Smacked down a friend yesterday.

[IdaBriggs]

She got her "Dear Ready Reserve, we need to update your information in the event of a national crisis" paper this weekend. I had told her to expect it (and why) a few weeks before the election, and been given the "oh, that's not going to happen to me" speech because she's been out of the service for thirteen years, and has two babies (2 yrs old and 8 months).

I had warned both she and her husband that this was coming, and been pretty much blown off. That annoyed me, because why would I make this shit up? Do I not have ENOUGH to worry about in the rest of my life that this type of thing is something I'm going to create and spread FOR THE FUN OF IT?

Anyway, she voted third party (its Michigan), and he won't say (but voted Shrub in 2000). She was very surprised to have received that letter. I told her I intended to laugh at her if she got called up, and laugh even harder when her husband got drafted under the 'special skills' provision (he's a computer guy). I wasn't being nasty or anything; just very matter-of-fact.

"But who will take care of our children?" she asked. I shrugged, and said I was sure they would find somebody; my husband and I would be happy to take the kids if we weren't drafted, too. (That special skills provision pretty much makes everyone draftable, including janitorial workers.) She couldn't believe it when I said I would be laughing -- "You'd LAUGH?" she asked again in a very horrified way.

Yes, I told her. If you didn't help prevent it, you deserve it.

I've gotten cold, haven't I? Sigh. Back to work....

[ClassWarrior]

1. It's okay Ida, you done fine.

Tell your friend that maybe Newt Gingrinch will have his orphanages up and running by the time she and her hub get drafted. They can take care of her kids.

NGU.

[Crunchy Frog]

18. Bwahahahaha!!!!

I like that one.

[Liberal Christian]

2. Your compassion stuns me. n/t

[Lindacooks]

60. Oh please.

I'm done bleeding for those idiots who voted for chimpy. They need to see the consequences of their actions, and if mothers and fathers are shipped off to Iraq, that's fine by me.

[placton]

72. My friend - you are correct.

The cons are most happy to have venom spat at every one of us. They chose the idiot - now they can pay for it. All that happened is that a liberal acted like a conservative.

[ArkDem]

3. What do you mean by 'including janitorial workers'? They are

people with a job just like anyone else aren't they? We aren't being elitist are we?

[Demit]

7. Ida was referring to the "special skills" notation.

[IdaBriggs]

10. "Special Skills" used to be physicians, nurses and pharmacists.

When "special skills" expands to "scrubbing out toilets" I'm not sure if "elitist" is the word you are really looking for -- I'm thinking its more in the "we can take anyone we damn well want to up to age 54 under this rule, and we're going to make sure we do that."

[yorkiemommie1]

21. how old actually can they take them?

my friend's cousin, age 55, is being called up and yesterday on one of the boards, someone mentioned a 60 yr old .

i'd like to hear how many senior citizens are being activated.

my freeper husband is 65 and he doesn't believe all of this.

[IdaBriggs]

23. I'm not sure what the limit is on folks who have served already.

The "special service" thing on the draft plan that started circulating last year said 18-54 if I remember it correctly. Anyone else know?

[Walt Starr]

33. 18-35 is what is on the SSS site

Not 54.

[IdaBriggs]

38. That is under the current system, not the "new" plan.

The one that is still "under wraps" but got released under the Freedom of Information Act. This article http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/164693_draft13.html says 44, but I'm pretty sure I read 54 somewhere....

I wish the search function was working again! :)

[Walt Starr]

42. The 'New Plan' would still have to be approved by congress, IIRC

:shrug:

It means the difference between whther or not I am draftable. IF drafted, I will choose prison.

[Ducks In A Row]

57. people older than 35 ARE being called up right now.

so it looks like we're all fair game at this point.

[Walt Starr]

58. Only prior service people

Not an actual draft. They are calling up people who have previously served only.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

24. Someone posted yesterday

About a 60-year-old getting called up. You might want to do a search.

[jayfish]

11. Come On! Are You Really Having That Much...

trouble understanding the crux of that statement? Or are you just trying to start a fight or be sarcastic?

Jay

[rkc3]

14. Sarcasm is missed by a lot of people. Unfortunately, there is no cure.

[trotsky]

20. Sarcasm is almost impossible to detect in written form.

That post didn't look sarcastic to me, either.

[ArkDem]

55. It was, however.

[thinkingwoman]

30. I use sarcasm as an IQ test

Fast, efficient, effective, and non-invasive.

[rkc3]

40. An IQ test using sarcasm would screen out a lot of RW nutjobs --

for the most part, it's beyond the capacities of all I've ever met.

