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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 07:45 PM
Original message
Proposed: a new MORATORIUM
In October, 1969, millions of Americans from all walks of life took part in one of the largest and most dramatic events in the history of the country; one that not only shifted American foreign policy but also served to reshape and redefine the social culture of our great republic.

I propose that we who saved our nation 35 years ago from conservatives bent on its destruction lead a new effort to thwart the gangster thugs who again threaten democracy and freedom here and abroad. I propose a new Moratorium be observed.

This Moratorium should not focus only on the immoral and wasteful war in Iraq where so many of our youth are being sacrificed, but it should be on a wider scale: aimed directly at the efforts by this Administration and the religious zealots behind it who have bent all their will at undoing the great social progress engineered during the 1960s and 1970s.

They mean to destroy that progress by vilifying us and our efforts. They mean to supplant our influence by counting on our waning influence in American society. They mean to survive as our generation dies out. I propose that we re-invigorate the movement we began with a New Counterculture and re-inculcate in today's youth a healthful mistrust of authority and love of freedom, both of which the lords of Conservatism are working hard to erode and destroy.

By way of a history lesson, the Moratorium on October 15, 1969, was one of the most successful movements of its kind that the world has ever known. On that date, more Americans protested against their government than had ever done so before - or since. The event required nine months of planning, involved what would now be millions of dollars in expense, and involved traditional rallies and marches, vigils and other observances. Many of these were endorsed by public figures.

If this new Moratorium takes place, I respectfully suggest that it be done through grassroots efforts and not by those organizations which created the anti-war demonstrations leading up to the present Iraq war. Those organizations are associated with militant fringe groups and enabled a valid criticism that their agenda was motivated more by hatred of all things American. We should wish NO such distractions for this new effort.

It should be clear from the outset that this is an American internal movement, aimed at restoring the American ideas of freedom and liberty that the Right is so bent on destroying.

In many ways, the present efforts to undermine our Constitution and our liberties are a direct outgrowth to the success of the first Moratorium and the social change which grew from it. Conservatives have spent the past decades regrouping and reforming; now they have returned to attack American values with a vengeance never before seen in the history of civilization.

We who fought for the academic, political and personal freedoms enjoyed by so many for so long owe our renewed service to secure those freedoms for a new generation and for all generations to come. But we cannot do it alone; we require the help of this generation - those of you who are younger than we and who look to this board and others like it for inspiration in your own efforts to stop the gangsterism that pervades our government.

Although this board is a great place to gripe and complain about our current status and influence, it is also a great tool to organize and develop countermeasures. The war for freedom, begun so many years ago, is at its darkest hour and it is time to STRIKE back through coordinated, effective ACTION. Words alone will not save our nation - only by taking our cause to the streets and among the people can we secure for ourselves and our posterity the blessings of FREEDOM.

Let us initiate the Moratorium of SATURDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2005.


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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fantastic post!!!!
:kick:
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evil genius Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. sorry I got an appointment to have my SUV detailed that day...
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Take a look at this symbol: *
Then follow these steps:
1. Find President Bush and make wild, passionate love to him.
2. In the afterglow of your passion, examine Our Leader's body and find an aperture that matches the * symbol.
3. Insert your head and leave it there.

But remember, the problem with having your head up someone's ass is that you never know when he will turn around on you.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. LOL!!!
:D
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evil genius Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. jeez just a joke
and you misplace my allegance. I hate that jackass more than anybody. While I think your idea was noble and well intentioned, it is naive to believe that it would work. It amounts to a symbolic action, which actually delays real reform. How can you have a protest in a county where protesters are moved to inaccessible containment area? This country was bought and paid for a long time ago.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Then join the fight.
As King Lear said, nothing will come from nothing. This is a republic built on symbols and the greatest symbol of all is thousands of people in the street or marching to the polls to change out the few who hold the reins of government. If the protests are confined to a containment area, simply overflow the containment area. The people who think they own this nation now are the same who thought they owned it back then. It is easy to be cynical, difficult to put your life and liberty on the line for freedom - yet there have been millions of people who have done so and the world is better for it.

