How did Raygun win 49 states?

[Hippo_Tron]

I wasn't alive at the time so for those who were, I'm curious about that whole election. Today we have some very clear red states and blue states. The concept of California and the entire Northestern corner with the exception of New Hampshire and maybe New Jersey going to a Republican Presidential Candidate is completely absurd. At the same time, the idea of states like Utah, Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, Idaho, Mississippi, Alabama, and Texas going to a Democratic Presidential Candidate is absurd as well. So what was going on in 1984 and even in the 1988 election with Bush I's landslide over Dukakis? Were there no red states and blue states? It just seems like no matter how bad your candidate is, there are states that will vote red and states that will vote blue, no matter what. What was going on back then?

[giasangria]

1. Maybe they were starstruck? n/t

[Warpy]

17. He got his first term for a number of reasons

First and foremost, he promised the suckers an across the board tax cut, which sounded great to people who couldn't add and subtract.

The runaway inflation during the Carter years (because Nixon and Ford had failed to act in time to reduce the impact of the OPEC oil shocks)had hit the middle class especially hard, as the percentage they paid in income taxes kept going up, even as their wages were outpaced by the inflation. I don't think you can manage to convey to anyone who wasn't alive then what a disaster it all was.

The hawks hated Carter because of what they perceived as his inaction in freeing the hostages in Iran. Never mind that Reagan/Bush were stabbing him in the back on that one, making secret deals to sell them military gear in return for the hostages AFTER the election.

The progressives had largely deserted Carter because he was weak on choice, weak on labor rights, and had turned the drug war away from rehab and toward interdiction and punishment. They voted for John Anderson as a protest vote.

Carter's 4 years had been a disaster. Most of it hadn't been his fault, but just enough had been to split the Dem vote and give us Reagan. The DNC/DLC, in their combined wisdom, still haven't figured out why.

[Lenape85]

25. I did some calculations

I calculated the Carter vote + Anderson vote in several states and had those who voted for Anderson voted for Carter, he would have had 204 electoral votes.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[offcenter]

2. I dunno

I was one of about two people in NJ who voted for Mondale.
Couldn't stand Raygun.

[Lenape85]

16. My father voted for Mondale

Pure union man

[Anarcho-Socialist]

3. It could have been that more people 'voted for the man' than for the party

in the 1980s. Whereas today there is a more ideological split.

That's just a guess though. Also I know that at the time that the media hero-worshipped Reagan and gave him a free pass like they did with Bush*.

[Ruffhowse]

4. Your average Joe American six pack was as stupid and ignorant then

as he is now.

[giasangria]

5. back then, I think most of the south was blue states

Not sure, but my grandmother(voted for Kerry!) has lived in alabama all her life (she is in her eighties) and she told me that the whole area here was total democrats until reagan came along and that is when it started to change. Also, alot of the reasons for the south being democrats may have been race-related. I think the democrats of the civil rights era were more like the repubs of today.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Yea I know about that part, some dems were pretty anti civil rights

I think you had two wings of the party, the liberal wing and the southern white supremecist wing. That's why we controlled congress for 50 years, because we had all of these white supremecist congressmen caucusing with the dems. It didn't do us much good considering that while we managed to generally get decent people in the white house (when we did at all that is) The House was still under the control of conservatives.

[Wright Patman]

22. 1964 was the key election

Goldwater, who was painted as an extremist conservative and even went around saying 'extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice,' carried about six or seven states in the Deep South along with his own state of Arizona.

That was the year the Southerners switched parties because LBJ had just rammed through the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[Silverhair]

33. No, the South was already red. N/T

[giasangria]

36. in the 1976 election the South all went Democrat

in 1972 only Massachusetts and D.C. went Democrat, wow. In 1968 most of the south voted for George Wallace LOL.

[OneTwentyoNine]

6. Promised everyone a fat ass tax cut--just like Bush does.

And the fact that Mondale said he would have to raise taxes to offset the unbelievable deficits that we were running back then,which pale compared to what Bush is running.

Reagan cut taxes for the rich fucks and raised them on working class people all the while laying off about 10 million. So what did they do,they voted for the doddering old fool again in 84.

[Shadowen]

7. There are a few reasons I can think of.

First, as to your California/Texas question/assertion: Reagan had been governor of California, and from what I understand an astoundingly popular one, too. California has elected Republican governors before, and continues to do so today, when they're particularly popular (read: former actors) people beforehand. I imagine that, say, a Democratic judge could become quite the popular governor of Texas, even if he was openly in favor of gay rights and civil unions (though I doubt he would be able to do it if he were in favor of gay marriage), so long as he was "tough on crime" (read: pro-death penalty) and a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment. From there, who knows? Maybe he could become one of the few Democratic presidents to win the presidency with Texas.

