Sorry...But you're not a Democrat if you back the CA. Recall!

[trumad]

How can you be if you support a Rove created, Issa financed recall of the recently elected "Democratic" Gov of the great State of California.

You're simply not a Democrat if you vote yes on the recall...So if you do, change party affiliations immediatly and get the Fuck out of my party!

[virtualobserver]

1. Give 'em hell, Trumad....

I agree, and especially since the problems that plague Davis are all Republican creations.

[Booberdawg]

2. Here's a related thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=290136

[DemVet]

3. True,and I think Feinstein...

....has the correct take on things. How can you say no to a recall and then campaign to back Cruz? Vote for him as a backup if you wish, but I don't think it makes political sense to actively promote him at this stage.

[trumad]

5. Anything that's created by Rove

and financed with Repuke money should never, ever be supported by a Democrat...PERIOD!

[redeye]

21. So if he says 1+1=2...

...I should know that mathematics is wrong :eyes:?

I'd rather support what I like independently of whether Rove does.

[trumad]

33. Horsecrap

You support this recall then you support Rove, Issa and the rest of these facists fucks!

[redeye]

36. Prove it...

...and stop sloganeering. In this case, Issa is right - in others, he is wrong. I know that partisanship is easier than thinking, but it's also false in most cases.

[Woodstock]

77. Ah, redeye

I have your questions below. Please answer.

[dArKeR]

4. You need to replace 'Democrat' with 'Moral' in your Subject line!

[Racenut20]

6. Good work Trumad

U sound like a "REAL" Democrat to me.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Arianna opposes the recall

Like Bustamante, Arianna Huffington says "No on recall, yes on Arianna"!

And the socialist candidate is saying the same thing:

Socialist Equality Party statement on the California recall election

Vote “no” on the California recall. Vote John Christopher Burton for governor, for a socialist solution to the crisis

Jobs for the unemployed! Billions for education, health care and housing! US troops out of Iraq!

30 August 2003

1. The Socialist Equality Party (SEP) calls on working people in California to utilize the October 7 recall election to deal a blow to the Bush administration and the policies of war and social reaction of both the Republican and Democratic parties. We urge a “no” vote on the recall of Governor Gray Davis, in order to defeat this latest attempt by the Republican Party, acting in the interests of the corporate elite, to subvert democratic processes. At the same time, we offer no political support to Davis, Lt. Governor Bustamante or any other representative of the Democratic Party. We urge a vote for John Christopher Burton, a Los Angeles civil rights lawyer and SEP supporter, who is on the ballot to provide a socialist alternative, should the recall succeed, to the candidates associated with the two big business parties.

2. The California recall election has national and international significance. The social crisis in California is of unprecedented dimensions: on the one hand, a colossal state budget deficit, bankrupt schools and hospitals, skyrocketing housing costs, rising unemployment and poverty, deteriorating conditions of life for the vast majority of the population; on the other hand, the richest state in the richest country in the world, with an astonishing concentration of wealth in the hands of the corporate elite of CEOs, bankers and billionaires. A single individual in Silicon Valley, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, has a personal fortune that peaked in 2000 at $58 billion—more than enough to cover the entire state budget deficit.

3. In the face of this acute contradiction between the accumulation of private wealth and the needs of the broad public, the “major” candidates—Davis himself, the target of the recall, and his would-be successors, Democrat Cruz Bustamante and Republicans Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tom McClintock and Peter Ueberroth—agree that the burden of the crisis must be placed on the backs of the working people. They may differ on the exact mixture of budget cuts, fees and consumption taxes to impose, but none of them proposes any significant inroads into the wealth and income of the rich. In the final analysis, despite their demagogy about protecting the interests of ordinary people, they all represent and defend a wealthy elite.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/cali-a30.shtml

I am glad that Dean was the first Presidential candidate to appear with Davis in opposition to the recall. As usual, Dean has taken the lead in opposing the rightwing!

[Paragon]

11. Well, not exactly

She's running - so personally, she'll be voting FOR the recall and said as much during the debate. (So trumad's theory holds - she is not a Demcrat.)

However, she is very much against how the recall came about: (from http://www.votearianna.com/article.php?id=51)

Is the Recall a Good Thing or a Bad Thing?

Well, it' s a mixed bag.

