All right, let's settle this once and for all! Xmas Trees/Nativities poll

[UdoKier]

What's your stand on them?

[UdoKier]

1. Okay, to the people with the pagan fixation...

What relevance, exactly, does the pagan origin of Xmas trees and Yule logs have on the legality of Xmas displays on public property? I can see no relevance whatsoever, and yet you guys bring it up over and over again as though it matters. The cross is also not originally a Christian symbol. Neither is a necklace, unless you call it a "rosary". It's all about context. Why muddy the argument with trivia about the origins of some of the accoutrements?

Seriously, I just don't get it.

[Bridget Burke]

2. Because we like greenery & pretty lights.

And they cheer up the darkest part of the year. They've been doing so for millenia & I see no point in stopping now.

My Catholic nostalgia also appreciates a heartfelt Nativity scene--on private property.

[UdoKier]

3. Okay, that's great.

But I still fail to see what that has to do with the actual ISSUE.

Besides, even pagan decorations are "religious" and subject to the same arguments.

[bloom]

4. I wonder how many people who are cool with religious symbols

on the courthouse lawn are Christians.

[bryant69]

5. I am

I will say this about that option--as an individual I would have little way of knowing whether or not a muslim could set up a monument to his faith or a jew or a buddhist or anybody. I would be fine with it so long as all other religions were respected equally--but my cynical nature suggests that that is unlikely to be the case.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[bloom]

6. It wouldn't be equal - that is the problem.

If all towns were a third one religion, a third, another, and a third another - and they all took turns displaying symbols of their religion - it might seem fair. :shrug: Of course that is not going to happen.

I think what happens a lot of places is the majority is "christian". They have their big deal and people who are not part of it ignore it or tend to feel part of the "out" group (which is part of the intent, I believe), and occasionally someone complains.

I think putting up christmas diplays on gov't/public property does not seem very "christian". Actually - there is no Biblical basis for any of it - the displays, that is, outside of a church/home.

[UdoKier]

15. I'm cool with them and I'm a total atheist

Wife is a buddhist and we still put up a tree. It's strictly tradition for us, zero religion.

[leftynyc]

7. I'm a Jewish New Yorker who will be spending all day

tomorrow seeing all the Xmas windows at the department stores, the tree at Rockeffer Center, the tree at the Met museum and any other festive thing I can find on Fifth Avenue. It's a beautiful time in the city and I'm one of those who just doesn't understand the big deal.

By the same token - I would hope the fundies will have no objection when the pagans/Jews/Moslems/Buddhists want their symbols displayed. I will have no objection to that either.

[Royal Observer]

8. What's not to like about Christmas?

Merry Christmas.

[leftynyc]

11. Back atcha!!!

And a Happy Chanukkah as well!!!

[Lerkfish]

9. my opinion is that holiday displays are not good battles to pick

because in general, all religious holidays have themes of doing good to others, hopefullness, etc., and they only occur seasonally.
When you pick the battle over THOSE symbols and displays, its not the best because you cannot do so without also having to deal with the distraction of appearing to be against doing good to others, hopefullness and so on.

I think the better battlegrounds are things like the pledge of allegiance, which is more indoctrination/intolerance. Or ten commandments on courthouses...because that speaks to whether other religions will get a fair shake in the justice category....Or discrimination against jews at country clubs because it highlights limitations to culture access and opportunity.

all those are good battles, and if you win them, you've accomplished a benefit or prevented a discrimination.

But holiday displays, if you prevent them or protest them, what do you REALLY accomplish? you aren't really blocking indoctrination, you aren't preventing discrimination you aren't healing injustice....you are only ticking people off during their celebration of what are usually good values: giving is better than receiving, sacrifice and selflessness, etc.

You only succeed in marginalizing support for your own cause from people who probably support you on the other more important battlefronts.

IMHO

[ThorsHammer]

10. Well said (nt)

[Royal Observer]

12. Agree

but I would leave the pledge and Ten Commandments alone too.

[UdoKier]

14. I disagree on both counts.

Even if the pledge was returned to its previous secular wording, I would still be opposed to making little kids recite it, since it is nothing more than a form or conditioning and bears NO relationship whatsoever to real patriotism. If anything, it teaches the kind of mindless lemminglike nationalism that is such a problem today.

Little kids reading the pledge do not really comprehend what they are saying, and a great country should not need compulsory allegiance pledges to engender loyalty. A great country would have people volunteering to stand behind it.

As for "Ten Commandments" plaques, they have no place in a courthouse or any public building because they are not MY ten commandments.

Especially since it prohibits worshipping graven images - I believe people are entitled by the constitution to worship whatever they like, even if it's belly-button lint.

Keep Religion out of the public commons!

Decorative holiday displays are cool, but proselytizing, indoctrination, and imposing one religion's rules on all of society are NOT.

[Ravenseye]

13. Not Christian....Don't Care

Look if my town wants to put up a Nativity let them. Of course I live in a fairly dense Jewish neighborhood so it's mostly minorahs this time of year. I've lived other places where there were though and though I'm not christian it never bothered me. There's actually something nice I think about christmas decorations and even nativities. I don't put one up at my house, but I do decorate and we have a tree. It's fun.

I get the whole church and state separation thing, but as a non-christian it doesn't bother me at all.

Of course if they wouldn't allow any other decorations I might have a problem with them on rational grounds.