Former Packer Reggie White Dead at 43

[heidiho]

Breaking now on ESPN. No details given about how he died.

Sad day for football fans here in Green Bay.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[htuttle]

2. Yes

Yes he did.

I was kind of worried he was going to emerge as an electable Ron Greer at one point. Don't have to worry about that anymore.

[TrueAmerican]

5. Did he die of AIDS

or steroids? Or AIDS brought about by dirty needles used to inject steroids.

[shamanstar]

36. reggie white was a positive player for the green bay packers

he seemed like a kind man who was into religion. i never got any bad vibes from him (i am a lesbian)... this is a shock and people here badmouthing him should hope that nobody talks smack about them after they die.

[TankLV]

60. He was a royal FUCK - anti-gay religious bigot.

Period.

He was about as far from a "kind" man as anyone could be.

A good football player for a particular team. Big fucking deal.

He was an evil person who is partly responsible for the hatred towards the GBLT community and non-right wing religious wacko fundies.

May he burn in hell for his hatred towards others not exactly like him.

[okieinpain]

81. very true, I do believe he was a bush lover. but I don't want him

to burn in hell

[Dinger]

130. Well, O.K., Thank you

I don't want anybody to burn in hell.

[Moloch]

111. A positive player for the religious right, maybe.

I'm not cheering the death of anyone, but he was virulently homophobic and quite possibly, racist.

[CO Liberal]

112. They Won't Speak Ill Of Me.....

...because I'm not a hate-filled homophobe. Reggie White was, and that's why he's being badmouthed.

[MsTryska]

215. You not the only one wondering whether it was AIDS.....

i had a thread going on that, but it got locked.


i think it was AIDS-related illness too..

[IndianaGreen]

6. Thank you for the reminder

I remember him being a preacher of some sort and that there was something bad about him, but I couldn't remember what.

[hippiechick]

41. He made an ASS of himself in front of the WI state legislature

Gave some honorary speech in 97 or 98 after a Superbowl Win and sounded homophobic, reverse-racist and fairly neanderthal, if I recall correctly.

Was quite the buzz in the WI media at the time.


:hippie:

[rabbit2484]

47. "Asians are gifted with intellegence...

Africans are gifted with athletic abilities,"

I think it was something like that. But I don't think it changed most of the people in WI opinion of him as a leader on and off the field.

[MnFats]

67. yes. some legislators walked out.

he said a lot of crazy stuff...stereotypical and shallow.
sorry but that is some hateful shit.
he helped some pseudo-Christians feel "OK" with their racism, homophobia and Jew-hating.

I'm sorry for his family, though his wife echoed the same sentiments.
Yeah, he was a great football player.
Off the field, he did a lot of damage.

[IndianaGreen]

126. Wasn't he the one that said that Hispanics can pack an entire family

into one room? I think he was! I was very offended by that racial stereotype. This proves that your race, color, religion, sex, or national origin does not make one immune to holding racist views.

[DU9598]

3. Karma got him

Great football player, hateful man.

[Dinger]

49. No He Wasn't Hateful

Ignorant maybe, but not hateful. I repectfully disagree.

[RevCheesehead]

74. Amen, Dinger.

Amen.

[CO Liberal]

113. He Wasn't Ignorant

He knew exactly what he was saying, and the effect his words would have on the homophobes in our society looking for justifiation for their positions.

Reggie White was a hate-filled turd of a human being. I hope he rots in hell.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Dinger]

146. No, You Are Mistaken

I, for one, forgive Reggie White. It isn't "just because he could play football." Football has NOTHING to do with it. It is my act of kindness, that's all. Sorry if that bothers you.

P.S. Please don't tell me IF I idolize someone or not, and please don't tell ME why I make the decisions I do. Has everything to do with me, and nothing to do with you.

[CO Liberal]

172. Regardless of WHY You Made Your Decision...

...I believe you made the wrong decision.

[Dinger]

177. Well, At Least That's An Answer That

doesn't have the "tone" of your other responses in this thread. I understand that the topic of this thread is definitely HOT, and people feel strongly about it, but I have been disappointed (euphamism) in the nastiness and not-so-hidden "attacks" of some of the responses here. It appears that things are settling down a little bit. Reggie was too young to die, and he leaves behind a family and many friends who loved him very much. My heart goes out to them.

[CO Liberal]

190. He Also Left Behind...

....a lot of people who were deeply offended by his hate-filled homophobic rhetoric, and fellow homophobes who were delighted and felt validated by those statements. Never forget that.

[arwalden]

191. Don't Forget The Seeds Of Hatred He Planted In The Minds Of His Young Fans

His young and impressionable fans who wouldn't hesitate to spend MONEY on something he endorsed, can endorse his faith-based homophobia bigotry for free!

And then there are the kids who are gay and who end up feeling depressed and worthless because someone they ADMIRE thinks that THEY are worthless and less deserving of equality.

Wow! That's quite a legacy Reggie White. Your fans must be awfully proud!

-- Allen

[WoodrowFan]

181. come on CO Liberal

Don't hide your feelings, let it out. ;)



Actually I agree he was a bigot. I'm sorry he died before he could learn how hateful he really was (or seemed to be).

[IndianaGreen]

4. Heart attack

according to MSNBC

[baldguy]

7. It's a tragedy when anybody dies young.

May God have mercy on his soul.

[October]

8. Philly Fans too

Still beloved in the area.

[steely]

12. true true

we all missed him when he left - I guess it'll get some sort of coverage monday nite.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

9. ESPN reports it was a “massive heart attack.”

They also reported he was a lapsed Christian and had not attended church in four years.

[flygal]

19. Sounds like *

[Renew Deal]

10. Wow

zthat's unbelievable. The guy is so young.

[CEDEVLvg]

14. Heard That...

...his weight had ballooned from 340 to over 500 lbs, which likely had impact on his health.

There are also rumors of steroid use but that's up for discussion. I'm inclined to believe it's more about all that beef around his middle.

Very sad.

[hlthe2b]

26. Oh my word! Any kind of massive ballooning like that could really

have put him over the edge. I wonder what in his life had happened to cause that...?

[Dinger]

178. I'm Sure He Gained Some Weight, But

I saw reggie about a year ago, at a Packer game, and he looked slim, if anything, so if he gained this much weight, he did it in the last year. Guess it doesn't really matter now.

[LTR]

11. Here's a link

http://espn.go.com/classic/obit/s/2004/1226/1953400.html

Never liked the smug, hateful, self-righteous bastard, but the loss at such an early age has got to be a shocker for the whole family, especially during the holidays. My condolences to his family.

[rocktivity]

13. Didn't he also force-feed the team pre-game prayer meetings?

He didn't like gays coming out of the closet, and he didn't like praying in one.

:headbang:
rocknation

[crimson333]

15. not according to those that played with him

that have been interviewed today

[rocktivity]

108. Well, of COURSE they're saying that NOW

And if the subject came up to begin with, well, it adds a whole new dimension to meaning of the term "'defensive' players"!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Chimpanzee]

16. Reggie didn't hate 'fags'

He was a 'devout' christian and thought it was wrong, but he didn't hate anyone. He was a bit misguided in his thinking, but he was a good man at heart. At least that's what I will believe because I saw him up close and personal when he was a Packer and he was a very generous and caring person. I'll never forget the 3 sacks in SBXXXI that helped him get the ring he'd always coveted.

Rest in Peace, Reggie!

[ruggerson]

17. Sorry buddy

But I'm fed up with the "hate the sin, love the sinner" excuse crap.

The whole Christian "victimhood" thing essentially boils down to:
"Waaah! You won't let us hate the groups we want to hate and institutionalize our hatred into civil laws and make everyone else abide by them! Waaaah! You're anti Christian!"

Reggie White made hateful disparaging remarks about an entire group/class of human beings. It doesn't define his life, it doesn't mean he was a thoroughly evil human being, but the reality is that he was a world class bigot, and I hope for his sake that he was able to wake up a little intellectually before his demise.

[Bluzmann57]

22. According to reports, Reggie recanted his statements

that he made in front of the Wisconsin State Legislature. He was looking at his religious life in a different light and was studying Hebrew so that he could better understand the bible and the lessons contained therein. I suppose those who hate and can't forgive him for his statements are entitled to their opinions, but I am going to miss Reggie White and I am a not an overly religious person, but a forgiving one. If you are perfect then more power to you. I am not, nor was Reggie White.

[HuckleB]

24. Exactly.

We all make ridiculous mistakes, but some of us do work to make amends.

[TankLV]

62. No "we" don't! Don't you dare lump US into the same mold as that hateful

cretin.

I've never disparaged or denigrated anyone like he did.

And I will give back to those that wish me dead and worse exactly what they "give" to me and my kind.

[HuckleB]

152. Actually...

you just disparaged and denigrated someone far worse than he ever did.

[TankLV]

153. Bullshit - that's somuch of a stretch I don't know where to begin.

So - being angry and criticizing those that wish us harm put's us in the same league as these assholes? I don't think so for a split second!

I wasn't the one who made special efforts to BE AT THE FRONT OF THE PACK OF INTOLERANT RELIGIOUS WACKOS WHO WERE IN THE STATE CAPITOL TRYING TO PAST HATE LEGISLATION.

I'm not the one who used his position of fame snd influence to spread hias hatred and bigotry.

And he certainly did no such thing as make ammends or apologize for his hateful and hurtful speaches and diatribes against those not exactly like his perverted sence of religiosity!

Your ignorance makes me laugh if it weren't so sad.

You apologists are truly disgusting.

[HuckleB]

187. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

Paint it however you like, going down to "their" level leaves one no better than those one criticizes. How did Reggie wish you harm, by the way?

[donheld]

164. Not even close

You just stretched the truth beyond imagination.

[HuckleB]

188. How?

[ruggerson]

169. That's absurd

And I'm really friggin' tired of people making outrageous statements, all because folks comment frankly and sincerely on how bigoted this man was.

Face facts. He was a bigot. He actively worked to make life miserable for millions of people. He actively worked to undermine and disenfranchise their families from the moral and civic nexus of social life in the United States. His work, his rhetoric gave comfort to the worst kind of hatemongers out there amongst us.

These are things he did. They are works that are far larger and more impactful than anything he ever did on the football field.

I wish him, as I've written before, no ill will, nor his family any ill will. But what he did while on earth was a travesty. That is his legacy.

And people have the right to comment on his hatemongering without having others falsely label THEM as being guilty of the type of destruction that Reggie White purveyed.

[HuckleB]

189. Face facts.

There are many bigoted posts on this board. These are the things people have said about him that have nothing to do with the ridiculous things White said. I called a poster on that, and it's not absurd. It's being honest and fair.

[Ratty]

25. Why didn't I hear about it?

Reminds me of a couple of other characters who "recanted."

For anybody who doesn't remember, Eddie Murphy used to say hurtful, really hateful things about gays in his comedy albums. He later "recanted." I believe this consisted of a very quiet little apology in some interview or other. Let's see, he sells millions of albums targeted at an impressionable young community, makes his anti-gay statements in front of a total of millions at his concerts, then quietly says "I'm sorry about that folks" during some interview or other. Yeah, that makes up for it.

Let's see, who else. Oh yeah, Ronald Reagan. Never once said the word "AIDS" publicly while in his 8 years of office, at the beginning of the plague while thousands were dying in their youths. Oh right, once he was out of office and no longer had political influence, he casually mentions that he probably should have said and done more.

It may not sound like it to you, but I am a forgiving sort. There are people who have done terrible things but have truly and demonstrably shown their regret. George Wallace comes to mind. He made a career of atoning for all he had done while he was governor. Some may never forgive him but everyone should be honest enough to admit the man tried.

These people who "recant," let see them devote at least the same amount of time and effort and publicity they expended doing all their harm in the first place.

[hlthe2b]

29. Sincerity of "recanting..." sometimes hard to judge.... but

I agree with your point...

[arwalden]

27. It was a FAKE APOLOGY. He only wanted to keep his endorsements...

Sorry, I'm not so naive to believe the sincerity of any "recanted" statement or "apology" that's clearly being made to mollify the folks at Campbells or Nike or SCJohnson (or whoever) just so that they wouldn't cancel his endorsement deal.

In April of 1998... the folks at Nike made the following statement"

We welcome Reggie White back as a Nike athlete to another season of exciting NFL football. With regard to his recent remarks before the Wisconsin Assembly, Mr. White has issued an apology to those who may have been offended. Therefore, we are prepared to continue support of his commitment to excellence on the field and his established record of community service throughout the country.

BUT WITHIN DAYS, REGGIE WHITE SAYS GAYS HURT CHILDREN AND KILL PEOPLE

In a 20/20 interview, White was anything but apologetic. White said CBS was "...too scared of the Sodomite community...I feel sorry for them because they can't stand the truth."

At that point CBS dropped him from on-air commentary and Campbell's Soup let their contract with him expire -- he endorsed chunky soups.

According to the Associated Press (April 26), White's 20/20 interview included the following statement:

"White said he stands by his remarks regarding gays. `I am going to speak the truth and I am going to speak out against things that's hurting our children, that's killing off our people,' White said. `If people think that's a contradiction and that's hate, they need to take them up with God, not with Reggie White.'"

APOLOGY INDEED!! WHAT HORSE SHIT!!!

[hlthe2b]

31. Yowser..... Now all of that IS tough to reconcile!

[genieroze]

66. REGGIE WHITE SAYS GAYS HURT CHILDREN AND KILL PEOPLE

So does being hundreds of pounds overweight. It sets a bad example for kids if you are an athlete and it can kill you. Look what happened to him. Just for clarification, I'm no heath nut, far from it and I'm not the eating police. I was making the comparison because of what he said was just as stupid as what I said.

[hlthe2b]

28. I'm not the football fan that many are here, and I don't remember any of

these details enough to know. But, I surely hope I won't be judged purely on a ridiculous thoughtless comment or two made in my lifetime-- which I surely came to regret. So, if this is the case with Reggie, I hope the "whole" of his life will come to light and not just these unfortunate instances.

[arwalden]

32. Oh Brother! --- "...unfortunate instances..." ??? You're Joking, Right?

:eyes:

I can appreciate that genuine lapses in judgement do occur... and that people deserve the benefit of the doubt, at first. But he clearly showed a pattern of hatred and bigotry and his apologies were shown to be insincere.

Second chances, yes. Maybe even a third or fourth... but Mr. White used up all his "extra chance" cards.

[hlthe2b]

37. Arwalden.. if you look at posts chronologically, you'll see that I had not

seen your post (and others) pointing out the historical litany of comments with equally offensive defense of comments over a span of time. when I made the point about "unfortunate instances."

Some few DO jump on a few trivial comments made in a thoughtless manner-- but quickly denounced and not repeated. I was only referring to THAT as the possibility. Again, we have all made ridiculous statements under the influence or when angry, that we did not mean nor truly believe. I realize now, that this does NOT appear to be the case with Reggie White, but I started my post by indicating I did not remember the exact comments or circumstances.

I'm certainly not out to defend this man, just to try to understand who he truly was.

[arwalden]

38. I Saw That... The Nature Of Threads...

can be confusing at times. And keeping up with running-comments on three or four different SUB threads can be even more difficult.

Thanks for checking back on this sub-thread. :-)

-- Allen

[OldLeftieLawyer]

44. Watch out

Calling racist rantings and hate speeches - deliberately written and delivered, with much preparation and thought put into them - "ridiculous, thoughtless comment(s)' is completely undervaluing and diminishing the reality of the subject.

No one invited Reggie White to share his bigotry. He did it freely, willingly, and in front of a captive audience. And he was proud of those things.

I say good riddance. Let those who played football with him say all the nice things they want about him, but, in the end, he's simply remembered as a bigot who went out of his way to be vicious and who died a disgusting death.

[hlthe2b]

82. Perhaps you should re-read this and my other posts on this thread...

before you jump to conclusions. I am certainly not doing this.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

97. I quoted what you wrote

It was very clear. I think you attempted to diminish something that I find significant, and that's all.

I don't "jump to conclusions." I read what you wrote, and I responded.