On the one hand, the recall petition was initiated and funded by right-wingers who were just sore about losing the election to Davis last year. Everyone knows that the majority of Californians are upset with Davis because he' s too conservative. But these Republicans are trying to use that popular dissatisfaction to put someone even more conservative in the governor's chair.

On the other hand, the special circumstances of the recall give progressives and liberals a unique opportunity to elect a governor we can actually stand behind and believe in.

A candidate can become governor without winning a majority of votes. Hundreds of people are taking their shot, putting their hats in the ring. Most of the candidates with any real chance are Republicans and conservatives, like Bill Simon, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Tom McClintock.

Meanwhile, the Democrats are confused over whether to stay with Davis or back an alternative. The strength of Cruz Bustamante's candidacy, as an established Democratic politician, is uncertain at this point.

That means the field so far is open for a progressive candidate like Arianna. With the GOP and Democrats splitting the votes multiple ways, a true progressive, even an independent, could step in and get enough votes to win.

That makes this a tremendous opportunity for all of California. We can win, and change the whole state in the process.

Help us turn a top-down right-wing coup into a bottom-up people' s rescue of the state government. Vote for Arianna Huffington!

[Nederland]

70. Liquid Assets

The California recall election has national and international significance. The social crisis in California is of unprecedented dimensions: on the one hand, a colossal state budget deficit, bankrupt schools and hospitals, skyrocketing housing costs, rising unemployment and poverty, deteriorating conditions of life for the vast majority of the population; on the other hand, the richest state in the richest country in the world, with an astonishing concentration of wealth in the hands of the corporate elite of CEOs, bankers and billionaires. A single individual in Silicon Valley, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, has a personal fortune that peaked in 2000 at $58 billion—more than enough to cover the entire state budget deficit.

If the socialists ever got elected to office in CA, 99% of the wealth controlled by Larry and every other rich CEO would leave California in under 24 hours. Sorry, but if you think that taking their money is a possible solution you live in an ignorant fantasy world.

[Hanuman]

86. Bustamonte appears to be "Pro Recall" now.

I've heard it now on several news pieces that he is dropping the "No on recall" aspect of his campaign.

And ostensibly all the other candidates, democrat, green, libertarian and repub (of course) are by default pro-recall by virtue of running.

[Paragon]

8. Fine

No on the recall, Yes on Arianna Huffington. :D

[jiacinto]

19. And another vote for Arnold indirectly

But for you what else is new?

[Paragon]

22. Yes, Carlos - I'm a Republican plant

Figured I'd try placating your paranoia, as common sense has long since gone bye-bye.

[jiacinto]

28. You know Arianna has no chance of winning

But then again I guess that you would rather "send a message" and let Arnold be Governor.

[Paragon]

29. No thanks

Not in the mood to get in a flame war with a brick wall.

[redeye]

30. You know that the differences between Cruz and Ahnold...

...cancel one another out. Ahnold is barely to the right of the DLC, and Cruz is to the right of Bush on the death penalty. This (and Cruz's use of loopholes in Prop 34) clearly cancels out with Ahnold's idiocy.

[davidinalameda]

68. what loopholes?

Bustamonte is following the law, but instead of getting crucified because of it, he gave the money to the No on Prop 54 campaign

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

69. How many people has Cruz put to death?

[redeye]

23. No, not another vote

Let's say that without my vote, the replacement is 1,900,000-1,850,000 for Bustamante. If I vote for Georgy, or Camejo, or Arianna, or anyone but Cruz "death penalty for 14-year-olds" Bustamante and Ahnold "idiot" Schwarzenegger, this tally doesn't change - whereas if I vote for Ahnold, it changes by 1 in favor of Ahnold.

Now, you might argue that since otherwise we'd all vote for Bustamante, by voting for someone except him and T-101 we produce the same relative result as an undecided deciding to vote for Ahnold, and that similarly a Republican voting for Simon is indirectly voting Cruz. This is complete bullshit, because while I don't know about the other Georgy/Camejo/Arianna supporters, I know that I don't see any difference between T-101 and Cruz that doesn't cancel out with another difference, and that if I had to decide between those two jerks I'd flip a coin.

[Hanuman]

87. That sucks.

I listened to Arrianna in the debate today and she actually hit a few out of the park. I like her WAAAAYYY more than Bustamonte.

Ultimately, you vote your conscience and you accept the results.

[Stuckinthebush]

9. What are the latest poll numbers on this thing?

Also, I wonder if there are numbers that show how many registered Dems support the recall?

I agree 100% that any Dem who votes for this thing plays right into Rovian plans.

[Woodstock]

78. On talk shows the neocons always paint it like most Dems do

support the recall.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any reliable numbers.

[Flying_Pig]

10. You go!!!

On the money Trumad!
:mad: :hi:

[jrthin]

12. AMEN!

nt

[Anti-fascist]

13. I don't care about California. It's not my business. But...

But Howard Dean's going to California and doing Gray Davis's business is only going to hurt Dean. He should have just stayed out of it.

What I think: If you oppose the recall but will vote for Bustamante, you're a hypocrite. Isn't that what Diane Feinstein said about this opportunistic slimeball?

[trumad]

15. Juding by the DU response

Dean did the right thing... Don't we want our politicians to have some Guts? I do...

[Woodstock]

79. Loyalty is a good thing

Perhaps what Dean was objecting to was the Republican engineered and funded coup aspect of the thing.

[library_max]

58. There are two ways to beat the recall

One is to vote against it. The other is to vote for Bustamante. Bustamante is running simply to provide an alternative way to bust the recall, since Gray Davis cannot by law run against himself.

Think about it. A "No" vote needs 50% or more to succeed. All Bustamante needs is to get more votes than any other single candidate. A lot of anti-recall people are likely to stay home on the day of the vote because they're disgusted with the whole spectacle.

But the recall is just plain wrong, just like the Clinton impeachment was wrong. While literally permissable, both took a legal safety-valve designed to remove serious malfeasants from office and used it as a loophole to undo a legitimate election on the theory that the incumbent was currently unpopular enough for them to get away with it.

This principle - that elections matter, that they are supposed to decide something - is getting lost in the feeding frenzy. When anyone and everyone can run, too many voters are looking for a "perfect fit" candidate who represents their exact pinpoint on the political spectrum. And that's great, except that only one candidate will win, and that's the one with the most votes. If Democrats/progressives can't unite behind their candidate, they will hand it to the Republicans who can.

[slackmaster]

65. Perhaps you don't understand how the recall election works

If Democrats follow your suggestion and oppose (i.e. vote NO on the first question) on the recall but do not vote for a successor (second question on the ballot), one of the Republican candidates (most likely Arnold) will become governor in the event the recall effort succeeds.

Failing to vote for a successor gives more power to people who do vote for a successor.

[JI7]

14. many don't know who rove is

i have seen many liberals and democrats support the recall. they are kind of stupid it seems. they blame everything on davis, but make no mention of the problems being the same or worse in other parts of the country, and how bush is ruining everything. it's kind of disgusting listening to them talk with no facts.

[Isome]

16. Davis

And, if I hear one more person start flapping their gums about how bad the budget in CA is, without once considering that state budgets across the country are crap right now, I'm going to have to resort to violence. More importantly, the budget was passed by California's Democrats & Republicans alike; Gray can't implement it without going through the process!

[redeye]

24. Who's "they"?

I don't blame the energy crisis on Davis. Really. Enron et al extorted money from California; Davis is just the idiot who signed the contract with them and didn't reregulate the energy industry. Also, I don't blame the bust on Davis - I just blame him for not doing enough to restore the state to at least partial growth and to fiscal discipline.

And for the record, if there could be a recall petition against Bush, I'd sign it. The only problem is that it requires a change in the bible, um, the US constitution, so for most Americans it's treason.

[LWolf]

17. I don't and won't back the recall.

But I understand those who do.

I don't like Gray Davis. I have only one use for him. He's a seat warmer. He's holding the space in the governor's seat so that the repubs can't get ahold of it.

That is the reason I'm voting no on the recall. Not because I want to hang on to Davis because he's such a great governor. Because I want to say no to election hijacking and no to republicans in my state. It has nothing to do with Davis.

I understand those who want to take the opportunity to oust him. To bring them around, they have to see that the recall is not about Davis, it's about a power grab.

And I will vote for another dem on the ballot after I vote no to the recall. Just in case too many Californians can't look beyond Davis to the bigger picture. Right now, I'm struggling with that. I think I ought to vote for Bustamonte, but I'm more interested in David Laughing Horse Robinson.

