Was Santa one of the Wisemen that brought gifts to the baby Jesus?

[GingerSnaps]

Have Americans lost the true meaning of Christmas because of the media and the mass commercialization of the holiday?

I realized that I had lost it a few years back when I found the need to take a part time retail job at an upscale department store so that I could get the feeling of Christmas back into my life. What I witnessed was greed and to most shoppers Christmas was about buying gifts and how much someone was going to spend on them. Most people didn't find a need to even put a thought into the gift that they were buying for the other person. They bought the gift because of the price and the other person was giving them a gift for the same price. Comments were made about the Giftie being able to bring the gift back to the store if they didn't like it.

Maybe that is why department store lines after Christmas are so long with people returning gifts that had no thought put into it. If we all paused a second and started thinking about what the other person might like instead of grabbing anything to save time then it might make some of the true meaning of gift giving come back to us.

That brings me back to wondering about Santa and Christmas and why he was brought into the equation. Was Santa a figure that represented one of the wise-men? :shrug:

[nostamj]

1. no. santa was introduced to secularize the holiday...

beginning back with "The Night Before Christmas"...

[demwing]

4. thats not correct

Clement Moore wrote that poem in 1822--changing the existing depiction of St. Nick, but Santa's origins go back much further.

Santa is associated with St. Nicholas, who was an historic personality, but of whom little is known. He died about 350 AD.

So, the concept goes back into the first century AD, and probably finds its deepest roots in Pagan mythology that predates the time of Christ by a large margin.

[nostamj]

9. sorry, but the secular depiction of "Santa Claus"

(according to a special on Xmas traditions I saw recently) began with the poem. (in America)

of course I know about the historical, RELIGIOUS 'saint nick' but, Santa has NEVER been portrayed as a Christian (Catholic) SAINT.

[FlaGranny]

2. The real Santa Claus

"The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in Patara, a village in what is now Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships."

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38

This man was a Christian with a capital "C" and though I find his "miracles" a bit suspect, he certainly deserves the title of saint.

[GingerSnaps]

6. The right wing Christians has hijacked the Christian Religion

"Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man."

Your message shows that the republican party are not true Christians based on that paragraph alone. I believe that the true meaning of Christmas is gone.

[Astarho]

8. It was this bishop

that was later amalgamated with pagan gods, Odin in particular, to give the Santa Claus or Father Christmas of today (similar appearance, bringing of gifts, and flying horse/sleigh)

[Blue_Roses]

11. thank-you for this

I have a cousin who will not let her children celebrate Christmas with Santa Claus because she feels it's a Christian holiday and to put St. Nick in it is just plain wrong and sinful:eyes: Her kids are small and you can tell they get excited to see Santa Claus in the store, but she won't have any of that! I told her to "lighten up" and let the kids enjoy the magic and fun of Santa Claus, if nothing else, think of him as Jesus' helper giving kids toys at this special time of the year. But no, she won't have any of that, so sad, because being a kid at Christmas is fun and "magical." I say let them have fun 'cause reality sets in way early enough.

I'm saving this link. When this discussion comes again, I'll be ready:D
:thumbsup:

[GingerSnaps]

14. Have you been shopping this season?

People will knock you over for a sale....is that the Christmas spirit? :D

[TO Kid]

26. More on St. Nick

Some of the acts attributed to him explain some of our Christmas customs today. As you mentioned he was quite a philanthropist; there was at least one case where he learned a girl could not marry because her family couldn't afford the dowry, so one night he tossed a bagful of gold coins down their chimney. Some versions of the story have him putting the coins into a stocking and using it as a sling so they'd reach the top of the chimney.

[KG]

3. i've seen a hallmark figurine of santa kneeling at the manger.

:wtf:

edit to add

this is bizaar

[LSdemocrat]

5. Just like the Easter bunny at the crucifixion?

[Southpaw Bookworm]

18. rofl

Now there's an image! I can see it now, the Easter bunny hiding chocolate eggs in the empty tomb.

[demwing]

7. There's also the celebration of the Epiphany on Jan 6th

where children receive gifts from the Three Kings.

[GingerSnaps]

15. That's odd isn't it?

Ok, where is Santa's gift for the baby Jesus at...shouldn't it be in his hands? Which in turn shows that Santa is praying and the praying signifies that he is religious which is alright by me but what would Santa have to do with the bible and baby Jesus. :grr:

[demwing]

10. Very Funny!

My 5 year old saw a Nativity scene in a local park. We were feeling silly so we took a fig newton and put it in the baby Jesus' hand.

"Baby Jesus?" said my son and began laughing. "That's NOT his name!" he said.

"Well, who is he?" I asked.

"His name is Junior!" he said, and laughed again, but as if he were laughing at my mistake.

No matter how I tried, my son would not let go of the idea that baby Jesus is really named junior, nor would he explain where he got that idea.

[signmike]

12. The Trinity = Big Daddy, Junior, and The Spook

:evilgrin:

[blindpig]

23. blasphemy

the Trinity = Hank Jr, Jesus & Elvis..........Thanx Rev Billy C Wurtz.

[demwing]

33. So is Jesus Junior, or is Hank Junior?

and who's been playing Hank Williams to my 5 year old kid?

This is all some weird plot to unnerve me...

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GingerSnaps]

16. Asking a question is healthy

It's not bashing! :D

I just got some hate mail saying that I am bashing the Christian religion. It's not very Christian to hate people so where do the right wingers get off calling themselfs Christians in the first place?

[demwing]

17. Why all the Jesus bashing?

You're so snide you can't even write the word JESUS.

You know, there is a difference between being witty and being snotty. Making fun of a religious figure, especially when you get your facts all wrong (for example, please provide two "rules" of Jesus that contradict each other - and no using rules not spoken by Jesus. Those obvioulsy can't be counted as Jesus's rules, can they?) is not funny. It's just mean spirited.

[Yuugal]

19. mean spirited

Yup. That does describe how I feel about religion. All I wanted was a peaceful celebration of a holiday and Jesus freaks turned that into a war just like they do everything else. Pardon me if I'm not such a big fan. I'm not going to get lured into a long boring discussion about what god said when. To me its like talking about which Harry Potter character said what. Not interested. If you don't like my posts don't read them.

[GingerSnaps]

20. I just got a hate PM

The person bitched me out for hating Christians. I don't hate Christians what I do hate is the right wingers trying to claim Christianity as their own and rewriting it to promote their own agenda.

[demwing]

29. I agree

Jesus is just alright with me, its his so called followers that make things difficult.

[demwing]

28. Funny, I was going to say the same to you

If you don't like posts about religion, don't read them.

Further, if you don't like hearing about Jesus, then don't write about him.

Seems simple to me, but maybe thats a bit of a stretch for others.

[Yuugal]

31. Your post is still here and mine is gone so.....

all you kkkristians can stop playing victim now.

[demwing]

32. You still don't get it

Just because YOU can't see the difference between Jesus, Christians, and dangerous fanatacs doesn't mean you have the right to insult everyone.

When you behave this way, you become more and more like those people you hate.

That can't possibly feel good.

[Cleita]

21. When I lived in Chile,

Christmas was a day that everyone went to church, nothing special. However, January 6, was celebrated with gift giving to children only. This was the day the Magi or wisemen were supposed to have given gifts to the baby Jesus. Back then no one in those Spanish speaking Catholic countries had heard of Santa. Today though Santa is alive and well in all the malls throughout the Americas.

[hatrack]

22. Balthazar, Caspar & Melchior were the names I remember

A least, from the stories I read growing up.

[Bridget Burke]

30. Those names came from the Golden Legend...

www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/goldenlegend/index.htm

It's a source of Medieval legendry--beyond the Bible.

And some say that tales of Odin & the Wild Hunt were conflated with the life of Saint Nicholas--to create Santa Claus. (With lots of help from Clement Moore & Coca Cola.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. In Germany and Holland, St. Nicholas brings small presents on

December 6, which is his feast day according to the Roman Catholic calendar.

In Latin American countries, it used to be the Three Kings who brought presents on January 6, as Cleita has said.

The idea of St. Nicholas-->Santa Claus came over here with the original Dutch settlers in New York. The name Santa Claus is a mangled version of the Dutch word for St. Nicholas.

Clement Moore, who wrote The Night Before Christmas in the 1820s, was an Episcopal bishop in New York City and therefore familiar with the customs of the Dutch-American community. He popularized the figure of St. Nicholas nationwide.

Today's popular vision of Santa Claus, the fat man in the fur-trimmed red suit, was created by New York cartoonist Thomas Nast (who also created the elephant and donkey symbols for the two political parties) in the late nineteenth century.

[The White Tree]

25. Watch the History Channel on Thursday

There will be a documentary on a 7 PM called Christmas Unwrapped

or go to this link were they have some information.

<http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/holidays/christmas/listings.html>

I beleive they are going to talk about how many Christmas traditions arose from Victorian times and talk about the origins of Santa Claus.

[SmokingJacket]

27. I've always been a bit ambivalent about the Santa thing.

I'm not religious, but I grew up celebrating the secular version of Christmas and like it very much as a time to get together with family and exchange gifts, etc. But now I have kids of my own, and it's been hard for me to push the Santa myth.

We live in a socially mixed area, and my kids have always known other kids who don't celebrate Christmas or who don't have much money, and other kids who have a lot of money. It feels weird for me to say, yeah, some guy in a suit is going to bring lots of presents for you, but none for little Dimitri because he has seven sisters and his parents can barely pay the rent, and none for Isaac because he's Jewish.

I went along with Santa because That's What's Done... but my oldest son demanded I tell him the truth when he was four, so I did. Phew, what a relief that was. It's still magical for him. It was for me, and I don't ever remember believing the Claus.