Has propoganda ever been so overtly contemplated?

[EnfantTerrible]

Or is it's overtness just another form of propagand and if so, to what end?

Will there be a public outcry over this? My guess is not a peep...
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By THOM SHANKER and ERIC SCHMITT

Published: December 13, 2004

ASHINGTON, Dec. 12 - The Pentagon is engaged in bitter, high-level debate over how far it can and should go in managing or manipulating information to influence opinion abroad, senior Defense Department civilians and military officers say.

<more>...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/13/politics/13info.html?oref=login&th

[KurtNYC]

1. Like the song says, "For diplomacy to be effective..."

"lies must be credible" -the Bots, 'Fuzzy Math'

Not sure how them talking about which lies to tell helps the credibility but of course the whole thing is a bad idea.

Strategies which rely on secrets remaining secret over the long term, are flawed strategies.

[bryant69]

2. History

Look at propoganda in World War II and in the early part of the cold war. It was very overt and very direct.

What is propoganda? Is it 100% bad? Propoganda has a negative connotation, clearly, which is why we use it. But the Government or Government organizations expressing their point of view or trying to get a message out, well that's been going on under Republicans and Democrats forever.

The problem isn't so much that they are trying to convince others to see their point of view, but whether or not they are doing it honestly (which, given the Bush Administrations track record, seems unlikely).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MadHound]

3. Propaganda is already here, and has been with us for a long time

When you have a corporate controlled media, one that operates in collusion with our corporate controlled government, then everything that you see, read or hear is nothing but propaganda. Sure, there will be grains of truth, but media manipulation and propaganda has been around forever.

All this piece means is that those who are in power are feeling secure enough in their power to possibly allow a limited amount of the truth to emerge, and dare anybody to raise an outcry. But sad to say, any and all information released by those in power has already been managed, manipulated and massaged to the point that it no longer resembles the truth that it once was.

[EnfantTerrible]

5. Absolutely agree with you

I've jujst never seen it written about and debated in the papers. Seems counter productive to me to say "We're thinking about maybe lying to you all... we'll let you know what we decide"

:shrug:

[Solon]

4. This reminds me of a quote...

“I have the greatest admiration for your propaganda. Propaganda in the West is carried out by experts who have had the best training in the world — in the field of advertising — and have mastered the techniques with exceptional proficiency... Yours are subtle and persuasive; ours are crude and obvious... I think that the fundamental difference between our worlds, with respect to propaganda, is quite simple. You tend to believe yours... and we tend to disbelieve ours.”

— Soviet correspondent
based five years in the U.S.

[EnfantTerrible]

6. LOL

Good quote! And oh... how we believe ours...