Of course, you could easily say I'm not a "real democrat." I just registered dem this spring. I've voted for plenty of dems, but never registered with a party before.

[SpongeBob]

18. The for "R"s: Remove (Clinton), Recount, Redistrict, Recall

Even CNN got the GOP ways of winning elections without votes.
Plus all the weird court orders glossing over voting problems and sacrificing it all for the suddenlt sacro-sant October 7, the lack of coverage of this aspect smell bad of Florida, Harris, deadline...
As for holly Arianna she managed to outdo Jeb in vulgarity: her Gary Coleman joke went: "I want him to seat on my lap during the debates" So, I see why Paragon needs to vote for her.

[redeye]

20. Why not?

Many registered Democrats will vote for the recall, so evidently you're wrong. I won't be one of them because I registered as an Independent exactly to protest against the Republicratic party.

Now, very few knee-jerk partisan Democrats who'd vote for Hitler if he ran as a Democrat will vote for the recall, so maybe you refer to this section of the population, which fits Orwell's definition of nationalism quite neatly.

As for small-d democrats, I don't know what's anti-democratic about recalling governors. Was Clinton's run in 1992 anti-democratic just because he was running against a legitimately-elected president? Of course not. How is this recall any different? Note that you can't cite the law in your defense because the recall is well-rooted in the California constitution.

[WilliamPitt]

25. You're not a Democrat if you tell people they're not Democrats

[redeye]

26. Okay, I say the same thing to you

Being a Democrat is simply a question of registering Democratic. I am a registered Independent; hence I'm not a Democrat, even if I vote Democratic more often than old Southern racists who're still registered Democratic even though they defected to the GOP 35 years ago.

[Paragon]

27. Thanks, Will.

Beyond tired of trying to beat that into the thicker skulls here.

[trumad]

32. And I'm beyond tired of screaming at Democrats without backbones!

On edit:

Actually I'm not hence this Thread!

God Damn it! Be a fucking Democrat and vote no to these fucking Repukes!

Oh..and by the way, If you're not a registered Dem then I'm not talking to you now am I?

[Paragon]

34. Then go bitch at Terry McAuliffe

My back's just fine. If I were in California, I *would* vote no on the recall...and yes on Arianna.

[trumad]

31. Wrong Pitt

If you vote for Rove and Issa then you're not a true Dem... I'm talking True fucking Democrat...not some pretender with pretend ideology.

If a person votes for this Repuke inspired recall and call yourself a Dem then you disgust me!

[WilliamPitt]

35. Your disgust does not = the end-all be-all of Democrathood

and besides, you're gonna lose to Houston today. Aren't you embarrassed? You're not a true Democrat if you lose to Houston. :)

[trumad]

37. Ya gotta a point there

;-)

[JohnKleeb]

64. Hey his team did lose

opinion on the topic at hand
I oppose the recall.

[redeye]

38. What's "true Democrat"?

"What I think" is not an appropriate response.

[robbedvoter]

44. Someone who holds civil rights (&right to vote) in high regard

Someone who will not stand for the rights of 50% of voters being potentially trampled by 10% (or SCOTUS) or cancelled by redistricting - not even for the wonderous prospect of having Arnie star as the governator or Arianna holding Gary Coleman on her lap at the debates!

[redeye]

47. Oh, I see

So letting the people decide whether they want to recall a governor or not is contrary to the right to vote?

[library_max]

60. It cancels a previous election for no good reason

If your point is that on any given day, the people of California should have the right to swap out their governor for whoever they like better at the moment, then you have a kind of hazy understanding of representative democracy.

Again, the recall law was designed to get rid of serious malfeasants, not to remove someone who isn't as popular any more as he was on election day. It's not there for "buyer's remorse."

[Shrek]

73. I'm not sure I would agree with that

The California constitution has this to say (emphasis added):

ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC. 14. (a) Recall of a state officer is initiated by delivering to the Secretary of State a petition alleging reason for recall. Sufficiency of reason is not reviewable. Proponents have 160 days to file signed petitions.

I'm sure that if the provision were drafted today it would likely include language to constrain the valid reasons for a recall. But reading the above it seems that at the time the drafters specifically intended for a recall to proceed for any reason whatsoever, given sufficient public support.

