What "France" represents/means to you?

[Rochambeau]

Please post here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=274x193

You can write in english only it's not a problem at all.

Thanx.

[shraby]

1. France has been a long time ally of the U.S.

They've come through for us in tight spots..and we have for them. They gave us the Statue of Liberty which became a beacon for immigrants from all over the world.
It's a terrible thing Bushco has done to our relationship with France.
If I may, I'd like to apologize to your great country.

[BiggJawn]

2. Paris-Brest-Paris, 2007.

Hope I qualify, have enough money, and am allowed to leave the country to ride it.

[gorbal]

4. All I know of France

Is from having french friends, seeing french films and the brief periods I have spent traveling in France. What I can say is that the french seem to me very sensuous, sophisticated, intellectual, refined, and subtle. I note sometimes it is hard to shake off an argument however, LOL!

I love french films, like "Olivier Olivier" and "Amelie". French wine, french cheeses, and how the french school everyone for free and know how to live:)

[bloom]

3. I can't post there.. but

I think of art and aesthetics

and good wine

when I think of France

[Stinky The Clown]

5. I think of my friends in France, I think of the people I've met in France

I think of their cradle to grave social safety net. I think of their pride in their culture (admirable and at times maddeningly condemnable). I think of their pride in the heritage. I think of our long standing alliance.

I think of our last arrival where the cab driver who took us from Charles deGaulle to our hotel in Montparnesse ...... a man from Mauritius (himself obviously an immigrant to France) who spent the entire hour the trip took bashing the middle eastern population who now lives in France. (We had **no** idea every bad driver was a Palestinian!) Was this his attempt to put we Americans at ease that the French could hate as well as we apparently can?

I think of every Parisian who continues to amaze me with their way of quickly dispelling the notion that every Frenchman hates every American. That, of course, must be contrasted with the arrogant waiter who shooed us from a cafe where we were drinking coffee (espresso) because it was supper time and he needed his seats for *paying* customers.

Most of all, I look to a future where we will again be friends as we once were, not as we're now forced to be by those in power here.

[PurityOfEssence]

6. A people who "get it"

Americans hate the French because we glory in the hatred of culture. It's not just that we're anti-intellectual, we're anti-culture. As a result, all the bumpkins who've been loping and posturing the life of the frontier homespun lunk are so supremely ignorant that things that are different are repellant out of a need to dismiss all that they can't figger out. They wives done bin hankering for them frenchy foods 'n such, and they cain't even pernounce 'em, even though French is so deeply imbedded in the English language that one can't hardly speak a few coherent sentences without using they dang werds.

The puritan mentality of the American psyche has a deep assumption of inferiority: "I'll never measure up to the god-dad, and he'll never like me, so I gotta work even harder". Thus, any alien culture that so many people like is a source of stinging embarrassment. There's a peace in the French consciousness that engenders hatred and envy from Americans: how dare they enjoy themselves.

Hitler said the French were the best soldiers in Europe, and he knew: he fought them in the trenches for four years. Their military history is very good, but they MUST be denigrated because they don't fall in step with our ongoing thirst for world dominance.

They get sex, they get the concepts of leisure time, they get nuance, they're cosmopolitan, they're fiercely independent, they get food, they get drink, they've learned from their colonial mistakes (unlike us), they've been at the center of warfare since their very beginning (unlike us), and they're endlessly entertaining. If more Americans watched French Comedies instead of the occasional contact with "serious" movies, they'd "get" the French.

Puritanism is the hatred, disdain and complete dismissal of the earthly realm. Sex is bad. Pleasure is bad. Life doesn't matter. Approval of the supernatural whatever is the only thing that matters. The French dig life. They accomodate dalliances and the mistakes and vagaries of one's human activities. They're cool, and the hip members of the rest of the world agree. That's also why they engender such hatred: most of the world isn't cool, and those who aren't spend inordinate energies and time destroying those who annoy them.

J'aime les Francais.

[erniesam]

7. clean, pretty, and quiet--except for the dog dirt everywhere

[212demop]

8. The first 2nd language I learned in high school, the place I went to on

exchange programs- a different culture but a second home. And it's also, ahem, where I lost my virginity to a French boy. Love is the best incentive for learning a foreign language! Beautiful memories...

:)

[Hippo_Tron]

9. A country that we need to embrace more

Do I embrace their government and Jacques Chirac as brave and heroic for not getting involved with Iraq, not really. It was a smart move and one of national interest on many levels, amongst them, that they saw the situation would probably become a quagmire and that commiting troops would be just putting them in harm's way for no reason. But basically, there's no reason that we need to hate the French or any Europeans for that matter. Not to mention the fact that our freeper counterparts forget that citizens of a country don't necesarilly agree with the decissions of their government. I actually discussed this with my french teacher a few years ago. Somebody made an "anti-french" comment in class. I responded that, "You may disagree with the decissions of their government, but the actions of their government don't necesarilly reflect the beliefs of all of their people." After class I discussed it with my teacher, and told her that if I went to France, I would sure hope that they don't assume that I, as well as all other Americans are Bush supporters, because that is clearly not hte case.

[Forkboy]

10. Well,they piss off freepers and people down in the I/P Forum

(but wait,I repeat myself!)

So they can't be all bad :)

Actually,I see them as just another country full of people like any other.Some good,some bad.I dont judge people by country :shrug:

[JNelson6563]

18. hahaha! Forkboy!!

I love how you repeat yourself.

:yourock:

[realisticphish]

11. In general

positive. They helped us win our freedom (kind of), and we helped them win theirs back. Though I think that people tend to ignore some stuff France did before the war of 1812, but of course you cant hold a current government responsible for the errors of a previous one.


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[the_outsider]

12. liberty, equality, fraternity

intellectual, literary, philosophical, artistic and scientific ideas
ideals and inspirations.

[donheld]

13. I have a great deal of admiration for the french.

The U.S. and France have been friends for many years. It's a great pity that Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney etc have tried their best to drive a wedge between France, Germany, Belgium and so many others.

[Piperay]

14. Being independent

and not afraid to speak the truth, that is what France means to me. :thumbsup:

[brainwashed]

15. Vive le France

Most Americans do not know that the French stepped in and won the American Revolutionary War for us.

I spent 3 years in France and love your country.

I am disgusted at the disrespect our conservatives here have shown for your country.

I am sorry that our president is an idiot.

[scarletlib]

34. 2nd's to that

France--a great nation and contributor to freedom in the USA--Lafayette lives on!

[slaveplanet]

16. Unlike the Brits and the Hessians

their native sons are buried on our soil IN defense of this country...We will need them again....enough said

[Rochambeau]

17. Thank you all for your answers

This is very interesting, thanx again. As BonjourUSA said in the Francophone Group forum the image of France you have is, globaly, mostly based on old subjects, some are really true some are not really accurate but all of them are old and a bit out dated.
For exemple, none of you who answered really mentionned up to date images about what TODAY France can represent too like Concorde, Airbus, Ariane space launcher and Guyana launch base, High tech industries, ultra fast trains(TGV), advance medical researches, high tech weapons industry, industrial capacity in general (energy, dams, nuclear, tires, trains, car industry (not in the US but everywhere else in the world), television tech (more than one half of the CRT tv screens sold in the US has a french Thomson cathodic tube in it) etc...etc...etc...

It's weird in a sense because if you ask the French the same question they will certainly more answer with the arguments I wrote above then with the arguments you americans mentioned.

How many French did ever eat frog legs? Maybe less then 1%. Jean-Luc Godard is not French but Swiss and very proud of it. The French are not striking more then the other europeans and some study even say that we don't even go on strike more then the US workers globally. Intellectual, literary, philosophical and artistic ideas appears to us as very natural and we can hardly figure out that it's not everywhere the same and that it can be a source of specific national pride since we are at least as much interested in other cultures then we are in our own. It's the same about the way of life, it's not an argument a French would mention because it is natural to us etc...etc....etc....
About the so-called french anti-semitism, as it was mentionned in the Francophone Forum, it's a vast subject that would require a specific post to deal with but it is globally a lie.


On the other hand many arguments you mentionned are also a source of pride to us. Our landscapes, our language, our history and military history, our historical and architectural heritage, and most of all maybe our visceral independence vis à vis dominating models (Imperial Roman Catholic before, today the anglo-saxon one).

So, we can say France has really a big deficit of communication in the US. We do have to kill old clichés and explain you what makes US proud of our country.

Thank you again for your answers.

[brainwashed]

22. Merci a mille fois

I'm not sure if my french spelling is correct but I think I'm close.

That is interesting that we have mostly concentrated on the past. In our major media outlets we get very little news of France or most other countries unless there is a controversy. Most of the recent news that have heard have comes from neocon name-calling morons. This embarasses most of us who have a high regard for the French.

Thanks again.

[BonjourUSA]

19. Thank you. I'm happy to see many of you are in love with France.

Signature : Super Dupont

[HamdenRice]

20. French intellectual tradition ...

I associate France with a very rigorous, but from the English and American pragmatic perspective, very abstract, intellectual tradition. I always wondered whether the social science literature I read by French men and women was difficult and abstract because it was translated badly or whether the French language was able to express certain thoughts that were not easily translatable into English.

[rfkrfk]

21. goofy calendar

This is year 213, or what?

[janx]

23. My great-great-great-great grandfather

came here from Strasbourg (as a boy) and wound up fighting in our Union Army during the Civil War.

He and two of his sons died trying to keep this country together.

[Xipe Totec]

24. Mariachi Music, Pan Frances

Mariachi comes from the French word Mariage because the music was originally played at weddings.

Pan Frances, or bolillo, comes from 'boulange'

Vive La France!

[gollygee]

25. Land of my ancestors

well, via Canada :D

[Octafish]

26. Voltaire. Democracy. Freedom.

And a lot more of what makes up civilization.

[never cry wolf]

27. J'etude en Versailles por neuf mois

Unfortunately I did not learn much of the language, it was a branch of U. of Ill. School of Architecture that was attached to UP3 with our own professors.

I loved it, loved the people, loved the country, loved the culture. It should be mandatory for all young americans to travel abroad to increase their awareness of the world around them and teach tolerance of others. I am sure I would not be the lefty I am today without the experience.

Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite !

Vive le France!

on edit: spellun (in english, sheesh)

[Cookie wookie]

28. I'm humiliated and mortified by the barbarians

in the current US administration and the country who have derided the French.

My feelings -- I've never had the opportunity to travel to France and have been a bit afraid, since I've taught myself only a little French and I've heard if you don't speak the language and speak it well you are ridiculed. That wouldn't stop me from going there if I had the chance, though.

I've always had this romantic vision and admiration of everything French, from films, to art, to their scientific achievements which are little heard of in the US, but are significant. Look at all the Nobel Prize winners who are French!

When I'm particularly suffering from the crass materialism of the US, I dream of being in France, where there is so much beauty and culture (at least in my dreams -- has it survived?) I imagine standing in the vast courtyard in front of the Louvre, and wonder, how do the French feel about the I.M.Pei Pyramide? About Napoleon? About the way the Nazis took over the city in WWII? I'd like to know history from the French perspective, not just the American version.

I hope France is keeping culture alive for the world.

[Rochambeau]

29. No, you will not be ridiculed !

One thing anglophones need to know is to ask people first if they speak english and not speak directly and fastly to them in english as if they were home or as if every decent people in the World should speak english fluently.
My second job is in commerce, in a very touristic shop, and I HATE when people do that! It depends on my mood but they always have a good chance to be answered either "no english" very unpleasantly or to be served in english but very badly. Ask in english, politely or better, it's a true sesame, in french as a mark of respect "Excusez-moi madame/monsieur , parlez-vous anglais?" even with an absolutely horrible accent and you'll see, it's a kind of magic.

The French are many times rude with everybody, other Frenchmen or tourists (cafés waiters, taxi drivers, policemen, state employees etc... are specific categories of people (but not all of them of course !!) rude every single minute of their life). It's typically french. The french victim will argue and dispute and you'll see a typical french fight with name calling in a few seconds. The tourist on the other hand can do nothing but to be a sitting duck and it's a pity. It's a true shame, I apologize for this, you must forgive us it's a bad habit that will still be in a thousand years I guess.

To sum it up, I'd say the French definitely hate american conservative, red neck way to think and to behave and when they can catch one of them at home, well, too bad ! lol. I can smell a conservative, a guy that'll shit on France as soon as he'll be back home whatever I do, at two meters. He doesn't know exactly why he hates France ? I'll give him a good reason ! That's the way many frenchmen think ! So, I'm sure a person like you will be very welcome in France. But never forget that stupidity is the most shared thing in the World.

EDIT= spelling

[FrenchieCat]

31. Salut!

j'ai lu votre forum et je vais venir me présenter à votre DU
group très bientôt.

Je suis né à Paris, mais ont vécu dans la Bay Area de la Californie, ca fait 30 ans maintenant.

[Rochambeau]

32. You're welcome !! Looking forward to read from you there. :) n/t

[BonjourUSA]

37. On t'attend

[BonjourUSA]

36. Who did tell you if you don't speak French you're ridiculed ????

If you ask anything to Frenchs with "please" or "I'd like to...", they'll split themselves into four pieces for you. But you can meet some assholes... We have ours too (especially cafés waiters, taxi drivers... But they are not different with us)

[Cookie wookie]

38. It's common to hear that in U.S....

Ah, like New Yorkers are rude, perhaps? But at the same time, at bottom of it all, New Yorkers have great hearts -- which we saw them demonstrate after 9/11.

It helped my shame over the behavior of the 50% of idiots (conservatives) who bash the French when I saw the beautiful French citizens on the "Sorryeverybody" website being so kind about our great historical stain as a nation -- the re-election (or stolen election) of * and company.

Someday maybe I'll be able to travel to France and fulfill my dreams. Then again, these days I keep thinking maybe we should all get out of the country as soon as we can, that to stay is dangerous, considering the barbaric and unlawful nature of the current ruling class.

[Hosnon]

30. They are the world's intellectual stalwart - vive la france

[amandabeech]

33. Food, wine, painting, fashion and the art of good living.

I'm shallow.

[SemperEadem]

35. France represents

Good food, good fashion, colorful history, oppressive regimes, religious civil wars, beautiful language, amazing art, lush countrysides, salic law, where I want to live out the remainder of my life.

[Flagg]

39. Oppresive regimes ?

[LakeCohoon]

40. France epitomizes the essence of corruption. n/t

[Rochambeau]

41. Adios n/t

[okasha]

42. Vraiment?

Fermez la bush, idiote!

Okasha

[jakpalmer]

43. LOL

Tell us more please.

[Cats Against Frist]

44. Brie, the Enlightenment, Jacques Derrida, Rousseau, The Bill of Rights

Everything cool comes from France.