Some tinfoil to chew on: Green lasers directed at commercial planes. WTF?

[RandomKoolzip]

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/laser.plane/

Just what do you suppose is going on here? I've heard on the news about this to days running. Is this terrorism? Kids screwing around?

Someone is shooting green lasers into the cockpits of commercial airliners shortly after takeoff; that's what's discussed in the article, if you don't feel like giving CNN's website extra hits (don't blame ya.)

Anyways, what's the DU take on this?

[slor]

1. Has cheney, and the rest of the...

space alien lizards of this administration been playing with their death rays again?

[MaryH]

4. The lasers were red outside of Cleveland

I hope this is just a joke. But I think it said that it would take a pretty powerful laser to hit a plane going 300 mph and 8500 fit off the ground. Doesn't really sound like kids goofing around.

I swear, I am scared to death to fly anymore. And just when I start to feel better about it something like this just sets me off again.

[salin]

7. are there any military bases, or military tied industries

in the area? Could they be testing new technology?

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. A couple thoughts

I heard this story a few weeks ago so I would suspect these latest incidents are copycats.

I also wonder if it is even true. It's just a bit hard ot believe, IMO.

[Newsjock]

3. It's all "the government said"

... with no independent confirmation. Not a single passenger has come forward to say that "green laser beams" were seen outside a plane's window. Not a single pilot has spoken to the media (that I know of).

I don't believe it's true for a second. It's just the latest fear-mongering.

[Kingshakabobo]

13. There was a pilot on MSNBC last night.

He was the president of some pilot's union/organization. The name of the organization had "security" in the title. Anyway, I was a little:toast: last night so I don't remember the name of the organization. (It wasn't the Airline Pilot's Assoc.)

He seemed to be taking the threat seriously........but I can't find any links by Goggling. hmmmm I'll keep looking.

[burn the bush]

5. my first thought is that it is scare tactic used to promote some new HLS

law designed to take away more of our rights.

[RandomKoolzip]

6. Sounds plausible.

Plus, who outside of well-funded scientists has access to lasers powerful enough to shoot into a plane's cockpit?

[pdxmom]

8. It's possible, but not probable

My husband has worked with lasers for years. There are commercial lasers out there that would do the job, and there is no regulation of who can buy them, etc. So theoretically, it's possible that anyone could get a hold of a laser to do this.

His questions about this story has to do with the geometry of actually being able to do this. Lasers are straight line. He doesn't see how it would be possible, without a lot of height, for the angle to be correct to actually get a laser into a cockpit.

[mark11727]

10. Wasn't there a recent article how lasers could muck up the avionics?

[Solon]

21. The only way that would be possible is to use a laser powerful enough...

to cut through the fuselage, or bypass it entirely. I don't think any are on the market, and the ones used for shows/concerts/clubs are not powerful enough to do that. You could overload them to the point of shorting out and not cause harm to any aircraft.

[RafterMan]

14. How would you power up a commercial laser

right next to an airstrip? How would you manage to aim it well enough for the beam to stay on a moving target long enough for anyone to notice?

And you're right about the angle to to cockpit.

[pdxmom]

16. Good points

Though my laser guru says that the power wouldn't be too much of an issue, the aiming problem would be more difficult to overcome. Evidently, there are some laser products out there that could be powered by a generator, and the whole deal could easily fit into a van.

As for the aim, he says that it would probably be a hit or miss proposition, unless the person knew the exact course and trajectory. While the possibility exists, the knowledge to make it happen would be extensive.

[Bronco69]

9. One would have to be at the same level as the plane or higher

in order to shoot anything into the window. If that plane was at 8500 ft. (a mile and a half in the air) there is no way you could shoot a laser from the ground up. I say it's just more fearmongering.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. Not necessarily

Think about it this way:
The pilot can see the ground from the cockpit. Not the ground directly below them, but certainly the ground a few miles out in front of them. Theoretically, a laser that was placed somewhere within their line of sight to the ground could go straight back up that line of sight into the cockpit. Since flight patterns for major airports are very tightly controlled, figuring out where to put the laser is simply a matter of undertsanding the runway approaches for the airport.

The intriuging thing in all this is that a laser that could stay with the plane for several seconds would have to have some sort aiming system designed for tracking moving objects. The lasers are really easy to come by. I know some people who have them (construction industry folks and Burning Man attendees.) but I don't know how hard it is to get the aiming system, or to build one yourself.

[soothsayer]

12. sounds like kids at rock concerts (or movies) aiming laser pointers

at the rock stars, screen, etc.

Sounds like the stupidest waste of time of a high powered laser with great aim, unless you are using it to target a missile, in which case why shoot it at the pilot's face?

