Chilling statistic just heard on radio

[CatWoman]

During his 21 year reign, Saddam Hussein killed, or had killed approximately 300 thousand Iraqis.

In just 8 months, the United States, either directly or indirectly, is responsible for the deaths of 100 thousand Iraqis.

Liberation my ass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Hey you have to admit it, we are efficient

:-(

[rainbow4321]

27. And those we don't kill, we starve....

http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-iside23.html


Since the March 2003 invasion, malnutrition among children between the ages of 6 months and 5 years old has grown from 4 percent to 7.7 percent, said Jon Pedersen, deputy managing director of the Oslo, Norway-based Fafo Institute for Applied Social Science, which conducted the survey.

The U.N. Development Program and Iraq's Central office for Statistics and Information Technology also took part in the study.

[krkaufman]

30. And the 100,000 number from that study...

... doesn't include the thousands who died during the economic embargo of the 1990s. Who's to blame for those deaths, resulting from the embargo?

[CatWoman]

32. what pisses me off

is that anyone who corrects the record is labeled a "Saddam apologist"

[rabbit2484]

43. Not to mention the weapons we sold them

[nashville_brook]

2. a more efficient genocide n/t

[radwriter0555]

3. There is no proof nor any witnesses to any such allegations committed by

saddam hussein.

Lots of stories, but none from actual iraqis with any credibility.

Seems all the stories came from US sources.

[Tempest]

9. U.S. sources, or Iraqi dissidents living in London

Almed Chalabi, for example.


So far, only 5,000 bodies have been found in mass graves, and there's no proof Saddam had anything to do with many of them.

Several are suspected of being Kurdish created mass graves.

[Bozita]

13. How about Chalabi's own mediawhore, Judith Miller?

[goclark]

28. Wow! I did not realize

the part about US sources providing the info!

I really believed that wide spread Iraqi people hated there leader and remembered thousands of their relatives that he killed.

Are you telling me that just maybe Saddam was leading his country just about the way that Bush leads his?

It would be ironic if they held elections and Saddam was elected again.

Could that happen?

[purduejake]

36. Saddam was a bad guy....

but Saudi Arabia is probably just as brutal. They both hack off limbs and endorse killing people out of intolerance. I just don't get it.

[jmowreader]

44. Saudi Arabia is worse

Remember back when Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban and how terrible it was for Afghanis? Guess where they got their ideas.

Just think of the Saudis as a slightly milder version of the Taliban--while the Saudis enforce strict segregation of males and females like the Taliban did, the Saudis at least allow children to attend school and women to get medical attention.

The weirdest thing is, while we're running around over there blowing people up attempting to bring democracy to Iraq, what was there before we went in was a strange mix of democracy and totalitarianism. Totalitarian because Saddam's goon squad brutally enforced the official secularity of Iraqi society; democratic because that brutally-enforced secularity meant women could work outside the home, chador was not required dress, Tariq Aziz could be a Christian, schools were integrated (boys and girls sitting next to each other in the same classrooms)...

We all know Saddam was an asshole and ruthless as hell, but of all the dictators in the Middle East he was the least bad. In the part of Iraq he could keep under control, people actually seemed to like the guy.

[gaia_gardener]

52. I've wondered about those mass graves

Forgive my ignorance here. I know that in many areas mass graves are used when there is a disease of plague proportions. During the sanctions, medical care was restricted, could some of these graves be from disease?

Also, in the 20s Tulsa, OK had a major race riot. Mass graves were employed to bury the people killed during that riot. The government's role in that riot was minimal (clearly there were things they could have done and didn't, but they didn't cause it and they didn't add to the death tolls). I've heard that the tensions between the kurds, the sunnis and the shiites can be extreme. Is it possible that some of these mass graves were from classes between the factions?

I'm not sure what you mean by "Kurdish created mass graves". Do you mean a clash between the kurds and another faction, or a way of dealing with their dead in an efficient manner (I've heard of some cultures not caring about individual gravesites and just burying their dead together until there is no more room)?

