My hubby just talked to our Senators offices

[Pam-Moby]

Debbie Stabenows office stated that they had no idea where she stood on the issue of backing Congressman Conyers. Hubby told them that we have sent many emails and made calls to her with no response. My hubby is going to call them back in the morning and they will have an answer for us.

Carl Levins office just said that he will do what is best for the country. My husband told Levins office and Stabenowns office that if they do not back Conyers that we will work to get them out. The person at Levins office told my husband that he was not reasonable in his demands. The person said he will have an email out to us or call.

[DCdem87]

1. Dammit ...

Why won't our democratic politicians step the fuck up?!?!?

[JNelson6563]

14. Here comes the clue bus! Hop aboard!

Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe these Senators have been told to sit down and be quiet?

That's the word among the Senatorial aide circuit. Now quit scapegoating and take a good hard look at Kerry-the-Leader.

Julie

P.S. An additional clue for you all, Levin is extremely unlikely to run again in 08 so what do you think is holding him back? Yes, by all means, threaten to withhold your votes from the guy who won't need 'em and then our other Dem Sen. and you will then promote who for their seats?

The idiocy I see here sometimes stuns me.

[barb162]

42. "Senators have been told to sit down and be quiet" By whom

pray tell? Not by the people who elected them. They answer to us. Now if you are suggesting they want high-paying corporate jobs (with Republican bosses) after they leave office, okay, I can see why they are keeping their mouths shut.

[JNelson6563]

48. Take a wild guess

and prepare to have bot-sensitivities offended.

Julie

[Pam-Moby]

54. Well, I guess you can not answer that...n/t

[barb162]

69. I wish you would not answer my question with "Take a wild guess"

It tells me zero. Also "...bot-sensitivities offended" is a bit oblique. Again, could you please be direct and simply answer my question in a straightforward fashion as I can't read your mind

[gratuitous]

2. "Not reasonable in his demands"

What demand? That in a democracy, the votes be counted? That we run the nation in accordance with the laws on the books? I have a great deal of respect for both of Michigan's senators, but Mr. Levin might want to double-check who he hires for his office, if someone can say that on the phone to a constituent.

Mr. Pam-Moby, on the other hand, rocks.

[tgnyc]

56. The demands that they manifest some integrity

in the face of controversy. It's really unfair to ask a U.S. senator to do such a thing. It's not in their nature. The cocktail swillers in the Washington media circle will stop calling them potential presidential or vice presidential candidates, and without that, what's the point of being a senator?

[Jo March]

3. Well, he could have said that those who don't fight for the voters

will be remembered by the voters on election day but - screw politeness at this point!

You and your husband ROCK!!

[Pam-Moby]

4. My husband said

that the guy sounded like he was a repub himself. He had the balls to tell my hubby that Kerry did not want the presidency. What the hell is up with that? My husband told him that if Kerry did not want to be president why is he possibly running in 2008. I am as mad as hell.

[Pam-Moby]

5. The guys name is Kevin

517-377-1508

Does anyone know of another #

[Jo March]

8. Kevin shall here from arnheim

Oh yes. Oh yes he will.

:evilgrin:

[Jo March]

7. What an ass! Oh, I need to call this idiot myself

Nobody talks to Mr. Pam-Moby that way!!

;)

[jdj]

20. whoa people

then y'all need to get this puke out of that office.

Make sure his supervisors know what he is telling people

Repuke sleeper borg units are spreading like cancer.

[tsuki]

24. If he does not protect my vote, and my neighbor's vote, he is not doing

what is "best for the country."

If he can stand up for transparent elections in the Ukraine, why can't he stand up for transparent elections in the US?

Self-serving does not equal "best for the country."

[old blue]

6. I've heard nothing back from Michigan senators either

despite multiple emails and a fax, personally written.

Levin will "do what's best for the country?"

That line is becoming code for something sinister.

[Pam-Moby]

10. The mind set is

kerry don't want to be president. So I do not think Levin will stand. I will wait until the 6th...and if Levin don't I will go door to door to oust him.

[JNelson6563]

16. Grow up

Yeah, if Levin, who fought tooth and nail against ShrubCo. at every turn doesn't fight his guts out for the guy who couldn't concede any faster then that's it! He's out.

