Who should Gore of chosen as VP?

[ButterflyBlood]

I think it's pretty much unanimous that he made one of the worst VP picks in history.

If he wanted to maximize Jewish turnout (which was the purpose of Holy Joe), then he should've went with Wellstone or Feingold, who would also bring out more progressive voters, and take a few votes away that would've went to Nader (whereareas Holy Joe sent a few votes toward Nader). And to keep Florida in far less stealable margin, it would've made more sense to go with Graham. Considering who he could've picked why he went with Holy Joe still has me perplexed.

[Must_B_Free]

1. Kerry

North and south thing going on.

I love Kerry for his commitment to peace, even though he voted for the war.

[wuushew]

6. There was no southern component, Gore lost TN

Two possibilities there

(A)Not really a southern boy, more like a beltway insider

(B)Gore is going to grab your guns (is this a myth or substantiated in polling data somewhere?)

[Must_B_Free]

8. Gore is from Tenessee

He is a southerner.

Doesn't matter that they bought Bushes phony "texas" image lies instead of Gore. That doesn't change the fact that Gore is a southerner.

[Must_B_Free]

9. Gore is from Tenessee

He is a southerner.

Doesn't matter that they bought Bushes phony "texas" image lies instead of Gore. That doesn't change the fact that Gore is a southerner.

[AP]

12. It was bad Gore strategy.

Gore ignored several southern states in which he had a chance (AR, TN, specifically) to spend the last three weeks flying back and forth between FL and NH (was it), and he tailored his entire campaign to winning FL by ONLY talking about a prescription drug plan during that time period.

Gore must have seen polling that showed him winning FL's 24 (?) electoral votes, and sacrificed the other close southern states by not campaigning in them and by not having a message which appealed to them (rememger "it's the economy, stupid" -- that wasn't just for FL or just for NY, it worked everywhere.)

[MisterP]

21. there's reason to suspect he actually might not have,

there's the NRA hysteria, and his leaving the South till a bit late

[wuushew]

2. From a pratical standpoint he should of picked Graham

it is also possible Gephardt would brought MO into play which would have also won the electoral college.

[AP]

15. Gore should have picked a strategy which didn't hinge on FL

Why put all your eggs in a basket controlled by your opponent's brother?

Gore picked Lieberman to win FL. If Bob Graham had been governor of FL it would have a brilliant selection. In retrospect, it was stupid.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. why? He won Florida...he only lost the court case

and that is partly because of lack of support from the party....for instance Kerry.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Gore made it clear he would not pick Lieberman again. Should we really hold him responsible for what a snake Lieberman turned out to be?

[poskonig]

3. Dick Durbin.

Gore needed to frame the debate during the campaign, but instead was completely reactive. The choice of LIEberman reflects this fact, as it was a reaction against impeachment.

I would have linked Gore directly with Clinton and run on prosperity. Durbin has a plain demeanor which would have made Gore look a little more dynamic. Plus Durbin is a sharp debater, and seems like a regular guy, an image Gore's campaign could have used more of.

"Average Americans for Prosperity." or something like that.

[FauxNewsBlues]

4. The BJ factor

Holy Joe was Gore's way of saying he wasn't going to get a hummer in the oval office. It was a stupid strategy to run away from Clinton's record, and this was part of it.

Even during the height of impeachment, Clinton was popular in this country. Gore convinced himself that the right wingers screaming on talk radio had the pulse of the country, so he needed "Holy Joe" to prove that he wasn't going to get some on the side.

It should have been a big state that was in play. If he wanted a right wing quasi democrat, he should have gone with Zell Miller anyways, instead of Lieberman from Conneticut. Graham in Florida would have been a good choice electorally. Gephardt would have been good to keep Missouri out of play, and Gore could have cut spending in Missouri and headed to Florida. There was simply no good reason to pick Joe Lieberman. He brought no state with him, and he pissed the base off.

[AP]

5. His second choice was Edwards. Let's imagine an Edwards v Cheney debate.

Remember when Cheney said (paraphrasing) "I've never gotten anything from the government"? Lieberman laughed. He thought that was funny. I was at home screaming "this guy got everything he ever made by ripping off taxpayers -- his companies made millions off of government contracts he got because of connections, and not because his company was bringing any real value to society." He's STILL fucking doing this.