[hlthe2b]

118. No, you conveniently ignored my initial statement:

I'm not the football fan that many are here, and I don't remember any of these details enough to know. ......

And, yes, you did jump to conclusions. When Arwalden posted details on White's statements over time, I made it a point to indicate my change of opinion. There may be plenty of people in this world who want to cause you offense. I am not one of them, but you'll miss some of your most ardent supporters by jumping to concusions.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

119. I'm not a football fan, either

And, sorry, but quoting your own words back to you, and then posting what I thought of them is hardly "jumping."

I did, however, remember what he did. Very clearly.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

122. Merry Christmas, pilgrim

All the best to you and yours.

[Dinger]

52. Well Said Bluzmann

Thank you.

[donheld]

165. Kinda like Osama whispering "I'm sorry"

just doesn't wash.

[Dinger]

180. You're Comparing Reggie White To Osama Bin Laden?

Are you serious? Just asking.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Great response!

You nailed it! It is OK for someone to cart out that "hate the sin, love the sinner" crap at their convince and we are supposed to look the other way! Fuck that!

He was young and I feel for his family's loss, but to act as if he was the great American hero is just bizarre! He wasn't even one the better football players!

I wonder if people here will have the same compassion when Ann Coulter buys the farm?

[arwalden]

30. ... or when Fred Phelps kicks the bucket.

[Jawja]

40. Yes, as I remember it,

White was going to peddle the "homosexuality is unChristian" message as his calling upon retirement from football.

[Dinger]

53. When Anne Coulter Buys The Farm

I won't have much of a reaction.

[RetroLounge]

92. That's only because Ann Coulter wasn't a Packer.

Reggie White was a Packer.

So you give him a pass on his bigotry and homophobia?

Sad...

RL

[Dinger]

109. It Has Nothing To Do With Reggie White Being A Packer

For me, personally, it has more to do with forgiveness, or don't you do forgiveness? Guess not. Sad, just sad.

[Chimpanzee]

56. You don't know the truth - you just think you do

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6756065/

Reggie came to terms with his ignorance, unlike alot of people that take it to their graves. You have a chance to be enlightened too.

[LeftCoast]

64. I belive it 'cuz Big Media tells me so!

:eyes:

[sampsonblk]

207. I hope you don't go to many churches

Not many people will say it publicly, but there are millions of church-going Americans who applaud what Reggie White said. (Probably almost all Bush voters) If you want to start somewhere, the thousands of churches in this country are a better place to start.

[BrainRants]

20. RIP Reggie, you are loved in Green Bay.

Reggie was a kind and generous man. He founded a small business jump-start foundation in Green Bay that has been responsible for giving disadvantaged and inner city people financial catalyst to start their own businesses. Reggie used his finances and celebrity for good deeds off the field, and for that he should be respected.

Reggie was no scholar, he was a sports figure. And although his public speaking gaffes made more than a few people (myself included) wince, he was a gentle giant, embodiment of team cohesion and leadership, and feared and respected by quarterbacks on the field.

May he rest in peace, love him or hate him, he was much too young.

[davidinalameda]

159. "his public speaking gaffes"

he knew exactly what he was saying

what freaking garbage

[Forkboy]

183. Which doesn't say much about Green Bay

[Ratty]

21. Here's some quotes

A search on Google turns up lots of stuff. You are so right. He never actually comes right out and says the three words "I hate gays." So I guess he was an okay guy then, right? If you don't use the word "hate" then that means you don't hate.

Gays are like liars and cheaters

" 'Homosexuality is a decision, it's not a race,' White said. 'People from all different ethnic backgrounds live in this lifestyle. But people from all different ethnic backgrounds also are liars and cheaters and malicious and back-stabbing.' " - Reggie White, Associated Press, March 25, 1998.

Gays hurt children, kill our people

"White said he stands by his remarks regarding gays. `I am going to speak the truth and I am going to speak out against things that's hurting our children, that's killing off our people,' White said. `If people think that's a contradiction and that's hate, they need to take them up with God, not with Reggie White.'" Associated Press, April 26, 1998, quoting White's 20/20 interview.

Gays are like backstabbers and malicious people

PEGGY WEHMEYER of ABC's 20/20: "Just last week, Reggie White and his wife, Sara, met us for an exclusive interview. White told us he was sorry if he offended anyone, but he wasn’t backing down one inch. (on camera) Are you saying there that homosexuals are like liars, cheaters, backstabbers and malicious people?"
REGGIE WHITE "Yes." - ABC's 20/20, April 27, 1998.

"Sodomite community"

"Reggie White's wife said CBS was `'too scared'' to hire her husband as a football commentator because of his controversial speech before the Wisconsin State Assembly. White, the Green Bay Packers defensive lineman who retired and unretired last week, used ethnic stereotypes and called homosexuality `'one of the biggest sins'' in the Bible in his remarks last month. 'They were too scared of the Sodomite community is what they said,' Sara White told ABC's '20/20'." - ASSOCIATED PRESS, April 26, 1998

Gays responsible for STDs

"America is not big enough to shake her fist in the face of a holy God and get away with it, and as I read this I want to explain something. I'm going to read this and then I want to explain something. As America has permitted homosexuality to establish itself as an alternate lifestyle, it is also reeling from the frightening spread of sexually transmitted disease. Sin begets its own consequence, both on individuals and nations."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Homosexuality one of the biggest sins

"Let me explain something when I'm talking about sin, and I'm talking about all sin. One of the biggest ones that has been talked about that has really become a debate in America is homosexuality."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Gays have problems

"Now, I believe that one of the reasons that Jesus was accused of being a homosexual is because he spent time with homosexuals. I've often had people ask me, would you allow a homosexual to be your friend. Yes, I will. And the reason I will is because I know that that person has problems, and if I can minister to those problems, I will."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Being gay compared to lying, gays hurt nation

"But the Bible strictly speaks against it, and because the Bible speaks against it, we allow rampant sin including homosexuality and lying, and to me lying is just as bad as homosexuality, we've allowed this sin to run rampant in our nation, and because it has run rampant in our nation, our nation is in the condition it is today."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

Offended that gays say deserve rights

"Sometimes when people talk about this sin they've been accused of being racist. I'm offended that homosexuals will say that homosexuals deserve rights. Any man in America deserves rights, but homosexuals are trying to compare their plight with the plight of black men or black people. In the process of history, homosexuals have never been castrated, millions of them never died. Homosexuality is a decision. It's not a race."- Remarks by Reggie White to the Wisconsin Assembly, March 25, 1998.

[ruggerson]

34. Everyone On This Thread Should Read Your Post

It wasn't the case of one "thoughtless" remark.

It was a an adult lifetime of bigotry, malice, venom and lies.

Someone who actively and maliciously tried to lie about a whole class of people, and actively and maliciously tried to make those people's lives worse, deserves no praise.

His bigotry and the activism surrounding that bigotry trumps any running up and down a field he may have done.

[Ratty]

45. I sincerely don't wish the man dead

As petty as I generally can be, 43 is much too young to die as BrainRants points out (I'm 43 myself). It's appropriate to point out a person's good qualities when they have passed away, but Reggie was certainly no hero and the damage that a very public person has done simply can't be forgotten. Friends and relatives should remember the good but the public needs to be reminded of it all. You never know, people can change, Reggie may eventually have changed and done some good later in his life. We'll never know now.

[Chimpanzee]

157. Can you find any quotes like this since 1998? That was 6-7 years ago

[SnowBack]

170. So he said it 6 years ago - he was still a BIGOT

Too bad some people will try to use any way to excuse bigotry

[Chimpanzee]

185. I don't excuse bigotry at all, but when someone tries to change

his ways, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. No need to respond because I already know what you think and I won't post on this again.

[SnowBack]

197. One sentence by some "journalist" doesn't mean he changed

Give me a break... As if journalists get things right all the time... :eyes:

[annarbor]

39. Reggie White Spoke At Eastern Michigan University....

a few years back. The city of Ypsilanti, MI (where EMU is seated) proposed an ordinance that would have prohibited discrimination against people based upon their sexual orientation. Reggie White traveled all the way to Michigan to attend a rally in OPPOSITION to the ordinance. He was the keynote speaker. I will never forget how hateful that man was against gays and gay rights. I feel for his children, but the reality is, there is one less hate mongerer (sp) in the world today.

Ann Arbor

[arwalden]

70. And His Apologist Defenders Here At DU Would Have Us Believe...

... that he just made a few "innocent" and "misunderstood" faith-based statements that were taken out of context. (What horse shit!)

Thanks for your post and for the reminder that his homophobia and bigotry were NOT just innocent mistakes or poorly chosen words. It was is CALLING!!

I say... Good riddance to bad trash!

-- Allen

[IndianaGreen]

134. But, but, but, Reggie was a football hero

and that makes his racism* and homophobia okay, just as it is okay that O.J. Simpson got away with murder, and "that LA Laker" is okay too.

I wonder if Scott Peterson would have been convicted had he been a big football star.

* Reggie's views on Hispanics would had been seen as the truly racist view it was had it been said by a white man.

[Dinger]

51. Thank You For Your Compassion Chimpanzee

I would have thought we'd see more compassion from this boards, but I respect their opinions, along with yours.

From a rabid Packer fan,

Dinger

[IndianaGreen]

135. If you were to take off that cheese head hat for a short time

you will see Reggie White as the big bigot that he was. This is NOT a football issue!

[Dinger]

142. I Never Said This Was A Football Issue

Boy, this thread is sickening. Not a forgiving soul in sight.

[Chimpanzee]

158. I'm pretty shocked that some people wish he would 'rot in hell'.

I guess if they have that much hatred in their own hearts, maybe that's where they will end up.

BTW, Dinger, have you ever hung out at Zbuds, or X4 packer sites?

[Dinger]

179. No, But I Will

Where do I find them?

[Chimpanzee]

184. The sites are

www.zbud.com
www.timesfour.com

Pretty good Packer message boards. Each has a slightly different posting philosophy. Zbuds has a few smackdown forums and other smack type forums, along with their no-smack ones, and they represent the entire NFC North, although its run by a Packer fan and most posters are Packer fans. X4 is kinder and gentler.

[Dinger]

206. Thanks Chimpanzee!

They're grreat!

[MnFats]

69. remember, 'you shall not covet.'

God made it pretty clear to Moses.
It was written in stone.
NO excemptions for Super Bowl rings.

[donheld]

166. Monkey man on this one i must disagree

:eyes:

[Chimpanzee]

186. As my 12 year old daughter would say - whatever!

[sportndandy]

18. RIP Reggie, Thanks for the memories.

[donheld]

167. RIP Reggie, Thanks for the HATEFILLED memories

we sure don't have enough to hate us now that Reg is gone do we.

[hvn_nbr_2]

33. "Hate the sin, love the sinner"

Several have mentioned this mantra of the wrong-wing "Christians."

My mantra in response is this: Love that is indistinguishable from hate is no love at all.

[donheld]

168. "love the sinner"

With love like they show who needs hate.

[RetroLounge]

35. Here's the Milwaukee newpaper forum

for leaving comments about Reggie WHite.

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/dec04/reggiewhite-forum.asp?action=post

Good or bad.

RL

[fooj]

42. couldn't believe my ears...

a sad day, indeed!

[RetroLounge]

93. Why? Did you know him personally?

I didn't.

Sorry for his family. Hope they don't end up as bigoted and homophobic as he did.

RL

[ChiciB1]

43. Seems He Was Truly Mis-Guided

Too bad he didn't understand RACISM or Gay Rights!!

As for being 500lbs, I guess this just comes under the heading
"Paybacks Are Hell!" In the end, no matter what he did or did not say, and he said a lot, it just goes to show that CHRISTIANITY does not keep you from an untimely death. In fact, one could argue that in spite of it, he bit the DUST!

[ruggerson]

46. Actually, what it shows you

is how disgustingly hypocritical rightwing bigots are.

They rail selectively against what they perceive as "sin" and "sinners," but feel free to eat their way to 500 lbs of obesity while they're ranting against others "sins."

Isn't gluttony one of the seven DEADLY sins? Far more important a sin biblically than "sodomy."

Come to think of it, this holds true for Falwell too. Why doesn't one of the cable hosts have the guts to confront him with his sin of gluttony.

We don't hate you, Jerry, we just hate your obesity.

[Dinger]

48. Yes, It Is A Sad Day Here In Packerland

I know Reggie screwed up a few things, but I really believe his intentions were not to HARM anyone. I don't believe there was any MALICIOUS intent on his part. He wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but he had a lot of good in him. I had the privilege of meeting him twice, with my son & nephew in tow, and he was very gracious and kind to them. I also believe he regretted his remarks, and I agree with many that they were wrong, but I for one will not judge Reggie White for ONE speech on ONE day. I will give him the benefit of a doubt, and be a grateful Packer fan for all he did for and brought to my team, the Green Bay Packers.

[annarbor]

55. He was gracious and kind to you and your son...

I'm gay and I doubt that he would have been as gracious to me and my little boy. I think that if you honestly took the time to read all the posts you will find that Reggie White had MANY hateful speeches...and not just in ONE DAY'S time.

Ann Arbor

[Dinger]

58. Reggie's Comments DID Affect How I Felt About Him, But

today I am just sad. My brother is gay, and he didn't like Reggie, but he doesn't think Reggie was a hopeless case. Maybe, just maybe Reggie might have come around. By the way, I am glad that you have a family. That is good to hear. And there's something special about how you referred to him as your "little boy." You obviously love him a lot. But please don't speculate what would happen, because you just don't KNOW untill it DOES happen. My example of meeting Reggie White was a lucky occurence; Reggie would sometimes take time to sign, and sometimes not. I'm sure there are many straight people who were left without an autograph, or photo, etc. It isn't exclusive to gay families or straight families. Peace man.

[annarbor]

68. You missed the whole point of my post!

When Reggie White was in-town to rally against rights for gays and lesbians, I can't imagine he would have welcomed my son and I with open arms (not that I would have let my child near him!) This isn't about football and autographs!....this is about common decency towards those that differ from you. Reggie White struggled with this and yes, I truly believe that he'll have to account for the hatred and harm that he caused before he "saw the light".

Peace unto you as well,
Ann Arbor

[Dinger]

110. Thanks For Your Response Ann Arbor, I Thought That

maybe you were getting pissed at me, so I was glad to see that wasn't the case:)

[Neshanic]

50. Free passes, get em here...Football hero free passes.

Homophobe.

Religious wack job.

Great football player.

Let's keep it straight. Pardon the pun.

[Chimpanzee]

54. Cut the guy a break!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6756065/

[Neshanic]

59. Cut him a break on an article written by a NBC sports shill?

Hardly.

Hall of Fame football player.

Religious nut.

Virolent homophobe.

Don't make up the facts...just report em.

[annarbor]

61. Thank you for the article....

but, I remember how vocal Reggie White was in his hatred of gays and lesbians. His celebrity status allowed him to "preach" his hatred in venues and to audiences that most would not have access to.

I appreciate how he "repented" in his latter days, but I must have missed all of his public appearances announcing how gays and lesbians were no longer the ilk of the earth. Therein lies my problem with him.....His trips to Israel and his quiet contemplations are of no interest to me. We would not be having this argument if he was bashing the hell out of black folks and Jews..

Ann Arbor

[arwalden]

72. So He SHOUTS His Venom And Whispers A Mumbling "Apology"

half-hearted and under his breath...??

And his apologists and defenders expect me to accept that as being "okay"??

NUTS!

[MrSlayer]

57. Sad day in Philly.

Reggie had his best years in Philly and was an integral part of the great "Gang Green" terror machine defense of the late 80's early 90's. White was the best defensive end to ever suit up. A sad day here in Philly as we lose another of the greats. R.I.P. Reggie may you meet up with Jerome Brown.

[deminflorida]

63. Why are so many people on this board bashing a dead man?

No matter what you think about Reggie White, he was entitled to his opinion. I don't believe that way, but people are allowed to have different opinions on issues.

Take for example, many people believe that "God Made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve". If that's what they want to believe then let them. Believe it or not the Constitution protects their right to have that warped opinion on gay lifestyles. Don't drag you own soul through the gutter by bashing a dead person at Christmas time.

On the other side of the coin, the man worked many offseasons with inner-city kids, and in 1996 when someone was burning down African American churchs across the south he was instrumental in fund raising to have those churches re-built. In the end the man looked inside himself and apologized for any harm his comments on gays may have caused.

That's good enough for me, that man has a family, and it's a terrible thing when someone dies at Christmas.

[arwalden]

71. So His "Good Deeds" Are A Free Pass For His Bigotry

and his lobbying to have establish policy and legislate bigoted laws against gays?

>> Take for example, many people believe that "God Made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve". If that's what they want to believe then let them. <<

Oh brother! :eyes: It's one thing for him to have his "beliefs"... but it's quite another for him to use his celebrity status to promote such bigotry.

>> Believe it or not the Constitution protects their right to have that warped opinion on gay lifestyles. <<

Yet Mr. White wanted to deny gays the equal protections promised to everyone under the constitution. You don't seem to care about that. Why?

>> Don't drag you own soul through the gutter by bashing a dead person at Christmas time. <<

So as long as a racist homophobic bigot can time his death to be close to Christmas time, he's safe from criticism? Do you seriously believe that?

>> In the end the man looked inside himself and apologized for any harm his comments on gays may have caused <<

HORSE SHIT! No sensible person I know actually BELIEVES that his "apology" was sincere. His apology was merely to placate the folks at Nike. When they accepted his "apology" and reaffirmed their intention to keep him on as a Nike spokesperson, Mr. White started up with his anti-gay venom the VERY NEXT WEEK!!!!

>> That's good enough for me, <<

Then your standards for measuring the sincerity are EXTREMELY LOW!

>> that man has a family, and it's a terrible thing when someone dies at Christmas. <<

Pity for his family and children. I hope he hasn't poisoned their minds and filled them with irrational hatred and bigotry.

So... explain this to me again: Why does dying at Christmas make someone any less deserving of criticism, than if they had died at any other time of the year?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

86. Deminflorida... That's Not A Nice Thing To Say To Me

Nobody is denying you your "right" to have an opinion... but don't confuse your right to have an opinion as being some sort of sheild that protects your opinion from criticism or scorn.

>> I really just believe that your having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the majority of Americans are not ready to accept same sex marriages. <<

It's EVERYTHING... not just that. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to EVERYTHING that goes on. I'm sick of it all!

>> Please seek counseling. <<

Lovely. Real nice.

-- Allen

P.S. The fact that you answered NONE of my direct questions did not go unnoticed.

[annarbor]

87. Americans weren't "ready" for interacial marriage either....

but it happened anyway. Did you have to seek counseling when that occurred? What a cheap shot at a well articulated response to your original post.....
This post has nothing to do with same-sex marriage and everything to do with church-sanctioned bigotry and Reggie White used to be one of their preachers....

[Malikshah]

88. Funny that interracial marriage is raised here

I won't go there, though.

Reggie White was completely unchristian in his views. As was his wife. Having watched interviews with them--it is clear that they had a skewed view of Christianity and the love that it offers to all of humanity.

They should have been publically shamed for this.

[annarbor]

91. My reply was a response to....

an implication that one of the DUer's was secretly struggling with the issue of same-sex marriage. I was simply trying to show that this very lengthy thread is about the death of a bigoted football player and had absolutely nothing to do with the issue of same-sex marriage.

Ann Arbor

[Malikshah]

96. No-- i was referring to the issue of interracial marriage

in other words, what Reggie White was involved in.

Something that a few decades ago would have caused tremendous outrage--is now OK

Too bad he didn't feel that way about others.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SnowBack]

104. Sure sound like one to me...

And White went out of his way to bash Gay people... People who apologize for haters are homophobic bigots...

You sure seem angry at being called a homophobe... Guess some of your best friends are Gay, huh? :eyes:

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

90. "Majority rules" you know. All others, "please seek counselling"

Hoo boy.

[deminflorida]

94. Well, I personally have no problem with same sex marriage...

but your right, in America majority DOES rule, so deal with it. If you need counselling for that then so be it.

If you want the laws changed you'll need a Majority in a Democratic Society.

So when you have that, let me know.

If you need me to vote for it I'm there. But you'll never change the rules without a majority of the voting public.

It's a FACT, live with it.

[Malikshah]

100. Another fact to live with

There are those of us who feel Reggie White was a homophobic racist bigot who was a blight upon US society

I do not celebrate his death, but will argue with all who would attempt to paint him as anything other than a hate monger.

It's called a difference of opinion

It's called standing up for a cause

It's called not fearing the path of truth for the lack of travelers on it...

[Bluebear]

103. "but your right,i n America majority DOES rule"

Actually civil rights are not supposed to be subject to the "Majority rule".

[SnowBack]

106. The KKK hates you, you Blacks should go get counselling...

The Nazis hate you Jews, you should go get counselling...

Nice that you're so supportive of Gay people... Have you ever done anything in support of Gays or Lesbians? Cuz talk is cheap...

[deminflorida]

124. I am tolerant of Gays and Lesbians, what more would have me

do?, become one?

Just how tolerant are you that I'm straight?

The comparison you are making about Nazis and the KKK is ridiculous. Nobody is talking about killing Gays here, but rather their right to marry within the same sex.

That's not really legal yet everywhere in America, and when Gays realize that until they have a majority of the population to support that change in culture the most they can hope for from the rest of society is tolerance.

You will never win any support in a free and democratic society by bashing people who have a difference in moral opinion about a certain type of lifestyle.

Personally I do in fact have friends and co-workers who are Gay and the most that I like any other progressive can do is vote progressively and hope for them that someday society will change to a more understanding environment that could support a union of two people that is recognized like any other union or household.

Until that time comes, I don't understand what more I could do.

I'm certainly not going to bash a dead guy at Christmas time because he once voiced an opinion based on a strong moral and personal belief. No matter how wrong, I may think his opinion was, he was still entitled to it.

[sonicx]

129. convincing others by talking to them is one thing you can do

Or maybe be an activist. Lots of stuff you can do. Passively waiting for people to accept gay rights is silly.

btw, you don't have to take the KKK analogy as far as "killing."

What if someone said "for moral reasons, i don't think blacks and whites should marry"?

Don't give me "he's entitled to his opinion." It pisses me off when people say that becuase it goes without saying. People can have opinions? really? i'm shocked.

People can have opinions and I can bash opinions that are shitty.

"blacks and whites shouldn't get married" : shitty opinion.

one other thing: should segeration been but up to a vote?

[deminflorida]

141. You still cannot limit opinions in a free and democratic society.

So I should become active in limiting the rights of people who have a different opinion about a sexual preference?

Black and White is a physical trait, not a sexual preference.

The same society that allows people to voice their support for Gay rights also allows people who have differing opinions to be heard in that society as well.

[sonicx]

173. Who said anything about limiting opinions?

I don't have the power to do that (you don't either), so stop using that strawman. I do have the power to speak out against bigoted ones. I guess when a bigoted family member starts railing against gays, I should just shut my eyes and fold my arms.

<< Black and White is a physical trait, not a sexual preference. >>

Your point? Sexual orientation is a non-physical trait. You don't get to choose either.

You still didn't answer. What do you say to someone who's against interracial marriage?

hmm...

"Well, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it." :eyes:

[ruggerson]

132. Maybe the beginning is for you to understand

that being gay or straight has absolutely NOTHING to do with "morality."

They are both simply facts of nature. One cannot have a "moral" opinion on the fact of being gay or being straight any more than one can have a "moral" opinion on someone having red hair or being left handed.

You seem to have bought into the *PREMISE* of their argument. Once you understand that their very premise is a total lie, you will start to see how fully twisted their perceptions are.

Peace. Merry Christmas.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

145. Being Left handed is a propensity

Being gay is a propensity as well. When you are left handed you are physically inclined to perform tasks with your left hand instead of the way the majority do. When you are gay, you are physically inclined to be attracted to members of the same sex. They are the same thing. Being gay is about the innate, hard wired orientation, not necessarily the expression of it in actual sex. You can be gay and never once have sex with a person of the same sex; you can be gay and celibate. Being gay is about who you ARE, who you are hardwired to fall in love with, be attracted to, etc. -- not necessarily what you do.

And having sex with your dog is not an apt analogy as your dog is not a consenting adult, nor are there vast amounts of people who are hardwired to be sexually attracted to their pets. If there were, I'm sure we all would have heard about it by now.

[deminflorida]

147. So maybe being a swinger is a propensity as well. If my wife and

I wanted to practice sex with more than one partner, then one could say that we were physically inclined to participate in a relationship that is something more than monogamous, and that would not be illegal. However, if you questioned the majority of society they would probably think that to be immoral and that's their right to believe that way.

Is that a better example for you.

People are entitled to their opinions based on moral issues and you cannot deprive them of it just because it's different than yours.

[ruggerson]

160. Nope

I've never heard of anyone with an innate orientation towards "swinging". That one is about as useful ad the dog analogy.

Again. We're discussing a hotwired, fixed sexual orientation which happens naturally in the human species to a minority of the population.

And my larger point remains - one cannot have "moral" problems with red hair or blue eyes or left handedness, therefore one cannot have "moral" problems with innate sexual orientation.

Of course, there are plenty of people who SAY they have moral problems with homosexuality, but their very PREMISE is wrong, as this is not a moral issue, but rather one of nature and science.

Therefore, rather than say we disagree on morality, it is more accurate to say we disagree as to WHETHER morality even enters this discussion at all. I contend that it does not. If people want to fool themselves into thinking this is about "morality" or "sinning", they are free to think that, and I, and others, are free to tell them that their entire way of looking at this issue is founded in magical thinking and superstition instead of reality.

Capiche?

[deminflorida]

202. To you it may be nature and science. To them it's morality. You'll

never be able to change that. So you'll have to live with it for now.

[ruggerson]

205. Of course we'll be able to change that

The history of civilization shows that civil rights for human beings moves, slowly, in fits and starts, only in one direction: towards freedom - not away from it. At some point in the future, all this hysteria about which gender someone is hotwired by nature to fall in love with will seem as irrational in retrospect as interracial marriage taboos seem to us now.

What rational straight people can do in the meantime is to stand up to people like Reggie White and explain that this is not a "moral" issue, that innate sexuality has nothing to do with being "right" or "wrong" and that gays and lesbians, and gay and lesbian couples, deserve the same rights and responsibilities in society that everyone else has.

This ain't rocket science.

[deminflorida]

228. I'm willing to help with this...but I will never restrict free speech...

I did NOT support the Iraq war and I'm retired military and even supported the gays in the military issue.

I was called unpatriotic by my own family members for my stance on that war, so the freedom of speech issue is a really BIG issue with me.

That's All....

[sonicx]

175. "People are entitled to their opinions based"

Newsflash: Noone wants to restrict speech. People can gay bash, but I will bash right back. Noone's speech is being restricted, so stop with the strawmen.

Again, what do you say to people who "morally objective" to interracial marriage? Do you fold your arms and tap you feet or do you strongly object?

[deminflorida]

201. The issues of same sex marriage and interracial marriage are...

different as night and day at least in the minds of the majority of Americans.

[arwalden]

203. So Their Warped Perception Of Reality Should Be The Baseline?

Give me a fucking break!

[Walt Starr]

224. As were the issues of Poles marrying Irish vs. White marrying Black

50 years ago.

[C.C.D.]

128. A voice of reason! Thank you deminflorida. (nt)

[jobycom]

65. Tragic for football. Thanks, Arwalden and Ratty

for collecting Reggie White's less seemly comments.

My own thoughts on him was that he wasn't really a good man. I watched him play football against the Cowboys a lot, and I watched him melt down a few times. At a time when players needed to be pulling together for a defensive stand, he was tearing his own teammates to shreds for not trying hard enough. I remember him verbally shredding a Cowboy kicker for something minor, though I don't remember what.

He did more than speak out against gays, he went in search of opportunities to attack them in legislatures, on student campuses, and in locker rooms. Jim Rome went off on him often. Once, Reggie had said he would make it his life's mission to stamp out homosexuality in locker rooms. Rome ranted his whole show about why Reggie would choose this as his one "moral" issue-- not drugs, not illegitimate children, not spousal abuse, not any of the other legite problems the NFL was dealing with at the time. He chose to further hatred instead. One wonders how many bigots he convinced to maintain their hatred, rather than changing their minds.

Reggie came across as a nice guy, but a little deeper, he was much more petty and self-absorbed than on the surface.

It's still a tragic day for football, and especially for Green Bay and Philadelphia fans. He was a truly great player on the field, and a tremendous friend to people he liked.

[ruggerson]

162. Funny, how gluttony escaped his short list of sins, eh?

[RevCheesehead]

73. I am saddened by the loss of a good man.

I am also shocked at the comments on this board.

Reggie made mistakes in life, but so have I - and so has everyone else. He was a man passionate about his faith, which was a major factor on and off of the football field.

He had an opposing viewpoint on homosexuality - as do many people throughout the world. But he was not defined by that hatred (at least, not outside the gay community). He will be remembered as one hell of a great football player, and an inspiration to many.

Reggie did a lot of good in his life, and brought hope and faith to millions - especially in the communities where he lived. Many of us are shocked at his sudden death, and are in grief today.

Rest in peace, Reggie. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." I forgive you, Reggie. I love you, and know that you are now indeed free.

[ruggerson]

75. An "Opposing Viewpoint"??

Did Hitler have an "opposing viewpoint" on jews?
Did white southerners have an "opposing viewpoint" on slavery?

This Christian-fascist politically correct doublespeak about "opposing viewpoints" is laughable.

When it comes to freedom and human dignity there are no "opposing viewpoints", there is just hatred and bigotry vs. freedom and truth.

Let's deal with reality here.

[RevCheesehead]

76. Dealing with reality

also means coming to terms with your own hatred and bigotry.

I do not know if Reggie did that in this lifetime or not. But I know hatred when I see it, and I have seen a lot of hatred posted above.

Freedom, on the other hand, comes when one is able to forgive others for their words and deeds. Forgiveness does not mean acceptance - it means letting go of hatred and anger.

I resent being called a Christian-fascist. I am quite liberal, both politically and theologically. You, of course, are free to disagree, but name-calling makes you no better than your perception of Reggie.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

99. Perhaps you can help me, then

I'm not familiar with the good works of Reggie, so, if you can, I'd appreciate your telling me a bit about his positive accomplishments, above and beyond marrying and having children.

Thanks.

[ruggerson]

101. Ah, the old switch and bait

Let's see... people who denounce bigotry and hatred coming in the guise of "Christianity" are somehow "anti-christian."

By this logic, if one had denounced the Inquisition, one would have been accused of not letting Catholics be Catholics! And if one had denounced Hitler's anti-semitism, one would have been accused of being bigoted against Nazis.

The whole "Christian victimization" rightwing whine is a bunch of crap. No one would be fighting against them if they didn't have BIGOTRY as the focus of their political movement.

I don't see gay people trying to pass laws forbidding fundamentalist Christians from getting married or joining the army. I don't see gay people on television telling the world that fundamentalist Christians are "sinners" and "depraved". I don't see gay people trying to ruin Christian's lives and families.

But, fundamentalist Christians are doing ALL THESE THINGS and more to gays. So wake up. No one is directing hatred at fundamentalist Christians. We are FIGHTING the hatred they direct at others.

And I called your remarks "Christian fascist doublespeak", which isn't calling YOU a name, it's merely critical observations about things you have written.

[arwalden]

77. Oh Brother!!

>> I am saddened by the loss of a good man. <<

I'm sure you are. -- But I take issue with your apparently LOW standard for what qualifies someone as being a "good man". He was definitely NOT a "good man".

>> I am also shocked at the comments on this board. <<

Exactly what are you shocked at? Does his death wipe his slate clean? Do you deny his horrid words and deeds? Should we pretend that they didn't exist?

Or does the fact that he died at Christmastime sheild him from criticism and scorn? Please explain to me what you would have us do.

>> Reggie made mistakes in life, but so have I - and so has everyone else. He was a man passionate about his faith, which was a major factor on and off of the football field. <<

Oh please! This nonsense must stop. Please stop minimizing what he did and what the IMPACT of his words were.

These weren't a few "innocent" mistakes. It wasn't as though his words were taken out of context or that he was guilty of speaking without thinking.

THESE ARE THE THINGS HE MEANT! He repeated them, loudly and OFTEN even after being challenged on his bigoted and racist language. He was defiant.

>> He had an opposing viewpoint on homosexuality - as do many people throughout the world. But he was not defined by that hatred (at least, not outside the gay community). <<

And he used his celebrity status to plant the seeds of hatred in the minds of his young fans (and his adult fans). He also used his clebrity status as a bully pulpit to lobby and support public policy and laws that limited the rights of gay Americans, and that DENIED equal rights and protects to gay Americans.

>> He will be remembered as one hell of a great football player, and an inspiration to many. <<

An inspiration of hatred and bigotry, perhaps.

>> Reggie did a lot of good in his life, and brought hope and faith to millions - especially in the communities where he lived. Many of us are shocked at his sudden death, and are in grief today. <<

Ah yes... a few good deeds, some community service and faith-based charity work more than make up for his FAITH-BASED HATRED AND BIGOTRY! :eyes:

As long as the BIGOTRY and RACISM and HOMOPHOBIA is "faith-based" then it's a-okay, right?

What HORSE SHIT!!

>> Rest in peace, Reggie. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." I forgive you, Reggie. I love you, and know that you are now indeed free. <<

He's dead. He doesn't care what you think. He doesn't care what I think.

[RevCheesehead]

79. You are entitled to your opinion.

I am entitled to my opinion.

I've had enough of the hate. You can stay here and bash every post you disagree with, but I've had enough.

[Malikshah]

80. Had enough?

It appears that some haven't had hatred such as that perpetuated by Reggie White affect them.

Sorry. I don't hate the man.

I do, however, have absolutely no respect for him, or for those that will enable his views.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

107. Go Ahead... Run Away From The Truth...

about Reggie White.

Why do you refer to my rebuttals as "bashing"? Why was nobody as concerned about his faith-based bigotry while he was alive as they are about his "memory" at his death?

[Malikshah]

78. Shocked is the operative word

I'm shocked that folks will allow bigotry to go unanswered.
I'm shocked that folks feels its ok to spread hate.
I'm shocked that sports heroes can do no wrong in the eyes of some.
I'm shocked at the fact that there are those who will allow hatred to exist and enable it by supporting those that perpetuate it.

Shame on you all.

[Bluebear]

84. David Duke has an "opposing viewpoint" on race, too

I'm sorry for your grief but am also sorry you minimize the damage he did as well.

[Dinger]

117. Beautiful Post RevCheesehead

:hug: Luv ya

[Ken Burch]

136. He was OK, within his limits as an evangelical and a conservative...

And it is sad to lose anyone that young(OK, with the EXCEPTION of Qosay and Uday, but anybody else).

Weirdest thing was when he did that film where he leaves Wisconsin to work with poor and troubled youth in PORTLAND, OREGON. What was up with THAT? He couldn't find any in Milwaukee?

At least he wasn't your typical wealthy cokehead jock type.

[saigon68]

98. I live here (GREEN BAY) and I have mixed feelings

I think in terms of a legacy for White----- Arwalden is closer to reality.., Than some of the others.

White was an extraordinary player who used the bully pulpit to say some of the stupidest things a human being is capable of expounding.

The Lord I guess (if one believes in that direction) has his work cut out to understand Reggie.

[rooboy]

102. Life expectancy of NFL players isn't very high, is it? n/t

[workout]

121. Irony

Jesus H. Christ! Last night more than 10,000 people perished in the biggest earthquake and tsunamis in recent memory -- and yet the rednecks among us "have tears streaming down their face" (from a tribute posted on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel) because some bigoted, homophobic football player kicked the bucket?

One of the local newscasts here in Green Bay spent 15 minutes -- one half of the show -- offering every (palatable) angle about White's passing -- and then mentioned this natural disater and its repercussions in passing. (They also -- predictably -- glossed over White's outrageous speeches.)

If God is watching down on us, he's shaking his head in disappointment. He's wondering what he can do to reinforce that lesson about not being swayed by icons and false gods.

My only solace? During this evening's newscast another local station, WLUK, closed with a tribute to White, showing footage from his playing days. The music they decided to play in the background was "Measure Of A Man" -- sung by the very gay, very open Elton John.

Something tells me this wasn't a coincidence. Even though it's a FOX station, I might watch this newscast more often. Seems they've got a knack for subtle yet effective political statement.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

133. Thank you for that beautiful post

I am guilty myself of idol worship from time to time; if Neil Young were to die, for example, I would grieve. I'm not sure what that's about, but it seems to be a common human failing.

But today I am so stricken by the immense loss of life in Asia...13,000 people? I don't even think most of us can fathom this many people dying at one time. The devastation and tragedy is almost beyond comprehension.

[Vote4Kerry]

123. Very sad..my thoughts and prayers are with his family n/t

[workout]

125. I suppose he's not responsible for saying this, either...

Five Years Later, School Waiting on White

Associated Press (January 14, 2004)

DENVER -- A low-income elementary school is still waiting for a $50,000 donation promised five years ago by NFL star Reggie White to create a college tuition fund for 85 students.

Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1708287

[Prodemsouth]

127. Your off to a damn good start ! Your two post on this thread have been

the best I have read on this entire thread.
Thanks and Welcome!!

[Divine Discontent]

131. agreed

and in finality for me. The man wasn't perfect, and I don't get to judge his life, nor do I want to, Christ does all that. We're all imperfect. It's just sad he spent SO MUCH ENERGY denouncing homosexuals. TONS OF IT!

His MEMORY is forever tainted because of it. His soul, God bless him, is in Jesus' hands.

I forgive him finally for his hateful zest against the GLBT community, but I don't think he should be praised as a saint as they are showing him in the media, the MSNBC video about made me a tad sick. He was highly thought of til he went on his gay rants...

God bless his family, and I don't believe anything I read on here about him with aids/steroids/500 pounds, I think those are folks who are disgusted that he's getting attention because of what he said for several years against many people and ethnicities....

Sadly, Focus on the Family, and John Ashcroft were some of his biggest backers, what else needs said?

RIP dude....

[WoodrowFan]

182. the check was in the mail!

honest!

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

138. Not true.

This is a disruptor posting this all over LBN. Hit alert and if you are curious, do an advanced search on the user name and you will see what I mean.

[Voltaire99]

139. Fun watching him play. Disgusting watching him "think."

A friend called me today with news of White's death. He was broken-hearted. I understood.

Number 92 was a helluva player. I still remember White one-arming the mountainous Korey Stringer of the Minnesota Vikings onto the Metrodome turf like so much fluff...

But Reggie's worldview was pathetic. He was, like most fundies, hatefully blinded by dogma and superstition. His fans' refusal to face up to that is sad, but typical; sports worship seldom admits of subtlety.

The pity is that White's sports fame gave him a broader platform for his angry, blinkered medievalism. He was a marvelous athlete; he should have been seen and not heard.

[Jawja]

143. That's a great eulogy

you just gave for Reggie White. You've summed it up perfectly.

[Voltaire99]

176. Thanks, Jawja. (n/t)

[Texas Transie]

144. a dead homophobe

He shouldnm't have said those things about blacks and hispanics and asians and gays. that was a stupid thing to say.

[logiccommands]

150. I hope that I am not only remembered

for all of the stupid things that I have said.

Reggie White is remembered my the folks who knew him as a good and noble man. That’s all that counts.

[bobbyboucher]

151. Noble?

good one.

[TankLV]

155. Unless you spent countless hours on your soapbox as he did, don't worry.

I know I have nothing to worry about. I've NEVER and WILL NEVER do anything that even approaches the loathsome action of this vile man.

Great football hero my ass.

I will judge him on his actions - and justly condemn him for them.

The world would have been a lot better off if he wasn't born.

