My 83 year old dad is scared to death about the rise of Fascism in US

[PlanetBev]

We talked about Bill Moyers final show last night and my dad said it depressed the hell out of him. He really bemoans the fact that the few courageous honest voices are disappearing and being replaced by more and more lunatics like Hannity and O'Reilly. We talked about cable news propaganda and my dad told me that hates the mainstream news even more for being too cowardly to inform the American people what is going on in this country.

God, I hate the thought of losing guys like this. I have a feeling that most WW2 vets have a damn good idea that this country is becoming the very thing they fought against, but they're dying off at a very brisk rate.

Anybody else been having heart to heart talks with their veteran moms and dads?

[NMDemDist2]

1. my inlaws have thrown up their hands and given up

:cry:

[Pachamama]

94. Sorry to hear that...my Inlaws refuse to give up...in fact, even after we

and others in our family would find ourselves in the situation where we need to leave the country some day if it gets bad enough, my Inlaws who are in their mid-70's, plan to stay and "fight"...

My Father-in-law, a retired professor, says that he never thought he would see the day when things in our country are so bad that they were literally in situation to make him feel that Mcarthyism wasn't even that bad as compared to what is happening now and will be coming down the pike...

There is no doubt in their minds (nor mine) that fascism is on the rise here and that the uneducated and ignorant and brain-washed by the manipulative media have absolutely no clue about what is going on and wouldn't see it until it came knocking on their door and took them away....

:cry:

PS: Hey AZdemdistrict6....:hi: I was down your way in October doing campaign work...I knew AZ was a long shot, but I tried there too...but I got to tell you, a friend lived nearby McCain's house in Phoenix and he didn't have a Bush sign out...but none the less, he whored himself for the Bushies, didn't he....thanks to you and the rest of the blue patriots for trying!

[NMDemDist2]

100. and try we did weekend after weekend, night after night

:cry:

only one precinct in my dist went blue, in spite of our work

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. O'really pulls a sex stunt and avoids impeachment (figuratively speaking)

What a great moral compass to be spouting "Shut up, just shut up" at Faux Snooze.

[MADem]

3. I have heard the same concerns from a number of that generation

Both warfighters and widows. They want to stand up and take to the streets. Who knows, they may get their chance....

[Gloria]

4. My 82 year old mother thinks it's WONDERFUL!! She is

glad to get her SS check, but then denies Bush is going to screw it up and MOCKS Democrats for being concerned....

Nice.

[PlanetBev]

6. My dad calls Hannity a "Fascist Fucker"

Tell me how you really feel, Dad...

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

79. that's extremely funny, your father has a real way with words. Your

father sounds pretty cool

[mikh]

103. ...is that an example

...of subtle irony there Barb?

[Disturbed]

12. The event of Fascism.

Of course the present Fascists are not going to wear armbands and goose step in the streets. Fascism in moderen Amerika is more subtle than that. Having re-read some history of the prior year before WW1 it is real obvious to me that Fascism can happen rather quickly and in the guise of Freedom and democracy.

[mikh]

17. ...for Fascism

...read intolerant totalitarianism.
What does it matter - left or right - the result is the same...

[barb162]

89. And now it is happening through TV mostly. I am fascinated how many

TV shows on cable are promoting this sick stuff. Even mainstream network "news" doesn't really do a red alert on the Patriot Act and other scary laws doing away with civil liberties. You would think the Patriot Act is this mundane thing and it clearly is not.

[Sara Beverley]

22. Maybe we should organize a "Senior March on Washington"

Or the "Million octaterian march." Walkers, wheel chairs and all. It would at least get more coverage than the peace demonstrators. The media would not dare to ignore the silver brigade.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

48. That's what I was thinking: WWII Vets For Truth! Amazing story to tell!!

I think this would be an amazing media hook.

It was a mistake to go back to the most divisive war in memory (Vietnam) for heroes to run against the neo-con fascists.

What if we got 'The Greatest Generation' of 80ish vets who fought against fascism in WWII to decry fascism in Washington DC now?


The idea that 'America' saved the world from Hitler is THE political capital that has purchased many atrocities as US foreign policy.

Imagine the ability to both out modern fascism and US corporate support (especially Prescott Bush's) of Hitler and Mussolini??