Do you have particular questions outlined for this test or does the sarcasm pop up during conversation? Is it a written test or do you record the reaction of the subject during conversation?

[thinkingwoman]

45. Conversation

and I look into their eyes for any sign of recognition of sarcasm or even just a simple sense of humor.

Works like a charm.

[jayfish]

54. I Know The Question Wasn't Directed To Me.

But, in my experience, when someone says "your a sarcastic son-of-a bitch" that's usually a pretty good sign that they get it.

Jay

[rkc3]

63. Maybe "don't appreciate sarcasm" is a better phrase to consider.

[trotsky]

4. Cold? Maybe.

But justified, IMHO, given the political climate created by Mepublicans. Most * lovers think that supporting the troops means putting a magnet on your car. If they agree with an aggressive take-the-war-to-the-terrorists approach, they need to realize that it means committing a lot of troops to the conflict. Maybe more than have volunteered for active duty.

Time for some "tough love." Maybe next time they'll think about voting for the guy who says he can fight terrorists a better way.

[jdj]

48. it's these parent's duty to protect their children, which they

have failed to do. There is no reason to trust this admin, after WMD, yellowcake, plamegate, etc, yet they did anyway. The draft may be the main motivation behind the stolen election anyway.

It was really magnanimous to offer to take care of the kids, that's about as compassionate as you can get. Children can't afford for their parents to be this stupid, so they may may have to pay for it in the worst way possible.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. Ida, showing sympathy does no good.

This is all about tough love. And frankly, when the draft affects my family, I will become less kinder in my criticism.

[BigMcLargehuge]

6. it's winter... we're all getting colder

my brother in law was lamenting a surge in his property taxes this year, he voted for Bush because he wanted an income tax cut, that amounted to, maybe, 60 bucks in his tax bracket. He said, "what am I going to do?" I said "Pay it or sell your house." I explained, again, how a 60 dollar tax cut can very easily equal a 2000 dollar tax increase, same as I did before the election.

But it went over his head, again, but it may have passed a little closer to his hairline this time.

[Edgewater_Joe]

8. It IS What She Voted For, After All

And we do get the goverment we deserve ...

[KitSileya]

9. You know what?

With the immense effort you've been putting in to save the country, I think you have earned the right to not expend an iota of energy sympathizing with those who've willfully ignored, or even contributed to, the predicament on their doorstep.

Keep up the good work, and if you can get a laugh out of those fools, I say take it, there's scant litttle else to alugh at these days.

[radwriter0555]

13. I couldn't agree more. I spent 4 years working so hard to defeat bush and

his crime cabal... I no longer have patience or kindness for the mindless fucks who voted for them. To me, they're ALL gop nazis, every single one.

UHMURRIKKKA under a bush...

Heil bush.

[Demit]

12. I understand--your laughing is of the bitter, not the happy, kind, Ida.

The despairing kind, as in when you tried to warn someone of the consequences of their ignorance, and they blithely continued to ignore the situation. She has children? And she doesn't know what the implications of being Ready Reserve were? How totally tragically fucking irresponsible of both her and her husband.

[IdaBriggs]

19. She didn't know she was still considered "Ready Reserve."

It had been thirteen years, and she was discharged honorably, etc. She explained to me (very patiently) why I didn't know what I was talking about when I warned she and her husband about it initially.

And you are totally right about the type of laughter. :(

[BamaGirl]

31. Do you know anything else about this Ida?

I've been out 9 years and I am NOT in the IRR (I verified this a few years ago). Anyone who was enlisted and not retired, should not be in the IRR after 13 years! I don't blame you for laughing. I did vote for the right guy, and if I get a letter like that not only will I be laughing hysterically, but raising all kinds of hell!

[IdaBriggs]

41. Here's an excerpt from the e-mail I sent them Oct 20th

"Colonel David Hackworth is the MOST decorated soldier from Vietnam. You can read his biography here: http://www.hackworth.com/biography.html (with my point being this guy does NOT play games with ANYONE -- he is on the "confidential tell all" list with EVERYONE in the upper brass in the service).

His website has the following information posted:

PATRIOT NEEDED -- TO PROVIDE DETAILS ON THE PENTAGON'S PLAN TO INCREASE THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT RESERVISTS CAN BE ORDERED ONTO ACTIVE DUTY
SFTT has learned of this plan from an unimpeachable & vetted source, but desires to obtain more details about this new variation of the "backdoor draft." The plan is largely complete, and is set to be announced after the election. Please reply to here. All responses will be handled with max attention to maintaining confidentiality for source(s).

http://www.hackworth.com /

I am sending you this because one of the "rumors" that is flying around is that they are planning on calling back people who have not been active duty in the last TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS. Things that will NOT be taken into account include children or "mild" health concerns; your wife was trained to deal with PTS and (if this is a happening thing) they are going to want her!!! (The Individual Ready Reserve folk include 60 something year old people with heart problems and cancer, and they are still being called up -- granted, these people have medical skills which are in high demand at the moment, but..."
<snip>

There were some posts about it on DU around that time period...sorry, I wish I knew more.