When our Republic began, it did so with a revolution led by a very small minority; the majority did not believe it was possible to be free of a king. It was not the majority but the radical minority that built this country; it was the radical minority that saved it again 35 years ago. Join the fight for yourself, your children and your children's children.
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evil genius Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. you won't get ignition on something like that
until the Wingnuts do something radical like tax tea or ban abortion. I'm the biggest democrat there is, but I'm not radicalized yet. Mere election fraud does not rise to the level of a revolution. Nor does a protracted middle east occupation. In fact, election fraud is part of the game and I'm pissed at Kerry for letting them outmanouver him.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Well, here's some fuel for you --
The Right believes abortion providers should be murdered
The Right believes "deviants" should die - and they say who the deviants are.
The Right believes your child should be a Christian - and they say what a Christian is
The Right believes that science is "liberal" and that liberal ideas are a decadence the nation can no longer abide

None of this was in the cards 35 years ago when the chief threat to the nation was loss of economic and political control to the lobbyists and professional politicians acting in the interest of an oligarchial state. Now the threat is more primal and universal, reaching into the very nature of constitutional liberty and Enlightenment thought. They don't only want to control your financial destiny, they want to control your mind and your soul. Nothing like this was contemplated years ago, but that's what's on the table now. Nothing less than the American soul is at stake today.

If you and others aren't radicalized by this, then I predict you will be before this Adminsitration leaves office. If it ever does.
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evil genius Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. they pay lips service or they very gradually avance their agenda
which is what makes them such pernicious twits. A major threshold has to be at least approached before a revolution can happen, let alone change anything.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well, you only have to wait
For the stormtroopers to kick in your door and take away your children for teaching them "liberal" values, which to them is akin to child cruelty. It is no stretch to say that this day is coming, because we learn from the Washington Post today that parents are investigated as suspected terrorists after "do-gooders" thought statements by their child were "un-American." You have only to wait for the military to begin rounding up members of this board who are identified as potential threat simply because they are registered on this website. You have only to wait before these things happen because that day is coming and coming soon. These thugs will provide more impetus to organize and fight back than we ever could; all we have to do is prepare for the day when the critical mass crests and we can take back America. But we have to step forward. We have to act. The fuel for the fire is all around us, just waiting for someone to strike a spark.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. If you had been around in 69' you would sing a different song.
Do we really have to see 50,000 young Americans die in the name of misplaced patriotism before the truth becomes evident?

I hope not, and I'm saddened to see folks giving up before trying.

There's a lot of merit to the idea.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Vietnam Moratorium by Jeremy Brecher (1969)
Might be interesting to look at what was written about the Moratorium of '69 in relation to where we are today. In 1969 we had already had several years of grass roots peace and anti war movement--and all this in the context of the racial equality, free speech and cultural changes heralded by the Sixties.

Where we are now is a much different and far more dangerous situation. I have absolutely no doubt that the powers that be are now ready to use subterfuge and massive violence masked as terrorism against the citizenry--and, indeed, may do so regardless of the building of such movements. Kennedy said it: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."

The Vietnam Moratorium by Jeremy Brecher (1969)

True mass movements develop quickly; they contain contradictory impulses; they change rapidly in the face of events their leaders cannot control. The great mass movement called the Moratorium already shows three explicit political strands, each with its own assumptions and its own trajectory for the movement.

1) For the great majority of participants, the Moratorium is essentially an _expression of sentiment, based on the hope that such an _expression will somehow sway the President to change his course. They show somewhat the touching spirit of the Russian peasants who demonstrated on Bloody Sunday, 1905, in the belief that if only the Czar knew the people's misery he would save them. In this case, however, faith is put not in the magical mantle of divine authority, but in the equally magical belief that 'the government represents the people' and therefore will act upon their will. A more sophisticated version maintains that politicians in a democracy must respond to public pressures; the example is given of Johnson's reversal of Vietnam policy in the face of overwhelming public pressure. But the fact is that even Johnson's extreme political isolation, which would have led to the fall of any parliamentary government in the world, led him only to make a change in strategy, while leaving half-a-million men in Vietnam.

