Dear Liberal Hater

[m berst]

An open letter to some of the visitors to DU.

Dear Liberal Hater,

What possible legitimate interest could you have in arguing with liberals? What could you possibly have to offer on any subject that would be of interest or value? Why are you so curious that you feel compelled to spy and eavesdrop? If you are so confident in your take on reality, why do you feel the need to continually reassure yourself by jumping in when liberals are talking and calling attention to yourself? I don't feel a need to go into a right wing group and make an ass and a nuisance out of myself in order to buttress my confidence in my own views, and then pat myself on the back when I have made a bunch of people angry. I have no interest in visiting and reading most right wing boards - not because I "disagree" with the people there - but because there is never anything new or interesting at them. You certainly must know by now that you don't persuade any liberals to your point of view with your tactics. It is only out of kindness and courtesy that you are tolerated at all by liberals. What is your point? What is motivating you?

Is there any part of your so-called philosophy that can stand on its own two feet, so to speak? Or does it require "liberals" to bash around and ridicule for it to hold together and make any sense? It seems that you need us WAY more than we need you. We would leave you alone, gladly, and you could go about your business and believe anything you wanted to believe and we would never bother you. But you, and your compatriots in this cult of ridicule and invective can't seem to exist on your own, and need to be bothering and hassling someone else all the time to complete your political existence and feel whole.

It is a sign of a very weak and cowardly mind and a very questionable philosophy, when a person needs to go hunt down imaginary opposition to pester and infuriate as an "expression" of their "opinion."

You have made your point - which is basically that anything any liberal says is wrong. Point made, thank you for imposing it on us, and enjoy the rest of your life. Should you continue to hang around, I would like to find out what it really is that you so desperately need from us. What is it that is missing in your life? If your reality is all it is cracked up to be, why not go live it and enjoy it?

You are very fortunate that we listen to you at all, or take the time to answer you, as I am here. You seem to crave this attention, and behind the swaggering I suspect you are a lonely and confused person finding strength and self-identity by having someone to torment. You may make a mess of things and thereby get the attention you desire and disrupt the conversation, but is that not equivalent to a noisy and unruly child seeking attention from the grown ups by being as obnoxious as possible? Is it not revealing emptiness and loneliness and neediness on your part when you do this? Why not go enjoy your beautiful "philosophy" with those of like mind? Why can't you live without us? If you need us so much, and so want our company, then why mistreat us? Can you see the contradiction in your behavior?

What would Coulter and Hannity and Limbaugh talk about if there were no liberals? yet they say they want to eliminate liberals. Note - Coulter says "eliminate liberals" not "eliminate liberalism" - big difference. The latter may be genuinely political. The former says more about the speaker than it does about the targets. Why is she so obsessed with liberals?

Why don't we just ignore all of you? I mean, it isn't like you have anything to say that we haven't heard a million times. We listen to you because so many of us are courteous and have a sense of fair play and decency. Yet you abuse that. You are equating "liberal" with "terrorist" and "traitor" and "anti-American" - yet you could not do that if any of it were true. The fact that we listen to your insults and calmly respond to you PROVES that we aren't what you say we are.

How about we starve you of the attention and companionship from us that you seem to be so dependent on?

You remind me of the lonely bachelor son, who as an adult complains about Mom's cooking, but keeps showing up at dinner time for a free meal, but never offers to do the dishes.

Hey! If you really hate liberals, why do you keep hanging with them? And, if you DON'T hate liberals, why are you parroting the talking points of those who say they do? Here is a scary thought - are we to suppose that Coulter, Limbaugh, and Hannity represent the first line of defense against fanatical fundamentalist terrorists???

Another thought - if, as you say "everything changed on 9-11" and we are under terrible and continual threat from terrorists, then why on earth are you wasting so much time fighting the half of the American population that doesn't happen to agree with you politically?

Are we supposed to take on the whole Moslem world and at the same time get rid of half of our OWN population because THEY are "terrorists" too? At what point do we call this emotional immaturity rather than a "political philosophy?"

[KC_25]

1. well,

Not that I have anything to hide...
There are alot of new poeple here, and not all of us are Freeps, but I for one am afraid to post anything that disagrees with anyone who has over 500 posts..you know why?
it is because of the "alert" or "you freeper" that is so quickly handed out. There is a lot of great discussion here, but it mostly entails the older folks, as in post count, because if a noob disagrees, he/she gets modded and banned.
It is interesting to watch.
Maybe they take some comfort in that. Maybe they spy to see the in-fighting and to capitilize on it... maybe they stir the pot with wild threads and then spread the word about "how nuts" DUers are.
We have not been the most kind people to average americans at time, and our "well, we really know whats best for you" attitude doesn't sit well with alot of them.
The way that we police and purge our own ranks there is no need for them to do it...
We are tearing ourselves apart... and in doing so we are becoming what we hate.

[The Traveler]

3. Be peaceful, new one

We are not tearing each other apart. We are communicating emotion, information, and thought in a free manner ... often a messy process. Don't invest too much of your ego in this.

If you stand against the emerging facism, then you will find welcome from many here. If you do not, then we are opponents. Time will tell the tale for us both. It is that simple.

And while you may not be one, there are many who support the emerging facism that DO come here. If what we do here is important to you, you will bear with folk until you are well known enough to be trusted a little bit.

