I am warming to a Hillary candidacy.

[MGKrebs]

The spouse and I have long felt that Hillary would draw more conservatives to vote than anybody else. But now I wonder...

Who is the equivelant on the other side? Who do liberals hate the most? DeLay? Wolfowicz? Rove? Whoever it is, how many more Dems would go vote just to make sure , say, Delay didn't get elected? To me, anybody who feels that strongly about it was going to vote anyway. The middle of the roaders aren't that passionate.

For a Hillary candidacy to be a problem, one would have to think that there is a signifiant number of people out there who wouldn't vote if it was a different Dem- i.e. they wouldn't care enough if it were Dean or Edwards or any number of others- but that Hillary enrages them and they must vote repub to make sure she doesn't get elected.

I ain't buyin' it.

Some time ago I signed up for the newsmax email list. I get about two messages a day, and probably about 90% of them have something about Hillary. I think this is fascinating. I can't believe that this is some kind of reverse psychology, in that Hillary is the candidate that they want because they have the best chance to beat her. That doesn't make sense. There has to be about 100 possible candidates with less recognition, power, support, and money than Hillary that they would have an easier time beating.

No, they continue to obsess on her because they FEAR her. I am beginning to think that they see Hillary as some of us see Rove- all seeing, all powerful, always pulling the strings from behind the scenes. They would be halfway beaten as soon as she announced!

Besides, I want to see the conservative reaction if/when Hillary leads in the polls. If they are this frothy now, I can't even imagine what they will be like then.

[Worst Username Ever]

1. I don't buy it.

Nothing hits the hot button for conservative like the name "Clinton." Hillary wouldn't get conservatives any more than Jeb Bush would get liberals to vote for him.

[cidliz2004]

8. "Bush" hits the hot button for the Democrats

and THAT didn't stop him.

[MGKrebs]

14. Right! As if conservatives are going to vote for ANY Dem.

Or liberals are going to vote for any conservative. Those in the middle aren't like that. I would think the Hillary bashing might even turn them off.

[leesa]

37. I wouldn't place any bets on that. Hillary is a warmonger and she has

supported or not spoken against MOST of what Bush did. Why don't we find someone decent to run? Let's face it. The people in the Senate have behaved very badly.

[AngryOldDem]

34. Agreed

If the Dems front Hillary in 2008, it will be another loss. Guaranteed. She would probably be the GOP's dream opponent, as a matter of fact.

[saltpoint]

2. I'm trying to picture Hillary out in Iowa --

-- for the primary, being driven around in a phalanx of pickups, visiting hog farms.

John Edwards, just to name one example, will bury Senator Clinton in the Iowa primary.

Edwards almost won it last time.

[cidliz2004]

9. Hillary has been in Iraq, Afganistan..visiting where the Tsunami

has hit. Don't let a few cornfields make you think that Hillary cannot adapt, besides she grew up next door to Iowa, Illinois. She is comfortable in the midwest and the midwest considers her one of their own.

[saltpoint]

12. It's possible.

But I don't think Red State America considers her one of them.

She's a Harvard gal with one of them ejukashuns under her belt.

It's been a long time since Hillary walked the soybean and cornfields of Illinois.

[phylny]

29. There are LOTS of farms and rural towns

right here in New York. My niece couldn't believe we have a "cow crossing" sign a mile from our house. Hillary deals with agriculture here in her own state.

I really like her as one of my senators. Having said that, I don't think she'd have a chance of winning the election in 2008.

[bobbyboucher]

3. Hillary/Obama wins and

would be the sweetest thing.

[Birthmark]

4. She will lose badly if she runs.

I won't vote for her - for a variety of reasons. I prefer a liberal, for one.

[MGKrebs]

13. Well that's a whole nuther story.

I prefer a populist myself. But then we are really talking about policies, not people.
There seems to be a difference between a 'candidate' and 'who would make the best President'. The candidate has to win. If we get the Party staightened out, the policies might get better. Think of the candidate as a 'talking head'.

[phylny]

30. If it came down to it, would you vote

for a Republican candidate over her? I'm just curious.

To clarify my position, I like her, and I would vote for her over any Reublican candidate if she if she were the Democratic candidate, but I don't think she would win.

[Birthmark]

41. I'd vote third party.

Green, as long as it's not Nader.

[phylny]

43. Then, you'd have no problem with a Republican winning?

Again, just a question, not meant to be snarky.

Thanks :)

[Tess49]

5. Redneck states like Oklahoma would never vote for her.

Sorry to have to say it, but it's true here and probably much of the South.

[IStriker]

17. All of the south, all of the border states, a hell of a lot of men, and me

I am sick and tired of the Clintons and all their Third Way friends. They don't even know anybody honest. If we don't take the party back from the crooks, then I'll be voting Green or something else.

[MGKrebs]

18. OK. So is there any Dem that OK would vote for?

Do we have to sell our souls to get those votes?

[theboss]

40. In the primary or general?

Because let's be honest, we are a long, long, long time away from a Dem winning in OK in a general election.

[cidliz2004]

6. Interesting Idea,

Last night thinking about Bill Clinton moving into the U.N. spot - replacing KOFI, The fact that elections can be fixed (we all have witnessed that in 2000 and 2004, and Hillary is the most recognizable Democrat.....well

Bill head of U.N., Hillary President of the United States...all of a sudden it seems quite possible and maybe even likely.

[IronLionZion]

7. Republican landslide bigger than Reagan's or Nixon's

Yes, Republicans hate her with the fire of a thousand suns, but do enough Dems love her across enough states to cancel that out? Fuck no!

Obama will have his time in the future but the winning ticket in 2008 will have a moderate from battleground or red state whether that person is Democrat or Republican.

[bpilgrim]

10. well, if she starts SPEAKING UP for OUR vote!

and show some OUTRAGE regarding TORTURE and PNAC, PATRIOT ACT, etc then i might start warm up to her.

though if we go by what the right wingers say - conventional wisdom - she'll never get in.

peace

[lazarus]

26. Amen

If a Senator doesn't stand up tomorrow, I'll never support them for any office again.

Two elections in a row, and not one Senator can be bothered?

Screw 'em.

[superconnected]

11. I always liked Hillary

I wanted her to run the last two times.

[I_Luv_Mao]

15. Me too

I really think Hillary gives us the best shot in '08. Who should her running mate be though? Personally, I think it should be Barrack Obama. This ticket would lock up the African American vote and the soccer mom vote.

I think I am on to something here.

[Piperay]

25. Yeah

you're on to picking a losing team, the exact team that the repukes hope we run so that they can beat our asses. x(

[HughBeaumont]

44. Why is it that no one LISTENS to us when we say this?

People, once again - THIS IS WHO THE PUKES WANT US TO RUN SO THAT THEY'LL HAVE A LANDSLIDE. Why will no one listen? It's a trap that nobody should be stupid enough to fall in. Let's be realistic.

You think ANY woman, least of all Hated Hillary, will win a single red state? NO. It will never happen in a million years. You're going up against centuries of steel-and-concrete grounded patriarchal thought processes. It AIN'T happening. Progressive people simply do not live in these areas. I'll even go so far to say you may see states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania turn red because of Hillary. Ah-HIGH-ah and Fla-duh will definitely remain red.

You're thinking emotionally and not realistically. I want to WIN, not ensure Rethuglican leadershit, warmongering and corporations getting their way six thousand fold continues for the next three decades.

[Ed C. Finley]

16. As I said before

If hillary makes an issue of immigration (legal/illegal) on environmental grounds (300 million people in this country is enough) lots of pissed off repubs will vote for her, along w/ all the dems and most women who would want to part of history, I thing she could win walking away.

Even though I disagree with most of the things she stands for, immigration is, to me, THE issue of the day. Most DUers would consider me conservative, tho I don't subscribe to the left/right, liberal/conservative political matrix that after all is based on where french deputies sat in parliament in the 1790s.

[Baclava]

19. Frogs

like to swim in warming water too...for awhile.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

20. Iraq war, bank ruptcy deform, patriot act, etc

all things she voted for. not to mention all the rw shit her husband's administration (which she was a part of) helped the GOP gingrich congress pass

hillary ensures i write nader in on my ballot

[MGKrebs]

21. President as figurehead.

As time goes by, it seems that 'we' judge our presidential candidates less and less on how well they would be President, and more on how good of a candidate they are.

If (granted, a big if), Hillary recognizes this, we don't have to have a candidate we liberals are completely happy with. If we are going to demand that, we may never win. We just have to control the Party, so that a good candidate, once elected will do the right thing. How much power does the President have anyway? Technically a lot, but not without a LOT of pressure form a lot of sources.

I am thinking that we may have to realize that our best "candidate" and our best "President" may not be the same thing. In order to win, the candidate has to appeal to a lot of people who don't really want to pay attention to politics. They are not going to know what a lot of what they hear means. What they hear has to appeal to them on some level other than detailed knowledge. Hillary is probably a pretty good candidate.

Anyway, we will get a big hint as to the direction of the Party when they have the chair election on, what is it, Feb. 12?

[Placebo]

22. H I L L A R Y ' 0 8

I've been on board with the idea for some time. :D

[stevedeshazer]

23. I love her

And she can never win. :(

[MGKrebs]

24. Imagine this scenario:

Dean as head of the DNC.
By 2006 the grassroots is getting cranked up pretty good. We have money and the progressive/populist message is pretty strong and consistent. And Hillary still leads all polls.

If we could have a reasonable amount of confidence that the will of the Party was progressive and dominant, does the technical record of the candidate matter that much?

In other words, if Pat Robertson controls the republican party, why should he care whether or not the President is truly a believer, as long as he acts like a believer?

[KG]

27. well, that would ensure a crushing defeat at the polls.

[noonwitch]

46. Not necessarily

Let's say in four years, we still haven't really made any progress in Iraq, and we have more threats from other countries.
In addition, the economy continues to tank, more people are unemployed, and the plan to change social security is a huge mess that no one ultimately wants to touch. On top of that, let's say that the Bush administration starts putting more and more of the Patriot Act into practice and a lot of non-pollitical people have their rights violated and get arrested for reading the wrong books or something.

Then, the GOP picks Cheney or some other Bushite (Jeb) as their candidate.

If things are bad, enough people might be willing to take a chance on President Hillary.

I'd vote for her because I think she'd be a good president. Most of her baggage is old news.

[JNelson6563]

28. Her capitulation to team bush

must have 'em just pissin' themselves. Not.

If you think it's wise to run someone who's had a 12 hard-core hate-mongering campaign run against them I have to disagree.

Julie

[FreeStateDemocrat]

31. Hillary represents masochistic tendencies of Demo Party to self-destruct

Let’s try not to lose with another Northeastern liberal senator with tons of baggage and that is hated by a sizeable minority of the country becomes it is really a imprudent idea? We did it because it was the left thing to do and that America is a better country for another disastrous democratic election cycle loss is not a really sound reason to run Hillary. Someone needs to state the obvious what are her CIC qualifications since it was a significant factor in the last election. She may only become a divisive factor in presenting a winning ticket in 2008 with her chances of winning over 45% of the vote being very slight. Her only chance would be with a McCain third party ticket and I would bet on McCain. If it looked like she might cause another 4 years of Bush (Jeb) I might even consider the lesser of two evil and vote McCain and I have never voted anything but democratic in forty years. My only hope is that we have a legitimate primary process without a stampeded frontrunner and that we are able to reunite for the general election after Hillary tries to make her case.

[hollowdweller]

32. I heard Hillary was studying under Byrd. Having a replacement for him

and a strong Democratic Senator that defends the Constitution and knows Senate rules is more important than having her as President. I think she should stay in the Senate for YEARS before she runs to establish a good voting record that she can use to buffer conservative attacks when she DOES run.

[sendero]

33. I'm cooling to it....

... a few months ago I thought it was a good idea. Then came the 2004 presidential election.

Hillary has less of a chance of becoming president than I do. She has so much baggage, so much red meat slander potential, they'll have Dems wondering if she's any good.

It would be nice to have her run and win, just to put the right in an apoplectic state - but she would never win, not even come close.

[CWebster]

35. In trying to curry political favor

Hillary already "sold her soul". Not only will she have to run with hubby's bad rep on the morals index, but she has alienated much of the base who is aware of her positions on the issues.

Rather than attempting to triangulate, she should have stood up with integrity since they will attack her for whatever she does. She is seen as an opportunist with naked political ambitions.

[greyfox]

36. Works for me....

and I am working on it here in NC.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Another DLC loser.

Why bother?

[Cervello]

42. What's With All The DLC Bashing?

Are moderates like me not welcome in the party anymore?

[CWebster]

45. If you were to study your own group's literature

and policy papers, it would become apparent that the DLC is more intent on emulating the Republican message and marginalizing Democrats who have more in common with the broad population rather than the corporate class.

[WolverineDG]

39. If she doesn't stand up & support Conyers

I'm NOT going to support her, or any other current Dem senator who puts their hat in the ring in 2008. You don't want to stand up for us NOW, I ain't giving you squat in 2008.

And that includes John Kerry. I'm still pissed at that email "I'm not going to be around, but please fight my battle for me." Screw you! Stand up for yourself dammit.

dg