Second, his 49-state victory was his second term, so he and the media had his first term to build up a massive fucking cult of personality around him.

That's all I can contribute. Anyone else?

[DBoon]

13. CA was heading rightward at this time

After Jerry Brown, we had repub governors, and for a while a repub controlled legislature. White suburban reaction against minorities and having taxes pay for programs supporting minorities.

What turned this around (IMHO) was the anti-immigrant prop 187. Really got the Hispanics organized to turn out an vote and get involved in politics. Previously, even folks who were citizens just did not vote in large numbers.

Now we can actually pass school bond issues.

[K-W]

8. Lying.

Same old song and dance.

[UNIXcock]

9. For years, the majority of this country embraced true conservatism ...

... but what today's Republicans try to pass off as Goldwater/Reagan styled conservatism is anything but

[miss_kitty]

10. Reagan was declared the winner before the polls closed across America

It was early in the day. People just did not bother to vote after that out west.

The red blue thing is a new invention.

Dukakis's ass was handed to him due to Rovian tactics. And Dem incompetence.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[cliss]

28. An interesting thread.

Now there's an interesting concept that I haven't read much about....Reagan & cheating. I wonder if Reagan cheated his way to victory. Is there any information in the exit polls that would indicate fraud?

Voter fraud is not new. It's probably been around as long as the ballot box. I read about how the Old Sidewinder Lyndon Johnson cheated and won in Texas.

And if you think about it, most of the bastards around Bush II got their start during the Reagan era.....some even go back to Nixon. Like cockroaches that scurried up into the innards of the refrigerator as the Raid can was hauled out, we were unable to rid ourselves of the likes of Rove, Wolfowitz, RumsFailed, Cheney and the rest of them.

Maybe they learned their craft back then?

[miss_kitty]

29. practice makes perfect.

plus the Iran hostage situation, Perot's failed rescue attempt of the hostages, and the Thug's apparent agreement to release the hostages upon Reagan's swearing in...

[Silverhair]

34. Perot's failed rescue attempt????? Please explain.

Perot did have two of his guys that were in an Iranian jail. They were not in the hostage group. Perot did rescue his own men. He never attempted a large scale rescue. Not only that, but the rescue of his men was done by trickery instead of violence. No casualties.

[miss_kitty]

35. oh sorry

I guess I mis-remembered. I thought I heard something on Perot trying to get them out, and failing. Glad he was successful there. My Bad...

:spank: :spank: :spank:

[autorank]

11. We sucked and he got the union vote...hmmm...

[Yupster]

12. I know what you mean hippo

Even in 1932, at the height of the Depression, Hoover, running for reelection won six states against FDR. You'd think49 states just couldn't happen, especially since Reagan was really hated by so many, and was really showing some age.

I also don't think Mondale was a particularly awful candidate, an old line type kind of like a Democratic Bob Dole.

I heard Lynn Nofzinger on tv years ago blaming Nancy Reagan for losing Minnesota, the only state Reagan lost. He said a week before the election, a California poll only showed Reagan up by 5-6 points in California. Nancy panicked and ordered the campaign to divert ad money to all-expensive California. Nofzinger said the campaign was sure the poll was a bad one, but he pulled off the air in Minnesota and lost it by a point or two and coasted in California.

[lapfog_1]

14. Mondale was one of the worst candidates ever

plus, the economy was doing fine (well, no really, but it seemed
fine at the time, later there was the market crash and the S&L
scandal), plus Raygun talked to right but was more of a centrist
than his rhetoric. Of course, some of his cabinet appointments
were fundie, but Ronald wasn't a captured tool of the wingnuts.
Plus, according to many people that met him, he was a nice guy.

[seito]

15. My first election

Bush I vs Dukakis.

This is what I recall

Well, the repukes were able to successfully frame Dukakis as someone that cared more about the criminals than protecting the people.

Dukakis opposed the death penalty, and failed to give an acceptable answer when he was asked something about what he would do if his wife was raped and murdered during the debates.

Then came the Willie Horton issue. The repukes were able to use race and crime to drive a wedge into the democratic base. Willie Horton was a black man that raped a white woman while on a furlough.

In the end, Dukakis was unable to successfully counter the attacks.