Something awfully goofy going on here, if anything is actually goint on.

[Occulus]

15. big dose of fear for pilots

Someone out there has tracking systems and inclination to use them to fire lasers at commercial jets. A tracking system seems to be the only way a laser could shine into a cockpit for any appreciable length of time.

You don't spend this much without it being directed to a purpose. This is somewhat worrisome.

[thedevilinthedetails]

17. Yeah, I don't think this is a bunch of kids doing this

it's a very sophisticated thing to track the planes like they are. Of course there could now be copycat attempts, or it could be a legitimate attempt at an attack on our planes again.

I hope that we are not too jaded by things to take a real threat seriously when it happens.

We all tend to think that "terrorism" is 9/11 like in it's scope when in fact some terrorists shining these lasers into cockpits knowing that they probably won't take the plane down is terrorism, can lead to mass hysteria about flying perhaps, cause American's to panic and viola, they have "terrorized" us. And that has happened so far, people are talking about this and people are worried about it - and the timing is perfect, right before everyone flies home after the holidays.

I have not doubt that Al-Qaida has planted tons of misinformation out there about what kind of attacks they are going to take on us, all with the intention of keeping us from finding out what their truly devestating plans are and at the same time keeping us terrorized.

For the most part I don't buy all the homeland security manipulation of threat levels for political purposes

[Goose1963]

18. Fear mongering

Does anybody get this take on news reports like this?
In my mind I paraphrase Fox news as saying:

"EVEN THE FBI,CIA,DOD CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHERE THE LASERS ARE COMING
FROM, WE CAN SHOW YOU INTELLIGENCE OF ANYTHING YOU WANT BUT WE CAN"T FIGURE THIS ONE OUT, BIN LADEN'S OUTSMARTED US, NOW THIS!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES and now a word from our sponsor..."

[jmowreader]

19. Green lasers are fairly easy to get

http://www.jdsu.com/index2.cfm/NAVCID/5/CID/5/ACT/Display/ProductID/1139/G_ID/12/C_ID/339/?pagename=Laser%20Head%2C%20Argon%20(Ultra%20Series) is a nice commercial argon laser. If you have the cash you can just walk into a store that sells these things and walk out with your own laser.

Also, American DJ Supply, who makes stage lighting, sells 4.9mW green lasers. I don't know if you could do this with a 4.9mW laser, but you can get all of them you want at any music store. It would probably be better to do this with one of these stage lasers than with an industrial laser...you can walk into a music store and buy a laser without raising any questions, but industrial equipment suppliers are a different story; those guys know their customers and will call the cops if someone buys a laser then starts illuminating airliner cockpits with it.

Tracking? Put the laser on a tripod, screw a $40 rifle scope to the top of it, and you've got a very nice manual tracking system.

[Solon]

20. A lot more difficult than that, I call it a red herring...

First off, why would you want to try to blind a pilot at all? There is already a Co-pilot who can take over immediately if there is any problem. Second, tracking an Airplane, either while taking off, or in the air, with a rifle scope is a recipe for failure. It would be useful if you wanted to blind the pilot before the plane took off, but thats useless to begin with. If you try to track them while taking off, you would have to account for last minute changes, as well as doing it before the nose rises out off the ground. You don't, and depending on where you are at, you lose line of sight with windows, hence laser is useless.

Another factor that I don't see people mentioning, that would be a HUGE unknown to any wannabe terrorists is the window itself. Have you ever looked at a piece of glass at an angle and see it distort light passing through it, its called refraction, and varies from window to window depending on how its made. What use is a laser if you aim it right at a pilots eyes, as you see them, then a spit second later, it hits his chest or forehead, causeing no harm? Also, all pieces of glass, at a great enough angle, will reflect all light coming in at that angle, you can test this yourself, look at a piece of glass from a great enough angle and it looks like a mirror. This is probably the dumbest red herring I have ever seen, and if it is true, the dumbest idea ANYONE has ever come up with to disrupt air travel. Why not go all out and use a MW laser that can slice up the aircraft instead, seems like a marginally better idea.

[jmowreader]

22. Oh, this is far better than actually blinding the pilot

Joe Terrorist buys a green stage laser and fires it at the cockpit of some commercial airliners.

Tomorrow morning, the paper has "Commercial airline cockpits illuminated by green lasers at local airport."

Next thing you know, the entire town is scared shitless that someone is Blinding Our Intrepid Pilots As They Take Off With Planes Full of Children.

And naturally, when these planes crash it will be into either an elementary school (the one that's right at the end of the runway, naturally) or a day care center. Maybe a hospital or a mall.

It doesn't matter that the laser won't actually take out an airplane, it's the psychological Effect of the thing that makes it an effective terrorist tool.