:puke:

Julie

[Pam-Moby]

25. This is not about John Kerry

This issue is about America and the principles that our election process is fair and lacks any suppression or fraud in our elections.

I say if we do not stand up now, we will never be able to stand up! So if Levin or any other democrat lack the conviction to speak for the people we need someone else in there that will!

[JNelson6563]

28. Show me one who's done better than Levin

Only a complete idiot would take this fight to Levin. If Levin ain't standing up (with absolutely nothing to lose) who is that you think wants it that way?????

Levin told the trained chimp to stick his Iraq war AND voted against the Homeland inSecurity Bill during the 2002 election cycle. Kerry didn't do either and he was also re-running for his Senate seat and didn't want to offend the Rethugs. Levin stood on principle when it REALLY mattered, when he had something to lose for doing so. If he's not now stop and think a minute before you go running around, hysterically crying foul on one of the most principled Dems left today. Why would he stay silent when he's got nothing to lose for speaking out?? (Give yourself longer than 3 seconds to ponder it willya?)

And do us all a favor, target your wrath at the PROPER target, like those who would be our leaders (K/E). If I'm not mistaken that is who has ONCE AGAIN tucked tail and run into the shadows (shades of 2002).

Julie

[Pam-Moby]

29. What good is Levin

even though he has been an excellent Senator and has strong convictions. I believe that we stand at a cross roads today where the democratic party has not displayed any strength in standing up to the chimp. Levin is no good if we allow the repugs to dominate our government because of fraud year after year. So yes after thinking about it, pause, I still feel that Senator Levin is no good to us if he lays down this time. I say that we do not have to have the congressmen and senators we have but actually we can have the congressmen and senators we want. Remember that this is a democracy but it does not mean that we keep letting the evil one and his chump friends continue stealing seats at will!!!!

I suggest that you grow up....Your statement of being an "idiot" suggest that your opinion is the only one!!!

I thought this board was for sharing of ideas!!! Sad to see people being called names for their views.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pam-Moby]

32. Just who told Levin

to stand down? I was under the impression that he was no ones puppet!

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Do you REALLY want a Republican to replace Levin?

Because frankly that's your only alternative. Politicians from both parties suck, it's a fact of life. But Carl Levin is miles better than most US Senators and certainly better than any Republican who would run against him. Frankly I'd take him over either of my two senators in a heartbeat.

[Pam-Moby]

18. Not true

If there is another Democrat who has more backing by the voters the party can impose upon (EX: Senator Levin) that another Democrat is being put in his place to represent our party.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pam-Moby]

34. Who told Levin

to stand down? I was under the impression that he was no ones puppet.
If you can answer this-please tell us all!:hurts:

[JNelson6563]

45. Sorry

but my sources are more important to me than popularity on some obscure DB. Put the pieces together yourself.

Also, get involved in real life (not this armchair stuff) and get a clue. Make some political friends and contacts and you too can know what the hell is going on.

I've already revealed more than I sshould in order to help you stop making a fool of yourself, if you want more get off yoiur bum and get busy.

Julie

On Edit: Have you seen this????

Senator John Kerry, the defeated Democratic candidate, has blamed his failure to unseat President George W Bush on the traditional advantage held by a president in wartime and his own failure to "connect" with voters.

"I'm not going to lick my wounds or hide under a rock or disappear. I'm going to learn," Mr Kerry told Newsweek magazine in his first interview since the Nov 2 election.

"I've had disappointments and I've learned to cope. I've lost friends, a marriage: I've lost things in life." He then pointed out that no sitting president had ever been defeated during a war.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

Yeah, that asshole Levin. Ugh. Nothing like a cruise down denial eh? You got a problem with capitulation take a look at John Kerry and get the hell off of Levin who has valiantly kicked BushCo ass in ways Kerry could only dream of (that is if Milque-toast MaryBeth and From-the-Fuck-up let him dream so wildly).

[klyon]

50. true Kerry is a Senator after all

He should step up. He doesn't seem to think there was a problem with voting machines.

I want transparency.

KL

War Is NOT The Answer
Respect our Troops

[Pam-Moby]

53. My position

I will support the Senator that supports the people on this issue.