:(

[BamaGirl]

50. Thanks Ida

I was in a high demand MOS of course. x(

[FlaGranny]

62. I'm wondering too

"There are two ways to serve in the US Army: either serve full-time in Active Duty as an Enlisted Soldier or Officer, or serve part-time as an Enlisted Soldier or Officer in the Army Reserve. All Soldiers have a statutory eight-year military service obligation (MSO), which is established at the time of entry into military service (Active or Reserve). Traditional enlistment terms are three, four, five and six years. Terms of service for active duty are from 2-6 years." http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/usar-irr.htm

The obligation is supposedly 8 years. I wonder if that has been changed in the past 30 or so years.

I just got out my husband's papers. He was inducted in 1964 and served 2 years active duty, then he served in the reserves until 1969, when he received his honorable discharge. That is only FIVE years. Does this mean, even though he has been discharged, he is still considered to "owe" 3 more years? He is 65 now, but he served as a medic in the Army. I wonder if he is safe.

Edit: After more research, another site I found states that upon discharge the military service obligation is over. I guess prior to the 1980's the contract was shorter. But I guess anything could be changed with a new law.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. I think you're absolutely right.

Other people here have referred to it as a kind of "tough love". People in this country need to learn to accept the consequences for the choices that they make. Actually, their is a school of thought in child rearing that bases itself on that premise. It's referred to as the "Love and Logic" system. It avoids punishing the child and simply lets the real life consequences of the childs own choices do the teaching.

The so called "party of personal responsibility" needs to start accepting some of it. I think that it should be pointed out to people whenever possible, when they are suffering from something that they themselves voted for.

I would have laughed in their face too. After all, the rest of us also have to suffer from the choices that these people made.

I've gotten pretty damned cold about the whole thing too.

[LisaLynne]

16. I totally understand ...

You're expending a lot of energy in other directions. You tried to tell them. What can you do now for them?

I'm in a similar situation with a friend of mine. Her husband has been in the Reserves for years. He's almost 50. I tried to tell them that he'd probably end up getting called up and sent overseas, but they just scoffed and said they weren't sending 50 year olds, even when I showed them that they were. Well, they went ahead and voted for * and, surprise, surprise, he's getting called up. At first, he thought he wouldn't pass the medical, but he did. Then, he thought he could get to stay in the country working "homeland security" -- like that even happens. But, nope -- He's going to Afghanistan.

And I just can't feel that sorry for him. I just can't. He voted for *. He supports the war. Well, then why the heck shouldn't he go?

I know ... maybe I'm getting cold, too. We can both be ice cubes together. :)

[havocmom]

17. Time to print & carry those handy dandy enlistment forms for chicken hawks

who aren't in the reserves.


http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.pdf

Tell 'em you'll drop them off at the recruiters yourself, to save them the trouble ;)

Zero tolerance for dimbulbs too lazy to read some real news and put 2 and 2 together.

[Iris]

22. Doesn't she watch the news?

When we first invaded Iraq, I saw several stories on the news about women who were expected to report to duty - one just 6 weeks after delivering a child. Some of the women were married, so their husbands were still at home with the kids, but there was one couple who were both in the Army and were both expected to go. They had no living relatives to help them. They MAY have managed to get a deferment for her, but it was a pretty extreme case.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

25. Good for you, Ida

Time for "tough love." Like Molly Ivins says, they have to be made to understand what their vote really means.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. Why would you enable the enablers?

Why offer to take care of their children? YOU warned them. They made their bed now let them lie in it. Let them find someone else to take care of their children. It's THEIR problem now. Don't make their life easy.

You're not cold. I am. :grr:

[lastliberalintexas]

43. I agree

Yes, it's cold. But Ida should have said that she was sure one of the local churches would take care of them. After all, those pseudo-Christians are so very concerned about children, right? Oh, except these are outside the womb...

[VivaKerry]

27. Jesus is going to take care of her children.

Just put the kids on a bus to a red state, and all will be well. After all, she put all of her support behind the red-staters. They will help her.

