Asbestos suit on: We deserved to lose

[private_ryan]

1. we didn't fight back for months (until it was too late) trying to be positive (thanks a lot Shrum) despite having tons of money to do so.

2. we let a chickenhawk and a coward turn a war hero into a wimp without a fight

3. Kerry is an elitist (it's the truth, not just a Repub talking point) who just doesn't connect with average America. Bush it's exactly the same, if not worst, but Kerry was stupid enough to show it by surfing, skiing etc. Image matters and he should know better.

4. See #1

Unless we are willing to fight back we will always lose. if you don't want to fight back and be "nice", stay the f-ck away from politics. Become a minister or something like that.

[DrWeird]

1. I'm glad you admit he's a chickenhawk and a coward.

That says a lot about the people who support him.

Nudge nudge wink wink.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. First of all surfing does NOT make you an elitist.

Second, I agree that both candidates this year had elitist backrounds.

I wanted Wes Clark, but no one would listen. Wes Clark is Bill Clinton without the affairs. Also, Clark protested this stupid war from day one and is to the left of Clinton on economic policy.

[private_ryan]

3. "First of all surfing does NOT make you an elitist"

it actually does...politically speaking. You have to do image control and surfing is not middle murika. He could've waited a few months, no?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[private_ryan]

7. I actually don't

I have a lot of things to do but let me apologize for not keeping up with the party memos and thinking for myself.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[private_ryan]

12. you are so smart and funny

I wish I was just like you

[DrWeird]

13. I bet you do.

You thought your porn thread was going to work, didn't you?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. Isn't that a PREJUDICE on behalf of middle America then?

Why is it that we on the coasts must always accomodate the middle? What about us? Maybe it's the Blue States that are America and the Red States have a problem!

:eyes:

[private_ryan]

9. guess what?

you run to get the most votes and we lost. The red states won.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. I agree about the surfing

I liked Kerry and thought he would make a good president, but that image of him wind surfing just made me cringe. It is a sport of the coasts and well **all** know anything to do with the coasts gets connected **immediately** with liberal elite.

Nope, not a good idea at all.

[Deja Q]

6. Debate #2 would have stung quite a bit.

Kerry turned to the audience and said that the only people who made over $250k were himself, the president, and somebody else. Something to that effect. I knew where Kerry was heading, but it was said in a very insulting way that did not suggest Kerry fully connected. (though he did far more so than when compared to *.)

[Turn CO Blue]

8. The people who will be hurt the most by this loss...

children in poverty, seniors with fixed incomes, families with no health insurance, the soldiers in Iraq, those who can't speak for themselves and even those who just didn't know any better but should have -- they did NOT deserve the havoc that this administration will wreak.

I will concede this - we have to do better at the local level in 2006. (Yes, Ohio is important, and uncovering election fraud is important, but I am just one part-time activist way over in Colorado).

NOW is the time to start planning to get Democratic control of every single election board and school board for 2006 and 2008. We must take over the schools (then we can worry about getting our own media later). Those kids are our future.

[private_ryan]

11. unless we know why we lost

we'll never, ever win. Spineless politicians should stay out.

[GRLMGC]

14. Then run

Since you're so superior and all. I'm sure you can get some support.

[private_ryan]

15. no thanks

but if I did, I would fight back, not just say so.

[DrWeird]

17. Are you posting from Iraq right now?

Because you say you'd be happy to fight, but I don't think you'd be happy to fight.

[private_ryan]

19. what is fight?

Must it always mean fight with guns? Do you understand the difference or you just playing (word held back)?

[DrWeird]

20. You're right. It was a rhetorical question.

I know the answer anyways.

[Turn CO Blue]

32. We all already know why we lost... SOUP SANDWICH

deepdown,

if we set-aside election fraud and vote-rigging for a few minutes,

then we are still left with the disheartening realization that millions upon millions of people were willing to vote for the Bush administration.

Why?