I think this is a really important tactic to consider in time for the Jan. 20th coronation of the Chimperor.

[UTDemocrat8204]

70. Sadly it probably

wouldn't work very far. They'd just do like they did with John Kerry and come up with a John O'Neil of their own.

[barb162]

80. this is exactly how every single person I know in that age group

thinks. They vote for Bush but they love their SS (courtesy of the Democrats) checks coming in the mail. All of these people don't seem to get the connection

[gristy]

5. My dad is 80 and he is very concerned

[n2mark]

7. I'm retired and am also concerned

[GetTheRightVote]

8. My mother is real concern and wishes * would disappear, not good to elders

[DebJ]

9. Oh noo....I missed the show!! Are there any links on the net?

[PlanetBev]

14. Deb, go to PBS.org

You should be able to get the transcript

[BrklynLiberal]

15. It usually repeats on Sunday night.

[Skink]

10. That's becuase...

I would guess....., WWII vets would back this up. Fascism was a disease that struck mid century everywhere and it didn't stop in Europe.
For a minority of folks, and they are still the minority (Neocons), Fascism is still alive and well and they have enlisted the faithful to make it a Fascist Theocracy. I must credit Zappa from a thread earlier today for putting it in perspective.

[TexasChick]

11. Not to veterans or veteran moms and dads, but just to anybody who will

listen. But, do they listen? No. They tell me that it will never happen here. It's almost supernatural how Chimp and his cabal have cleverly named these fascists tactics to sound so patriotic (hence the Patriot Act I & II). The complacency and the acceptance of these fascists tactics on the rise in this country or just astounding. I guess these people haven't learned from history.

[UTDemocrat8204]

71. The same things are

going on here now that happened then. I've seen a few documentaries on Hitler and that time and all that happened and it's amazing (but not really) the parallels. On one they showed these two people who were up in their years and lived in that time and they said they had NO clue what happened with the concentration camps. Hitler controlled the media and kept them from ever knowing.

[barb162]

81. I think most people are apolitical and therefore don't pay much

attention to things like the Patriot Act. They just sort of assume things will keep rolling along the way they have been forever. They do not see the danger of shrub and don't want to see it.

[Tace]

13. My Parents -- Early 70's -- Drank The KoolAid Long Ago

They spit anger at me every chance they get.

[mikh]

16. ...I sure have...

...and they are very fearful of the social engineering that is rampant in my country. Similarly, they fear and many despise mass immigration that permits ghettoisation and fosters tribalism. These fears (and others) are commonplace here (and elsewhere, ie Holland) and may resonate quite powerfully in the USA also.

[China_cat]

18. My mother-in-law died Thursday

Scared for us living here after she had lived as a teenager through the Nazi occupation of her country. She said she saw the same things happening here. She wanted to see us safe.

She didn't get to.

[Disturbed]

21. The People's History of the United States.

Chapter 14 details out how Fascism grew in the U.S. and how Govt. and Corps. alligned to force the people of the U.S. to accept a Military Draft and fight in WW1. It is a rather short chapter and parts could be copied to present to those that think Fascism cannot happen in Amerika. Amerika is getting closer to a Fascist Police State every day.

[SillyGoose]

92. I'm so sorry. My condolences to you and your family.

We will be safe from that brutality and oppression, make no mistake about it. It will not happen here. We will see to it.

:grouphug:

Hugs to you and your family.

[babylonsister]

109. China Cat, I'm sorry for your loss,

and sorry your MIL didn't get to see us all be/feel safer.

[Just Me]

19. I've been having conversations with their survivors.

Those survivors are angry at the plight, wanting to just live but compelled to fight, and telling their adult children to hold the torch,...but those adult children have been thrown into an impasse they were never prepared for or could have possibly expected.

:shrug:

Who among us prepared for the fact that, the "American Dream" was a myth that was never intended by its fabricators to become a reality?

:shrug:

Who among us mistakenly lived by proxy rather than by choice?

:shrug:

We all have and do,...to some degree.

We need eachother.

[scarletwoman]

20. My 78 year old WWII vet father is furious!

I worry about his physical health, he gets so worked up about the state of our country today. He is deeply saddened as well, he says he NEVER thought he'd see such a degeneration of all he grew up believing in.

It hurts me beyond words to know that all he thought he was defending in his youth appears to be lost. All I can do is promise him that I will do everything I can to fight against the fascist wave overtaking our own dear country.

It brings me to tears -- he is proud of me, old hippie that I am -- that I have promised him to stay involved, that he knows that he is having to pass on this battle to his child -- a battle that he never expected to see happen in his own country, in his lifetime.

sw

[mikh]

28. ...as an old hippie...

...what did your Dad really think of your ideals in the 60's and 70's? Did he agree with the self-indulgent attitude of those times?
I ask this because I think it is our generation, ie the boomers, that have largely destroyed and betrayed our parent's ideals.
I am alarmed and saddened too...and have the greatest respect for my parent's generation. They sacrificed through a depression and went to war and died and gave and sacrificed again. Their idealism, values and Norman Rockwell patriotism is belittled today in many quarters - but they were a truly great generation.
I venerate them.
Read the comments from a spokesperson for the "progressive" left re that era....

"The Progressive (magazine) in the late 1930s tended to be isolationist. There was a tension between those who wanted to confront the Nazis and those who were more pacifist-oriented.
Sincerely,
Matthew Rothschild, Editor, The Progressive"

I imagine that there are a great number of old people internationally that despise our generation - and not just the demonised Dubya - for our hand wringing moral relativism...and our betrayal...

[annabanana]

35. YOU may have been self indulgent...

Please don't lump all the idealists and humanitarians I have known as "old hippies" in with you.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[scarletwoman]

40. Not sure how to answer your question...

I never had any kind of falling out with my parents, even during my "drugs, sex, and rock 'n' roll" days. I concealed alot from them about what I was into, but I maintained a cordial, ableit physically distant relationship (I moved from Minnesota to California).

My parents were ALWAYS liberals, free-thinking was completely encouraged while I was growing up. I'm sure they would have been much more shocked and disappointed if I had become an uptight republican.

It was also from my parents that I inherented a healthy skepticism of the "official" pronouncements of our government. I will always remember sitting with my dad watching the news in 1963 when Jack Ruby's shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald was broadcast live. My dad said, "Well, now we'll NEVER find out who really killed Kennedy."

So, honestly, I can't agree with you that "our" generation betrayed our parents' ideals -- at least not in my case. My parents were against the Vietnam war, they supported me in protesting it. Theirs was never a "Norman Rockwell patriotism", they were working class realists who were quite aware that the interests of the Ruling Class generally ran counter to their own.

I feel no shame for my part in the 60's -- on the contrary, I am enormously proud to have taken part in such a mass undertaking of changing societal consciousness.

sw

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[scarletwoman]

67. Set in my ways?

LOL! Yeah, sure.

I'm set in my ways of believing in power to the people. I'm set in my ways of believing in liberty and justice for all. I'm set in my ways of believing that my private life is none of the government's business. I'm set in my ways of believing that government should serve the public good over the interests of the privileged few.

Do you see a problem with that?

sw

[UTDemocrat8204]

72. It's sad that

all those people who were involved in our rights are getting slaped in the face now with everything going on. Like with Florida 2000 of the blacks getting turned away from voting and/or their votes not counting just because of their color. Same thing with women rights with abortion.

[pattyloutwo]

23. my parents too

I'm proud of them for staying informed. They're close to 80. They're so angry the country is being hijacked by the corporations. They participated in a large anti-war demonstration with me before the war, and also asked me to take them to see Fahrenheit 911. I think they're proud that I'm informed/fed up/somewhat active, but worried about all the sheep that buy into what we're told to believe. I'm worried about that too.

[UTDemocrat8204]

74. My grandparents

are life-long republicans but before the election my grandmother told my Mom "we have to get Bush out" and they both voted for Kerry. :) I was a lil surprised I do admit.

[wellstone dem]

24. My 86 yar old Dad too.

He tells me is so worried about the lives his grandchildren will lead. Something he never said about his children. He is so worried about the future.

[GreatAuntK]

26. I've never broken thru to Dad on *.

The topic is forbidden, he's 81, a frail WWII veteran. And there are others, who lower their eyes, and the most I can get is "I don't like to talk about politics." The war and *'s social agenda has been very devisive in our family.

As I've said before, if the Iraq war is politics, it should be obvious that something is not right.

Got some serious fundamental Christians in the family, and abortion is the only issue.

But I have a big family, and I'm not alone in my views, three sisters, and others.

[rwenos]

25. My 83 Year Old Dad is Pissed Too

He's an old guard FDR liberal, unreconstructed New Dealer. And 10 years ago I thought he was crazy for advocating single payer medical coverage -- i.e., Medicare for everybody.

Now my wife takes a drug that costs $1,100 per month, and she's uninsurable in the private market. (Secondary progressive Multiple Sclerosis.)

My Dad's right, single-payer is our only hope. But The Chimp and his fascist corporate thugs will never let it in.

My prediction: Bush will pardon Kenny Lay, Jeff Skilling and the whole Enron crowd on his last day in office. If he really DOES leave office on January 19, 2009.

[shockra]

101. MS Drugs

When I read that your wife is paying so much for her MS drug I had to let you know about this option in case you hadn't heard of it. There's been a lot of success with Low Dose Naltrexone, which isn't well known or often used because it's very cheap, and wouldn't be profitable to the drug companies. Naltrexone is an opiate blocker commonly used for drug or alcohol addiction, but used in very tiny doses, it works for autoimmune diseases.

http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org

The basis for its working is medically sound. It works by blocking the production of endorphins at night -- when your body makes the most -- between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. which tricks your body into thinking it isn't making enough thus boosting your production during the day when you need it. Autoimmune diseases are thought to be, in one sense at least, due to a deficiency of endorphins.

Depending on the person it can take months, weeks, or mere days to start to show effects. Primarily what it does it stop the progression of the disease in MS. Whether or not you will have improvement of your symptoms is not guaranteed, but an awful lot of people seem to show at least some improvement. A few don't seem to be affected at all but at least the majority do.

Last spring I found out I had fibromyalgia, and possibly MS, so I tried it for a couple of weeks to test what effects it had on me. I did notice some tingling in my wrists, like the nerves which had been bothered by carpal tunnel syndrome were starting to come to life. Kind of a feeling like after your foot has been asleep and is starting to wake up. And the best most promising thing to me was I felt I was starting to get more control of the movement of my right eye, which has felt "stuck" with no peripheral vision for over twenty years. So I started to get an inkling of what it could do for me.

I'm only taking guaifenesin for fibromyalgia right now, since that's the only illness I know for sure I have (and guai works great for that). But I plan on trying the LDN again once my migraines have improved enough. The LDN is supposed to have no side effects, since it is such a miniscule dose, but some people have headaches, or sometimes nausea for the first week or two. And the LDN seemed to make my migraines kick in.

I've read that people with autoimmune disorders often have more than one. Fibro often accompanies MS which makes them hard to diagnose, or to tell for some time if you have just one or both.

The LDN yahoo group (referenced at the top of the LDN homepage) is extremely active, and I've seen a lot of success stories over there. Also they seem to answer just about every question under the sun. Including where to get LDN if your doctor won't prescribe it. A lot of doctors are reluctant, or haven't heard of it. But then if that's the case, the doctor at the LDN website believes so fervently in this treatment that he will talk to anyone's doctor anywhere in the world, apparently, on the phone, if you ask him to.

A month's supply of LDN from a pharmacy is about $40. If you buy your pills from a foreign pharmacy (unbroken into dosages) it can cost about $100 for a years supply.

[indigonation]

27. My dad 77, Korean war vet concerned...

Grudgingly voted for Kerry (he said lesser of two evils), but hates the Shrub and is concerned about the corruption in this administration and erosion of civil rights. Says that he would consider moving to Canada if the Governator ever won the high seat.
Parents still married over 50 years, Mom really concerned about civil rights, she's a true blue Dem, but she also hates Michael Moore. She also didn't see F911.

[Sparkly]

29. I had a friend who was in his 80's in the 1980's...

He was a wonderful, worldly, brilliant man who'd worked as a musician for a German dance company, among many others, in the 30's and 40's. He was a little flighty and changed subjects unexpectedly, but more than once he told me, "This country could turn fascist overnight." He snapped his fingers and repeated, "OverNIGHT."

At the time I didn't pay much attention and tried to steer the topic back to whatever we'd been talking about before. But it stuck with me that he considered this very important, and that he was trying to explain why the potential was here for the country to "turn facist overnight. Overnight."

[mikh]

30. ..yes...

....what a nightmare. Sweaty palm stuff.
But how would you know?
What if it simply adhered to its constitution?

[Sparkly]

31. I think he was trying to tell me how easy it'd be to subvert it

How easily the public could be manipulated.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

51. Valyooz... SLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!.................

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

55. muito bem

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

60. danke

must tithe ducats or perish

[Pachamama]

95. Wow! That's the best image of Bush yet Swamp Rodent! Hey, where did the

fascist go?

:eyes:

[Nordic]

32. My 70 year old veteran Dad is a RW neo-con koolaid drinker

unfortunately.

We can't even talk politics anymore, which is sad, we used to.

He used to have his own ideas about things and they were very interesting, now he just repeats propaganda.

You'd think a veteran officer who was in top secret weapons development his whole career would know propaganda when he saw it.

[mikh]

34. ...maybe he does...

...What does he think of Michael Moore?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nordic]

37. he despises Michael Moore and won't even look at anything

that I e-mail him that has anything to do with Michael Moore.

Oddly enough he said he respected Howard Dean. I think because he's a doctor and a straight shooter. Either that or Faux News told him to.

[UTDemocrat8204]

77. I think the thing with

propoganda is it gets repeated so much. On all the Fox shows they all talk about it and if you watch every show on there from Hannity to Limbaugh and if you hear something enough times it gets stuck in your brain and you think it's really true. Great mind control. That's why the only news I get is online and CSPAN and Daily show (but I watch that more-so for entertainment but you get the news as well).

[Digit]

38. My mother would be livid

She grew up in Nazi Germany and although she is dead now, if alive, she would be very active in fighting this.
Damn, I miss her.

[riverwalker]

39. my Dad is 86 and former POW

he was captured by the Germans right before the Battle of the Bulge. Spent 10 months in a Nazi POW camp. He hates dumya and hates this war. When the Abu Ghraib stuff came out, I asked him if he ever saw things like that as a POW. He emphatically said no, that they were treated as soldiers. Cold, and hungry, but never tortured or humiliated. They were allowed to play music on Fridays, always Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Jordan. There used to be a sort of code among warriors that we don't have any more (like stuffing the Iraqi general into a sleeping bag and beating him to death.) He was angry about Abu Ghraib, and in a way embarrassed that our guys behaved worse than Nazis.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

53. Islamofascists?

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

58. "mikh Truth Hates Delay?"

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

61. Ahh, a watcher.

:D

[Pachamama]

96. Strange...I think I know this "Mikh" character...his style of writing, his

choice in words, identical to the style and vocabulary of a psycho-fascist I know - "Rocco" from Michigan....

Tell tale signs of the fascists - like to use words like "islamofascists", "moral relativism", et al...And ofcourse, they go off on Michael Moore like he's the anti-christ...

:eyes:

[mikh]

104. Rocco lives!

But no Sir, I am merely me from Mt Maunganui.

Please excuse my choice of words. They seem apt that's all. And no, I am not a fascist, although it concerns me that such McCarthyite stereotyping is so prevalent here. And please don't worry about the anti-Christ. (He surfaced as Mikhail Gorbachev in the 90's didn't he? So we have him taped).

I just have my likes/dislikes as you do.

[RandomKoolzip]

105. McCartyite stereotyping with no corporate/state power behind it

is but a harmless paper tiger. McCarthyite stereotyping with all three branches of the govt and the media behind it is a very real, very harmful threat. Especially when that same McCarthyite stereotyping is backed up with pretentions to divinely received power and the ideological infrastructure of PNAC and a hundred billionaire-funded think tanks and their attendant influence.

Do you really think Michael Moore is a bigger threat to democracy than Richard Scaife? Interesting.

[mikh]

110. ...sorry

...never heard of Mr Scaife.