I wonder if Edwards, a product of public schools all his life who really got everything he earned by hard work AND with the help of the government, would have thought Cheney's little fucking joke was so fucking funny.

Doubt it.

[AP]

7. I wonder if...

Remember when Lieberman said that Gore wasn't going to challenge the military ballots which didn't have date stamps (military ballots don't need stamps, but the law clearly stated that they needed to be date stamped, or franked, or whatever that's called). Well, the Gore camp couldn't believe he said that on national TV because they had been planning to challenge those ballots.

I wonder if Edwards would have made that same mistake (and I'm going to presume that it was a mistake).

[Flying_Pig]

34. When that happened....

I put on my tinfoil hat, and became convinced that Lieberman was a GOP mole, sent in to destroy Al's campaign, ...and he performed exactly the function they wanted him to. Liberman's actions since, have only reinforced and hardened my distrust.

[AP]

36. You know, Gore isn't totally free from blame either.

Have your read "Too Close To Call"?

Gore made the wrong choice of strategy at almost every turn. He was told the morning after the election by a coupld of lawyers who were experts at recount strategy that the only way he'd win was to ask for a state-wide recount. He ignored that strategy. When the consortium finally released their datat, it turned out that the experts were right.

Also, I have NEVER seen Gore more compelling, comfortable and unstilted as when he finally gave his concession speech in December.

The first thing that came out of my mouth after I saw that was, 'shit, if he had acted that naturally during the campaign, he would have won in a landslide."

Why the hell did he seem so relieved when it was over?

[Cheswick2.0]

40. such bullshit AP

Toobin was full of shit in that book, why are you repeating his lies?

He did ask for a state wide recount. I heard him say it several times. Florida law didn't give him that option unless the other candidate agreed or the governor or secretary of state. What was the chance of that happening? His only recourse was to do it the way he did.

[poskonig]

10. I think you may be right.

Edwards does sound like the logical VP pick for Gore, not Lieberman.

[IndianaGreen]

37. If Edwards was Gore's second choice, he should have picked him

Edwards would have eaten Cheney alive in the debates!

I think Bob Graham would have been preferable!

[Cha]

11. Bob Graham!

[jos]

22. Yes

With Graham, he would have won Florida without a dispute. Graham also might have helped him in West Virginia and Tennessee.

[barbaraann]

13. Charlie Rangel maybe

Can't you just see him rolling his eyes at Cheney and blasting him off the planet as the profiteer he is?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Do you mean who should he HAVE chosen?

I thought you were a college student.

[ButterflyBlood]

17. not an English major however

that was never my strongest class in high school either.

[wuushew]

19. Is the tense past perfect?

perfect tenses. The perfect tenses show completed state or action. The present perfect is formed with has or have and a past participle. The past perfect, also called the pluperfect, requires had and a past participle. The future perfect uses will have or shall have and a past participle.


Tense Uses Examples
Present Perfect state or action that occurred in the past and may continue to the present He has walked in the park. I have lived in Arizona all my life.
Past Perfect (Pluperfect) state or action that occurred before He had walked in the park that morning. I had lived in Arizona before moving to Oregon.
Future Perfect state or action that will occur before something else in the future He will have walked in the park by the time we arrive. Come March, I will have lived in Arizona for two years.

http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/068.html

[RobertFrancisK]

16. For the first month, Joe seemed like a good pick

He helped Gore set himself apart from Clinton's scandals a bit, or at least made it obvious that he wanted to be seperated from them. And truly, I was impressed by Lieberman at first. He was exciting people and Gore's campaign had been dragging a bit. He was the first Jewish VP nominee, and that was pretty cool, and he had a decent civil rights record.
But after about a month, he just stopped campaigning. He managed to lose the debates to Dick Cheney, which I didn't even think could be done, Dick is so lifeless. And he didn't seem to care about the whole Florida debacle.
After 2000, I realized what Lieberman was truly made off. I'll never forgive him for not conducting an extensive investigation into the WH involvement in the Enron scandal with the Gov Affairs committee he was chair of.
Now Feingold and Wellstone were both considered men of integrity aswell. Feingold also had bipartisan appeal, because he wsa McCain's partner in the campaign reform battle, so the democrats could have gotten some of McCain's momentum brought their way. And he was a solid liberal. I personally think Feingold would have been the best pick. Wellstone was incredible too, but he may have been seen as too liberal. Maybe not though, he was such a great guy he could've converted the public. But if Gore had gone with Feingold, I think he would've won the election by a confortable margin. (well, confortable meaning enough to not require a recount, it still would've been really close)

[DemPopulist]

18. Edwards

Gore/Edwards would've won in a landslide. The Republicans would've tried to play the "inexperienced pretty-boy" card but Gore could've said, "Hey, your father picked Dan Quayle." Harkin or Kerry would've been good choices as well, maybe better than Edwards if you're just talking about shoring up the progressive vote. There was also some talk about Gore/Gephardt, which would've been great but Dick still had a shot at Speaker of the House back then.

