More worried about your sons than your daughters (abortion)

[cally]

Over the holidays, a family member said, "In many ways, I'm more worried about my son than my daughter. If my son impregnates a girl/woman, then he is not in control of his destiny. It's up to her to decide if he will be a father at a young age. If her daughter becomes pregnant, we will all figure out a way for her to get an abortion if she wants one." I don't have sons, but I would also be more concerned for them. I would drill into them about taking precautions and responsibility. Son or daughter, I would do the same but I would worry a touch more for my sons.

[Book Lover]

1. That is why birth control for both genders is imperative

This is hardly a new problem. What puzzles me is that more men aren't up in arms about this. Why doesn't Bill Maher have this as part of his schtick?

[TahitiNut]

14. Agreed.

I graduated high school in 1961. The female birth control pill became available in 1963-4. If there were a male birth control pill, I don't know of many guys who wouldn't have taken it. (Condom? Sorry to be anti-PC but, no, thanks. Might as well use Novocaine.)

I have one good friend (whose little head was bigger than his big head) whose two children were born at both ends of his former marriage - one conceived before marriage and the other conceived around the time of filing for divorce - and both under the assurance that she was taking the pill. She wasn't. He's at least honorable. He's paid through the nose, even though she's had live-in "boyfriends" and avoided any kind of employment for years. I've met her. Scary. Really scary. :scared:



"Unnecessary" disclaimer: I do not imply that either behavior is universal within their respective genders. So, cool it, please.

[Mandate My Ass]

18. Should all women who decide against celibacy after divorce

abdicate their right to child support from the biological father and former spouse? Not flaming, just asking.

[cally]

20. NO...just we all have to accept the risks

That is my point. If an unplanned pregnancy results, then men become fathers and women mothers. It's not just a woman's responsibility.

[TahitiNut]

24. I think that people receiving alimony ...

... who then have a (stealthy?) "marital" relationship with everything except the marriage ceremony ought to forego further alimony payments from the spouse that was not 'stealthy'.

I really don't give a damn what their gender is. Do you? If a male were receiving alimony and child support and then had his (possibly well-paid?) 'girlfriend' living with him, don't you think perhaps the continuation of alimony should be foregone?

[Mandate My Ass]

26. Who's talking about alimony?

I thought the topic of this thread was men's responsibility for impregnating someone.

I don't care who is paying whom. Children should not get caught up in, or be punished for, the sexual pecadilloes of either parent.

[Book Lover]

19. Well, being a woman,

I can't comment regarding sensations and condoms. But I have heard a range of comments from men; some say it's not that big a deal and others echo your comment.

But what do you think from the public health POV: is it feasible to expect a man raised in the US to take a pill every day at the same time to prevent pregnancy?

[TahitiNut]

23. I can only speak for myself (and similarly-minded males) ...

... and say that when I was sexually active (if I could even call it that), I certainly would have. :shrug:

I don't know why the question would be asked. Is there some perception that there's a gender-linked aspect to personal responsibility? Are women more dependable? I guess I wouldn't want to go there - it seems a bit ____ to engage in such stereotypes. To assume that such discipline is predominantly driven by the differing anatomical toll of pregnancy seems to ignore the widely varying prioritizations of people, independent of gender.

I've never been anything but (serially) monogamous. At the same time, I'd like to have the same options regarding parenthood that women have.

No, I'm not suggesting that men are 'powerless' or that there's an equivalency between a male's role in conception and a woman's role in giving birth. It's not a competition (or shouldn't be) and the issues faced by one gender should not be used to demean or diminish the issues faced by the other. Two wrongs never make a right.

[Mandate My Ass]

25. Once again not flaming -- asking

when I was sexually active (if I could even call it that), I certainly would have. (used a male BCP)

I don't know why the question would be asked. Is there some perception that there's a gender-linked aspect to personal responsibility? Are women more dependable?

You have said that condoms (the only male controlled contraceptive on the market) are unacceptable to you. If that is the case, why complain when women get pregnant? If lack of sensation is more important than the possibility of contracting STDs and/or impregnating someone, then it hardly seems fair to blame anyone's sexual partner when those consequences occur. Your anecdotal story of similarly-minded males portrays women as greedy, lazy, promiscuous liars. Based on that and that alone I'd have to believe that that is your opinion of the other gender.

I guess I wouldn't want to go there - it seems a bit ____ to engage in such stereotypes.

[TahitiNut]

27. Are straw men your hobby? (Your post is nothing but flame-bait.)

"why complain when women get pregnant?"

Nowhere did I ever "complain when women get pregnant" and I resent the inference.


"lack of sensation is more important than the possibility of contracting STDs"

Just where did I say a damned thing about STDs? I didn't. If you think birth control pills have something to do with STDs, then I suggest you enroll in a sex education course.