[KC_25]

5. Well I need help actually ...

Schwarzenegger is trying to repeal the law (forgive me if i dont know all by heart) that keeps the patient to nurse ratio down. My wife is a nurse and that bothers me. One it obviously increases the workload on the nurses... and 2, when that happens med errors and other mistakes increase greatly...my wife is supposed to get me the information about what he is trying to do, and how he is trying to do it...meanwhile... I was wondering if anyone here knew anything about it..or could start a thread, so as to not hi-jack the great letter in this one.

[The Traveler]

7. I can't help you there ... would you like me to top post this for you?

[KC_25]

10. Well 2 things with that...

I dont know exactly what you mean...

and I dont have the information about what he is trying to do exactly...she told me this morning about it when she got home from work, and she is supposed to give more information when she gets home from work tomorrow...

My google attempts all turned up old, as in last year this time, information... so i guess, unless someone knows something about it, I need to wait.

Thanks though!

[m berst]

8. patient to nurse ratio in California

http://www.dailybreeze.com/opinion/articles/1216266.html

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041119/news_lz1ed19bottom.html

http://www.vvdailypress.com/2001-2003/10696333329676.html

What is you take on it, kc? Don't worry about hijacking the thread.

[KC_25]

11. My take on it is..

That the nurse to patient ratio law should be repealed in favor of even more stringent ratio laws.
Patient care is directly affected by how stressed the nurses that take care of them are. My wife works on a stepdown unit, DOU or direct observation unit...when she comes home from work, wondering if everything actually was completed, or 3 hours late after a 12 hour shift..it makes me think that something has to be done.
And not just for her sake...but for the patients as well. What if a nurse is so stressed that he/she forgets to give a pre-op ABX, or miscalculates a vaso-active drip?
I am a nurse as well, but I work in a physicans office as a supervisor. I spent 3 years as an ICU staff nurse.. 3 patients a shift and 2 of them on a ventilator...there are far to many things that could go wrong in that scenario.
Another interesting thing about CA and nursing is the misuse of the resource known as LPN/LVNs. My wife states that they cant even give piggyback IV ABX???
While LVNs do not have the education, which btw is mostly theory that they lack..(yes i know that BSNs and ADNs have more patho-phys as well) but they have experience and can certainly be trained to be more than a pill pusher....
A whole different issue that needs to be tackled, pay rates for nurses, you want to talk about abyssmal? For that work that is done, the lives that are affected and stress that is caused, nurses are grossly undercompensated...

and that really just scratches the surface..

[m berst]

12. it is a national disgrace

The way nurses are being treated around the country is shameful.

You may be aware of the bitter battle that nurses have been up against with Northern Michigan Hospital in my neck of the woods.

This AP story from back during the campaign talks about it.

<snip>
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. - John Kerry is supporting registered nurses at a Michigan hospital who have been on strike for 17 months, saying their plight shows how federal law favors employers in labor disputes.

"I was outraged to learn that Northern Michigan Hospital refuses to act in good faith with you," the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee said in a letter to the strikers dated Tuesday.
</snip>

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/business/personal_finance/debt_management/loans/8433717.htm

[m berst]

13. maybe tomorrow

One of us can start a new thread on the crisis in California for you. Put your thoughts together for an opening post and put them here. There are quite a few people here who are more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.

Mike

[Zinfandel]

9. My wife is a RN and her patient load is disgraceful!!!!

The residents as they are refered to get the worse of it and the nurses who care, work harder and harder with a lot less help and their license's are on the line. But these corporations don't care about the nurse's nor the paients...just profits!!! They have cut my wife's benefits to almost nothing, took away vacation pay, etc...

These are professionals and they are treated like Wal-Mart employees (who get screwed every which way themselves)...We live in Humboldt Co. and the corporation is this shithole company called Foothill Ranch Corporation out of Orange County way down south!!!

Shameful & disgracful...and these republican's like Arnold will give the corporations what they want...to cut the ratio even more for their own greedy self interest!

[m berst]

4. naw

Not too worry. Only a few people here bite and I survived all of their bites. I am relatively new myself.

I waited until I had 800 posts before I started a thread, and I show respect (I hope) to the people who have been here a long time.

I have posted extensively on 10 boards, and a few times on another 40 or so. DU is one of the most friendly by far, and has the best people.

There are some people who are pretty aggressive with their language, but seriously - have you ever seen what goes on at the other boards? If people here were any less suspicious the board would be over run by bad actors in no time and the value of the board would be ruined for everyone.

I can't imagine anyone who is really a Democrat that has stronger opinions than I do, or is more at odds with much of the prevailing party wisdom, yet I post freely without anyone seriously attacking me.

[Swamp Rat]

6. Ahh Grasshopper, you know a lot yet you have much to learn

Welcome to DU! ;)

[The Traveler]

2. Ann Coulter and the others

speak the language of genocide using barely coded terms. My hope is that rational discourse between liberal and conservative may be restored to politics. My fear is that these fools will take us to that place where brother slays brother, father slays son, mother slays daughter ...

Civil war is not inevitable. But the dynamics seem to be steering us in that tragic direction.

Coulter and her kind or so naieve. They expect liberals to go gently into that good night because many of us are pacifists. Being a pacifist means that one believes in investing heavily in the structures of peace, not that one will stand by idly while one's neighbors are being dragged away to the camps.

The deepest passion for peace is reserved for the fiercest of warriors. That is true of the pacifists here, even though they don't believe it. My hope is they never have to discover this truth about themselves. Remember the Deacons for Defense.