[RandomKoolzip]

111. Yeah? Then taking you seriously is going to be hard.

Funny how the right ALWAYS thinks that they're the underdogs.

[Swamp Rat]

112. LOL!

Spot on mate! :D

[Royal Observer]

41. Just a question

Why does your Dad watch Hannity and O'Reilly?

[Strelnikov_]

42. Remind Him That 49% (At Least) Oppose The Policies of the Iron Heel

And as soon as things get a little tense, they will lose another 20% support in my estimation.

Gonna have to be some pretty big camps if they are going to enslave 70% of the population.

The GOP won the election by successfully diverting any concerns people may have with GOP policies to 9/11 and the ‘war on terra’. Although many on this board see the coming storm, a critical mass of people buy into the ‘turning the corner’ mantra. Also, a vast majority of the country has no investment (relatives) in the branches of the military currently in harms way.

Let’s face it, considering the compliant (and possibly complicit media) and unprecedented use (for a democracy) of physiological warfare, the fact that they can only manage to get 50% of the 50% who vote underscores their weak position.

As for our democracy, I still have hope. Most people are still ‘asleep’ politically and are unaware of the massive structural problems the GOP has burdened the nation with. When the collapse comes, the masses will demand recourse at the ballot box. My fear at this stage is not the GOP, who will be destroyed, but what could replace the GOP if the Liberals/Progressives do not step up with marketable ideas and candidates.

Therefore, no matter the result, we must bugger on, and continue fighting for the day the GOP Corporatists (the Iron Heel), whose goal is to reduce the vast majority to low wage serfs, are thrown out of office.

Also, thank him for me for the country he has built. This is just a setback. There is always a sequel, and the good guys will persevere.

[mikh]

52. ...too right mate...

...and the truth will prevail. It always has.
What this might mean though is the turning point for the extreme left.
Not just in the USA...
And not sure what's meant by the phrase "bugger on." Know abour "bugger off" but the exhortation to bugger on has awful undertones...

[SillyGoose]

44. Yep. My 76 y/o Dad is a WW2 vet (Navy SeaBee)

and he says the same thing as your Dad. He has forbidden his grandchildren and great grandchildren from joining the service. He is trying very hard to educate his family about what is happening to our country - this summer he packed us all up and took us to see Fahrenheit 911 and he is forever arguing with my Freeper sister and 2 uncles during our family dinners (I've taken to videotaping him when he's on a roll so the little ones in our family will benefit from his wisdom when they are older).

I'm so thankful to have had his guidance in political matters during my formative years. Not sure what is up with my Freeper sister but, thanks to my Dad, she may be rolling over because she admitted at Thanksgiving to being a "social liberal" who won't align herself with the DNC because she is rabidly pro-life, she is finally admitting the Iraq war was a mistake, and she now thinks Bill Clinton was a great president.

Dad rocks when it comes to this stuff :hug:

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nordic]

66. you can't help yourself, can you?

You're the least competent disrupter I think I've ever seen

[UTDemocrat8204]

78. Great for your dad!

Has he tried other movies instead of just Moore? There are a lot of movies out there like with Greg Palast. He has a real good movie out you can buy and I've seen it on Best Buy's site so you can probably find it there. Suprnova.org also has some documentary films on there you can download and burn. Even if you can't watch it on a DVD player you can see it on your computer. For more info on Palast's film you can see his site at gregpalast.com I believe it's called the "Bush Family Fortune."
Don't forget "Outfoxed" for all your Fox loving friends/family.

[SillyGoose]

83. Thanks for the info...I will check them out. He will love them.

My Dad is amazing. If you ask him a question he remembers like its yesterday and can give a complete historical narrative. His specialty is the Israeli/Palestinian issue - he blows my mind with his knowledge.
Thanks again - he will love those films.

[7th Generation VTer]

46. My Dad's 83 as well

Every morning he gets the paper and gets his Sharpie, and edits the word "President" out of all articles about Bush, muttering "Damn fools -- he never was the president and he never will be! How long before they realize that?!" He also defaces all photos of Bush he can find.

He volunteered for duty in WWII; he went through North Afirca and Italy and was at the obliteration of Monte Cassino. He learned to hate war, and so he hated the Vietnam war, and sympathized with those who avoided being drafted.