"Your ... story ... portrays women as greedy, lazy, promiscuous liars.
Well, if the foo shits then go ahead and wear it. That's your own choice. Your allegation is total bullshit that apparently comes from your own neurotic imagination. Indeed, it must be your own self-portrait since not a bit of it comes from my post.


It seems you're merely having a "discussion" with yourself and your own delusional straw men. Perhaps you have "issues." That's just tough. I really don't care to play punching bag for your personal problems.

[iamjoy]

2. I Don't Know

Abortion isn't just a quick fix - it has emotional repercussions for the woman (made worse by anti-abortion people calling her a murderer)

And too many guys just don't give a crap and bail on the girl they knocked up. Too many others mean well, but think that just because they pay child support and visit the child once a month they are doing their part while the woman has the responsibility 24/7.

[UCLA Dem]

3. with all due respect,

at least sons don't have to worry about someone else having control over their body.

[htuttle]

4. At least not until they start up the draft again

[UCLA Dem]

5. unless they draft girls too this time.

[cally]

8. I agree but if you raise a responsible son, then

I'd worry about them. I raised this as a prod to indicate that abortion is also a male issue. Too many times we think of this as only a female problem. It's not. This wasn't meant to include the jerks. Way too many of those.

[pmbryant]

6. Logical disconnect here

If my son impregnates a girl/woman, then he is not in control of his destiny.

That 'if' clause is just thrown out as if 'impregnating a girl/woman' just randomly happens. The son in fact has total control of his destiny.

--Peter

[cally]

9. Because birth control fails...

Yes, they have control in most cases. It's about responsible sex and understanding pregnancy may happen.

[pmbryant]

10. Yes, it is a choice with risks

They need to understand the risks if that is what they choose to do. But they still have total control of their destiny in their own hands.

Peter

PS I lost track of what you were saying and what you were quoting in the original post. But I think I understand now. :-)

[sandnsea]

7. This is just sad

I taught my sons that a pregnancy is HIS pregnancy too. They expect that if there's a pregnancy, they'll be fathers. My oldest is 28, my youngest is 18, they haven't gotten anybody pregnant so far. My daughter just turned 20, lived with her boyfriend for two years before they got married, and they managed not to get pregnant. If you teach your sons that the time to choose pregnancy is BEFORE they have sex, there should be no surprises or illusions of "forced fatherhood".

[Mandate My Ass]

11. At least he won't die in childbirth or be murdered by the mother

The number one cause of death among pregnant women is homicide by the father of the child. Losing control of one's destiny does strange things to some men.

BTW, I have a son. He thoroughly understands if he sticks it in, he's gotta live with the consequences and not blame anybody else.

[Warpy]

12. it's called a CONDOM

Men have the choice to protect themselves and their partners from the consequence of an unintended and unwanted pregnancy. Once the semen leaves his body and enters hers, it's no longer under his control. The only chance he has to interrupt the process is with a CONDOM.

Things were almost better before the pill, when men who didn't want to have shotgun weddings and nasty court cases wore condoms with little whining.

Please, teach your sons that condoms worn properly won't decrease pleasure THAT MUCH, that they'll prevent the transmission of a lot of very ugly diseases to or from their partners, and they will save them from 18 years of financial disaster.

[PlanetBev]

15. Unwanted pregnancy can traumatize the man too

When my 48 year old brother was 19 years old, he got his girlfriend pregnant. She was toying with the idea of having the baby and my brother was freaked out. He told her that if she was going to have the baby to trap him into marriage, he was absolutely not going to marry her. Thank goodness she got the abortion (which he paid for) This girl came from a Catholic family who were a bunch of Jew-haters and didn't hesitate to let my brother know it. Jeff would have been stuck with child support payments at 19 and the whole thing would have killed my parents for sure.

I had a friend who got pregnant to trap a guy. He begged her to get an abortion, but she refused. He ended up marrying her, but then beat the hell out of her for trapping him. The marriage ended bitterly, of course.

[cally]

21. Condoms are not 100 percent effective!

Use foam with a condom and make sure to use it before ANY genital touching.

[Iris]

13. I've always felt this way.

If you believe contraception and abortion are essential in fighting poverty, it's not a very big leap. Many men have been burdened by the financial responsiblity of unplanned children.

[wyldwolf]

16. on a lighter note, a wise person once said...

With a son, you only have to worry about one penis.
With a daughter, you have to worry about ALL the penises!

[AndyTiedye]

17. Worry About Your Sons Because of the DRAFT!

If your son gets somebody pregnant, the worst that could happen is child support payments.
If they send him to Iraq....

[cally]

22. I have no doubt that women will also be drafted...nt

[Randers]

28. My son is not so much worried about

being trapped financially - as he is that it is totally out of his control that what he would consider to be alive would be aborted.

But then he is not one to go running around...

[noiretextatique]

29. not in control of his destiny?

:eyes: