier than a shithouse rat. I dunno, maybe it would be cool to be locked in some cushy loony bin playing Candyland all day. Think he'd go for that?

[Razorback_Democrat]

75. Good News for me?

I'm a mental health professional

(tinfoil hat and all)

[Carl Brennan]

78. LOL!! Maybe I should get back into that

"business".

[dollydew]

79. screening for mental illness

I just don't get some liberals. * has lied about everything from day one. His administration even lied about the reasons for war in Iraq where people are getting killed. Old, young, innocent and guilty alike without any due process. Yet some seem to believe that he and his minions care about the mentally ill in this country. They honestly seem to believe that this bill is honest and will be enforced as written. You mean the same way * cares about health care, the environment, social security, Medicare, veteran benefits, and the like? This is bizarre. I just don't get it. He doesn't care about or enforce other laws and the constitution when it comes to basic human rights for US citizens. He repeatedly violates the Geneva Convention. He has his followers write opinions justifying the torture of other human beings. He slaughters innocent people without remorse. But he cares about the mentally ill. OK.

[Jo March]

84. he doesn't care about the mentally ill but he DOES care about

the drug industry. You know, the makers of Ritalin and Prozac and Zoloft, drugs used to "treat" our poor little kids who may be too hyperactive or too sad or too non-conforming for school.

Kids won't say the pledge of allegiance? Gotta be mentally ill. Kids won't salute the picture of King George? Gotta be mentally ill. Kids have an opinion? Gotta be mentally ill. Get 'em up against the wall, label them, medicate them and then watch them become zombies.

He could give a shit less about the mentally ill, dollydew. He does, however, care a lot about those wonderful drug companies and their beautiful money.

And by the way, I guess I'm "some liberal" that you are talking down to in your post. I'd welcome you to the board but I doubt you will be staying long with your attitude towards "some liberals."

[superconnected]

87. is this going to put a bunch of INSANE republicans in the nut house

where they belong? Doubt it. It's profit motivated, and a weapon.

Next people be drugged or put away for things like being gay, believing the goverment is a corporate scam, and protesting war.

[Jo March]

88. Exactly. There are a lot of things that could be classified as a

mental illness. Not bowing before the king could be one of those things.

[DemonFighterLives]

89. I don't want any pill or shot or koolaid

Or whatever else these corrupt bastards have up their sleeve. They will have to drag me there for any screening. If I'm not nuts now I may be when they take me.

[sakabatou]

90. Businesses and the like

will use the data to fire and hire the pople who have beened screened, deny people jobs because they are disruptive, no admittance for "disruptive" children. Disgusting

[alfredo]

96. Who will pay for any drugs perscribed?

Will the victim be compelled to buy their own drugs if they are considered mentally ill by the government? Will there be penalties for those who refuse or cannot afford the drugs?