I am cold too.

this is just one example of exactly HOW this country will come into reality based thinking... each person will have to lose their immunity to the heinous bush policies and wars.
This past election proved to me that SUFFERING, HARDSHIP will be the only thing that will swing this country back to sanity. And so be it. Every bush supporter - direectly or indirectly -- who suffers will be one peg of hope for me.

[Quill Pen]

67. I am sure you're right...

The Red Staters are the ones concerned about saving every prethuth fetuth. I have no doubt that their high regard for the value of human life includes caring for the children of active-duty military personnel.

What?!? Really? Shocking...

[xultar]

28. Serves them right I can't wait for all the Rethugs to get called up

I feel bad for us. But the laugh I get from them getting called up will help me through my depression.

[seabeyond]

29. this is what i ran up against alot. i dont lie

i was staying informed while the people i talked to said they didnt watch news didnt want to know what was up in the world. i would tell them something and they would say, oh no that isnt happening. how the hell do you know, you just told me you dont pay attention. why in the world would i give you the wrong information. all i know and share, does it really sound like i am making it up as i go

so i too am going to laugh at the people i have told and dismissed what i gave. i too am "cold". they earned it, they voted it

[Brewman_Jax]

32. Sounds like my freeper dad

He wouldn't vote for Kerry 'cause he's afraid that "those Dummycrats will take away my guns!" (I can't remember the last time he's been to the firing range.) Then in the next breath, "I can't believe how much my health care premiums have gone up. It was zero about 3 years ago. (He forgot what happened then, hint! ;) ) Now it's almost $300. I don't know what happened?"

I didn't tell him, but you posters know.

My favorite freeper line (a real quote): "I'm gonna homeschool my kids 'cause I don't want him corrupted by those liberal teachers! ...I'm sure glad that I got the 2nd interview, my unemployment runs out in about a month."

Freepers! :dunce: :puke:

[WyLoochka]

34. I support the "cold" approach

wholeheartedly. Bush voters need to have the dots connected between their votes and what is happening to them in their own lives as the fascism kicks into high gear, since they are obviously not able to connect them by themselves.

And they need to seek help from fellow Bush* enablers, not from those who tried to stop them from jumping off the right wing cliff with him, thereby dragging all the rest of us along. All they should get from the 55+ million of us is, "Too bad, reap what you have sown. I will give help, where I can, to those who took a stand with their votes against this fascist regime and are suffering because of your dim-wittedness. You are getting what you asked for, so stew in it!"

[Mad_Dem_X]

37. It's gonna be a long, cold winter

The Rethugs better get ready for it.

[Walt Starr]

35. Shit, you were nice about it. I would have been downright nasty

You know, look at the letter with a note of concern on my countenance followed by a raucus:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

YOU FUCKING MORONIC DIPSHIT FUCKWAD, YOU VOTED FOR THIS SHIT AND NOW YOU HAVE TO WALLOW IN YOUR OWN SHIT THAT YOU VOTED FOR!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You know, something like that.

[yorkiemommie1]

36. doesn't the GOP have a list of their contributors?

time for another call for contributions: this time for a little of 'your time' .... in the Middle East. time for the party faithful to show what they're made of.

a nice flyer in the mail to these folks ought to do it!

[hatrack]

39. "Actions Have Consequences" - Repeat As Often As Necessary

Ida, I understand, and I agree. Apathy exacts a price. So do ignorance and hate.

Your friends are now learning that their actions had consequences. Sounds like an efficient way of teaching them "personal responsibility".

[DS1]

44. If the Draft letter was a turd, I'd rub their faces in it.

:shrug:

[rman]

46. no-one "deserves" it, but some people only have themselves to blame

-

[antigone382]

47. Stupid Hurts

Their kind of stupid should REALLY be painful. It's time to reap what they sowed, and the karma of expecting "others" to sacrifice for their casual choices has returned to them.

Families are forever changed by war. On both sides. * and Condi and Donald act as if it's all some nebulous idea, some virtual game. Here's a dose of reality for some stubborn, stupid people.


Rub it in, Ida. And then rub it in. And rub it in a little more.

Stupid should be painful.

[Toucano]

49. Coldness is understandable now.

I feel it too.

I know, however, that we have to be prepared to forgive our brothers and sisters who failed to PAY ATTENTION and enabled this COUP. We're going to need to work together to rebuild the country.

[Carolina]

51. I agree with you

and if that's cold, then so be it. I feel the same way. If this is what sheeple wanted ... more Bushista policy ... then tough.

I love that "it won't happen to me" notion. That's real repuke of her, as long as shes OK, screw everyone else. Well, the chickens have come home to roost! Ha, ha.

I have no sympathy. In fact, I hope more and more that people like your friend(s) get just what they voted for.