These are the main ideas I've absorbed from various sources:

1. LIKEABILITY - Our presidential candidate, while a great man, did not seem to possess the "it" factor (likeability) that plays well for the short-attentioned span of the celebrity-loving population that Americans have become. There are better ways to use marketing, image consultants, stylists, and photo-ops -- and Dems need to learn what those methods are - hire a big-time New York ad agency. We'd have more success than relying on the DNC or DLC.

2. MESSAGE - His campaign team just couldn't seem to get a clear message or stay on message. Regular people are busy - they only have time for a sound-bite or two (except for all of us political junkies)

3. REFRAME - Dems allow the Repubs to choose the language of each issue and debate.

4. CONVICTION/COURAGE - Dems have become so tame, so amenable, so shy of rocking the boat - that they won't stand for anything, even the really important issues. They are always on the defensive, rarely launch offenses or "pre-emptive strikes" (ha!)

5. TEAM - The Dem leadership cannot "row together" in one direction -- too much infighting, some want to go "center", some farther "left", too many generals not enough grunts. As my mother would have said, "they're about as organized as a soup sandwich"!


I reiterate my earlier post - Dems have to run for everything from school board, county commissioner, mayor, and dog catcher. We can make our own tidal wave from the local level. That's where the real changes are made that affect average people.

[T Town Jake]

16. Second, *ahem*, interesting thread...

...I've seen this evening with your imprimatur. That said, I do agree with your point #2 somewhat; pass on the others.

[Demonaut]

18. we fought but the national media NEVER gave us a fair billing

the national media has FAILED the public

[private_ryan]

21. was that a surprise though?

The Kerry camp knew and should've been prepeared. The media loves controversy and a fight. You have to think of how to win each news cycle, you have to have people go out there and reapeat boring talking points. The repubs did that, we didn't.

The national vote means nothing because the blue states had a lousy turnout but an extra 60,000 votes and Kerry would've won.

[pleiku52cab]

23. What national media are you talking about?

The MSM corporate controlled national media sure got THEIR message out - thats the main reason we lost.

[tuvor]

22. No more so than bush deserved to lose. n/t

[private_ryan]

24. Bush was the worst candidate

in decades, horrible economy, a huge mess in Iraq and we still lost.
This adds insult to injury and we'll suffer for the next 40 years because of the Supreme Court.

They decide what the constitution means. Justices read the same constitution and some see abortion rights, freedom of speech, search and seizure protections and some don't. Guess on which side the Bush justices will be on?

[tuvor]

27. I'm confused.

Why are you saying Kerry deserved to lose to the worst candidate? I mean, if you say bush is the worst, that has to mean you think Kerry's the better candidate.

So why did Kerry deserve to lose, in your opinion? And why does your reason not make Kerry the worse candidate?

:shrug:

[private_ryan]

28. I'll tell you why

read the post. I should've said incumbent about Bush...most people I assume understood that.

[wurzel]

25. What is"elitist" about surfing? It is an inexpensive recreation.

Only the hypocritical GOP think it is "elitist".

[private_ryan]

26. you see

the truth doesn't matter. What people think or perceive is all that matters.

[ObaMania]

29. You forgot #5

We were sold up the river by a secret handshake.

That's how it all went down. Otherwise "our guy" would've fought from beginning to end. I went with Kerry to go with the party, but in my heart of hearts, I know Dean would not have gone down without a fight.

There were many opportunities to tear * a new one, and Kerry (maybe under bad management) just sat there giving the impression that everything was fine in *'s 'Murica.

People like the status quo. So that's what we got.

[bemildred]

31. What is this "we" shit?

I didn't do any of those things.

The DNC certainly deserved to lose, but they are not "we" either.
"We" worked our asses off and "we" were right on the issues and on the
facts and "we" were ignored, and "we" deserved to win, and "we" will.

[arwalden]

33. Oh Brother...

... enjoy your attention.

[Moderator]

34. Locking.

This is inflammatory rhetoric not designed to enhance discussion.