[seekinguniqueness]

156. So much hate...

Whew...!!!

and I thought this was a progressive board

[ruggerson]

161. The only hate here

is that which was evidenced by Reggie White during his time here on earth.

The folks here are calling to task those that would mistakenly elevate to hero status a man who did great harm to other human beings and their families.

I don't wish him or his wife or his children ill will. Not in the least. I wish them good will and his soul good will.

How sad that he didn't evince similar good will towards gays and lesbians while he was alive.

[Walt Starr]

148. I won't be mourning

No reason to mourn his passing from where I sit.

[davidinalameda]

149. check out this column

http://www.outsports.com/nfl/2004/1226white.htm

Not So Sad Reggie White is Dead

Outsports is a site for GLBT sports fans and the admins over there make it a point to keep track of the homophobic comments coming from sports figures.

I agree--I am not sorry to see another voice of hate removed from this world

[Forkboy]

154. buh bye

one less dumbass.

[ekhunter]

163. what a sad day for the nfl family.

my prayers go out to his family. he truly will be missed by many.

[SnowBack]

171. He'll be missed by many BIGOTS...

and anti-Gay apologists...

[ekhunter]

192. he will also be missed by many who watched him suit up every

sunday and gave it his all on the field. he was one of the greatest defensive players in the nfl. in terms of the game he will be truly missed.

[Forkboy]

193. well in terms of the game OJ is missed

big whoop :shrug:

[jonnyblitz]

196. and a happy day for many more. n/t

[traco]

174. He died because he suffered from Sleep Apnea

untreated sleep apnea led to him suffering a heart attack

[Born Free]

200. Is that confirmed?

Most ignorant people don't take sleep apnea seriously, they think it's just a lack of sleep and some snoring. Even though every one at the hospital was informed of my condition prior to my 1ST surgery attempt they decided they could knock me out completely then intubate me. After 45 minutes of probing and forcing air into me they decided it was better to wake me and I woke up unable to breath because of the trauma caused to my throat to swell shut. There I was with a room full of doctors staring at me wondering why I was choking, I was flopping around like a fish out of water, grabbed the nurse and shook her trying to get them to do something eventually I was out again and woke up in recovery with a device in my throat to hold it open so I could breath - it was painful. The following week I had an anesthesiologist that knew something about dealing with severe sleep apnea and he did it right the first time and all went well.

[NJmaverick]

194. White was a false man of god

He misused his celebrity status to preach hate, bigotry and intolerance. While it may be harsh, the world is a better place with out him.

Note- While he offered a lame apology to the various ethnic groups he offended with his bigotry, he NEVER apologized for the slander and attacks he launched against gays.

[Akbar]

195. Another Victim of the Conservative Death-Style (eom)

[workout]

198. Calling a Spade a Spade

It's sad when someone dies young. It's also sad people feel pressured to review his life in an insincere and dishonest manner.

The fact is: when he was alive, White was cruelly outspoken about his homophobia and malice toward gay people. But a lot of that is being overlooked by people who want to remember him solely as a "compassionate minister" and football hero.

It's heartening, though -- because if these folks didn't think there was something wrong with the things Reggie said and felt, they wouldn't try to divorce his memory from them, would they?

[KSAtheist]

208. "Calling a Spade a Spade"

In hindsight, you probably shouldn't have capitalized spade.

[workout]

210. I see your point.

Oops -- I sincerely didn't mean that. Don't worry -- I'll offer an insincere apology, under my breath, six years from now.

:)

[NashVegas]

199. Breaking: Reggie White Still Dead

moving to GD.

[workout]

204. Misplaced Priorities

The latest controversy to surface -- according to Green Bay TV station WLUK -- is that the Green Bay Packers organization is insisting flags around Lambeau Field be flown at half mast to honor Reggie White's passing. Veterans are taking great offense, since this type of display is usually reserved for honoring government figures or people lost to war. In the least, they say, flying flags at half mast is usually suggested by governmental order -- but no one, including Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle -- thinks it's appropriate for White.

I have to say -- it does trivialize the symbolism of the gesture if we start using it when athletes pass away. Even some of you "Reggie Is God" folks would have to agree.

Why would we offer so much pomp and circumstance to a football player -- yet continue to live unphased by the soldiers who die everyday in service of our country?

(It should be added that Lambeau Field is directly adjacent to a veteran's monument in Green Bay.)

[rman]

209. great. more distraction.

-

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[workout]

212. A Glimmer of Understanding

Chimp --

I write this to you with the most open of hearts.

The rage you feel from reading what people have said? I have to believe it is *exactly* what people felt when they heard the things Reggie said.

I think there's room for understanding from every angle. Now you have something to compare to.

With all due respect --

[Walt Starr]

213. I will never stand in judgement before YOUR God

But Reggie White has a lot in common with Fred Phelps.

[Chimpanzee]

218. I'm an agnostic

[Behind the Aegis]

214. And you added to it

I hope you hate-filled pea-brains get what's comming to you one day. Sounds pretty vile and hateful to me. Have fun rotting in hell. Well, I guess this isn't vile nor hate-filled, is it? :eyes:

I can't say I agree with everything written here, but as you can see, many of us will not sit idly by while a homophobe gets a free pass.

[Walt Starr]

216. Notice the judegement, too

Have fun rotting in hell.

That is judging us which, if one were to actually BELIEVE what is written in the Bible, would be a heresy.

[Chimpanzee]

219. And nobody here was judging Reggie?

[Walt Starr]

222. Point is that getting judgemental about us being judgemental

is hypocritical.

[jonnyblitz]

230. oooh the irony!!!

:crazy:

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chimpanzee]

217. Yes I am hate-filled - by you hate-mongers

I am normally a rational man of good disposition, but I couldn't help giving you back some of your own medicine. I have no opinion on homosexuality - it's none of my godammed business. I will vote for the equal rights of all Americans, regardless of race, creed, etc., including sexual orientation. I just have a problem with those that read something Reggie White said 6-7 years ago, and use that to judge and basically condem him to purgatory. Alot of personal transformation could have happened to Reggie after that, and there are indications of that. If you don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt, fine, but please don't condem the man to eternal hell for eternity when you don't know what his heart was like when he died. That's all I'm asking.

[SnowBack]

220. How about standing back and thinking WHY we're upset....

It's too bad that White's defenders can't stand back for a minute and think why this issue is so emotional to us Gay people.... Homophobia and hate is directed at us on a daily basis from the President on down...

People have been using one sentence published by a sports writer to show his supposed "conversion" to tolerance. You're telling us we're "judging" him... But where is the outcry when people judge US on a daily basis? When we're fired, spat at, insulted, not allowed to immigrate, beaten, threatened or killed?

I can't speak for everyone who responded, but I said nothing about the guy going to hell or purgatory or anywhere else..

However, we were told it was "improper" to say anything about White because he was dead... Insulting him was like "spitting on his grave". Calling him a bigot was "not appropriate", because maybe he "changed"... There are PAGES of quotes from him insulting Gay people, but none of that matters since everyone has that one sentence (which isn't even a direct quote) to cling to like a life raft...

Unfortunately, the straight people in this thread are more interested in defending a dead sports star than living Gays and Lesbians.

[Chimpanzee]

221. I can walk and chew gum at the same time

I will defend gay people when necessary. I just happened to find it necessary to defend Reggie NOW because he is the one being attacked in this thread, not gays.

[arwalden]

226. Oh Brother!

:eyes:

He's DEAD! He doesn't care! Why should you want to defend a bigot?

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

232. Chimpanzee...What Does He Care? He's DEAD!

You say you don't defend bigots, yet... there you are... defending a bigot. Albeit a DEAD one... you're defending it. Feel free to respect a corpse that didn't do anything to deserve respect when it was alive. The corpse cares nothing about any compassion you want to give it.

-- Allen

[Bluebear]

223. Good heavens, he's been exhumed more here than Lizzie Borden's parents

ENOUGH!!!!!

Thank you. :)

[Karenina]

225. 222 posts

about a sports figure. Likely 250,000 DEAD in a natural disaster, another 250,000 in an illegal military invasion and Amurikka been taken over by scum. :freak:

[SnowBack]

227. Actually, it's 222 posts about people defending anti-Gay hate...

eom