My Mom, who is 77, spends a lot of her time swearing at the TV, saying words I never expected to hear from her, and sometimes gets so mad she cries. She even had a dream recently that the Nazis had taken over -- American Nazis. Brownshirts, book burnings, etc etc.

My poor, poor parents... :(

[barb162]

76. my father was a WW2 vet and in for 4.5 years and he hated

Roosevelt because he promised not to enter the war. Well when my father was under Patton and all that horrible crap for so long, he never ever voted Democrat again. My mom too. I am the only Democrat in my family.

[SillyGoose]

90. Your dad is an absolute a pisser! God bless Him!

and your Mom, too. Hugs to you and your folks.

:grouphug:

My Mom has Alzheimer's but she still manages to throw her epitaphs at Bush when she she can. She really dislikes him.

[barb162]

63. Actually an 85 yr. old vet I know sees nothing wrong with Bush

because the democrats are "pro black" and for welfare. He also sees nothing wrong with the Iraq war and killing all Mideasterners because of 9/11.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nordic]

69. enjoy your stay

I think it's going to be pretty brief.

[Nordic]

73. ah, how delightful! Thanks, mods!

It's lovely watching this creep's messages vanish one by one.

[barb162]

75. may I ask what the deleted person wrote? I missed it. I hope it

wasn't directed at me as I was telling a literal and true account of how this vet sees things. I argue with this vet all the time about Bush and that damned war.

[Nordic]

84. it was just a really incompetent disruptor

Who wasn't getting the response he desired, so he kept raising the level of his disruption until it became silly-obvious.

It would have been funny if he wasn't so stupid.

[barb162]

85. thank you Nordic!!!!

[Swamp Rat]

99. That was too easy... thanks for cleanin' up.

Thought he could pose as a Kiwi... dumb dumb dumb. :D

[mikh]

102. Actually mate...

...my turangawaewae (lit. place to stand) is Mt Maunganui, Aotearoa/New Zealand. Unseasonally cool at the moment. Recent hailstorm in fact.

Alwys though, a very pleasant and hospitable place , playing host at the moment to a thousand or so of your countrymen (very pleasant people they are too,) on a visiting cruise liner. Some of them may even have (gasp!) voted THE WRONG WAY!! But we don't mind.

Hey, Swampie and Nordic (and others) this is a forum isn't it? A place to exchange and debate ideas. The kitchen's not too hot for me - in fact it's very comfortable.

[Swamp Rat]

108. Touché

You are correct. This is a place to debate and exchange ideas, and if one survives the crucible of newbie status while supporting a neoliberal ideology, for example, congratulations is in order.

Hosting American tourists, despite the possibility they may be supporters of our neo-fascist regime, demonstrates a commendable hospitality. Kudos to the Kiwis!

Welcome to a very hot kitchen, one that reaches sometimes 5000 degrees Kelvin. Why so hot? Folks here are very passionate about saving "democracy" from the imperialists, the very same group that may wish to turn New Zealand into another Walt Disney park.

[Swamp Rat]

98. Doesn't matter...

... though, I had some fun with the numbskull before went out to celebrate the end of a successful semester in school. :)

:beer:

[buddysmellgood]

64. My Dad is 84. He has always voted republican. We don't talk politics much,

but over the years he has been doing more and more socially responsible things. For example, he is a leader in the local Alliance for the Mentally Ill. Recently we talked about the election. I told him about Kerry's plan to cover every child with healthcare. We talked about other problem in the country. He is deeply disturbed with the direction of our country. I could see it in his eyes.

[UTDemocrat8204]

68. I definietly agree

and it is scary. I posted about that on another board and a republican on there just said Moyers was biased. :eyes:

[Liberty Belle]

82. My dad lost his grandparents, aunts & uncles in concentration camps.

He is 75, and horrified at what is happening in America. This is what his parents came here to escape. Dad's a vet who served stateside during the Korean war. Now he's worried his grandchildren will be sent to Iraq.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Not only your 83 year old dad

today I talked to a friend of my sister's, and I mentioned where these politics are going... Germany, 1930s, have seen this movie.. the look of desbilief in her face told the story.

Cannot be that bad

Have you read Patriot II

No...