[Eric J in MN]

4. What radio station? NT

NT

[Bozita]

10. Radiopower.org

http://linux.redbird.com:8000/listen.pls

[CatWoman]

12. radiopower.org

the same station that broadcasts Thom Hartman.

[Straight Shooter]

5. Don't forget our complicity in Iran-Iraq War

Also our manipulation of events for Gulf War I. And that's just in that little part of the world.

Nobody in the world can compete with the U.S. when you add up the dead and who is to blame.

Now let's factor in those who have died from AIDS because we didn't intervene, those who have died from starvation, or malnutrition which leads to inability to fight off diseases.

Godless America.

[VivaKerry]

6. We are topping Saddam across the spectrum.

Under saddam, kids went to school. Safely, at that.

Whole neighborhoods didn't get blown to smitherenes.

They had water and electricity. Clean water. Continuous electricity.

Everyone went to college -- even the reviled kurds (reviled by saddam, that is).

Oh we have liberated them all right. A pox on us.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. And this went on while we were enforcing 12 years of sanctions...

...that resulted in the totally needless deaths of thousands of children because of the lack of proper medicines.

[VivaKerry]

16. I know. We totally created saddam...

we even gave him a green light to invade kuwait, which led to the gulf war, which led to the sanctions.

we are no friend to the iraqi people. I think they are realizing that. (understatement)

[UNIXcock]

19. Oh, BULLSHIT...

... damn Saddam apologists, always trying to paint a picture of a kinder, gentler dictator. He killed his own people by the score. I suppose Hitler was a good guy too because he fostered a flourishing economy as well - and he never even personally killed a Jew either! :eyes:

[Union Thug]

26. Right, it's always better to kill other peoples' people by the score.

And their little dogs, too!

Murder is murder, whether it's at the hands of a cowardly cowboy 5000 miles away, or from some US supported dictator.

[CatWoman]

29. The reporter who divulged those facts, Dar Jamal

was reporting from Iraq.

He stated that the number the Republican media keeps throwing out there (in the millions) just cannot be verified.

Regardless, who are we to play the "liberator" role, when we are killing so many of the "liberated" for no rhyme or reason? Other than we want their oil?

And where's all those WMD we were supposedly "liberating" from Saddam?

I'm not a Saddam "apologist". I'm a human who is smart enough to see through the bullshit.

[fnottr]

54. Of course Saddam was a murderous bastard

This is news to no one. The point is that we are supposed to be the 'good guys' and our campaign is just as deadly as Saddam's, if not moreso. No, I don't believe we've approached the same level of barbarism of Saddam, but the end result is that we're killing innocent people at a much faster rate than during Saddam's regime. I though we were supposed to be better than that.

[barb162]

47. The Shiites had their water diverted and their area of Iraq turned to

desert by Saddam , from the things I have heard. A lot of Shiites died from that little trick. Also, there was no love lost between the Kurds and Saddam.

Now how many people died under Saddam? I give up. I don't think we will ever know the answer to that. At the same time I refuse to believe anything coming from our news sources right now and the last few months.

Do you really think Everyone went to college? We do know that Saddam and his sons had an awful lot of palaces

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. And the more propaganda you hear from our "free" press,...

...the more you have to question the information they report on Saddam.

The real number was probably closer to 30,000...but we'll never know for sure, will we?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. How many children wasted as a direct result of the sanctions and don't

forget that many birth defects possibly caused by DU are deadly as well.
Six-year-old Fatma Rakwan, being held by her mother at the Basra Hospital for Maternity and Children, was recently diagnosed with leukemia. (November 12, 2002) Paul Kitagaki Jr. / P-I

http://www.fair.org/extra/0111/iraq.html
Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

[Union Thug]

31. Right, and none of those numbers had anything to do with a war..

that the US essentially underwrote by playing one side off the other... nothing at all.