To the extent that the Moratorium remains within this framework it has no future, for the October 15th demonstrations alone were enough to show overwhelming popular desire to get out of Vietnam, as did the October Gallup Poll showing that a bill to withdraw all U.S. troops from Vietnam by the end of 1970 was supported nearly two-to-one. If the Moratorium retains this view, it may grow for a month or two, but after that it will gradually fade away, leaving little effect on the actual course of events.

2) The second strand constitutes opposition politics. It is essentially a continuation of the Kennedy-McCarthy movement of 1968-even the faces are the same. It too is based on a touching faith in the electoral process, seemingly impervious to the results of experience. Its proponents have not learned the obvious lesson of the 1968 campaign that the electoral process is controlled from above, not below. They have not learned the obvious lesson of the A.B.M. struggle: that the real power over governmental action does not lie in elected bodies. They have not noticed that Nixon ran as a 'Peace candidate', as did our other Vietnam War Presidents, 'we seek no wider war' Johnson and 'let us put a truce to terror' Kennedy, before him.

Naturally, there are always politicians who are willing to associate themselves with 'peace' when peace is popular. Thus, for example, Teddy Kennedy and George McGovern both associated themselves with the Moratorium by speaking on October 15-and proposed that all troops should be withdrawn by 1972! Several top Moratorium organizers themselves see it as a jumping-off point for their own political careers: Adam Walinsky, who all but took over the New York Moratorium office, is planning his campaign for state attorney-general, and Sam Brown, national director of the Moratorium, is talking, about a Massachusetts congressional campaign.

The program of this approach will be to keep the Moratorium going for a few more months, then swing it into the 1970 primaries and elections, building a base for a McCarthy-style campaign in 1972. Its main requirements are that the movement remain respectable, give visible support and loyalty to likely candidates, and continue to grow for a few months until it can be channeled into electoral action.

3) The third strand is confrontation. In its extreme form, as practiced by Weatherman, it is rejected by most of the Moratorium movement, but as the legacy of the civil rights movement and the old Mobilization Committee, its basic idea that 'power is in the streets' remains the frame of reference for most radicals in the peace movement. It assumes that each confrontation simultaneously advertises the radicals' cause and undermines the claim of the government to represent the popular will. If the government uses violence, it presumably de-legitimates itself further with the population by showing that the basis of its power is not consent but force. At some point in the escalation of demonstrations, the demonstrators (as Staughton Lynd once imagined it) simply march to the White House and in their overwhelming numbers take back control of the country.

The first problem with this approach is quite obviousuntil the military and police power of the state dissolves, it is based on sheer fantasy. As the efforts to 'storm' the Pentagon in the October, 1967 Mobilization, the battles at the 1968 Democratic Convention, and the recent Weatherman demonstrations in Chicago show, such tactics are essentially suicidal; not only because of the direct effects of the state's brutality on demonstrators, but because few sane people deliberately offer themselves up as victims of police brutality where there is no other gain to be made. That is one reason why confrontation actions have had steadily fewer participants each time since the Pentagon demonstrations of 1967, even while opposition to the war grew by leaps and bounds.

The second problem is perhaps more important. The favorite tactic of an unpopular ruling group is to turn the sentiment of the population against the radical opposition. Since confrontation can always be interpreted as a deliberate provocation of violence, it plays directly into the hands of the authorities, who through their control of the press can make even a non-violent confrontation appear a deliberate act of violence. Even such flagrant official aggression as that of Daley's cops at the 1968 Democratic Convention was palmed off as 'demonstrators' violence' to a majority of the population. Thus, the prime political objective of confrontation fails; the government is permitted to portray itself as the bastion of public interest and public order under attack by a few violent malcontents. The radicals, desiring to show to the people their own power, reveal instead only the weakness of demonstrators before the military power of the state.

The program of the confrontationists will be primarily to make the Moratorium demonstrations more 'militant'-that is, essentially to seek conflict with the police rather than to avoid it. If the Moratorium and Mobilization Committees do not adopt such a course, they will attempt to generate such confrontations through separate demonstrations and organizations. The result will be a tendency toward splitting of the movement, falling off of mass support, new vulnerability to governmental attack, and no doubt a few concussions.

