Progressives: Support Our Troops!

[iamjoy]

I received an e-mail from John Kerry, and another from MoveOn.org about the USOs Operation Phone Home.

I donated, and on the donation page it asks how one heard about it, and I selected "Other" from the drop down box, then filled in MoveOn.org.

Please consider making a donation, and make sure you put the source as John Kerry, MoveOn.org (or hey, even Democratic Underground if the moderators don't mind).

I don't know if it counts for anything, but I want to show that Dems, Liberals, etc DO support our troops.

http://www.uso.org/pubs/8_20_2733.cfm

[GetTheRightVote]

1. This thread has been done, I donated earlier today, poor soldiers

:bounce:

[rzemanfl]

2. Show respect for your elders when you flame me, but

this is the truth. The Vietnam War did not end because people supported the troops, it ended because they spit on them.

That's history. Sorry.

[Jesus H. Christ]

3. No, it's made up bunk.

The only people that spit on the troops were the war hawks that needlessly kept them there.

Just like the hawks today.

[rzemanfl]

4. I was around then

were you?

[iamjoy]

8. The Country Is Different

I was not around then, so maybe I shouldn't speak. But I think the fact that some spit on our soldiers is part of the reason the Vietnam War was so traumatic. I mean all wars are traumatic and not having a military victory was a first for the USA, but I think the fact that these men (and women) came home and were treated as criminals made it harder for them to heal.

There was a Liberal revolution in the 60's. Liberals were hip and cool and anti-establishment. Now, we are in the midst of a great Conservative backlash. Liberals are seen as establishment (which is bullshit, but this is the perception) and if we are disrespectful to the soldiers the backlash will intensify. I am tired of hearing that Liberals hate America.

But, me, personally, I think supporting our soldiers is the morally right thing to do. They are risking their lives for us (we know that this may be bullshit, but don't blame the person drinking the Kool Aid, blame the one serving it) and I will not disrespect them. But if you see disrespecting our soldiers as the moral thing to do because it will hasten the end of the war if they are treated like shit, I must respectfully disagree.

[rzemanfl]

10. How do you support the soldiers and not support the war?

I don't know. I am not advocating for spitting on soldiers, just stating a fact, or a bullshit collective memory that has survived nearly forty years, but how does one support them and not support what they are doing? If the truth were told, there were a goodly number of war criminals who came home from Vietnam and a lot of good people who were treated like criminals by association.

I have a download, "apachehit.mpg" in which someone in a position of command clearly orders a helicopter gunner to waste an obviously grievously wounded Iraqi, and he does. Do we support the shooter and not the guy who gave the order? How? Do you support the people who abused the prisoners? They're troops aren't they?

Why is it "morally right" to support someone engaged in a morally wrong activity because they have no choice in the matter but to disobey an order?

In World War II only 25% of American troops in combat ever actually shot at someone. They shot at tree lines, ridges and buildings but only a fourth of them could bring themselves to put the sights on someone and pull the trigger or wound up in a position where they had no choice. From what I see, this may not the case in Iraq and it can't be clear who the enemy is there.

In Viet Nam we at least had the cover of defending a government (however corrupt) and the troops were mostly draftees. In Iraq we started a war for what proved to be nothing but bogus reasons with a volunteer army. I pity the troops but I can't separate the mission from the people enough to put any ribbons on my car.

Not "supporting the troops" is not "hating America." Karl Rove would like you to think that, but it isn't true. The road to fascism is this way, support the troops, support the troops...Gott mit uns...support the troops...act preemptively...support the troops...

P.S. we didn't "have a victory" in Korea either.

[iamjoy]

11. Because They Are Caught In The Middle

I am talking about most of our soldiers. Not the ones involved in the shit at Abu Ghraib or knowingly, deliberately killing unarmed civilians, but I am inclined to remember "innocent until proven guilty" and give them benefit of the doubt.