[Solitaire]

8. hi CatWoman

cute cats and I was wondering if you could tellme how to get a picture in a post. I can't figure it out!

thanks ;)

[CatWoman]

15. sure

:D

right click on the photo, and choose "properties"

copy the properties address, and paste into your text.

[Solitaire]

17. ooooh..

that won't work for me. Don't have a right-button on my mouse.

I use a Mac.

Hmmm, I'll have to think about how to do it.

Thank you! :)

[CatWoman]

18. Why don't you post a thread in the lounge?

I'll bet you'll get a speedy answer to your inquiry. Always works for me :hi:

[Solitaire]

41. thank you!!

I've actually been to the Mac Users Group here and will ask.

Thanks all for the speedy responses.

:hi:

[Bozita]

20. Try DU's own Mac User Group forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=233

[CatWoman]

21. Bozita

is the something you DON'T know????

:hi:

[Bozita]

23. just found the MUG a couple of days ago

lotsa new places here at DU for getting lost

kudos to Skinner and the guys

[alfredo]

39. Click -control

a window will pop up. Select copy link to clipboard. (Hold the mouse button down and hold down the control at the same time.)


Then paste it where you want.

Logitech makes some nice cheap multi button mice, but they lack the beauty and elegance of the Apple mouse. You should see how fast graphics pros can work with that one button mouse.

[Solitaire]

48. thank you!!

when I had time, I was going to play. I figured it was something like that.

Thanks so much.

Actually, I agree, I'll stick with my lovely little optical "elegant" mouse.

Thanks, again :)

[alfredo]

51. Your welcomed

here's a couple good places for software.

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/
http://www.macupdate.com/
http://osx.hyperjeff.net/ good guy, and on our side.

[jmowreader]

45. Press the control key on the keyboard and click

Control-click in any Mac web browser equals right-click on a PC.

Or you could buy a PC USB mouse for ten bucks and have a real right-click.

[Solitaire]

49. thank you to you too, jmowreader, but..

I will stick with my mouse.

:)

[jmowreader]

53. So will I

One of the reasons I like Macs is that the mouse only has one button on it.

I hold my mouse with the cable coming away from my hand at about the 10:00 position. It's more comfortable that way. If I used a two-button mouse, my "left-button" finger would be sitting on the right button.

I offered the two-button mouse suggestion because far too many people scream that Macs don't have two-button mice. My response: "Well, go buy one!" The PC person whose computer has the mouse that came with it on it is few and far between because the average PC builder uses a mouse that costs twenty-four cents.

[Auntie Bush]

56. Like this?

Gee I did it! First time I ever posted a picture.

[Union Thug]

22. I'm not afraid to say it....

Iraqis were better off under Saddam than they are under the current US occupation and puppet government.

There. It is done. Flame if you must.

[CatWoman]

24. no flames from me

I agree with you 200%

[elehhhhna]

25. Ironically, yes.

[dkofos]

37. No flame from me.

I happen to agree with you.

Just keep watching and see what kind of person wins the election Jan.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KnowerOfLogic]

33. We're making our own mass graves over there. But i'm sure

those people were all guilty and they'll thank us in the end.

[__Inanna__]

34. Republican logic

When I mentioned that 100K Iraqi civilians have been killed by the U.S. in this war, one republican commented...

"Well, Saddam killed 300K."

Yeah, but at least we're bringing freedom..............

[Carl Brennan]

35. I wonder if the figure for Saddam included the war with Iran in the

80's?

If it does then it is a bogus statistic regarding Saddam.

[against all enemies]

38. Another successful Crusade. Do they love us yet?

[billyoc]

40. "We kill more people before 7 am"

"Than most regimes kill all DAY!"

[shesemsmom]

46. Gosh, didn't we DO GOOD

saving them from themselves

[Cleita]

50. I'm speechless.

:cry:

[prolesunited]

55. Just think

at this rate we will win in three more years.

Unfortunately, so many are willing to shrug their shoulders and say that they needed killing or that this is simply the price of freedom.