Why are people such greedy, acquisitive little primates? Is it the result

[Ruffhowse]

of our culture that celebrates status, materialism and celebrity, or are we just naturally that way?

[Selatius]

1. I blame it on systems based on competition instead of cooperation

It's environment over heredity, imho. Greed is the result.

[kuozzman]

2. Definitely not naturally that way....

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people (e.g., by pitting the cooperation-oriented political left against the competition-oriented political right), until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of the war."
- Abraham Lincoln

"I am convinced that those societies (such as the Native American peoples) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, & restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate." - Thomas Jefferson

[MercutioATC]

3. I disagree. Even birds and rodents collect "shiny things".

So do we.

[Selatius]

4. Well, you'd have to establish why exactly they collect shiny things

To equate what they do to what we do. If they do it because they want more resources and power, then I'd agree. Otherwise, I'll remain a skeptic on the point.

[MercutioATC]

12. Well, here:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/carwash.asp

[amazona]

13. yes but the bird will let go of its shiny thing after awhile

A friend lost his gold bracelet. A few weeks later, the Crow returned it to the bird feeder where, no doubt, he found it in the first place.

Can you imagine a human being doing that? More likely they'd take it down to the pawn shop.

[LostInAnomie]

5. It is the natural evolutionary drive to make ourselves appear better...

... to potential mates. Amassed material wealth appeals to potential mates by giving the appearance that they will be able to provide a living for potential offspring. At least that is how it started out.

Today the appeal of luxury is more of a incentive that potential children's livelihood.

[McKenzie]

6. a subject close to my heart...link inside

It all seems so bloody pointless to accumulate more and more and more "stuff". People are so busy being happy little consumers they have hardly any time to just enjoy living. Even sadder is that shopping is a mainstream "leisure activity". Oh boy. We're on a road to nowhere if that's what the future holds.

Millennia of evolution to create Mozart, Einstein, Hume, Popper, Bohr, Heisenberg et al and the preoccupation of a large part of the community is spending part of many of their weekends buying yet more "stuff". That's the great con trick the capitalist system has pulled off. Happiness is just another big purchase away so the happy little consumers keep buying the "stuff". Whether they need it is a question few happy little consumers have the savvy to ask. Just as well because if there was a big drop in buying "stuff" the system would grind to a halt.

On pre-post message re-read my comments are a tad cynical. But, it is really sad to see that a large part of the population is headed up the blind alley of materialism. I have a theory that the next evolutionary step is in the brain. Unlocking the huge potential of humanity requires us to do something more creative than shopping on a Saturday then staggering back to the car with plastic bags bulging with "goodies".

http://www.buynothingday.co.uk/

[Ruffhowse]

8. I like your post McKenzie. Lately I've been feeling more and more a slave

to my "stuff" and it's got me really wondering about why that is. I'd like to think we were made for better things than the blind accumulation of wealth. Sometimes I feel so programmed to go out and buy more "stuff". I think that's why I like books so much. They are relatively inexpensive (and free for loan at the library) and yet they contain so much of substance that can have an impact on my life. And there are so many of them, I could never possibly read even a fraction of them in a lifetime.

[sweetheart]

9. Householders

In India, it is long been understood (1000's of years) that being
a householder (having a household) is a tremendous burden, managing
stuff, and being all about materialism. Just that culture as well
suggests that there comes a time, when you walk out on that world
and treat the whole planet as your home. (sanyassi)

Yet there is the fact that human beings do indeed "consume" as part
of their existance. As i write now, i'm consuming a coffee, the
refrigerator is consuming electricity and this computer as well. By
my very existance, i am a consumer. It is not so unnatural. What
is unnatural is elevating it to the highest meme position in the
media. Then generations of kids learn from their televisions and
classrooms, that consumption culture is god, above all things.

[leftyandproud]

7. because stuff is cool

I like it.
If you don't want your stuff, give it to me please.

thank you.

[indigobusiness]

10. Deluded about the true nature and meaning

of things.

[datasuspect]

17. i agree with you on this one n/t

[morgan2]

11. the family

Its easy to accept a life where one does not have much. What many people find hard to accept is the responsibility that they didnt do everything they could for those that they are responible.

[Ardee]

14. Well , are we after all?

I reject any assumption that people are naturally as you suggest they are. We have been taught ,from birth, that it is natural to over consume, to seek after shiny and worthless baubles in order to perpetuate a system that needs us to be so.......

