I'm not anything.... spiritually, that is....

[Dastard Stepchild]

That's it really. I find that I am not anything - not Christian, not Muslim, not Jewish, not Buddhist, not Hindu, not Zoroastrian. I feel no warm glow of spirituality, yet do not wish to call myself any form of the non-religoius either: agnostic, athiest, etc.
Just thought I'd check-in with that, since a large number of threads seem to be addressing the issue of religion or spirituality.
Feeling left out ;)

cheers......

[Pegleg Thd]

1. I have been studying

theology and religion for 50 years and I have not found a 'church' in this country that is following the real teachings of the Bible.

[sam sarrha]

4. i did that 50 years ago... nothing has or will change about the Organized

religions..islam, christianity..they all fail the reality test. they are not what they try to be because they all have a fatal flaw... the gods didn't create the universe no can they do anything to change it.. they do not govern us ... it is all based on the followers 'Believing is true.. and that cant make it so.. i figured that out at age 7.

I went on a life long quest to find..'Any Truth'..which i didn't, I have found that the Lojong practices do clear the mind, and help one 'see' thru the failings of the emotions and conventional mind. It helps one have more compassion for those still prisoner to their and others illusory thoughts... it isn't religion, it is a method of training the mind.

[Dastard Stepchild]

8. Well.. I haven't studied religion much...

I was in Catholic School as a child. I think the inconsistent messages do throw me for a loop, but as a child, I seemed to be able to make peace with this. As an adult, not so much.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. I hear that Jesus

didn't go to church much either.

Who needs church anyway, when you know that god is already within you?

[Az]

20. Oh he went to church all right

Only when he got there he kicked up a bit of a fuss.

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. Oh yeah, I heard about that day

Seems he got arrested shortly after that. Good thing they cut him down off that cross after just 6 hours. He might have died otherwise.

[sam sarrha]

2. If yu have 'Compassion' for yourself and others you are way ahead of much

of the rest.

[Dastard Stepchild]

11. That's kind of been my thought....

Cause no harm, and live with compassion. Prolly picked up bits and pieces from all sorts of spots along the way, but it's melded into a singular way of being that doesn't feel "religious" or "spiritual" per se.

[Flammable Materials]

3. If you're wandering in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're lost.

Just means you like it out here.

I've looked into everything. Finally decided none of it was for me. If there's a God, I'm sure it has better things to do than fume or worry over whether or not I believe in it.

Sure, it makes life a lot more difficult. You've got to rely solely on yourself rather than trusting in an invisible friend. But on the other hand, it's truly liberating.

[Dastard Stepchild]

9. Neat thoughts...

I guess I do like the wilderness :)

[rabid_nerd]

16. Amen brothers and sisters...

Although there's an internet church where you can be legal to marry people in three minutes for free.

http://ulc.org/

Make sure your printer has paper...

Wandering in the wilderness...

I like that..

"We ask only that you promote the freedom of religion and do that which is right. It is up to the individual to determine what is right as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others and is within the law. That is as close to the Golden Rule as one can come."

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. That's what free will is all about

n/t

[MatrixEscape]

5. Having studied and inspected

various religions, spiritual movements, ancient mysteries, etc., I find that "revealed" relgions are very problematic, but that is for me personally.

What ever serves you best in your spiritual needs is what you should practice. That is kind of a law that I think comes from Realization. Add the Golden Rule, compassion, awareness, and an open mind, and you have it pretty much down.

So, I am primarily Agnostic after the long search. However, I like to drag it out into a more precise definition: Agnostic, Zen Buddhist, Taoist, Mystic, Negative Utilitarian.

The Ribhu Gita has been fascinating me lately, and don't forget that Buddhism, in its essence, can be seen as more of a Supreme Psychology, than a religion. The West tends to cast distortions on other world views. Bastardization tends to water down and dogmatize orginal messages and ideas.

Now, when it comes to politics, I am a staunch supporter of the clear separation of Church and State so that the above concepts can remain open and free.

[Dastard Stepchild]

12. It is interesting to see how the search...

can lead to so very many things that make sense for you.
I, too, rely heavily on the need for a separation of Church and State.

[edhopper]

6. I am a

rationalist, a materialist and an atheist. I find the concept of God to be antiquated in a sceintific, modern world. After several millineum there is as yet no good evidence or proof of the existence of God. I am also tolerant that others believe and feel strongly about church/state.

[Dastard Stepchild]

14. I am also very tolerant of all beliefs...

and sometimes I think to myself that there might be a quiet reassurance from spirituality/religion that for the life of me always seems to elude me. I'm cool with it, really, but I'm just not sure how I became to be this way.

[toddaa]

7. Spirituality without the supernatural baggage

If you don't like to refer to yourself with a negative word (agnostic, atheist, apathist), check out http://www.pantheism.net/.

[Dastard Stepchild]

13. Thanks for the link...

I'll give it a look :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. Can you give me a good definition of spirituality?

That site talks about it, and so far I can agree with pretty much everything I read on it, but I don't see anything that needs the word 'spiritual'. In particular, with this statement: "Body and mind are indivisibly united", they seem to deny the existence of spirits or souls, for humans or any other entity. That's fine by me, but in that case what is 'spirituality'?

[toddaa]

24. Spirituality in the natural sense

It's a tricky word. Kind of like Zen or Tao. It cannot really be put into words. If you try to break down its etymology and discern its abstract meaning, you'll miss it.

I think of it like this. The notes for the song Straight, No Chaser are pretty easy to read and understand, but only Thelonious Monk could play them and make them sound the way he did. It's the spirit of Monk that makes the song so gratifying. Lot's of people can play the notes, but performance always lacks the spirit of Monk.

So many people think there is an answer to the meaning of life, but they miss the wonder of the question.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. Hmm, that sounds like a 'unique personality'

for the Monk approach to the music; and I can readily accept that for what 'spirit' means (and it's interesting you've chosen music - the way it affects people, including myself, intrigues me, but I haven't heard a good explanation for it. If anyone were going to persuade me of 'higher truths', I think they'd have to include music in the argument). But most people's use of 'spiritual' seems to imply more than that - something shared, but not quite as man made a construction as 'social'. I definitely agree that it's tricky, like Zen.

I fear that too many people who aren't religious use 'spiritual' as a fall back description to avoid being thought of as callous, or unromantic, without knowing what their listener is likely to take as the meaning. Personally, I'm quite happy to have been called "just a bag of chemicals".

[toddaa]

26. Just a bag of chemicals

That bag of chemicals is made up of elements that existed from beginning of time. You contain strings of genetic code that were derived from the mitochondrial Eve. Those genetic sequences are found in every other living thing on this planet. When you die, your body will decay and replenish the earth. That is pantheist spirituality. Stop trying to put it into words.

What's interesting is that since I gave up my belief in the supernatural, I've become far more spiritual than I ever was as a Christian.

[Feathered Fish]

10. Humanist here

Which is probably the most spirtiual of them all.

[Dastard Stepchild]

15. Someone mentioned Humanism to me the other day...

I've not read a lot about this, but I was going to do so when I had a bit more time.

[Az]

17. Some thoughts

Humanist has already been mentioned (their logo is in my sig, its the joyous person with hands uplifted). Also consider Unitarian Universalism. Its a religion without a dogma to peddle. It is open to anyone be they theist or atheist, believers in Jesus or unbeliever. The UU church has pagans and buddhist, taoists and shintoists. Its worth a look.

Now to another point. Atheism by itself is not a group per se. It like the word theist is merely a description of the current state of belief of the individual. That is if you currently believe there is a god or gods then you are a theist. If you do not currently believe there is a god or gods then you are an atheist. There isn't really any room for abiguity here. You either currently do or do not believe there is a god. This status can change from moment to moment. It is based on the balance of your experiences and learning. The balance can be close but the liklihood of a perfect balance is not high.

Now the problem most people have with declaring themself in one camp or the other is the degree of certainty they have. Whether they know what they believe is true or not. Knowing a thing and believing a thing are two very different issues. You can believe things you have no way of knowing are true or not. The terms gnostic and agnostic address this state of mind. The word gnostic means to know a thing. And conversely the word agnostic means you do not know a thing in the absolute sense.

Whether you call yourself any of these labels does not change the fact that you may fit them. Its not a club. They are terms that describe what you are like human, mammal, and animal. Whether you are open with other people about what you are is up to you. Some things are not as obvious and require interaction for others to know about. Such as whether you believe there is or is not a god. These are not critical labels to let people know about so in most cases they can be left out. But in discussions about such matters I believe one should be open with them in order for all involved to be able to farely discuss the matter.

[edhopper]

23. This is a good point.

I don't call myself an atheist because of belief. I don't "believe" in anything, in a supernatural sense. (Yes, I believe in certain ideals, but that's philosophy not religion).
There is either evidence for something, no evidence, or not enough evidence to know.
In terms of God. I find there is no evidence. So I don't "believe" there is no God. I think rationally there is no God.

[LWolf]

27. One small point:

atheist vs theist--

Before this simple "god or not" explanation works, you have to have a universally agreed on definition of "god."

And we don't.

Many people who say they don't believe in "God" or a "god" are really saying that they don't believe in a particular faith, or in the majority/predominant faith's definition. I don't believe that every faith, or every person, defines the term in the same way.

I don't believe in the paternal bipolar "God" who rages, thunders, roars, punishes, loves, saves, creates, and reduces us to insignificant dumbasses that he somehow loves so incredibly because we are his image that he can forgive our flaws and basic dumbassness, because we are his children, if we just fall into line and obey like the mindless little dumbasses we are.

But I am open to higher intelligence, and the energy that sparks creation.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

28. i am in the same boat

i really don't like calling my self "atheist" because it seems to be a reactionary label that comes from first believing there is "god".