Have you thought about WHY the RWing Hates 'Big Government'?

[Q]

- Republicans don't want to rid the US of 'big government' because it doesn't work...but because it represents a large portion of the Democratic voter base.

- The Democratic party traditionally represents 'civil servants', unions, the working class and the poor. It can't be a coincidence that these are the very government entities that the GOP has targeted for elimination.

- There's been a plan in the works for decades to destroy the Democratic party's voter base by 'outsourcing' civil service jobs and other federal workers who traditionally vote Democratic. 9-11 and the 'war' on terrorism has finally given them the excuse to accomplish this goal

- Karl Rove: In an interview in The New Yorker magazine on May 12, Rove said: "Bigger government strengthens the Democratic Party. It generates federal employees who will mostly vote Democratic ... conversely, smaller government helps the Republicans."

--------------------------------------------------------------

- Read this related story by Helen Thomas:

'National Security' Part Of Bush Plan To Gut Civil Services

Helen Thomas

POSTED: 4:19 p.m. EDT September 3, 2003
The Bush administration is evoking "national security" as a powerful weapon to accomplish its twin goals of privatizing thousands of federal jobs and taking a whack at government unions.

The administration's sales pitch is to raise the specter of terrorism and 9-11 -- a surefire way to scare Congress into backing plans to gut the Civil Service system.

Congress passed the Civil Service Act in 1883 to end the spoils system, which based federal employment on nepotism and cronyism.

The bad old days may be returning. I note the lack of competitive bids on some government contracts to rebuild Iraq and the appearance of favoritism in the administration's decisions to award contracts to politically influential companies.

John Gage, President of the AFL-CIO's American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), sees a trend. He predicts "a return to the spoils system for politically connected corporations and campaign contributors." (Continues: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/2453058/detail.html

[no one in particular]

1. Where did you get the idea that they want smaller government?

They don't. With Republicans controlling all three branches of government, we have the largest budget in our history.

[joeybee12]

2. Big Government Has Gotten Bigger Under Dumbo

There was an article the toher day about this--did anyone see it? Forgot where it was, so I can't link it. Anyway, they rail against big government mainly because it gets their base all hot and bothered (their base doesn't have sex, so they need to get hot and bothered somehow), and gets them to the polls. Essentially their rallying cry is just another one fo their lies. (That sort of rhymes, doesn't it?)

[Q]

5. But most Americans don't understand...

...your premise and have been 'brainwashed' into believing that 'big government' equates with social programs, federal unions and 'wasteful' and lazy federal workers.

[Brucey]

15. talk vs. actions

The Republicans use code words aimed at white idiots. It is just the message used to get elected. The size of the government increased under Republican control, but the increases are not for social services, rather for handouts to their corporate friends through military contracts and other devices.

[Q]

3. But their mantra is that they want 'smaller' government...

...though I agree with your argument.

- Read the Thomas article for a bit more insight.

- It's clear that the RWingers are attacking the services and programs that serve those who traditionally vote Democratic. They do this under the guise of wanting smaller government...but in reality it's to weaken the voter base of the opposition.

[Snellius]

7. "Big government" is a code word for black government

or brown government or govenment that gives away their god-given money to others who must be taught the Protestant ethic of how to fend for themselves.

[philosophie_en_rose]

10. They want the government.

Repubs don't seem to have a problem with big government, unless they can't control it. Thus, memos to Head Start teachers and reduced funding to curiously democratic leaning agencies. If the big government employs me and my cronies, so be it.

[ThomWV]

24. Maybe You Don't Understand

Yes the budget is bigger but that does not mean that there are more Federal employees. That big money you see in the budgets is passing right through to contracted work, it is not falling on more Federal Employees out there on the job. Strangely engough that same money that might have had generally democratic voters in jobs now goes to folks (the contractors) who are beholden to a Republican congress for their jobs, and so not only do you have the loss on the Democratic side but you have a gain on the Republican side. So the Republican aim is not to cut the budget, it is to cut the Federal workforce and increase the numbers of contractors, particularly service contractors.

Thom

[MrBenchley]

4. "Big Government" is a code word

for the Federal enforcement of civil rights laws....as in "Do you want BIG GOVERNMENT telling you who can live in your neighborhood?"

That's why for the far right wing, this ISN'T big government, no matter how big this wretched appointistration grows its bureaucracy.

[Q]

6. The Rove quote exposes their plan:

In an interview in The New Yorker magazine on May 12, Rove said: "Bigger government strengthens the Democratic Party. It generates federal employees who will mostly vote Democratic ... conversely, smaller government helps the Republicans."

[Snellius]

13. That new CBO report on the expansion of Fed Gov't

is interesting. It demonstrates how Rove has gotten around the problem of gov't unions by contracting formally gov't services out to private companies. Not only do they get to reward their campaign contributors, and gain the financial obligation of those they hire, but they are able to evade the rules, pensions, seniority levels, political partisanship that an organized workforce has posed. It also shows how it can be used as a way to claim the federal gov't has decreased when, in fact, when private contractors are included, it has surged to proportions that would make Grover Norquist weak in the knees.

[Q]

8. And it's also a 'codeword' for deregulation and 'outsourcing'...

...of normally federal jobs.

- It looks like the RWing Spinners have successfully convinced many Americans that civil servants, federal unions,accountability and regulations are the foundation of the 'big government' they want us to hate.

- Given their spending habits...it's clear that Republicans LOVE Big Government...as long as it serves THEIR interests.