[BillZBubb]

15. Voltaire had a good thought on this:

Men must have corrupted nature a little, for they were not born wolves, and they have become wolves.
Voltaire

(With apologies to wolves of course)

[forgethell]

19. Voltaire was wrong, IMO

Men have always been 'wolves'. Archaeologists have uncovered skeletons of people that were obviously murdered that are 10s of 1000s of years old.

The only 'peaceful' societies are those that live in areas that nobody else wants. They were/are dirt-poor, disease-ridden, superstitious. Western societies were no more violent than others, they just got much, much better at it. The Spanish, for instance, did not conquer the Aztecs without a lot of help from tribes subject to them who resented bitterly the sacrifice of their people to the cannibalistic sacrificial rites that were practiced to keep the sun alive.

Man is naturally violent, and that will not change, IMO. What is needed are institutions to harness, channel, and restrain these impulses into something more creative and beneficial.

[Individualist]

16. The "teevee" tells them to buy, and they obey n/t

[forgethell]

18. We're just naturally that way;

it's the result of Darwinian evolution. Acquire, or die: food, territory, sexual partners. Gotta keep those genes flowing through time, or go extinct. Survival of the fittest.

Or do you have another explanation? 'Cause I'd like some hope.

[orpupilofnature57]

20. Fascism is a way of life ,rover's know subliminal incentives,robots

[indigobusiness]

21. Endemic in cultures that see life as an ongoing source of entertainment...

instead of an ongoing lesson.

[Deja Q]

22. Maybe some of both, but definitely exacerbated by the media and corporate

elements. Both are highly dependent on sales of trinkets to remain wealthy.

I look up to people, but I don't treat them like gods, stalk them, or anything else. They've got lives too.

[shance]

23. I think we seek approval and power and we get that from whence

we came, along with our chemical make-up.

I tend to believe we are pretty much our chemical make-up, however we are greatly conditioned by approval and success. I believe our culture defines that approval and success. Those two social/cultural elements things can probably move us out of our comfort zone, and create inspiration and change.

Perhaps we as primates like to dominate more like chimpanzees we do what we know which is the hierarchy/classist stuff, or maybe its a combination of seeking approval in childhood and the hierarchy stuff. Maybe its mainly chemical. Chicken or egg. We are probably a little lazy on the big scheme of things and we certainly vere towards the "its what we know" direction. Would we do it differently if we knew another way? Maybe. Maybe not.

I tend to believe we could if we would allow more of our softer, more creative energy to blend with the more aggressive, dominating energy, which means a little more enlightenment and appreciation of those things not wholly masculine. Its not a either/or male or female issue and I think thats where humans get into trouble. We like simplistic answers and we aint that simplistic. Well, perhaps we are more simplistic, but as far as choices we can be as fluid as we are set in stone, and our choices can upset the apple cart and or not always be simplistic and easy. We are curious creatures.

I think it means we would have to begin valuing feminine energy more than we presently do. We are all composed more or less a little or a lot of both energies, however the masculine is the energy (and traits) more automatically accepted as legitimate, valuable and celebrated in our culture and these days, in our world. Feminine energy and/or traits are most often sexualized, but rarely respected and valued for the many gifts they offer.

I think it ultimately depends on what we value. I think people's desires and needs can be redirected and/or refocused through education and new information. However, that does not erase our inclination or predisposition to aggression. It will probably always be there, and thats not a bad thing. Athletics and other forms of physical efforts are a great form of expression that need aggression and assertiveness.

Seems like the outcome of winning could be something redefined. THe winner/loser mentality is an "either/or" that not only is not fully accurate, its creates linear thinking and perceptions that dismisses the opportunities that come with both a victory and or a "defeat". I guess its how we channel it, how we are taught to channel it, and what channels are socially acceptable and/or "cool" ways to channel that energy.

Seems to me the social aspect of things is pretty powerful with us homosapiens, and that can be a very good thing and a not so great thing at the same time. We seek approval from those whos approval we need and value, and don't like to be out of the loop and ostracized, likewise we are less apt to feel comfortable with those who have been ostracized or stand alone for whatever reasons. I would guess that's the herd mentality other animals experience.

I have no idea whether I answered your question with this "dissertation" or not.

:)

[Sub Zero]

24. Yes, just this nation

if you go to europe you will notice people are FAR less greedy than this country. There is much less of a "get mine and screw everyone else" attitude.