II

All of these tendencies are rooted in the idea that real power lies in Washington. But the Moratorium movement also contains the seeds Despite the apparent power of the men in Washington to make the crucial decisions, it is not they who keep the country going, who do its work and fight its wars. Rather, it is the people-the same people who support two-to-one the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Vietnam. If they refuse to work-if they strike-the war must end. Indeed, the Moratorium itself was originally conceived as a general strike against the war, but was watered down by leaders who, as the New York Times put it, "liked the idea of political action but not the threat of a strike." To end the war, the Moratorium must more and more become a general strike against the war. It is here that the real power of the movement lies, not in playing politics or playing with violence.

Of course, a general strike does not come into being simply because some organization calls for it. It will only come about if public sentiment moves from a mere dislike of the war to a decision to force it to end, and if the movement puts its faith in itself, not in politicians who promise but won't-or can't-deliver. But as long as the government continues the war, the movement against it will grow and deepen, and the Moratorium will be able to take on more and more the character of a general strike.

How can the Moratorium movement develop towards a general strike? First, by constantly widening its support. Second, by developing more and more job walkouts as part of its monthly protests. If such walkouts spread, the Moratorium thereby becomes a symbolic general strike. If even that fails to force an end to the war, the groundwork will have been laid for a real general strike, with the population halting production and providing for its own essential services until the government stops the war. The key in all these steps lies in the workplace organizations.

Throughout the country, workplace committees have sprung up spontaneously to coordinate participation in the October and November demonstrations. In New York, for example, Moratorium committees were formed by employees in each of the major newspapers, T.V. stations, and publishing houses; in Boston, by secretaries and lab workers at M.I.T.; in Washington, by workers in each government agency.

The main activities of such groups so far have been recruiting for participation in demonstrations and education teach-ins, discussions, and meetings for fellow workers.

Even such elementary exercises of Constitutional rights have often brought conflict with the employers over peace work during working hours and the use of employers' facilities. Thus, at both the New York Times and the National Institute of Mental Health the use of auditoriums was refused for October 15. In the latter case, the ban was overturned by an injunction secured by the workers against their governmental employer. Thus, such a movement automatically raises the most fundamental questions of participatory democracy and socialism: workers' control of their own work time and work place, and their responsibility for the overall direction of society.

The prime objective of each workplace organization should be participation of a majority of their fellow workers either in workplace educational meetings or as a group in demonstrations on each Moratorium day, eventually including mass walkout.

III

Such great social events as general strikes do not usually result from a single source of discontent; rather, they are a response to the piling up of one grievance on another, one action on another. So far action against the war has come primarily from middle-class and white collar people. However, those who fight against the war directly will have new allies in the coming months, for the government has deliberately put the burden of the war on those who can least afford it.

While fighting against tax reform, Nixon has demanded that the special war surtax remain. He has deliberately adopted policies which create unemployment in order to restrain war-generated inflation. This, combined with the fact that real take-home pay of workers had decreased each year since the escalation of 1965, means that strikes will increase and become more bitter. Pressure on business to cut payrolls will lead to attempts at speed-up, with a resulting increase in wildcat strikes. As Labor Secretary Shultz said recently, "there will be a lot of tension ... I imagine there will be strikes ... this is part of the process of sorting out and rearranging the sense of direction of the economy."

Strikes and resulting wage increases will make the economic consequences of the war still less manageable for Nixon. The rise of discontent will undermine the lock-step patriotism of those who today still think it disloyal to oppose the President. Thus, the effects of this strike movement will converge with those of the growing anti-war strike movement.

IV

A things become more serious, Nixon may attempt a counter-attack against the peace movement -everything from red-baiting to jailing leaders and shooting at demonstrators. By these means he may scare off many of the politicians who have seen benefit in supporting the movement, and even break up the national organizations which have led it. For these results the movement must be ready: it must be prepared to lead itself.

At this point the workplace organizations again become critical. For they can carry on the movement on their own initiative, no matter what happens to the movement's national leadership. Even coordination of dates for their action will be no problem because of the monthly pattern which has been established. As the real power of the antiwar movement lies in the people, so in their own organizations, lies the people's power to act.

