Just read that average income in US is $17/hr

[MaryH]

That is about $36,000 a year. But people are having to make it stretch further all of the time. Insurance keeps going up and there are taxes that are going up (non-federal like property taxes or sale's taxes).

But you know what I have noticed (I do real estate loans so I see lots and lots of credit stuff for a lot of people) is that people seem to always buy the very most house they can qualify for. A lot of these people are pretty young kids who don't have any idea how much all the other stuff in their life will cost. Like having to replace the roof or the furnace. Like the cost of children getting sick.

And most people I see really have a lot of credit card debt and most generally pay about the minimum payment so the debt just continues to increase.

And despite all of this - most people are now expected to save enough so that they can make it through a disaster. And many people are also supposed to save enough for their retirement.

I have a feeling that the retirement money will just have to wait. And when these people really need it, it won't be there.

[patdem]

1. Does that include the top 1% and the bottom 1%, I bet if you elimnate

both those ends of the spectrum the average will be alot less than that! :shrug:

[Warpy]

5. not only that, but the real poverty level is $36,000

a year for a family of four.

Let me explain. The current formula says a family spends 1/3 of its income on food and relies on a market basket of food to determine the poverty level, which is officially at $18,000 for a family of four.

The problem is that due to inflation in housing and health costs, most families spend only 1/6 of their income on food. That means the actual poverty level is twice what Uncle Sugar says it is, or $36,000 a year.

That means that more than half of the population of this country is now trying to survive under the real poverty level.

Most of these families have run up credit card debt because their wages are simply not sufficient to maintain their families' need for clothing, medical care and other items. We're swimming in debt because our wages have not been sufficient to feed, clothe and shelter us.

[WMliberal]

20. exactly what I thought. Eliminate the top 1% and it probably

drops the figure a couple of dollars per hour. I'm just trying to imagine $17/hour jobs that are in THAT kind of an abundance and not getting very far. In fact, the closest thing in large enough numbers would be the unionized manufacturing sector that is being targeted by the * cronies for offshoring.

[Worst Username Ever]

2. Used to to second mortagages, then investments, not I am in compliace

and it never fails, people in their 50's rarely have more than 100K in their 401K/IRA. People in their 30's and 40's rarely seem to have more than 10-50,000. Sad. But when it comes to a house and a car payment, they are through the roof. Personally, I think it has to come down to personal responsibility to choose a retirement fund over a car, but we are in a society of people keeping up with the Joneses. It is really too bad.

[MaryH]

4. I don't think we could make it without a car here in the Midwest

There is no bus service to speak of. No one would be able to make it to work.

But I do think that people could cut back on some things - like all of the costly electrical gadgets. I don't know how much that would help.

We are all really in the squeeze, aren't we?

[jdj]

10. I'm gonna get a GREASE CAR!

This is my new goal! You get a diesel car, get a converter kit for $1000 bucks, get a mechanic to install it and get your vegetable oil free from Chinese restaurants. You still need a tad of diesel to fire up the engine, but once you get it going, viola! you've got yourself a cheap form of transportation!

I know damn well I could live on $17/hr. If only.

[Worst Username Ever]

16. I heard this from somewhere.

Some lady has one, and literally gets her fuel for free from the fryers of restaurants. They don't have to pay for grease disposal, she doesn't have to pay for fuel. Awesome.

[MaryH]

Did you see the new car Chrysler is coming out with?

2006 - little tiny car - four feet shorter than the mini - and gets 60 mpg. But only good for in city driving. It doesn't go very fast. I think it has something like a lawnmower motor. Would be fun to own. I think they will be about $11,000.

[pdxmom]

31. Go full electric

We have a fully electric car. An old Sprint, fully converted. It's perfect for short distance and city driving. And the cost to charge it up barely impact my electric bill. Fortunately, living around Portland, there are charging stations, so it's convenient.

[Worst Username Ever]

14. I live in Minnesota. You don't need a car payment to have a car.

Mine is probably worth 500 dollars, to be honest. But I have more assets socked away than most other 28 year olds I know, and am better prepared for the situations discussed in the original post.

My point is that being prepared SHOULD take a higher priority than having nice things which require high payments/low savings. Unfortunately for most people, it does not.

[jdj]

18. it's not just "a car". It's 1/3 to 1/2 of a house.

The "automobile" is without a doubt the biggest scam ever visited upon American people and the world in general. Got you a car so now you can be forced to drive 30 to 60 miles away from where you live every day to pay for that car. And it can't just be a beater, it has to be a $30,000 dick on wheels with all the bells and whistles,
'cause people may never see where you live, but they sure as hell will need to be impressed by your ride to wage-slavery.

It is just a horrible thing what is going on with cars in this country, not even to mention the destruction of nature for roads and pollution and all the other crap you gotta have. Even if it's paid for,there's taxes and insurance and gas and inspection ($35.00 in NC, up from $7.50 in just a decade) and liscense plates and oil changes and tires and not to even mention repairs. I keep waiting for people to WAKE UP from what is being done to them and to this country by this invention...it's a necessary evil, but it shouldn't be allowed to bankrupt most normal earning folks.

