Convince Me: The ACLU, The Military, And The Boy Scouts

[cali]

For the life of me, I can't figure out why the ACLU took this on. They objected to the Military sponsoring the Boy Scouts on bases, and, as I understand it, prevailed through a settlement to get the Pentagon to agree to stop the practice. The ACLU objection to military sponsorship of the Scouts is based on the Scouts recognition of God, thus violating the separation clause.
Frankly, scouts being sponsored by the military doesn't bother me. Should it? Why?

[trotsky]

1. The scouts discriminate.

Against atheists / non-theists as well as homosexuals.

Discrimination of any sort is highly illegal for the government to engage in or encourage.

[DS1]

2. The military is essentially Scouts 2.0. And the military

is all over God like white on rice.

God, Country, Corps and all that - although just mouthed the God bit - who wants to be a crusader?

[unblock]

3. you answered your own question

separation of church and state.

the boy scouts could become secular if they wanted to get military recognition.

alternatively, the military is welcome to sponsor secular organizations.

[Kolesar]

4. They are a paramilitary organization

They have military-styled uniforms and stand at attention and all that stuff. I just think BSA administrators have turned into a frightening bunch of right wing monsters. They invited Ann Coulter to speak at the Florida convention. The BSA could fade away and disappear for all I care. I am an Eagle Scout and I resent being associated with these hateful bastards.

[trotsky]

5. Seriously?

I hadn't heard about them inviting Coulter. That is disgusting. I didn't think my opinion of the scouts could sink any lower, but there it goes.

[cali]

6. Thanks

I didn't know. My knowledge of the Boy Scouts is clearly both dated and lacking. Sorry the organization has let you down.

[greekspeak]

7. As a Boy Scout from 1984-1989, I can tell you it is a strange organization

There were men the boys were afraid of, because they were too intimate with the boys. There were secret rituals that involved whisking teenage boys off to the woods, whence they returned in a few days under a talking ban. There was a lot of quasi-military behavior and structure, from times being announced military style to the uniforms to the very strict flag treatment. Most of what went on was harmless and the result of grown-ups wanting to act like the military guys they never were, or were reliving their glory days in the military and projecting onto the boys.

This bleak picture said, there were good things the boy scouts did too. Wilderness survival, extreme environmental respect (take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints) and community service projects. Most of the merit badges fell outside the pale of propeganda, and subjects ranged from chemistry to radio to handicrafts.

[lenidog]

11. You just caught on to that

That was the original point of the Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts which were founded in England by a retired British military officer. He wanted to toughen the boys and prepare them for their roles as administrators and defenders of the British Empire.

[robcon]

8. I agree, cali.

This is beyond stupid... it is silly.

Why anyone cares whether an organization recognizes God or not is beyond me. Let them believe what they like, and let them be.

[trotsky]

12. So do you believe the scouts should be able to exclude

atheists and homosexuals from their ranks?

And if so, do you believe it is an appropriate use of public resources to support an organization that does?

[tx_dem41]

15. I agree with half of what you say, but you don't get the issue

If they truly were a private organization, then I would agree with you. But, the minute they get funding or infrastructure support from the government (in this case the military) they can not discriminate. Would you have a problem with the an all-Muslim organization or let's say the KKK receiving the same support?

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. I have mixed feelings about this --

If they should ever get rid of the pedophiles; acknowledge that gays are people and not walking, talking sins; and establish atheist troops, then I might be able to support them. Sure, I know that there are Muslim troops, and Jewish troops, but the vast bulk of the BS machinery is Xtian, and aggressivly so.

The Govt, as in the military, should not support an organization that has predjudice written into its by-laws and oaths.

[lenidog]

10. I have another question

If the military can't let the Boy Scouts use their property for various activities does that mean the military can't provide Chaplains or places of worship for military personnel? Should that be stopped? A while back I read a story how the US military was allowing Wiccan mostly in the military use a deserted part of the base for their ceremonies. Again should that be stopped?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. As I read the 1st Amendment,

the government is not allowed to sponsor a state religion. By allowing different faiths the right to practice, and by not forcing non believers to practice a faith, they are following the Constitution. By endorsing a group that is not open to non-believers is, in fact, endorsing a religion.

[Walt Starr]

14. The Scouts discriminate, which is okay for a private club

but if the military sponsors the scouts, the government becomes a de facto discriminator.

The Scouts want it both ways. They want to be a private entity for membership purposes and a public entity for financial purposes.

They can't have it both ways.

[Cleopatra2a]

16. They knocked my birdbath over

I live on a military base. The BSs were dropping off bags for a food drive on our doorstep. They clomped thru my flowers, knocked over my birdbath and didn't even bother to pick it up.