[bobbieinok]

67. WHY don't YOU care about having honest elections??? what IS your

problem?????

[bobbieinok]

68. 8421 posts "on some obscure DB" !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[mycatforpresident]

71. I'm pretty sure we live in the same town.

Imagine that!

[jmatthan]

49. If levin does not stand up

then IT WILL BE A REPUBLICAN that replaces him!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Hippo_Tron]

66. Levins' been there for 20 years, Michigan is a blue state

Levin isn't going to be unseated.

[Ravenseye]

51. I called Rick Santorum and Arlen Spector's offices

just kidding.

[sleepyhead]

9. I have called and sent multiple emails to my senators

Clinton and Schumer - no response at all. Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

P.S. Spell check wants to replace "Schumer" with "schemer".

[pelagius]

12. Emails to elected officials typically aren't looked at...

...according to some staffers I know. It's too easy just to forward some form letter or other political spam. Sorting through to find a serious letter would quickly consume the staff's time, so most of it gets deleted unread. You might get an auto-reply, if you're lucky.

If you want the most impact, do a snail mail letter. Faxes and phone calls are next best, in that they are counted as a "vote" on an issues. Personal responses to "vote this way or that" are rare.

[Occulus]

62. Don't know about that....

I've emailed Levin's office several times, and each time I got back a reasoned, well-written response. I even got a typed letter in the mail once, when people were posting on the Plame threads. I must say, I was very impressed.

I've also called his office a few times with prepared statements I've previously written in hand, and the staffers were always very polite and listened attentively to all I had to say. One important thing: I didn't write or call without knowing in advance exactly what it was I was trying to say. I'm sure that had something to do with it.

[phylny]

47. I e-mailed them today.

It'll be interesting if Hillary doesn't respond, because I usually get an automated response e-mail with her general views on the subject.

I never hear back from Schumer's office, though.

[knitter4democracy]

11. Just called

Yeah, got the, "I don't know the Senator's decision on this. He's still looking for the facts," answer, but it was better than anti-Kerry crap. I've never been impressed with Levin (or Stabenow, for that matter--when I was growing up, she was our state rep, and I've met her and one of her sons--not impressed), and I'll work to kick his ass out if he doesn't do the right thing here.

[Pam-Moby]

13. I was so shocked by the feedback from that guy.

My hubby kept coming right back at him. Finally my hubby said I do no care what your views are-I want to know how Levin stands of the issue. I just can not believe this shit.

[knitter4democracy]

38. Me neither

Does Levin have to be shown the footage from F9/11 again--him sitting there and doing nothing?! Where was he then? Maybe we need to picket his office or something . . .

[mycatforpresident]

15. I got the exact same BS

When I called Levin/Stabenow earlier today. Do you think a core group of DU Michigan constituents should annoy them with several calls per day until we receive a definitive answer?:evilgrin:

EDIT: for clarity

[Pam-Moby]

19. Well

We have a contact person for Stabenow that we are to call on Tuesday to get the answer to our question. She was very nice and did not interject her views on the issues. I would say for you to call them back on Tuesday also.

[Pam-Moby]

43. I am game if you are. n/t

[mycatforpresident]

44. Let's start this morning...

How many times a day do you think we should call? Should we be ultra-annoying or just mildly irritating? My goal is just a solid hint, at least. I'm so sick of this wait and see stuff. It's like the fire department telling you they'll only send a truck if you can PROVE there's a fire. By the time they get there, your house is ash and cinders.

Lemme know what you get, and I'll do likewise.

[Pam-Moby]

52. We just called Debbie's office back today.

Our contact is on the other line..she is to call us back. I will wait 15 minutes and call back until I get an answer. I guess it maybe a irritant. I feel we deserve an answer! If they give a lame excuse for a answer. I will press them for a true answer. Conyers deserves our fellow Michiganders support by us and our Senators.

[Pam-Moby]

55. Just got off the phone with Stabenows office

They refuse to make a verbal statement on how her views are over the phone. Debbie is just now drafting a letter with regards to her standing on the Conyers issue.

All indications its a NO.

[mycatforpresident]

70. My report is the same, pretty much. n/t

[DFLforever]

21. By all means work hard against Levin and Stabenow

Two of the BEST people in the US Senate - especially Levin. Yeah, that'll show them when you put in a couple of Rethugs in their place.

