In light of the Nov 2nd election, should we abolish the ELECTORAL COLLEGE?

[UdoKier]

Putting aside all suspicions of election fraud for a moment, In 2000, we would have won if the election had been based on the popular vote.

This year, we would have lost, big time.

Knowing this, would you support abolishing the electoral college for a one-person, one-vote popular vote system?










I would. I believe a lot more democrats would come out to vote in "deep red" states if they thought their vote would make a difference. I know some Texas democrats who didn't vote because "it wouldn't make a difference anyway". If enough people think that way, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I say YES to democracy, even if it doesn't always mean we win.

[wuushew]

1. How about proportional voting?

The 2004 vote similar to 2000 would have resulted in a net gain for us, but unlike 2000(and assuming no vote fraud) we would not have won.

[McKenzie]

10. proportional representation means that minority groups

can get representation, depending how the system is set up. We have it in Scotland (only for the Scottish Parliament) and it has created seats for Socialist, Labour, Conservative, Liberal and Green politicians. Representatives of the smaller parties might not have been elected by a first past the post system. It also allows for different parties to vote together against the administration thereby acting as a check on unbridled executive power.

Critics argue that it doesn't allow strong government which could also be restated as it doesn't always allow one party to dominate. The issue is whether strong government or fair representation should be the primary goal of democracy. So far, our system has worked fairly well.

edit - grammar

[whistle]

2. Does any democracy have anything like the electoral college

...system for selecting a leader of that democracy? The president of the United States has traditionally been part of a three corner system of checks and balances. However, the system has lost all three corners and become rule by the tyrannical right and the ultra rich. Time to bring the voice of the people back into the picture.

[mcscajun]

3. Without the Electoral College...

...the 2004 campaign strategies, and the results, might well have been different.

I said before the election, and I'll keep on saying it...no matter who wins, we must get rid of this antiquated institution and have a direct popular vote be the only determinant.

[Leilani]

4. It will not be changed in the forseeable future

Too many small states would lose their clout, & they won't let it be changed.

[UdoKier]

6. A lot of small states already have 2 senators...

...more than they deserve...

[wuushew]

8. Why do say that?

The Great Compromise was the major stumbling block overcome that allowed the creation of the Constitution. The 538 number of the Electoral college was chosen to be mathematically neutral in the representation of small vs. large states.

Proportional voting would elimate the existence of swing states and force a more national campaign while still maintaing the balance of powers.

[UdoKier]

9. Why the hell should states or regions make any difference at all?

Sorry - one man, ONE VOTE. The way it is now, millions of peoples' votes are basically nullified.

I don't want states to be represented when it comes to choosing a president, I want the will of the people to be represented.


(And I was joking about the senators)

[Leilani]

13. I'm not giving my opinion

I'm just telling you the reality.

There is not enough support for overturning the EC.

[UdoKier]

5. Also, candidates would be forced to campaign to EVERY area

not just the swing states.

[AirAmFan]

7. NO--we're not ready for popular-vote democracy yet. We nave no national

standards for administering fair elections. See http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_5821.shtml
for just a smidgeon of the flavor of the problems we still have since Jimmy Carter, Chris Dodd, and Steny Hoyer rolled over for Republican ballot-box tampering in buy off on the 'Help America Vote Act' after the 2000 fiasco.

Under the current system, at least there's a cap on the efficacy of ballot-box stuffing in individual states. Once Tom DeLay has gerrymandered enough extra Republican votes, and disqualified enough "felons", to achieve a one-popular-vote Texas majority for the Republican Presidential candidate, further ballot-box stuffing in Texas does not cancel out any more votes in blue states.

But eliminate the Electoral College (or a less-labor-intensive substitute that does the same thing--cap the influence of any individual state), and the situation is quite different. DeLay could pad the ballot box in Texas with A BILLION phantom votes for the Republican Presidential candidate, and the Republicans would win, since the Supreme Court would uphold the sanctity of the Texas ballot.

[UdoKier]

11. The electoral college has done nothing to make the last two elections fair

nt

[Gothmog]

12. Abolish the electoral college

The Electoral college is a dinosaur and is undemocratic. Voters in states like Wyoming have a far more important vote compared to voters in larger states.

[melnjones]

14. Popular vote=majority tyranny

Even the flawed electoral vote system is better than that. I agree with post #7 as well.

[Solon]

16. Our electorial vote system equals minority tyranny...

How is it better? We have the bill of rights, that much is true, but think about this, it take 3/4 of state legislatures to change the constitution, seems like a safe number, till you realize that those three quarters could easily equal far less than 50 percent of this country's population. The Bill of Rights could literally be thrown out of the window by less than half this country, we're not a democracy, we're a plutocracy, and it isn't limited by the EC either.

[Sympleesmshn]

15. A possible new system

Might we use a "point" system like sports us, where you give two "points" to the guy you like the most and then you can give one to an independent. This would truly make the system multi-party. Of course you do not have to vote for two people, you can just give two to the person you want in office. This would have canceled the "Nader Effect"

On Edit: it would be then the total "points" winner who would win the election. I not this system then definitely no Electoral College.

[0rganism]

17. I dunno. That'd be a pretty fundamental change, really

I could see an amendment that standardizes elector allocation -- e.g., allocates electoral votes according to congressional district across the board +2 for the statewide winner -- but not eliminating it entirely.

Frankly, setting up a national standard for open-source voting machine firmware is a higher priority to me.

[wuushew]

20. The danger of gerrymandered congressional districts is too great

m/t

[marlakay]

18. We the people should speak not delegates!

the system is old and needs to be thrown away.

[NightTrain]

19. In light of the 2000 election, we should abolish the electoral college!

[Yupster]

21. Abolish it - it was designed

for a time and government that no longer exists. It's time has passed.

[Yupster]

22. How about if we go back to the way the system was

designed to work before it was changed by the Twelfth Amendment?

Each state legislature elects electors who then vote for two people they think would make good presidents. Then the House of Representatives elects one of the nominated men as president from the top five electoral vote finishers.

No need to even have a vote of the people.

The system fell apart with the introduction of political parties.

[genieroze]

23. It doesn't really matter because Bushco rigged the popular vote too. eom

[juslikagrzly]

24. Absolutely abolish it!

I've been thinking more and more that we should have a parliamentary system like Canada and UK, where minority parties at least had a voice, and when no party receives a majority, coalitions are built. It's really messy, but at this point in our history, some of us in red states feel completely disenfranchised from our system of government. Candidates don't spend a dime here on advertising, don't bother to visit/campaign here. We might as well not exist except to provide our electoral votes to the total. It sucks!