I give them benefit of the doubt that they believe they are doing the right thing, that they believe they are defending our country or helping another country attain the freedoms we love. If I were to spit on them, they wouldn't understand, they would think I hated them, hated our country. They would be hurt, just as I am hurt when Conservatives try to act like I am treasonous or evil, that I don't love my country because I have views or take actions with which they disagree. I love America, I don't always like what we do, but I do love my country.

I know not supporting our troops isn't the same as not supporting America, but most people aren't able to make that distinction, including our troops.

Some of them aren't willing to be there, they are National Guardsmen who were told one weekend a month, two weeks a year, thought they'd be called up to help in natural disasters or war. Others joined the military thinking it would just be for a short time and have found their enlistments extended. So, they aren't all willing because some thought that they were supposed to defend our country, not get involved in some pre-emptive shit, and some have just had their eyes opened by seeing other parts of the world.

P.S. I thought about the fact that we didn't really have a victory in Korea, but it was really more of a stalemate than a defeat

[Bucky]

12. Is it too simple to say my form of support is trying to bring them home?

This war is just getting worse and worse. It's going to extract a hellacious cost from this country--another debt we have yet to start paying, or even understanding the scope of it.

That cost will be borne by all of us, not just the soldiers or the supporters of that war. All of us. In a democracy, you own it, even if you disagree with the route the driver takes. So yes, I support the troops in the way that matters most. I want to see them live. For that matter, how can you want to end the war and NOT be a supporter of the troops.

You may not have a ribbon on your car, rzemanfl, but there's one on your heart.

[rzemanfl]

13. I agree with most of what you say, but...

were the results of the last two elections democratic, so as to put us in the position of owning what is going on now? Even if you accept the 2004 results, Bush wasn't an incumbent, elected President. Our country was hijacked.

After September 11th I was ready to have Bush nuke Mecca. Cheney and the rest of Bush's handlers played our anger like a fiddle.

[sunshine2]

5. Received same e-mail. here is my reply

Hi All: I received the same e-mail and although is off the topic, I took the opportunity to let him know how I feel about the election. I ask your forgiveness for my English writing skills. It is my second language.

Dear Mr. Kerry:



I just received your letter and I was heartbroken to read your comment about the "end of what has been an extraordinary year". I had dreams and hopes that you would fight to the end and contest this election. You and 56 million other Americans know the result of this election was a false. You should have fought for us. You inspired me to work hard for you and to believe again that there was a system where all of our voices could had been heard. You inspired to believe in politics and politicians. You inspired to give my time and registered thousands of people to vote. I am a mother of two that works all day but still took time off to participate in our democratic process because of you. I attended every rally I could when you visited us in Florida, although I never had the chance to meet you or see you up-close, I was just happy to show up and see the multitude and people's faces. They were all craving for the same thing I was. An honest leader.

November 3rd was a black day for me. I didn't go to work; I called in sick at work and cried all day. Something went wrong, I wondered. Now I know that the voting machines had been hacked, and this was pre-planed by the Bush people probably long time ago.

You conceded and didn't keep your promise of fighting for us and for having our back. Now, what should I do? Now, who do I trust? Now, what will happen with my future or kid’s future? Where was the leader I saw in the campaign and in the rallied I went to? Mr. Kerry, where are you? Why aren't you fighting for us? You were my only and last hope.


I guess I should retreat and surrender.


Eunice Romaguera

Miami, FL

[rzemanfl]

6. Your writing is just fine.

It's just that plain English words don't mean the same thing to politicians that the dictionary says they do. I too stayed home the day after the election, but I had a premonition and took a day of vacation.

It is good you have two languages, it increases your options should you decide to opt out of Bushworld. This used to be a decent country. Sorry.

[iamjoy]

7. That's Why I Said MoveOn.org

and gave them credit for telling me about it, not John Kerry.

[idiosyncratic]

9. Welcome to DU!

That is a wonderful letter.

I am still affected by the results. The other night I watched the Kennedy Center Honors. When I caught a glimpse of JK and Teresa in the audience, I burst into tears. :cry:

[theHandpuppet]

14. Which ones?

The 70% who voted for Bush?