I think a few MI Du'ers need to grow a brain. Has it occurred to you they are following the lead of the candidate who conceded that he LOST this election including Ohio.

[Pam-Moby]

23. Let it stay

the same as was. I say not. I to have respect for both Stabenow and Levin but if they are just going to lay down when it is tough then we need someone who has stronger convictions than that. If you are also saying that they must follow John Kerry because he has conceded then just who are they representing? John Kerry? Or the people of Michigan? It best be the people of Michigan!!!!

[knitter4democracy]

39. "Two of the BEST people in the US Senate" ?!

Really? Then we are in trouble as a party. God bless them, but I would never say that they're the best in the Senate. And I've met Debbie and one of her sons . . . I grew up with her representing my district in the State House. She's a bit, um, flighty occasionally and often seems to have a grasp of something until you start asking questions. She does work hard, I'll give you that, but I wouldn't say she has done much based on her convictions. Feel free to flame me on this. I've known her political career for a long time.

[Pam-Moby]

41. No flame here my friend! I am with you n/t

[tgnyc]

58. She isn't "leadership" material, that's for sure.

This kind of action will take someone with courage, conviction, vision, follow-through -- in short, a leader.

[knitter4democracy]

65. Yup.

Debbie's never struck me as that kind of politician.

[flordehinojos]

22. i fear that about 100% of the democratic senators are not interested in

backing conyers or contesting the bush election--for some reason they seem to prefer to stuff the possibility of any kerry win and let bush and his fascist power grab just move on. the response by your two senators sounds like a good barometer for what the other ones might actually do as well.

[tsuki]

26. I watched an interview on CSpan of two senators, names I forget now

because they were forgettable. They seem to think they are the House of Lords. They were talking about how "different" the senate was from the House. And that they had a couple of Reps that had been newly elected as Senators. And that how they would have to teach them that the "rough and tumble" ways of the House were not at all acceptable in the Senate. Less than 5 minutes into the interview, I switched channels. I was afraid they were going to have TV sex right in the studio.

Barf.

[rhite5]

27. It should not be thought of as a partisan issue.

Properly investigating this election has nothing to do with "Kerry vs Bush". The subject must be the election process itself. Perhaps it is true that Kerry does not want to be president. That is NOT what is important.

The question must be *Do elections count or not?* Do the people have the right to vote and have their votes properly counted?

If the answer is *No* then our version of democracy is gone. It is gone for everyone, Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Independents.

That is why I say, EVERY senator, regardless of political party, should want to be seen standing with the congressmen and women who refuse to accept the Electoral College results without further investigation. As long as it takes. Even if it means delaying the Inauguration.

How could any of them dare NOT to at least appear to stand for democracy?

I recognize that standing alone as the "lone Senator" is exceedingly dangerous. But if 100 senators stood up, it would send a safe message.

Truth is, we are getting a message from the silence.

The election was a sham. All future ones will be too.

[Solly Mack]

33. "do what is best for the country" is just a euphemism for

doing nothing
allowing thugs to get away with their corruption

Fact is:

Not exposing government corruption is what's worst for our country.

It would not hurt this country one damn iota to send, let's say,even a president to prison. In fact, it might just get the country back on the good foot.

It's never for the good of the country to COVER ANYTHING UP.

[Pam-Moby]

36. Amen

This is my point as well. I will support the Democrats who supports the people. Regardless of who we may have to remove.

[Solly Mack]

37. Exactly. Support the people and I'll support you

[tgnyc]

59. "What's best for the country" means

whatever will allow the citizenry to remain narcotized by the false sense that everything is good and right and fair in America. Supporting Conyers wold represent a "rude" awakening, which in the minds of your average senator is inherently not good for the country.

[Solly Mack]

63. a rude awakening has been a long time coming

and America needs it and needs it badly.

[UTUSN]

35. You & Hubby Are Great Peeps - Thanks n/t

[Sleepless In NY]

40. We should all "stand down" next time they want volunteers& money

I've had all I can take of my so called representatives. I'd like to see how they fare with none of us volunteering and without our money.

They dont need us? Our opinions don't matter? Good! Then they can do without us. And our votes too.

