Guilt Disorders Among Returning Soldiers

[SoDesuKa]

Much guilt attributed to combat-related PTSD is not the result of any disorder. Soldiers feel guilty when they do wrong things, as for example, when they kill children.

Because he is a madman, Bush does not have a sense of guilt. When our returning soldiers, who are usually normal people, seek help with their problems with guilt, they are often told their feelings are inappropriate. In some extreme cases these unfortunate soldiers are driven to suicide.

Clearly, pathologizing guilt is not the answer. Yes, some guilt is pathological, but much of what our soldiers are bringing home from Iraq is a normal, natural and appropriate response to their own wrongdoing.

[GetTheRightVote]

1. Yes, it is sad to see again after vietnam, how many times must if happen?

[SoDesuKa]

3. Bush is a Madman

I think the Left has been far too polite to George Bush, who is missing whatever gene it is that controls guilt. He has shown no remorse for dragging us into an unnecessary war against a people who were not a threat to us. Absence of remorse characterizes serial murderers like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy.

What does it say about us as a people when our commander-in-chief is a madman, but Americans support him anyhow? We've become like Germany in the 1930's. The Left should tell it like it is: this guy is nuts.

[heretheycome]

15. I was thinking the same

sad so sad

[Nordic]

2. I'm not sure what your point is

:shrug:

[SoDesuKa]

4. That's Understandable

It's understandable that you might miss the point of my post. We certainly don't agree on the limits of what is political. You also missed the point of another post when a DU'er announced a decision to rebel against arbitrary gender assignment. In fact you told this person to share that story in the Lounge, fergoshsakes. I was amazed.

[Nordic]

7. yeah, that post just vanished

Weird, isn't it, how the mods got rid of that thread.

I guess they're total homophobes like me, too. :eyes:

Anyway, getting back to my original question for you, which was that I didn't understand the point of your post .......

Why are you being such a prick?

After all, YOU started the thread, YOU decided to put some thought into actually starting a thread to inspire others to response.

I didn't see your point, which was an invitation to elaborate, but no, you decided to attack me about another thread altogether.

You give the left a bad name.

[SoDesuKa]

8. By Your Own Statement

I took you at your word. When you said you didn't see the point of my post, I noted that your response fit into the pattern of several other responses you've posted. We apparently do not agree on the meaning of the word political.

There was no deeper, hidden meaning to my original post. I said that not all guilt experienced by returning soldiers is the result of PTSD. Some of it is a normal, natural, appropriate response to personal wrongdoing.

That simple statement shouldn't have thrown you. There's nothing to add. If you didn't see the point, well then you didn't see the point. As I said, there was no deeper meaning.

[Nordic]

9. uh .... okay ......

Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm really interested in PTSD and the returning soldiers.

I honestly didn't get your point, but maybe it's me and I sure didn't mean to offend you in any way.

[SoDesuKa]

10. No Deeper Meaning

The New York Times recently had an article on the "flood" of soldiers returning home from Iraq with PTSD-related feelings of guilt. These soldiers, says the Times, will need psychiatric help for the next 35 years. The article prompted a number of letters from doctors, all of them commenting on the mental health problems of returning GI's.

Nobody addressed what I consider an obvious point - feelings of guilt aren't necessarily symptoms of a disorder. Sometimes they are an appropriate response to an awareness of personal wrongdoing. The war in Iraq is wrong. The guilty feelings of GI's returning home from Iraq come from actual guilt.

This is not a medical problem. It's a political problem. These guys feel guilty because they are guilty.

[bigtree]

12. we share in their guilt

all of us, whether we will accept it or not. The soldiers serve to defend our country and are being used to defend corporatism, imperialism, and greed. We failed to unseat Bush and we bear some responsibility for his continuance in office. We will bear some of the responsibility for the actions of these soldiers who serve abroad, whether we exercise it or not. (my opinion of course)

[SoDesuKa]

14. Democrats and Guilt

Democrats share a lot more guilt than they admit. After all, Kerry supported the war. There were a number of antiwar candidates to choose from, but Democrats chose Kerry. Kerry could have made the election a referendum on the war but he chose not to. Democrats did not force the issue and must now accept blame along with Bush.

[puddycat]

5. Bush is a sociopath. He has no conscience.

Sociopaths are not "mad" in the crazy sense of the word. They are often quite successful--brilliant CEO's of corporations, etc.--unlike Ted Bundy, a classic sociopath who chose murder as his career. Sociopaths fit in perfectly with the fascist, uber-capitalism of our current culture.

[UTDemocrat8204]

6. But of course

he's a "good Christian man" and we're "freeing" them. :eyes:

[tx_dem41]

11. So, do you believe that everyone in the military right now...

should feel guilt?

[SoDesuKa]

13. Reductio Ad Absurdum

I said nothing that implied that everyone in the military should feel guilty now. But it is not surprising that soldiers coming back from Iraq feel guilty. Those feelings are not inappropriate - they are guilty.

I'd be more worried if they didn't feel guilty. Then they'd be as crazy as Bush.

[murray hill farm]

16. I know what u are saying!

i am a retired private practice psychologist...and i can tell u this for certain..when a person kills another..for whatever reason..in war...in self defense...by accident...does not matter..they have killed also a part of themselves..and there is no recovery from it. Over time, one can feel the guilt of it less...denial or whatever rationale it takes to go on can reduce the sharpness of it so that one can continue to live and go on...but once you kill another..you have that new definition of self as one who has killed another human being..and that does not...in this lifetime...ever change.

[tx_dem41]

18. And what of all the soldiers (the vast majority) that do not kill...

...?

[tx_dem41]

17. Well...first it was a question not an assertion...

so your charge of Reductio Ad Absurdum is ...aburd.

And, I think you basically answered my question in the affirmative by not saying "some soldiers".

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. According to a mental health worker

that I know, almost everyone that they are seeing who served in Iraq has PTSD.

[Ms_Mary]

21. No big suprise there.

[murray hill farm]

22. PTSD is caused by

not being able to process the trauma when it occurs..which happens in battle and in war in general..u just keep on fighting..keep on moving in order to survive..and then there is another and another traumatic event. The reaction comes later...it occurs post traumatic..it comes when u are home and safe enough to feel it..and your mind relives it over and over...hoping for resolution.

[Ms_Mary]

20. Guilt aside, we will be seeing the pyschological impact of this war for a

very long time. A close friend of mine has a son serving a second, extended term in Iraq. He is over his division(forgive me, I forget the right word). According to an email a couple of months ago, morale is really low and the soldiers are not happy. The general feeling among his men is that being in the war is giving their country a bad name. They were told one thing before they were sent to war, only to find out it wasn't true. Every time they feel like they've done something positive, something esle horrible happens. They are under fire daily. My friend's son is under so much stress, he's lost enough weight to make him look skeletal.