[Worst Username Ever]

21. Well said

I was just running some numbers. Although it is true I need a car to get to work, I figure by paying cash for my stupid rusty 1995 Saturn (used), I avoided a car payment as well as the full-coverage insurance necessary for a new car with a loan on it. I have had the car for over 5 years, so if a car payment is like $350 a month, that alone is 21,000 I have NOT spent on the damn thing. Add to that an extra 100 a month for full-coverage insurance which I do not pay, and that is another 6000 I have not paid on it. Total is 27,000 in my pocket just because I did not by a "dick on wheels" (excellent phrase). Granted, I have probably had 3000 in repairs, plus I had to pay 2000 to get the damn thing, but I still come out ahead by 23,000. To THINK the amount Americans could be saving.

[mitchum]

26. Agree with every bit of your post, my friend

I really despise the things. They are a "manufactured necessity" that preys on logistical, economic, and psychological "need"

[MaryH]

19. What I see is that most people don't have any retirement

beside their 401K. And we saw what happened to those accounts when the bottom fell out of the stock market. Lots of older people I knew who had planned to retire just kept on working.

People shouldn't have to keep working into their 70's in order to survive!

And physically it is impossible for a lot of people to work that long. So what are all these millions of people going to do?

I guess we could wander out onto and ice flow - but there probably won't be any iceflows by then

[Worst Username Ever]

23. Oh, and

I remember talking to a 19 year old who wanted a car loan or something. He refused to put money in his 401K because of what happend to the 1500 dollars he had in it when the market tanked (it turned into.. gasp... 900 dollars). He was not financially savy enough to realize that he is 19 YEARS OLD and 401K is pretty much the best thing available to workers. *sigh.* Hope he can live on 1/2 SSI benefits when he is 70 years old.

[MaryH]

24. We may have to go to living in group homes

Would be a lot better than nursing homes.

[shrike]

28. It'll be that way soon, trust me

If HSAs (Healthcare Savings Accounts) become commonplace, we'll all be driving beaters.

[Solon]

3. Median is closer to a little over half that...

Average means that they will factor one Multi-Billionare into it and the entire spectrum is skewed. Most people in this country live at the borderline between poverty and barely middle class. Also, I hate this type of shit because 17 dollars an hour would go a LONG way around here, but in New York City, its practically poverty level. Its a useless number to begin with.

[Union Thug]

6. Factor in Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and pals..

and that offsets the average a just a wee bit... much more so, I would think, than those making minimum wage. But I'm certainly not an expert...

[noamnety]

15. That's just what I was figuring

Bill Gates (if the website I checked was at all accurate) makes $177,556 an hour.

So him and 14,983 people making minimum wage average out to $17 an hour. On average, they make $36,000 a year ... but that's not much consolation to the 14,983 people making $5.15 an hour, is it?

[donsu]

7. 17 an hr. is hard to believe

I'd bet it really is less.

[jdj]

8. could be the median?

I have NEVER made this, at 36 yrs old.

[InvisibleBallots]

9. Average, not Median

One guy making a million dollars, one guy making one dollar - average wage? $500,000! :eyes:

[AllegroRondo]

12. True - median is just above $30K

and has been dropping for the last 3 years

[jdj]

13. but it's not one to one.

it's one guy making a million and a million making $1.

[WMliberal]

22. actually it's higher. $500,000 and fifty cents!!

:silly:

[TexasBushwhacker]

11. What's your source?

I ask because that sounds pretty close to what I read was the median HOUSEHOLD income for the United States ($43K), and of course many if not most of those are two earner families:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/income03/statemhi.html

The mean (average) household income is $59K, but the average can really be skewed by the very high income households. The funny, or not so funny, thing is, they lump households with over $100K in income all together and they amount for the top 15%. Now there are plenty of people I know making that or more, who only consider themselves "middle class" and vote Republican.

[MaryH]

17. Its in the Washington Post this morning

AVerage Watge Earners Fall Behind
http://www.washingtonpost.com

Seems to me like the average wage-earner has been falling behind for many years now.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. I remember reading in the mid '80s that it was $17 an hr.

Has it really not gone up at all?

[pdxmom]

30. I can only speak in personal terms

But I know that our personal income has dropped, in relation to inflation, in the past 10 years. My husband's company hasn't provided an increase in almost 5 years, and I'm still sitting at the same salary I was getting 3 years ago. Meanwhile, the costs out there keep rising.

[shrike]

27. People are kind of brainwashed into that kind of thinking

"Buy the most house you can afford." That's drummed into us by newspaper articles, ads, et. al. I didn't got that route, but plenty of other people do.

And yes, you're right -- they want us to save for our retirement, save for our own health care, save for emergencies. Where is this money supposed to come from?

It's the makings of a permanent underclass.

[RebelOne]

29. Oh really, I wish my salary was $17 an hour.

Mine is below that and according to my job description, it should double $17 an hour. I have great benefits, which sort of evens it out.