The course of action for opponents of the war is thus clear: set up a Moratorium or strike committee where you work. Coordinate directly with other workplace organizations. Organize teach-ins, educational meetings, and participation in Moratorium-day demonstrations among your co-workers. Move these actions as rapidly as possible toward mass walkouts.

Jeremy Brecher was once Northwest regional organizer for SDS. He was also an Associate Fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, D.C. and co-editor of Left Mailings, a new radical pamphlet series.

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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. And for all that, Brecher was more RIGHT than WRONG
Edited on Fri Dec-17-04 08:27 PM by GarySeven
The Moratorium did change the world. It freed our generation and our father's generation from implicit trust in the government and restored, however briefly, our control over it. Yet the social change was much more dramatic than could have been appreciated in 1969 or in years later.

The similarities between those times then and these times now are not as profound or as scary as you seem to think. Then, it was possible - as the Chicago police ably demonstrated - to use Birmingham-style tactics to crush popular uprisings. Since then, there has been Kent State and a 24/7 media, including websites like this, to call the thugs for what they are.

The strongest thing I can say in response is this. During the student uprising in China, a country which seems to be the model for this administration, one person stood in front of a tank and made it stop. Yes, that revolution was crushed but not forgotten. Revolutions seldom succeed in the generation in which they were born. The patriot is the person who asks why.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. What is our analysis of the situation we are in?
Apparently you believe that protest is an effective mechanism for social change. Millions of people marched in this country and around the world to stop the war in Iraq. It was exhilarating to be amongst them and I do not regret my participation one bit. However, we see clearly that they were not effective in preventing the war--any more than the collective efforts of millions of people were effective in preventing * and his cabal from further ensconcing themselves in the halls of DC power. I worked hard to see Kerry elected but I was not the least bit surprised that the election turned out the way it did. I am quite certain that these evil fucks are not going to leave the offices they hold without a fight--and I mean that quite literally. Everything they have done since 2000 and everything they are doing now indicates to me without any doubt that they have no intention of EVER leaving office. Individual persons, yes; but the now intrenched fascism, no.

How do you see this situation?
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Success in a Great Movement is never achieved overnight
It won't be done in one year or two years or more years, but it will be done once we take that first Great Step of REMEMBERING that which we are and the promise of our country.

One of the hardest lessons of history and of our personal lives is that people do not appreciate what they have unless it is taken from them. The Conservatives are bent on taking away our freedom and in doing so they are doing more to incite radicalism than any organizing effort on our part. All we have to do is to be there, to meet the swelling critical mass, when time and opportunity converge to force a great reckoning. If we start today and remember that our nation is a nation of Enlightenment thought and the heritage of liberty-seeking forebears, then perhaps that day can be the day of the new Moratorium in October, 2005.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. I appreciate your optimism
I personally don't share it because what I see around me are mostly people who have no idea what is actually going on in the world around them. These are the most dangerous kind of people because their understandings of what is happening can very easily be manipulated by others.

My analysis is that we are being lead into a time that will be far darker than the second world war -- and that this new global war will not only be fought 'over there' but right here. In other words, there will be US citizen casualties and there will be damage to our physical, economic and social/political infrastructures.

The question is who and or what is driving these events? If, as the American people are being lead to believe, the drivers are "terrorists" from abroad, and other nations who want to cripple our global power (which they do), then that will be the perceived enemy, the focus of their attention and opposition. Efforts to mount an effective moratorium against that will be difficult at best.

It is quite a different struggle if the majority of the American people understand that this situation is being driven by a very elite class of citizens who use proxies to undermine our national security. It would be a very different struggle if the American people understood that they have solidarity--common interests--with people of other nations AGAINST this class of citizens--the real economic terrorists who hate our freedoms. I don't see much awareness of this even here in this forum, much less across the broad spectrum of American citizens.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. There is NOTHING DIFFERENT between then and now
The same forces are at work, and they are just as dangerous. They used assassination and threats then, just as they do now. The only difference is that you see a wider picture now than you could have then; perhaps that wider perspective makes you more cautious about a new success.

If we had known then how difficult the job was, perhaps we wouldn't have taken a stand, either. The point is, however, that we DID make a stand, we DID change the world, if only for a little while. The only trouble was we didn't carry the revolution long enough to make it sustainable through the economic realities of the seventies and eighties. Fine, we will learn from our mistakes this time and BURY conservativism once and for all.