[James T. Kirk]

18. The reason: Carter

Reagan offered a total difference from Carter's plan. I was alive then, and with the exception of Star Wars, the late 70s were pretty malaise-y.

[WI_DEM]

21. you mean Reagan offered "feel good" in exchange for making

hard decisions but the right decisions. Carter's energy program was setting us on the right direction. It is worth remembering that during Reagan's first two years this country was mired in the worst recession since the great depression with unemployment rising to more than 10%. That is what dropped the inflation and interest rates, not the magical Reagan tax cuts--all they did was add to the debt.

[WI_DEM]

20. Times change, look up presidential elections in a book

and you'll see that the Dems haven't always had a lock on the northeast and the pacific coast. California went Republican in every presidential election from 1952 to 1992 except for 1964. Washington went Republican in every presidential election from 1952-1984 except for 1964 and 1968. Oregon the same story except it also went republican in '68. New Jersey was Republican in every presidential election from 1968-1988, Connecticut republican in every presidential election from 1972-1988. Illinois Republican in every presidential election from 1968-1988.

This blue/red thing is a relatively new phenonmenon. The South has gotten increasingly Republican but the northeast/west has gotten increasingly Democratic.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. I understand that the democrats didn't always have a lock on those states

BUT I thought that the Democrats as well as teh Republicans always had a number of safe states, despite the fact that they are not the same states as they are today. But I guess you are right about the red/blue states thing.

[oly]

23. Civil rights and affirmative action backlash.

[Zynx]

24. Two words: Dukakis, Mondale

'Nuff said.

[Gregorian]

27. He sounded humble. And religious.

He suckered my Democrat dad. But not for long.

And he started out very humble, but quickly turned, or was turned, to a dark side.

All image. Just some Americans are suckered every time.

[Killarney]

31. Mondale ran on a platform of raising taxes for everyone.

It's a losing platform, then and now.

[Silverhair]

32. Several Reasons.

An incumbent President ALWAYS has an edge.

Reagan had a high approval rating.

Reagan had superb speaking skills.

He promised a tax increase.

During the Cold War national security was usually the main issue. Ever since McGovern, that issue has favored the Republicans.

He was associated with Carter. Although it isn't popular to say it around here, Carter was a failed President. His approval rating in 1980 were in the 30's. The Soviet Empire had gained a lot of territory, the Iranians were holding the hostages, the economy was terrible, and Carter told the country that, "Americans had a malaise." People viewed Mondale as Carter II.

The manner in which Mondale chose Ferraro hurt him. In the primaries, to try to get the women's vote he said that he would consider a woman for his VP. If, after that statement he had chosen a male, he would have been seen as lying, and would have lost support. Picking her for VP is what I call a multiplier move. If you are already strong, it serves to demonstrate your strength, and makes you stronger still. But if you are behind already, (And he was.) then it looks like a desperation move, and puts you further behind. Mondale made this image even worse by the pictures in his campaign posters. They showed Ferraro larger and in front of Mondale. The whole thing made it look like his campaign was looking to her to rescue it. People don't vote for candidates that they perceive as wanting to be rescued.

Add it all together and it equaled a super landslide for Reagan. However he did not have great coattails. We kept control of the house. So this was a personal victory for Reagan more than a party victory for the Republicans.

[Newshues]

37. good call

Add to that the "There you go again...." from the debates as one more nail. I mean, you know a politician scored political points in the debates when the phrase enters popular usage across demographics in less than 48 hours.

Wife of a buddy of mine is an alzemers nurse. She knew in '86 that he was ill.

[fnottr]

38. I wasn't aware of politics then either

But from talking to my parents and reading history, I think the reason he was so popular is going into the 80s the cold war had been dragging on and on and on and on. He promised a quick end to it, in addition to being very charismatic. Going into '84 he was still seen as the man to get this shit with the Russians over for good. Let's face it, if he did one thing right, it's that he bullshitted the Soviets into spending all their money on the military, and hastened their fall. Certainly he didn't bring it about all alone, but he did speed it up.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. It was more Gorbachev's doing...

He pretty much set the Soviet Union on a course of self-destruction, largely due to the fact that he actually allowed some measure of political dissent for the first time. Also, to consider what Reagan did as good, you have to accept the notion that even in hindsight, the Soviet Union spreading its influence over Eastern Europe and Asia was actually a threat to the American way of life. One of the reasons that I love Carter is because he believed that we could end the cold-war diplomatically. Of course, Raygun painted him as being "weak on communism".