I have... there are elements of the Enabling Act in there.... she decided, wisely, to move to other subjects

The ignorance, willful ignorance, is so amazing to me...

[Bouncy Ball]

87. Before he died in late 2002

my grandfather, a WWII vet who USED to vote republican way back in the day, but started voting Dem after Nixon, said just before he died that bush is a "total moron" and the republican party was trying to "screw America." That was pretty shocking stuff coming from him.

He is gone now, though. I'm almost glad he isn't seeing this.

[Lenape85]

91. Just before my grandfather (life-long republican) died in 2003

He was on his deathbed expressing dismay with the war.

God bless him

[DavidFL]

88. Yes...

my grandfather served in the Marines in WWII and then again in Korea. When the draft of Patriot II was leaked in 2002, he was mad as hell to say the least. He has said that Bush and Cheney are fascists; said there was not much difference between them and Hitler and Mousilini. When he talks about Ashcroft, he calls him Himmler instead of by his real name. He's mad at what they've turned this country into because this was everything he and others of his generation fought against in WWII. He has also said network news and major papers are propaganda and no one can trust either of them to tell the truth.

[yardwork]

93. Oh yes. My mother and many of her friends who were children during WWII

are very concerned and talking openly about the rise of fascism in the U.S.

My freeper mother-in-law, sadly, can't see anything wrong at all.

[aquart]

97. Hoover shot the vets.

My 83 year old mama says. She's been thru the Palmer raids, the Depression, and McCarthy, and she believes we'll weather these bastards, too.

[neebob]

106. My parents both drank the Kool-aid

They were both born in 1936, to fathers who mysteriously avoided service in World Wars I and II. But don't ask why or how they did it! My brother would really like to know. I just figure at least one of my grandpas - the one I knew, who didn't believe in God - engaged in some healthy questioning.

Somehow, both my parents became Mormon, Limbaugh-loving, Clinton-hating, Fox-watching, flaming wingnuts. I never wanted to talk to my dad, who died in 2003. I can only talk to my mom about fluffy dumb stuff. In addition to her work with the Parents' Television Council, she's been busy rewriting the history of everything and refuses to admit that her parents were Democrats and that she herself used to be one.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

107. My dad

is a WW II vet and a Republican and we had not talked politics for years. He surprised me by commenting to me that he was completely against the Iraq war and did not like Bush's foreign policy. He said he hated the French-bashing too. I gathered he thinks they are idiots.

I heard on Air America the other day that the military is sending a 70-year old dental surgeon over to Iraq. I joked to my husband that they will be calling my dad over soon too. At 77, he is one of the younger vets of WW II.

[aikido15]

113. Fascism is alive and well...

In Bushworld.

[Lisa]

114. my folks are in their late 70s -- experienced WWII internment

Being of Japanese ancestry, my entire family was uprooted. It took them decades to get their lives back on track. (A whole generation of talented people had to move across country and give up their dreams of college, etc. -- they worked themselves into the ground so my cousins and I could get our degrees.)

Anyway, I asked my folks what it was like, living under constant suspicion with people accusing you of being in league with the enemy even though you were born here. They used to tell me "you can't imagine" -- until a couple of years ago. Now they show me newspaper headlines accusing North American Arabs and Muslims of being terrorists. Dad says "it was JUST LIKE THIS -- the authorities didn't believe we were innocent, and any civil liberties activists who sided with us were ostracized". They are very worried about local Muslim children being shunned or even attacked by goons. (A Hindu temple near our house was burned, in the weeks after 9/11, because somebody saw people with turbans and just decided ...

I know my mom sometimes cries, because she had hoped that this wouldn't happen again to any other group -- in fact it was a condition of the formal government compensation/apology. But thanks to all the new anti-terror legislation, people are again being locked away. Not an entire community this time, but seeing even a single case of unlawful detention is very painful for my parents -- let alone the accusations of torture. They really believed that the country had changed since the 1940s. They worked so hard to earn people's trust (dad was a public school teacher, mom was a public health nurse), make the country a better place, and raise me to be a good citizen.

Because of their experiences, they are afraid to go out and protest in public. I was born after the internment and am rasher, so I do go out on marches -- but I don't tell them because they worry.