Just watched a smashing special on Channel 4 (London) about the Bible

[Brian_Expat]

Surprise, surprise, the Bible is a book of stories and myths, not written all at once, but my numerous authors in different languages over the centuries, and the Bible of today is a canon of texts picked out of the over 2 dozen gospels (narrowed down to 4) that preserved male dominance in a patirarchal Roman society.

It would never be shown in this country, which is sad, since it was irreproachably well-researched, with extensive interviews with Bible scholars, archaeologists, and historians. But it really shed light on how "Biblical inerrancy" is one giant, easily proven myth, and that any insight from the Bible comes from "faith" rather than factual histories or accounts.

A fascinating, fascinating documentary. Public television here, probably banned outright in the USA.

[disillusioned1]

1. You're right

We'll never see it. Pity.

[rsmith6621]

2. Isnt It great That

You can choose to beleive what you want......I always say besure you believe what you believe it could make all the difference in this world and in the other world.

Ill leave it at that

[CrispyQ]

3. I love that photo of JK.

There is another one, facing sideways like this one, only he is a young man. Do you by chance know where I could download it, too?

[Brian_Expat]

6. You can believe what you want. . .

. . . just don't make a book of fairy tales written to satisfy the political agendas of the Ancient King of Judah, then Constantine, then the Roman Court, and then King James the basis of our political system.

[CJCRANE]

10. Wouldn't it be great...

to take fundamentalists from every major religion/sect who believe that God has spoken to them and that their Book is the only Truth and put them in a room together to argue it out (and finally find out what it's like for the rest of us).

[StClone]

4. Actually PBS ran a similar Bible research program

It was a few years ago. What I remember most is that the stories were "selected" and "improved" through the ages.

[Brian_Expat]

8. This one goes even further.

There are FOUR different versions of the old testament, which Jews have known about for some time. Sometime in the 800 BC era, some people wrote the Torah to incorporate them all and more-or-less froze this revision process at 100 BC.

The interesting thing is that text that directly contradicts other text was preserved, since literacy was considered so rare than anything written was assumed to be "inspired by God." Fascinating stuff.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. What is really interesting

is that the facts that they have presented in this special are things that I was taught and studied when I was a kid. I knew about the Counsels, the many different texts, even that the documents upon which the Bible is based were written down at different times, often hundreds of years after the events supposedly took place. When I mention this to fundies, steam comes out of their ears, and they say that doesn't matter, the Bible was divinely inspired, etc, etc. I get the feeling they are scared of something.

[Brian_Expat]

7. They're scared of being "insecure"

A world without some divinely set order terrifies them. The worst thing in the world to them would be a world of free will, where morality grows out of our relationships with our fellow man rather than what a giant, violent Sky Fairy declares must happen.

As a Quaker, I watch fundies grapple with this all the time, and coming out of fundamentalist cults is hard on them, but ultimately welcomes them into the land of independent thinking and a truly greater understanding of the spiritual and communal lives we all lead.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. independent thinking...

and greater understanding...I agree with this. One thing I believe would help them would to have some direct personal spiritual experience that they interpret for themselves. The Dances of Universal Peace can be helpful in this regard.

[Brian_Expat]

11. Spirituality is intensely personal

That's why I find organized religion, and especially clergy, to be so offensive to my basic tastes. Nobody needs a "special person" to get in touch with God. Nor do they need a "special book."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Direct experience

is the goal of the Sufi. One can find that experience in many ways-and I feel that it is likely each person finds it in their own personal way. That's why fundamentalism, which insists on one way, one interpretation, doesn't work for me either.

[annarbor]

14. Very nicely stated Brian_Expat

My feelings exactly....

Ann Arbor

[American Tragedy]

13. Rather similar program shown here on the History channel actually

[Brian_Expat]

16. Trust me, this was much more controversial

They did academic inquiry AND asked tough questions, refusing to let the protagonists wriggle out with a dismissive answer (though "I don't know" was acceptable -- despite the fact few said it).

It would not be shown because it undermined so many people's irrational "faith beliefs."

[Malva Zebrina]

15. Certainly such a thing would never be shown here

The literalists have taken over politically and they are on a roll. Flush with the election of a man they think is a god's choice, they now are enabled to go full force into anythuing and everything that will assure them that the baby Jesus will be the president someday soon.



The fear is, of course, should even ONE of any of the biblical tracts, verses of utterances, be proven to be false, their whole religion/belief falls apart.

And they will do and say ANYTHING to prevent that from happening.

Sad, because they have gained some political clout from those who are crooks to begin with, and stupid, because they will say or do anything in order to maintain the myth of iteracy of an ancient document, formed in it's present day presentation,
by mere men, and that has been interpreted so many times as to have it's text altered.It is not by any means, a history of the baby Jesus and certainly so full of contradictions that absurdity is required to defend it's literal interpretation.

[Brian_Expat]

17. One of the best parts. . .

. . . was when the documentarian (an Oxford Pentecostal man who is now a theologian) went to go talk to Bush's "spiritual advisor" in Georgia. He taped the advisor speaking to a group of his flock (all white, of course -- the documentarian was black British).

Some choice quotes from the guy's sermon:

"The United Nations doesn't agree with us, who cares? I don't. Agree with us, great. Don't agree with us, whopee, who cares?"

"One question I get asked is whether the president has made mistakes. I believe he has. We shouldn't have gone into Iraq with just 150,000 troops. We should have FLOODED it with 500,000!"

Really God-like, eh? :puke:

[Pegleg Thd]

18. If I am remembering correctly

I believe it was Karl Marx who put organized religion in proper perspective. He said "religion is the opiate of the people".

[Calvinist Basset]

19. As I tell the members of my congregation . . .

The Bible is a book of faith. It is a bunch of writings collected together to help us understand the dynamics of our relationships with God and one another.

Furthermore, I speak of the Bible as "God's Word," but not with the same focus as a lot of fundamentalists. For me, it is "God's Word" in the fact that it shows both the successes and failures of human life, and the spiritual growth we can tap into in both circumstances.

It boggles my mind that others have their faith threatened with such facts. As for me, these things only strengthen my faith.