It only takes enough people in the streets, agitating, to make it economically unfeasible for them to resist us. If we fill the jails and the prisons and the courts, it will shut down their infrastructure; if we force them through this to use harsher means of repression, it will reveal the brutality of their lust for power to kindred souls from across the globe and THEY will join us - perhaps even by economically blockading the US, to interdict trade and, yes, even to intervene militarily. All in all, it makes more sense to ACT than to ROLL OVER. If we roll over now, it will betray our children to the hobnailed boot of tyranny forever.
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Cool! Sorta
Edited on Fri Dec-17-04 08:32 PM by gorbal
Great idea, there is just one part that bothered me a bit.


Quote-
"If this new Moratorium takes place, I respectfully suggest that it be done through grassroots efforts and not by those organizations which created the anti-war demonstrations leading up to the present Iraq war. Those organizations are associated with militant fringe groups and enabled a valid criticism that their agenda was motivated more by hatred of all things American. We should wish NO such distractions for this new effort."

I might rephrase that. I understand the need to focus the issue better, I was at four of the last major protests and thought that the many other issues being tossed around got a bit confusing. However if you want to distance yourself from any organizatons associated with militant fringe groups, you might well be the only one there.

Except maybe for the black block, who will probably show up whether you like it or not, as will the freepers. There is a debate going as to whether they are one in the same. The Socialists for Kerry ARE freepish however.

:)
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I simply mean that this should be an AMERICAN insurgency
There are plenty of people who think that the only thing wrong with the world is that America exists in it. These people are ideologically similar to those Conservatives who think the only thing wrong with America is some of the Americans existing in it. One has to hand it to the organizational power of those groups who organized the anti-war protests, but it should be understood that most who attended those protests believed more in the promise of America than those who organized them. This is why the protests stopped after American troops were committed to battle. We must make sure that our rationale for protest is understood to be different from those who see only evil in America.
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Well let's not neg your idea by arguing
There are arguments that I could make, but I don't want to neg your idea by arguing, I think it is a great idea and that's realy what's important.

:)
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Great - let's get a website
and start agitating.
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:15 PM
Original message
Cool!
Post it when you make it.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. We need the web generation!!
In '69 we had other, less effective means of getting the word out and we had an infrastructure of existing groups to call upon. Similar groups exist now, but they are linked by web technology. We need those who know how to use it; how to create websites that attract traffic and search engines. This needs to be a wiki movement, with everyone contributing dynamically to the process.

In other words, if I could do a website, I would. But I will do what I can to add content and do my share.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. that part bothered me as well....
I presume that it was directed at International ANSWER et al. Now granted, I support most of ANSWER's positions on issues that are only tangentially related to the invasion and occupation of Iraq, particularly those having to do with matters of international justice and abuse of state power, so I find them not at all misaligned with my personal politics. More to the point however, groups like ANSWER were instrumental in mobilizing opposition to the Bush foreign policy and the invasion of Iraq. They are the organizations that have demonstrated both committment and operational ability far beyond that of most nascent anti-war organizations who seek to limit their focus to that issue alone.

Furthermore, I'd argue that there is a real need to continue linking anti-war sentiment to other global issues-- Americans are far too ignorant of the international context in which their foreign policy causes havoc. That's why the neocon spin machine can STILL get mileage out of crap like "they hate us for our freedom." The occupation of Iraq is not just George Bush's megalomaniacal spoiled frat boy outburst, although it is that as well. It's also part and parcel of a greedy, evil, and utterly immoral foreign policy that works for the oppression of poor and working people around the world. It is in fact class warfare. International ANSWER understands this, and most Americans do not.