[fnottr]

41. this is true

Although I think that Gorbachev and Reagan kinda played along with each other from the start. Gorbachev realized the Soviet experiment wasn't exactly working well, and wanted to try and end it. Reagan, on the other hand, wanted to make America and 'American Freedom'(tm) look good, so he was happy to take all of the credit in brining down the Soviets. In truth they both were indispensable to each other.

By 'good' I mean his presidency did help bring about the end of the cold war, and even if, in reality, the Soviet bloc didn't pose nearly as much of a threat to America as most people believe, ending 40+ years of stalemate and hysteria is something. While I am in no means a Reagan fan, I am willing to give the devil his due.

[Silverhair]

45. More than dragging on. We had been losing.

Carter continually backed down in the face of Communism. He stated that "Americans had an inordinate fear of Communism", and with the Soviet invasion of Afganistan said that he felt betrayed. Americans had come to view Carter as a naive wimp. I do not say he was or was not a naive wimp, but that he was viewed that way.

Reagan stood up to the Soviets. Americans liked that. And Yes, he did hasten the fall of the Soviet Empire. But I think it would have fallen by now anyway.

[readmoreoften]

39. 1980 election=birth of the Christian Coalition Strategy

What the 1980s was about-- in addition to extreme greed-is-good culture-- was the splitting of the catholic vote. Catholics had always been hard blue. The abortion wedge became an enormous deal in the 80s and it split the Catholic vote.

[Skittles]

42. I saw through that phony piece of shit from day one

but he was a much better actor and speaker than Bush - fooled a LOT of people. STILL has lots of people fooled, as witnessed during his pathetic funeral. Lots of DUers admit to having voted for him. People voted for Reagan for the same reason they voted for that wag figure Ahnold - style over substance. Also, the media covered for Reagan while wearing kneepads. Reagan made idiocy fashionable.

[SoCalDem]

43. Sweet old "Uncle-Grandpa" personna.. that's it in a nutshell...n/t

:)

[hinachan]

44. I was there for the event

I volunteered for Mondale/Ferraro in a solidly red state, and have been following politics ever since. I apologize for plugging my site in this post, but I wrote a satirical "musical" which starts in the Reagan/Mondale election year of 1984, so read "Act 1" on my site, to get some info. (See my sig file for the address. :D )

With that out of the way, here's some more info:

* The reason I liked Mondale was the same reason most other voters didn't. During the '84 Democratic Convention, Mondale honestly admitted that taxes would have to be raised to help pay off the deficit. I admired his honesty; it didn't go over well with the greedy me generation.

* Mondale made the historic choice of a female VP candidate, Geraldine Ferraro. This went over like a lead balloon with the sexist pigs. :mad:

* After enjoying a considerable post-convention "bounce", Mondale promptly took some time off and didn't start campaigning until around Labor Day. Not a smart move.

* In the first debate, Mondale gained ground in the polls when he kicked Reagan's ass. Upon seeing that debate, even before I knew what Alzheimer's was, I knew that son of a bitch was senile. His handlers stupidly had him repeat his zinger of the Reagan/Carter debate, "There you go again", and Mondale was so ready for it, he left Reagan bleeding on the floor: "'There you go again'...remember the last time you said that, Mr. President?" At that point, Fritz shredded him with logic, tearing apart the old geezer's record as if it were tissue paper. It was priceless.
Jesse Jackson appeared on SNL a few days later, and did a hilarious sketch during which he showed clips of that debate. In one of these, Reagan referred to the military's "wardrobe", and JJ pointed out, "Wardrobe is for a war MOVIE; uniforms are for a WAR". Then there was a scene in which Reagan stood there, stammering and almost drooling on his podium, and Mondale was staring at him, almost pityingly. JJ and the studio audience burst out laughing at it.
At this point, Mondale surged in the polls.

* But then in the next debate, Ronnie's handlers managed to keep his drooling and stammering to a minimum, so all of a sudden, Americans decided it was safe to leave this senile bastard within arm's reach of The Button that could launch a nuclear war.

* Oh, and did I mention that Geraldine Ferraro's husband made some screwy business deals, so when their joint tax returns were made public, that made for a blow to the campaign as well. :(

* Though Mondale got about 40% of the popular vote, the map of the electoral college was really embarrassing...all went for Reagan, except D.C. and MN. I wrote him a letter thanking him for his efforts in the campaign, telling him about my experience volunteering for the first time, and thanking him for inspiring my interest in politics. To my surprise, I received a nice letter from him, in reply.

So there's your Cliff's Notes version of the 1984 election.