[Woodstock]

83. BUT - a big BUT - would they have gotten enough signatures

without Issa's money? How can we say this is true democracy in light of this?

Sounds like corruption of the intent of the law to me.

[library_max]

85. That simply prevents it from being challenged in a court of law.

It doesn't say anything about their intentions. Are you seriously suggesting that they wanted the recall provision to generate a new election every time the governor took a dip in the polls? Are you seriously suggesting that that would be a good thing?

[Terwilliger]

81. Like John Kerry??????? GET OVER IT!!!!

I guess you didnt get the memo!!!!

[T Bone]

40. I'm with you trumad

There is a Democrat in the Cali governorship. The attempt to remove him is a Republican power-grab and the overturn of an election by any means available. Democrats have to be made to see that Republicans right now will seek any means available to overturn legitimate elections. Republicans are using all the tools available in the system to attack the system itself.

I am not sure how we get around that other than to point out to the Dems who are being fooled by it that they are being had if they don't recognize it and go along with it.

[redeye]

42. Just like in 1992...

...when Clinton overturned the results of the legitimate election of 1988.

[robbedvoter]

45. If you do not see the difference between an election and

a "re-do" with funny rules, you are watching way too much Fux!

[redeye]

48. I don't watch TV at all...

...but then again it never mattered to the flocks of Republicratic sheep who differ from one another only in the tribe they belong to.

BTW, the recall is an election, too, you know. It's legal, it's ethical, and its rules are pretty common-sensical IMO (do you want the governor to be recalled? Okay, now who do you want to replace him?).

[library_max]

61. See post #60

On edit: sorry, intended to reply to post #48.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. Please explain how Clinton overturned the 88 election

[Terwilliger]

82. que???

what?

now what are you talking about?

He won the 92 election so he overturned the 88 election?

:shrug:

[TahitiNut]

39. Uh-huh. And "Everything I say is a lie."

Some people think a 'paradox' is two gynecologists. :eyes:

[Ardee]

43. Ta Da the truth at last....

Thanks Will, I scrolled down this thread hoping to find someone who might post the refutation of Trumad's rant....What the hell happened to the Democratic Party? What was once a party of disparite opinion ,noisily finding common ground amid spirited debate is now a party of narrow sectarian political correctness.....feh!

[JVS]

54. Nice

:thumbsup:

[salmonhorse]

41. The 'recall' is far more serious than NFL game-day...

It is here and approaching by way of the Rove 'white house'. Fuck the news @ 11; fuck the kick-off; "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke"; it had better be time to entertain a plan 'B'.

No on 'recall', Yes on Bustamante!

http://www.noonrecallyesonbustamante.com/

[Deja Q]

46. RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! *APPLAUSE* (and an additional)

Davis may or may not be the greatest governor ever, and Bustamente looks real cool (fuck Arnie for him having the nerve to say he's why California's in bad shape!), but Davis won by a larger # of votes.

And as we can't recall the dipshit-in-office* (aka Shrubbypants* or Bushbastard*), we mustn't recall Davis.

Now if Davis stepped down in 2004 and let Bustamente run, that might be interesting...

This one is controversial, but anybody who supports NAFTA and the upcoming FTAA is not a Democrat either! We've seen what NAFTA has done and FTAA is similar to NAFTA, only far worse.

[redeye]

49. Bustamante may look cool...

...but he supports the death penalty for children as young as 14. :puke:

[Deja Q]

51. Didn't know that

I'd love to know what sort of circumstances would accept the death penalty as punishment for him.

(For CERTAIN crimes of sheer horridness or viciousness, I am for the death penalty. It's sad we have to live in a society that needs it (or, rather, wants to maintain the status quo so we don't ever get rid of it), but I don't see American society improving any time soon. Getting a lot worse, maybe, but not better.

[redeye]

52. Basically for every crime there carries the death penalty now...

...only more stringently enforced, without moratoria, without additional safeguards, without pardons, and applied to offenders as young as 14. Given the sheer amount of innocent people who are sentenced to death (and who are sometimes subsequently released after an appeal), this is utterly fascistic, not to mention barbaric.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. BULL FUCKING SHIT!!!!! PLEASE POST PROOF!!!

It was a ballot proposition in California that made it possible to try minors as adults for certain crimes.