[tom_paine]

9. "Big Government" is a shell of a joke of a Stalinist lie

(at least, as it is wielded by the Busheviks)

As has been pointed out, these Busheviks could care less about any of their supposed "principles" except where necesary to charade their deluded followers and hypnotized, exhausted Imperial Subjects.

"Big Government" being one.

(not, of course, that there isn't a legitimate aspect to criticizing overhuge bueracracy)

As has been pointed above, the usheviks love governent -- it is an excellent source of lott of Reverse Robin Hood in their hands. OHS and defense and prisons and phony no-bid campaign-kickback scams for denfense contracts are all good fresh loot for the Busheviks.

And of course so many projects, from Interstate Highways to Rural Electrification and the Internet, the like of which can now never be done with a morally and fiscally bankrupt system.

And yes, you are absolutely correct about your assertion that the Busheviks have directly related "Big Government" with Democratic constituencies.

However, the difference is the way in which they act completely against the interests of the nation, particularly long-term and even for themselves in the end...the Fall of the Amerikan Empire will affect even their perfumed, mad descendants in their Palaces. They way in which they have one job and one alone...to dismember the other Party and seize complete control of the nation...and nothing will stop them from their goal.

No matter who gets hurt or breathes shitty air or is out on the street.

No regard for even the infrastructure of the nation...ultimately ut's lifeblood.

Politics is one thing...but this is not American politics.

It is Roman politics.

[Q]

12. And...'outsourcing' serves the GOP (and Bush*) in two ways:

----

1. It eliminates the jobs of those who vote Democratic.

2. It gives those jobs to corporations with employees that vote Republican.

----

- And let's face it...DEREGULATION benefits corporate Republican donors and Friends of Bush*.

[Deja Q]

11. They WANT big government, but only for their frightning conditions:

In the form of:

* Fewer services for the people, outsourcing as much as possible
* Gigantic military to defend their corporate interests (you know, "freedom")
* Bigger paychecks for themselves

They don't give a fuck about the citizens.

[supernova]

14. Depends on which Big Government

Repubs are all for Big Government when it comes to the Department of War (er... defense), Homeland security, the Dept of Justice. Typically this is justified with the Republicans giving a free pass and a blank check for the new, budget-busting weapon system of the day.

All of these agencies regularly get whatever they need, and much they do not, during Repub admins to the point where Repubs are will ing to starve social services agencies to do it.

So for the Repubs to say they are "anti-government" is disingenuous. What they really are is just different big government from us.

[onecitizen]

16. Amen and pass the hat Bro'. nt

nt

[Iverson]

17. It's more basic than that.

Some of the follow-up comments have elaborated along these lines too.

Republicans are against "big government" to the extent that it limits what corporations might do. When your view of the world encodes wealth as a moral good, then a corporate pursuit of wealth is also a moral good, no matter how many people you need to swindle, injure, or kill along the way.

Republicans are completely in love with "big government" for purposes of war and the military procurement system and for purposes of domestic surveillance.

So basically you can reduce their position to one of wishing to exacerbate inequities of power as quickly as possible.

[Q]

18. Worth repeating:

"Republicans are against "big government" to the extent that it limits what corporations might do."

- But what's disturbing is how the Neocons have been able to disguise their intentions and convince enough Americans that the Democratic brand of big government needs to go.

- The Bush* administration is attacking our government from all sides...and when they're done it will serve the corporation instead of the citizen.

[July]

19. What "government entities"?

Your second point doesn't make sense to me. "The Democratic Party represents 'civil servants,' unions, the working class and the poor. It can't be a coincidence that THESE ARE THE VERY GOVERNMENT ENTITIES that the GOP has targeted for elimination."

OK, the four groups you mention seem to be GOP targets. BUT, only civil servants could be called a "government entity," I think. So, IMO, the other three groups don't really fit into the GOP anti-government passion, but rather into some other issues, I would say.

Yes, I know some unions represent government workers, but "unions" aren't really a "government entity." Those union members who work for the government are part of the civil service, right?

[Q]

20. I understand your point...

...but you're mincing words. It was early in the morning when I posted and could have left a few relevant words out of the topic description.

- It's no secret that RWingers want to see an end to other than federal unions. Their union busting tactics are well known. But the most recent attacks have been on federal unions and civil servants using the 'war on terrorism' as a rationale.

[w4rma]

21. Government has to be "big" enough to oppose big buisness

That is the biggest problem that the Republican Party has with government. They basically want their board member buddies who own big buisnesses to be able to do anything they want without oversight. When your buisness is big enough you can bully your smaller competitors when there is no oversight. They want big buisnesses to act as if they are independant countries with themselves as rullers of these anti-democratic baronies.

Robber Barons
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/Econ_Articles/carnegie/delong_moscow_paper2.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=835

[bluestateguy]

22. They don't hate big government at all

They just want a different kind of big government than the Democrats (though the number of civilian employees was smaller under Bill Clinton). Republicans want a big giant military bureaucracy, a huge CIA, an overbearing FBI, more personnell in law enforcement agencies like Border Patrol and Customs and of course these were the same people who demanded a 70 million dollar investigation of Bill Clinton's sex life and business dealings from 1978. They would also use government to police people's sex habits and violate women's uteruses.

[Q]

23. Indeed...they want a different type of 'big government'...

...one that serves the Republican party and their donors.

- But at the same time they're chipping away at government services meant to serve the majority of the American people. If they can't get rid of it...they'll replace it with privatization, deregulation and 'faith-based' services.