Divorcing the anti-war movement from the international context in which the occupation of Iraq is proceding will only reinforce that myoptic American belief that we are the center of our own universe. Ultimately that helps the neocons in power and their corporate masters even if it presents them with short term opposition to the war.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I don't entirely disagree ...
I admire their organizational skills, but I want a broader message than anti-war. To me, it's more important to attack the Christian militantism behind the Conservatives, which has nothing to do with Christianity or politics - it's nothing less than an assault on the entire panoply of social advance during the past 100 years; a repeal of the 20th Century. The Iraq war is only one manifestation of a thousand ways they have conspired to wrest not only our control of our own destiny, but even our ability to control it. ANSWER is somewhat shortsighted on this and for the wrong reasons. Anyway, they alienate more than unify.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. What do you want us to do exactly? (nt)
nt
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Let's begin as we did before ...
The first step is to create awareness that such an idea as a Moratorium exists. Put up a website, put up flyers, tell your friends.
Repeat this message across this board and other boards. Post on blogs. Write to blogs. Do anything and everything you can think of to get people thinking about next October 15 as a day of reckoning for America and its flirtation with Conservativism. Make people aware that on that date we want to show the thugs and zealots the true strength of the silent majority of patriotic lovers of our liberal, Enlightenment heritage.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. What is a Moratorium? (nt)
nt
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It means STOP
For one day, everything comes to a complete STOP. No work, no services, nothing but protest.

Think about it. It will scare the piss out of them.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/13/1st.draft/
http://home.sandiego.edu/~hbarns/Moratorium.html
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
24. If I remember correctly, black armbands were worn
as a sign of unity across the US. I was in 10th grade and didn't know about it until the Juniors and Seniors who had worn black armbands all day locked arms and blocked the doors when classes began after lunch.

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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Can you imagine the effect ...
... of thousands of people, all of a like mind, shutting down the schools, the factories, the banks - everything of commercial importance for one day of protest.

It would scare the bejesus out of the enemies of democracy and freedom. It would even have to be on Fox news.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. One thing to remember
is that Kent State took place 7 months later. Several in this administration came from that era and worked with Nixon. Now they would just label everyone a terrorist. I'm not trying to discourage your idea, I just believe in everyone being aware of the facts.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yes, Kent State did take the wind out of the sails of the counterculture .
which says more about US than it does about THEM. We expect THEM to shoot and kill and assassinate; it's what conservatives do, after all. They prefer bullets over ballots, as they have proved time and again - and in more countries than ours.

I'm no hero and I have no real zeal to die for my beliefs, but it does seem to me that somewhere, sometime, someone has to make a stand against tyranny. The student revolution in China was crushed, but before it was there was one man who dared to stand in front of a tank. The chief thing to remember about that incident is this: the TANK DRIVER STOPPED. Yes, that insurgency was crushed, but we are left with that indelible memory which is now woven into the consciousness of freedom-loving people everywhere.

We in the West have had it easy for the past 200 years because we have grown to accept the notion that people have the power to change tyranny. Yet when tyranny steals an election, or kills one of our leaders, we throw up our hands and worry that we might not be successful. I simply remind you that in the rest of the world, where the notion of an individual's power to change the world has NEVER taken root, there are people who still feel moved to change the tyrants around them - and they do bring them down, with more violence than we in the West seem able to stand.

No one wants a violent revolution, but if you are going to have a peaceful one then you must at least be willing to brave the violence of those prepared to maintain their power. If there is a weakness at the core of this revolution, it will be sensed and exploited by the other side. This is why the Guardsmen at Kent State were able to do what the entire Nixon administration couldn't - they killed the counterculture.

It didn't have to be that way. The reaction should have been thousands, millions in the streets the next day, surrounding the White House, surrounding the Ohio state house, shutting down the government. It is within the power of the people to make the necessary changes, but only if we demonstrate that there is no central weakness within our resolve to be exploited. We must be willing to tell them that they may kill some of us, but they can never kill all of us. This is how Gandhi and MLK did it, even though they themselves paid for their cause with their own lives.

Their assassins made the mistake of confusing their ideas with their ability to speak them; they did not understand - and, being conservative could NOT understand - that their leadership by example was worth more than all their words.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. Awesome post and AWESOME PSEUDONYM, by the way!!
Great episode of Star Trek too... pity "Assignment: Earth" did not become a series. (and it was a pilot for one that Gene Roddenberry proposed.)
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I thank you, and Isis thanks you ...
Have you seen Teri Garr? She borrowed my pen in 1968 and hasn't given it back.
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