Don't you love how they were "told" to stand down? But of course, they aren't puppets! Oh, please wake up people.

Just before the elections, they were pleading for volunteers to go to "swing states". Of course it was on your dime and your time. Republicans on the other hand, paid for their "volunteers" and also told them to go mum on their activities. Yet Kerry has money left over? WTF?

And it isn't just this election, it was 2000 too. You can see what good has been acccomplished with their silence. Nothing. Bush got 4 years to ruin everything good that had been accomplished. And add to that, honestly, we all know that promises made about fixing voter irregularities was bogus, nothing has changed.

And truthfully, I haven't been exactly thrilled with Hillary or Schumer. But I kept telling myself would I rather have a republican in their place? Now after watching the both of them and their deafening silence about 9/11, I'm wondering just what difference it would make anyway. Neither spoke up about getting an investigation, the scam the EPA played on us, or the millions we had to pay for the "terror alerts" or extra security for the RNC convention, or for the police and firemen salaries(not to mention firehouses closing) or NY getting less funds than Wyoming for "security". Positively absurb. Where were these 2 during the RNC convention? They should have been on every TV show possible making these issues known. Alot of these issues were brought up in our local papers, but no comments from either Hillary or Chuck. Instead they followed the "party line"...silence.

Well I'm getting "tired" of the party line. And the silence. Anyone notice there were no alerts here during the holiday season? Almost didn't feel like Christmas without them. Since bush won, guess the need to feed terror is gone.

S'ok. Hillary & Chuck are free to do whatever they want & so are the rest of us who are getting disgusted. They are were they are today because of the (D) behind their names. How long that will last is anyone's guess. Wouldnt be a problem for any moderate to get elected here regardless of party. Hope they keep that in mind on Jan 6th. They should also keep in mind what happened to Daschle. Sitting on both sides on the fence, gets you nowhere.

[Vidar]

46. Thanks to you and your hubby.

[Spike from MN]

57. Senator Dayton places himself firmly in the spineless category.

Read the statement from Nov 9 on his website when you get a chance and you'll see what I mean:
http://dayton.senate.gov/news/details.cfm?id=228030&&

He also recently sent out a letter (or more probably, an email) begging for campaign contributions before the year's end. Comparing the letter to the statement on his website was rather interesting:

Campaign letter: "I am more determined than I have ever been in my life to stand up against their extremist agenda."

Nov. 9 statement: "I respect President Bush's victory and the will of the American electorate. I intend to agree with the President whenever I can and to disagree when I must."

Whoa! Apparently for Senator Dayton, being "more determined than ever to stand up to Dubya" actually means "agreeing with Dubya whenever he can and disagreeing when he must." Just another spineless Dem. He won't get my money, volunteer time, or my vote next time around. I think I might start voting straight communist ticket just to make a point.

Any Dem that can't stand up and demand fair and transparent elections doesn't deserve to be re-elected. Plain and simple.

[Imalittleteapot]

60. Mike Malloy said last night that

not one of the Dem Senators would back Conyers. Looks like Mike is right again.

What a spineless bunch. I don't get it. Do they think that conservatives will vote for them? Aren't they afraid of loosing us - their base?

At least you guys have Democratic representation in Congress. No point in contacting my reps. They're all GOP.

[0rganism]

61. The time to do this was in 2000

It's too late now. Much too late. The fascists have it all wrapped up now: the government, the mass media, the voting machines, the megachurches.

They did the same damn thing in 2000, but this time they got it right, and took the popular vote too. They didn't let it get close in Ohio or Florida.

Now, if a senator stands up to support Conyers, s/he can't even claim to be doing it in the name of the will of the people. January of 2001 was the last chance to save USian democracy, and we blew it. Big time.

Without some serious election reforms at the state level, the Democratic party will not be winning any more national elections. None. It's "War Presidents" from here on out, as far as the eye can see.

[Pam-Moby]

64. I Am Sooooooooo Happy

I just called the Levins office in DC and am so pleased that Levin has not come to a decision about the Conyers issue yet. The person who answered the phone was great and sounded hopeful. I told her of the conversation with the Lansing office and she said it would be addressed.

to call all senators 1-800-839-5276

to call any congressman 1-877-762-8762