[mvd]

71. Does he support this?

I'm against the death penalty in all cases (IMO there's nothing more barbaric than killing, and it's hard for me to put a threshold on what's severe enough a crime), but right now I'm just interested in keeping a Democrat in power in CA.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

74. I have NEVER read that Bustamante supports the DP for 14 year olds

And REDEYE is the one who should post such proof from a credible source.

[not systems]

90. uncredible sources

Redeye has an ax to grind with Bustamante and attacks
him day in and day out.

I agree he should post links supporting his endless
smears or should be recognised for the sabotur he
appears to be.

[not systems]

88. So your worried.

If my personal opposition to the death penalty
ment never voting for anyone who didn't agree.

I would be like you.

Handing every election to the rightwingers to
increase my own moral self image.

Since your are basicly an anti-Democratic disrupter
a self confessed independent and couldn't have
supported any our candidates for president in years
why bother handing around puking out your moralistic
defeatist crap here everyday.

No recall. Yes Bustamante. No 54.

[JVS]

50. I would not support the Recall if I were in California

but this thread is flame-bait.

[RobertFrancisK]

53. The recall is a terrible idea

I have mixed feelings about Davis though. While I don't think the crisis is fault, I think he isn't a great leader. Every state is being hit hard by Bush's administration, and Davis really inherited this mess from his predecesor. However, I wish he wasn't such a penis so it would be easier to get behind him. Instead of saying what he'll do to fix the crisis as a defense for not recalling him, he's just blaming it on a republican conspiracy. That's not inspiring politics. True? Yes, but he should let pundits say that while he builds up his case for keeping him in.
But anyway, yeah the recall is such a stupid idea. I don't live in California, but I would vote no on issue 1, yes on bustamante.

[arcane1]

55. I'd vote "NO" even if Davis was a repube

simply because the recall effort was put together, IMHO, fraudulently, and against the spirit of the original recall law

[trumad]

56. OK...How about this... If you vote for this recall then you're a lousy

fucking Democrat! How's that?... Is that better?.... And you don't deserve to be a Democrat because you have supported Mr. Rove and his minions!

I see no way that you can justify supporting this recall created by republicans??? If you support it then you are supporting the folks who designed and financed this recall and there ain't no if's and or but's about it....

[ElsewheresDaughter]

57. i agree!

[Cheswick2.0]

59. those people supporting it are not democrats

they may be left, but that is different.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. If you support this recall and work for a living you are a FUCKING MORON

The main person on this thread jockeying for the recall is a college student who does not work for a living.

[Woodstock]

84. Funny isn't it? Sometimes we get into arguments on this board

and forget that not everyone is coming from things with the background AKA experience living that we assume they have, then suddenly, it dawns on us, OH! I've been arguing with a kid who thinks he/she knows it all (and doesn't want to hear he/she doesn't know it all.) Better to move on and let them live in their little world. One day, reality will come knocking. Only then will they know.

I found the quote I was looking for:

The fool doth think he is wise,
but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.

~William Shakespeare

[pinerow]

63. I Agree!!!!

nt

[mvd]

72. I happen to agree

Just on the principle that this is a Rove-generated dirty scheme.

[Lindsey]

75. Right -on trumad

You know what...I'm thinking that maybe you guys who don't even live here should just stay out of it. You obviously weren't here when Enron RAPED us in 2001 and Davis was blamed. You may not know that Davis is one of the most pro-gay Govenors we've ever had. HE F'ING WON THE ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE AND NONE OF THIS SHOULD BE HAPPENING. Jesus Christ!!!!!

[Woodstock]

76. That's one, here are more

1) Agree about the Issa financing making it all possible. They wouldn't have gotten enough signatures without it.

2) The Republicans won't wait until March when the regular election takes place. This means the plans to replace the punch card voting machines in largely Democratic districts was put on hold.

3) And this way it costs $32 million (last figure I heard) more money.

4) A Republican governor can do a lot of harm in a state, even if the Democrats control the rest of the government - putting up roadblocks for reproductive rights, the environment, health, taxes, etc.

[angka]

80. hell yes

someday this madness will end and a lot of people are going to feel pretty damn stupid.

[Capn Sunshine]

89. BLESS YOU TRUMAD

your lips to God ears
so many ignorant kooks on this very board say they are voting "yes" on the recall............