Is this enough to convince, that Bush will "win" election in 2004?

[Oracle]

The Bush fascist already have many different plans enacted in many states, via recalls of Democrats, electronic voting machines, the republican corporate media, etc. etc.

The primary reasons why Mr. Bush will likely be elected are three fold: 1) The Republicans (primarily Mr. Cheney and Mr. Bush) have raised a record $250 million for the race, or twice that of all Democrats taken together (another less speculative reason inherent is also the weakness of the Democrats running; 2) the "economy stupid" rhetoric on the left Democratic side is a fallacy; Bush Senior was unaffected by the same scenario when he ran for his second term in office. The realty isn’t that the economy brought him down, that is utterly untrue -- it was Ross Perot who took 21 percent of the vote in 37 states to hand Bill Clinton a victory (twice Perot performed this function granting the unpopular Clinton two victories with less than half the votes counted, or a mere 43 percent the first time). Also the economy is being manipulated by the Federal Reserve system’s Chairman Alan Greenspan who (clearly) has agreed to "float" another false speculative boom which gives the illusion of recovery because the American people, given the 1st "problem" set out above, simply do not understand economics 101; and finally 3) Mr. Bush will be running as the war president once again as both fronts (Iraq and Afghanistan) escalate and more Americans die, and should a terrorist attack of some level occur on American soil prior to the election’s vote, something which would surprise nobody, Mr. Bush will be a "shoe-in," as our war-president!

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4605.htm

[ButterflyBlood]

1. no

that Perot cost Bush I the election is a right wing myth that has been repeated so many times even some on the left now believe it it appears. Perot took away just as many votes from Clinton as he did Bush I, the only state Clinton got more than 50% in was his home state of Arkansas, so if Perot took votes away only from Bush I he would've won in another Mondale-esque landslide. Riduculous. And please don't tell me that Dole would've beat Clinton without Perot.

[Oracle]

3. But do you also disagree with...

"the "economy stupid" rhetoric on the left Democratic side is a fallacy; Bush Senior was unaffected by the same scenario when he ran for his second term in office. The realty isn’t that the economy brought him down, that is utterly untrue..."

[ButterflyBlood]

5. what did then?

his approval ratings were plummeting as the economy dropped.

[K-W]

2. The money is a very valid point

and the democrats are going to have a very hard time battling that war chest. The economy points I dont buy at all.

My reasons would be 2

1) The Bush War Chest
2) Personal Attacks, as soon as we get a candidate we can expect a clinton style unrelenting personal attack of lies

add those two together and things look very tricky

[tedoll78]

4. I'm hoping that..

1) Soros' $75 million for Americans Coming Together (the GOTV effort in 17 key states) will help us out a bit. It's a very legal, unprecedented GOTV effort that gets us past those campaign finance laws. That's a TON of money for for those operations, and it leaves the Dems less pressured to spend their own monies on such operations.

2) No matter who our nominee is, we need to adopt Dean's fundraising style immediately. Bring out The Bat and have donation drives on a monthly basis. And hope that the party can unite around our candidate: if Dean can raise $12 million in one quarter alone and all of our candidates' fundraising ops unite, we can effectively compete.

[dragonlady]

14. money doesn't equal votes

Don't forget that every $50 donation to Dean comes from a person who has one vote, just like the $2,000 donor to Bush. And there are a lot more donors to Dean, the number increasing every day. (Let's just hope their votes can be counted properly.)

[K-W]

16. Nothing equals votes

but money matters alot, modern elections are elections of public perception

[stevedeshazer]

If money doesn't equal votes

Why does Bush need to raise $250 million to get (s)elected?

Cash matters a great deal.

[madrchsod]

6. greenspan is not a

supporter of bush 1 or 2. george the first had no use for greenspan and greenspan no use for george. the fed has done everything it can, but when you put the country in this huge long term debt, there is no hope for a recovery.

[imax2268]

7. I seriously

don't think * has a chance...people are fed up with him and he has lost his credibility...

[Oracle]

9. You underestimate the power of the corporate media...

to only promote Bush as the patriot protector of the American people and "our" way of life, a staged terrorist attack of some kind, outright theft of the election (as last time, too late AFTER the election) the stock market and all economic indicators that things are turning around (as much bullshit as it is, the media will back it up.) Token gestures of helping seniors, children...and environmental laws enacted, right before the election, along with the lies and promises American sheep want to hear and believe, the inevitable smears of the democratic nominee, a war time president NEVER (in all of history) never fails to get reelected (the wars will escalate, you can count on that.)

[ButterflyBlood]

11. he is not a war time president

there has been no declaration of war. quit saying that fascist bullshit.

your pessimistic attitude isn't going to help either. i don't see the point in trying to talk people into giving up because you think there's no chance. You're doing Rove's job for him.

[Oracle]

20. The last thing I would ever want or do...

is to have people 'give up." Being aware of real factors is much more productive than hiding ones head in the sand or promoting false hope...there's lots of work to be done...AWARENESS of ALL aspects is what's going to help us, not the opposite.

There hasn't been a war declared since World War Two....

Congress declaring war has been effectively terminated. Though the Constitution demands it…they found ways around it…can’t you recall a few month’s ago when anyone who spoke out against the “war" in Afghanistan or Iraq was called a traitor. unpatriotic, even treasonist?

[K-W]

21. If you dont want people to give up

stop saying that Bush will win because war time presidents always win.

[Oracle]

22. Is that enough to make you...

want to "give up." I don't think so...don't underestimate people.

[K-W]

28. erm

If you dont want people to give up you say:
"No wartime president has lost reelection yet, so we need to work hard."

You said:
"a war time president NEVER (in all of history) never fails to get reelected "

Notice how your phrasing implies that W is completely unbeatable.

[Oracle]

30. I'm suggesting...

with the obvious facts and history (if that means anything, I hate to to say, I do believe it does, given the American peoples apathy, indifference, media led and non-voting ways.)

Let's talk about the real ways we can defeat these fascist...not just, oh Dean is better...no Kerry is, etc.

The facts are real...it's not me just saying that they are...the real question is...what can we do to offset, counteract...stop it before it becomes reality.

There's plenty of time and yes, we must work and there's much work to be done.

[caledesi]

8. No. * has totally f*cked up this country. Name one thing that

he has done that has improved the standard of living in this country. I can't think of one....oh, yeah, the Amber Alert (LOL!)

Other than that, this country is a mess.

He is a one-termer and not elected to boot!

[wuushew]

10. Amber Alert has not helped those who enjoy the rave scene

stupid stupid Joe Biden

[peacetalksforall]

12. I never thought he had a chance of being elected and

I was nearly right except for the not so supreme Supreme
Court five who are in on every right wing strategy and
enable it.

So, I can't say Bush won't be in.

Just remember, he is irrelevant as a President, but the
cabal who runs him are relevant. They are ruthless stealth
criminals of the U.S. Constitution and what the American
people are all about. They can't prevail, but they might
because they are exquisitely organized and spread very wide,
but tight. They have an army with carefully assigned battles.

It is not a given that they won't succeed. I didn't say win.
They don't win, THEY TAKE.

[TruthIsAll]

13. Oracle, you have your numbers and conclusions wrong..

Perot got 19% in '92, Clinton 43%, Bush 37%.

Split the Perot votes and Clinton wins with 53%

Even if Clinton gets only 8 of the 19% (or 42% of Perot's votes), he still gets 51%.

In '96, Perot got 9%, Clinton 49%, Dole 41%...Clinton wins easy without Perot in the race..

[ButterflyBlood]

15. the old saying about repeating a lie enough times is proven right here

after '92 all the freepers were screaming about how Clinton was illegitimate because he was elected on a plurality.

that all stopped after 2000.

[Oracle]

17. "Perot who took 21 percent of the vote in 37 states"

37 states...Perot, by most knowledgable people is a right-wing piece of shit, masqueraded as a "moderate," (ugh!) To suggest he took equal amounts of votes from Clinton and Bush , is ridiculous.

However, admittedly Dole was a weak candidate…the republicans powers were in retreat and planning well in advance for 2000 for George and Jeb, Harris, etc… in Florida (an obvious critical battleground, as they are now doing in California.)

Clinton was an incumbent and it was going to be difficult to remove him (just as Bush is now.) They just regrouped for the 2000 election, which was their plan and they STILL had to steal the election…that’s my point…they are even more powerful now than they were in 2000…that’s the problem…unfortunately...can one dispute that?

The tactic was to keep Clinton's presidency pretty much ineffective during his second term…via Starr and luckily for them, they were able to get a “blow job” and they, by all accounts achieved that. (And they are still blaming him for everything wrong as we speak.)

There was no way they were not going to steat the 2000 election for their boy puppet and agenda which is now in full swing.

[K-W]

19. Actually

they could very easily have lost the 2000 election. But they didnt. And regardless of what Perot was, he did draw votes from both sides.

[ButterflyBlood]

25. Gore made so many screw ups

if he hadn't of done that and carried Tennessee, New Hampshire or West Virginia, Florida would've been irrelevant.

My parents both voted for Mondale in '84 and Dukakis in '88. In '92 my mom voted for Clinton and my dad for Perot. In '96 they both voted for Clinton. In '00 they both voted for Gore. My dad has a thing for third party candidates though, he voted for John Anderson in 1980. But he definately wouldn't of voted for Bush I. And by the way, neither one calls themself a Democrat, even though they voted Democratic in almost every election, suprisingly. I don't know about my dad, but the only time my mom voted for a Republican was for governor in 2000, in which case he was a pretty nice guy who owned the bank she worked with and is pretty moderate actually, also the Democratic candidate while great at first and thought of a shoo-in before developed cancer and it became speculated she might not live until the end of her campaign, much less her term (I think her health has improved now but she's said she won't run for office ever again)

[Oracle]

33. Yes, many a fact was distorted by ...

our friendly neighborhood republican owned corporate media…disgusting, as we watched it unfold…and what will we do to make sure it doesn’t happen again? Because that’s their plan.

Or will we go down to the wire kicking democrats we don't care for in the ass...some deserve it (Lieberman , he put himself in the "moderate" clearly republican camp...just enough for us to lose...what does he care...he's taken care of...)

The ones who fear what I'm trying to speak about...are lost! Smoke another one...and we'll get them next time...this isn't a football game...as they want us to believe...Limbaugh on ESPN...

Man, this is real and do we have to accept the dirty filthy, slimy play Rove has coming for us...

[Marlie]

18. Remember something

When Clinton left office, the country was doing very well. Peace
and prosperity (not for all of course, but things were certainly
better than now) which left a general feeling of contentment so a lot
of people stayed home and didn't bother to vote. They figured things
would stay the same no matter who was President. Wrong!

Unless things change drastically in the next year, people will be
at the polls in droves. Things are not good, lots of people are
very angry and are looking for change and will want Bush out of
office. The contentment factor won't be there - all the media spin
and money in Bush's campaign pocket should not do the trick this
time. Remember Bush's - fool me once quote. I think it may apply
here.

[nomaco-10]

23. Oh, ye of little faith...

Jump on the bandwagon of the Democratic Party and think positive thoughts and back it up with with active deeds and involvement in the next election. All is not lost, there are 440 and some days left to take this country back. Do not live in the past, (did Al Gore get fucked or is Clark the man for 2004), rather live in the moment and savor every small victory (Estrada comes to mind) and keep a positive attitude and a good work ethic for the next 14 months and we have a good chance of prevailing. We wil take our country forward into the 21st century if we all stand together.

[Kool Kitty]

24. I'm not too worried about the way that the people will vote-

I'm absolutely terrified about the way the votes may be counted.

[Oracle]

26. Or not counted...

my point exactly!

[w4rma]

27. I think this is going to be an extremely tough fight

Negatives:
Bush will have more than $200 million in campaign donations to spend.
The big corporations now control the TV and radio media and filter out what they don't want folks to hear while amplifying what they want folks to hear.

Positives:
The internet will help us bypass the corporate media filter so that it will be tougher for them to lie about our candidate while keeping the credibility they have with moderate voters.
Democrats are using grassroots more effectively during this election than in, at least, the past 50 years.

[K-W]

29. positive

We have seen thier tricks and know our enemy. The candidate we send in this time will at least know what to expect.

[jeter]

31. HAHA this is just stupid

Let republican assholes believe this. It will be their downfall.

[sham]

32. haha! I like this part:

"...granting the unpopular Clinton two victories with less than half the votes counted..."

If Clinton was unpopular, what does that make Bush*? Oh yeah. A popular wartime president (TM).

[Oracle]

34. And enough to make the status quo

He's very, very popular, truly the media tells everyone...cuz Rove will indeed make him a "war time" president...as silly as this sounds...

But facts, simply are facts!

[grasswire]

35. there is no $250 million

So far, about $50 mil has been raised. Whether the rest can be raised or not remains to be seen. Donors may start withholding until they see how things are going to play out in the next few weeks.

[berry]

36. Wow--I didn't believe I could be suckered, but I had swallowed

the $200mil story whole. Thanks! I hope you're right, that people are waiting to see. (I guess even the top 1% don't want to throw their money into a black hole.) That would be excellent news.