I don't think Lieberman was picked to shore up the Jewish vote by the way. I think that was one of the ancillary benefits. I think there were a couple of purposes besides that:

1) To innoculate Gore on the "moral" question and enhance his press relations (The media took out it's anti-Clinton vendetta on Gore but liked Lieberman as one of the few honest, bipartisan men in Washington...groan.)

2) To reassure the DLC while Gore went populist.

3) To show that Gore could make a bold, politically risky choice and wasn't the overly calculating opportunist the media made him out to be...which it did show (unfortunately).

4) As hard as it may be to accept this now, Lieberman is actually a very likeable guy when he's not attacking other Democrats or being a corporate toady. He and Gore had known each other for a while; their families were close. I think there was some rapport there (though now probably very strained).

Beyond all that, I think Lieberman is the type of politician who is naturally "vice-presidential." That's different than Gore even, who was a great Veep but is naturally presidential. Probably some of the others wouldn't have handled being second-stringers as well.

[RogueTrooper]

20. Oprah Winfrey was my choice

Gore\Winfrey. It would have been a landslide.

And the Winfrey - Cheney debate. :evilgrin:

[TheYellowDog]

23. Wow, you sure do hate Lieberman

I have not seen one thread in the past few days from you that has not been a Lieberman bashing thread. I personally think it would be funny if Lieberman got the nomination and then you had to stop attacking him, per DU rules.

[ButterflyBlood]

24. oh yes, i would

also unlike many here, I have said I would vote for Lieberman if he gets the nomination (of course I would say his chances are about equal to LaRouche's, so I'm not worried)

[TheYellowDog]

28. His chances are equal to LaRouche's?

How about this? Kucinich's chances are equal to LaRouche's. :) Lieberman's chances are about as good as Kerry or Gephardt's right now, which is still pretty damned good.

[ButterflyBlood]

33. exaggeration, but I still think he's screwed

the only reason he's doing good at all in the polls now is because of name recognition, and even after that he's losing now. He's getting clobbered in Iowa and NH. Most liberal Democrats, who are the ones who vote in the primaries, really hate him (I'm not the only one here who does, look around.) His fundraising is going poorly, in fact, I think LaRouche has more money.

[wuushew]

25. I don't think this is a bashing thread

This is a legitimate line of inquiry on how the 2000 election could have differed.

[Yupster]

26. Diane Feinstein

was ny choice

[ButterflyBlood]

27. another DINO who wouldn't help the ticket much

blah

[TheYellowDog]

29. Feinstein is not a DINO

Unless you want to count Hilary Clinton and Chuck Schumer as DINOs too, since all 3 have almost the exact same records from interest groups. Maybe living in North Dakota warped your view of what a Democrat is.

[ButterflyBlood]

32. Clinton and Schumer didn't vote for the first Bush tax cut for the rich

nor are they advocating school vouchers now. The same also applies to Conrad and Dorgan for that matter.

[TheYellowDog]

35. Why do you have to distort facts?

LIEBERMAN did NOT vote for the first Bush tax cut. He didn't vote for the 2nd Bush tax cut either. Stop distorting facts, Butterfly.

[ButterflyBlood]

38. I never said Lieberman did

I said Feinstein did. She voted for the first one.

[VOX]

30. Gore almost picked John Edwards as his running mate in 2000...

Can't help but wonder how things might have turned out if he had,

[PAMod]

31. I swear to God, you can ask my wife I said Howard Dean in 2000

I had seen him a couple of times on McNeil/Lehrer and maybe some of the Sunday programs and liked his serious demeanor (though he was much calmer then). I liked that he was a young Governor and an M.D. and I liked that he had none of the goofiness that Gore was perceived (rightly or wrongly) to have.