[Cat Atomic]

52. ""But who will take care of our children?"

How about Jesus?

[fob]

53. Tell her to send the kids to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC

I'm sure they'll be ok there.

/madness

[Zorra]

56. Cold? Nah. "Let them eat.....

...republican values"

[callous taoboy]

59. Ka-BLOOOEY!

Good on you. When the first suitcase nuke goes off in an urban center
I plan to poke my head into the office of a colleague and say, "So. National security, eh?" Of course, I DO NOT want this to ever occur.

[Stephanie]

61. The REDS will get what they asked for and they'll get no sympathy from me

If you are not AGAINST Bush, you are WITH him, and complicit. When the REDS get drafted, their kids get drafted, they lose their health insurance and their social security and medicare, when the environment is trashed beyond repair and we are in WWWIII against the entire Muslim world, they better remember that this is what happens when you hand a MAN DATE to a snivelling psychopathic LIAR despite the MANY, MANY warnings we gave, the protests, the books, the articles. Don't come CRYING to me.

Well done Ida.

[rinsd]

64. Hey at least you made yourself feel good...

...if this person was a friend they certainly deserve better than that.

What is this need to slam people the were once considered friends? Everyday someone comes on here telling a story how they ripped a relative/friend. Most of the time what was said crosses a line that intentionally hurts the intended and the howler monkeys here cheer the stories on. It's like a cult, isolation and reinforcement of the group belief.

Surely we are better than that.

Sorry if much of this seems directed at you personally, I am just frustrated with DU right now.

[IdaBriggs]

65. I'm thinking its because we are sick of being the "nice" ones.

You know, the ones who are ignorable because we're "nice" and try to warn people about dangerous situations, like climate change and stuff. We have to worry about "credibility" while repukes can make insane charges against Clinton with ZERO evidence, and known liars are treated with more respect than Novel laureates.

[rinsd]

66. I understand that....

But I still think a calm reasoned word has a much more lasting impact for the positive than anything in a gotcha mode. It feels good temporarily but in the end we alienate those we claim to fight for.

Again, I'm sorry this came up in your thread. You don't deserve any singling out by me. I've just reached my breaking point.

I was talking with a guy in the bar the other day about the election and what was wrong. And someone who wasn't even near the conversation simply shouts out that anyone who voted for Bush is retarded. Now it may have felt good to that person but most of the bar reacted with "geez what an asshole". Not because of the message but the messenger.

[rasbobbo]

74. i tend to agree with you r

friends, family & neighbors deserve some empathy. i would be inclined toward letting these people figure it out themselves. the kids certainly didn't do anything that would warrant a trip to the orphanage. sometimes the less strident you are the wiser you appear.

[Carolina]

68. nope, we're not better than that

we're pissed and we're not gonna take it anymore. We worked, fought and even prayed to end this regime. We were up against apathy, ignorance and greed. Now the chickens have come home to roost and hell, yeah, we feel damn good when Reds "benefit" from their votes.

DU is our refuge and if these kinds of threads bother you, then ignore 'em. Frankly, though, they are a much needed tonic for me.

Signed: Sophia Patrillo, the crusty old lady I aspire to be!

[ieoeja]

69. I didn't get to smack down mine.

Around the 1st of October he received notice he was being reactivated November 2nd (election day!) after 9 years out. It has been delayed while they re-run his security clearance which left him plenty of time to get to the polls this last election. For some reason he decided to vote Democratic after having voted straight Republican his entire previous life.

[Quill Pen]

70. Military personnel with children

I think that's about as generous an offer as one could ever make, to take care of another couple's kids while they were in the military.

I don't think anyone deserves to be drafted, (I hate this war as much as anyone else here) and after being off active duty for 13 years, I can see where they would have figured it was all right to start their family. Their oldest child is older than the war, after all.

But I would not want to see military personnel get exemptions from service just for choosing to have kids. The idea that childless soldiers are somehow more expendable is repellent to me. I don't think parenthood should put one in a protected class.

It would be tragic if something happened to those parents, and I'd weep for their kids along with all the other kids I've wept for this past year and a half, both Iraqi and American, civilian and military. But this is the job they signed up for, and they cannot pretend that they don't understand the sacrifices it entails, not at this point. And, as you say, at least one of them voted to "stay the course" of this unconscionable act of aggression. Feeding our brave and able-bodied into this horrific meat grinder is all part of "staying the course."

[Gloria]

71. See this thread: PET Scans Show Revenge Can Be Satisfying....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2743010

[shockra]

73. Ummm...

Is everybody forgetting that Kerry was pro-Iraq war, and that he said he'd send more troops?