FEAR RULES - is this what we want?

[radfringe]

This post has raised a few questions and before it fades into response overload -- I like to comment on it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2836156&mesg_id=2836156

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my partner is also "concerned" and "afraid" of my involvment on the DU and similar activities. She has expressed this many times. Other Duers have also mentioned that a partner/spouse etc are also "fearful"

What's wrong with this picture? We are suppose to be living in a democracy where FREEDOM OF SPEECH is one of our VALUES. The bush*it spin is that we invaded Iraq to bring the Iraqi people their freedoms and OBL/terrorists are attacking us because they hate our freedoms....

What Freedoms do we have when people are afraid of speaking out, of standing up, of defending our VALUES of DEMOCRACY? Were you afraid of speaking out before bush* was (s)elected? Were you concerned that "men-in-black" would be knocking on your door? What does this say about our country? Our "freedoms"?

Is this the country we want where we censor our words and thoughts? During the 50's we saw McCarthyism -- the Soviet Union was going to nuke us, Communism was going to take over -- better dead than red. Are we not in the same situation? Iraq is going to nuke us, Iran is going to nuke us, North Korea is going to nuke us, Radical Islam is going to take over -- better shut up or you are dead.

If we don't stand up and speak out -- then who will? Do we sit around and wait for someone to invade us in order to give us "freedoms"? Should we go hide in the celler and speak only in whispered tones lest a bushie reports us to the "speech-police"? Is this the country we want? If we don't speak out, if we don't stand up -- then it's going to be the country we deserve.

[demnan]

1. I plan to put this to the test next year

After my 401K vests I plan to look for another job, as my current one is boring as hell. I actually have a bit of skill with databases and data mining and all that stuff, not just the web development I'm doing now. There is a company contracting to intelligence work that is very interested in me. If I officially apply and pass their screening, they can start a clearance on me. I've had clearances in the past up to the Top Secret special investigative level, if I can get one reactivated, being that I'm a member of ACLU, women's groups, my local Democratic party, etc. and a poster here I would say you have nothing to worry about.

I have a very close friend, also a Democrat, but not too critical of Bush, who works with this company and does quite a bit of intelligence internet snooping. I truly believe she would tell me if there were a chance that someone was snooping on me.

[radfringe]

2. no bash intended

so don't take this the wrong way --

but it's a sad state when we are concerned about government snooping effecting our employment prospects

[demnan]

6. Yeah, I hear you

But I meant this in a positive way. I'm not afraid, not yet anyway. I'm sure they'd inprision Michael Moore and Al Franken first. As long as these guys can say what they want, I'm sure no one is worried about me.

Air America broadcasts all day long. If they really wanted to crush dissent, do you think they would allow them to get new stations and all?

[HereSince1628]

3. Now, we know some of the answers about Soviet and Nazi life

I spent my formative years in the immediate aftermath of the McCarty era, it was not uncommon to hear teachers say things like "What are you a commie?"

Throughout school people I hung around with kept asking 'Why do the people put up with it?'

The same question can now be asked of Merkuns. And the answer is, fear, half the country believes the nation has to behave like a bully or we will be the victim of a bully.

The other half is afraid of speaking out because of the Bully the nation has become.

[GreatAuntK]

5. It is a sad time

But I'm not afraid, and I'm even hopeful. I guess I know some very good people in my life, and even so many of them don't agree with my politics - they've been marketed to - I have faith in their goodness, once they realize what is coming up.

And, once again, my optimism is tempered with the knowledge that nothing may change if we continue to vote into The Machine.

[Deja Q]

4. Fear keeps people in line. And it's effective.

The only thing I know is that I really don't know. Maybe it's my ADD.

Maybe it's being overblown by the media. Maybe it's all mere perception that's affecting us more than we realize. Or maybe it's true.

I can say I've been hesitant to talk to my counselor about the job situation and offshoring, which Bush* supports. I know it will happen to me. I had been working on furthering my IT career, but it seems pointless to do so at this point, so I'm going to find another field. Just to expand on ability so I can be useful in the future. Assuming there is one... and ability is not all that an employer wants. They want somebody who'll fit in on a personal level, to 'click'. It's an unspoken rule. People get hired and fired because they 'don't fit in with the group'. Doesn't mean there's a big conspiracy against them. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean it's anything to think too much into either.

But some of the articles posted on LBN are a load of bunk that some HAD responded so ludicrously I have to wonder why they aren't on medication or hadn't been considered investigated. (One example: LBN article on bugged conference room in Geneva. From yahoo. It mentioned that a bug was found and that no less than 5 countries had used it. Then it blithered on about how great and posh the room was, making me wonder about just how genuine or useful the article truly was. A lot of people instantly blamed the US when Britain or China also stand out readily. Russia maybe. But I doubt the 5th country, France, would have been the culprit (but what do I know?) That's a knee-jerk reaction to instantly point fingers at the US without an atom of proof, though I can see why people would react like that.

How is all of this bleating on my part relevant to free speech? Let me know...

I can say, again out of perception from the government's point of view, that thanks to scum like Timothy McVeigh, maybe they do want to look out for anyone who speaks up against the government. There is a line between freedom of speech and real threats. I have seen some posts on DU which blur the line. And I generally avoid those. I can see why they would be investigated. And the fact they're still here after posting that they'd been visited means the authorities found them to be no real threat. What is the problem? What if there's something else not being said that is distorting our perception?

If we are being spied on, I'm sure we'll know about it eventually. And who needs DU? I can think of a 100 effective ways they could look at people.

Has anybody from free republic been spied on? They can get outrageous too.

[Malva Zebrina]

7. Some take "fight" and some take "flight"

Some are reticent and yes, fearful. That carries over to other situations in their life, also, not just the realm of politics. We are all, after all, only human beings.

There must emerge a visible mob of angry,mad as hell, fighting people,rising up against this, who also will make sense. Whether you are a Malloy fan or not, he said something that I think is the truth. I heard him say to a young caller who was lamenting the stiuation, that it is now up to the young people--we are getting old--our legs hurt and we do not have the energy we once had, as we did in the sixties.

Once it begins, those who are naturally reticent and shy away, not wanting to make waves, will join in under the comfort(protection?) of large numbers who are also doing it.

my two cents

[Flammable Materials]

8. FUCK FEAR.

I'm not afraid of shit.

If you shut up, the terrorists in the White House win.