The never-ending faith of loyal Democrats

[info being]

Time and again, we are let down by Democratic leaders. Yet as soon as the next promise comes along, we're all over it...and if that promise doesn't pan out, we'll find something else to believe in. And the cycle continues.

When, I ask, is the LAST CHANCE? For me, it was the 2004 Presidential election. I have no more faith. I think a lot of people feel this way. Now they have to earn my trust with action, not with promises. And they'll probably have to do it without the tremendous grass-roots support they have enjoyed for a few years now.

I hope I can remain a member of the Democratic Underground...because after all it is the UNDERGROUND not the party line.

[Child_Of_Isis]

1. My sentiments exactly.

They have lost a good portion of us.

[kuozzman]

2. Ditto. And ditto for the caller on CSPAN right now.

[Az]

3. Its true the party leaders are of no use any longer

But We The People still need to organise. DU is just as fertile a place as anything else (perhaps more so). We are not the name. We are who we are.

I have no tolerance left for the leaders of the party. But they are there at our say so. Rather than run away and look for another group I say we torch the current Dem party and take it back for ourselves.

[txaslftist]

14. DITTO, Az.

[txaslftist]

4. Sorry, info being, you ain't keepin' up with current events!

Check out what Ms. Boxer is doing on the front page. and have a little faith!

[BiggJawn]

5. Told a guy today that I was changing my party to Socialist

Fuck the DLC (ReTHUGlican Lite)
Fuck the money that I gave to John Kerry that could be of better use now paying my fuel bill.
Fuck Evan Bayh.

If i'm gonna throw in with a bunch of LOSERS they might as well be real losers, eh?

I'm frustrated and disappointed in the way the Democratic Party rolls over and pisses themselves like a neurotic puppy everytime Karl Rove barks.

Yes, I know Boxer was all butch and shit today, but it WON'T LAST.

[txaslftist]

11. IT WILL LAST IF WE MAKE ENOUGH NOISE!

I'm a democratic cheerleader, I'll admit. But don't give up! Don't be bleak and cynical and sad!

Tough times are coming. It's time to stand strong.

[bryant69]

6. Is it possible that you are focusing on the negatives

And ignoring the positives? I mean there's been a lot of dissapointments in the last few years, but some of these public servents have served for decades, and have fought many a fight for the people.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[jswordy]

7. You said it. They gotta PROVE SOMETHING to me now!

Notice how I wrote "they"? That's a bad sign, when to me it is no longer "we," but has degenerated into "they."

[Dr Fate]

8. Thats right- no more faith- I'll judge them by their works...

And no more "Staight DEM" voting for me either, after 15 years of doing it loyaly.

I'll support politicans of any party other than Repuke who support the truth and who are willing to bluntly, frankly & honestly take on the GOP/media.

You blew it DEMS- if you cant be unified to fight for your hard-working base, then I'm not going to be "unified" with you either.

[txaslftist]

9. You can't see the forest for the trees IMHO...

DU is getting trashed by MSM. Why? Because suddenly we aren't on the margin anymore.

Ms. Boxer is standing up, taking a stand no one on this site seriously thought a senator would take just two days ago, even though every thread looking at it was screaming for someone to do something. She LISTENED.

Howard Dean brought dynamism and in your face-ism to our party during his run. So what if he didn't sway the monolithic DLC and we got stuck with Kerry? He still brought in new energy, and this site is bringing in new ideas and new thought.

This is a surging, vibrant, up and coming movement of liberalism. Don't just say, 'they haven't gotten the job done, so I'm going Green or Libertarian or whatever'..

Come ON! Did they give up on civil rights when activists were getting killed in Mississippi? Did they give up on Vietnam protests after OHIO?

Did the Americans give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? -Animal House ref.

THIS IS NOT THE END! IT IS THE BEGINNING!

Surely you aren't ready to capitulate and live in a fascist state?

[annabanana]

10. DU and other progressive sites and groups

ARE the future of the Democratic Party. This is where the $ is now, so it's inevitable. The question is the timetable.

[txaslftist]

12. THE TIMETABLE and the WAKING UP.

You can see from my other posts that I am terribly enthusiastic about where our party is going. We have to wake up the leadership -especially the dinosaurs and weak-knees in the DLC- and let them know we are taking back the party.

[Sleepless In NY]

15. With the excepetion of Boxer....today was the end.

No more party loyalty for me. Like John Kerry, I have "learned". Could never vote for a republican, but the democrats we now have? Well I'd just rather not vote if that's the choice. Disgraceful for not one stinking day, they couldn't all stand together. Not for one day. Can you imagine? They can't stand together, yet I'm suppose to support them? Dream on.

[txaslftist]

21. You've got no where else to go.

You can't lose faith in our leaders just because they've lost faith in themselves. We can bring them around, make them stand up like Ms. Boxer.

Make them stand up for us!

I swear, the next time and every time I see one of these 'I've lost faith forever in the party' threads I'm going to flame it. You should flame it, too.

The party is making a comeback. A comeback to power and a comeback to it's ideals. So the DLC has lost touch. Haven't we all lost touch from time to time? We can bring them back on board.

Send them letters! Demand a renewed, vigorous progressivism & liberalism. They have to listen, because this place, DU, is the new center of the democratic base. This is where the money is.

Criminey. Didn't everyone realize that the idea of big business interests supporting the Democratic Party was artificial, weird and phony?

We are the little guys, the employees, not the employers. Here is where true democratic money comes from, just like here is where the power comes from.

[Sterling]

29. People have plenty of places to go.

Third parties will benefit from this sentiment but I suspect many people will just give up or at least shift the focus they used to on politics to other more directly tangible aspects of their lives.


The "you have no where else to go" defense will only send people running for the door at a faster place.

[txaslftist]

34. So what am I supposed to say?

Don't let the door hit you in the back?

Now is the time to join the democratic party, not time to leave it.

If you want to make a change, if you want to challenge the authority of the wannabe fascists, if you want to stand up to the reichwingnuts, you have to do it as a democrat, or you won't be taken seriously.

If you want to go somewhere else as in, throw in the towel and give up on politics, then who needs that kind of swishy-washy activism anyway? That's like the 60s activists who traded in their political consciousness for a pair of Nikes and a banana latte.

If you want to make a difference, then you have no place to go other than here. DU is making a difference.

[annabanana]

22. so make it "us" not "them"

get 'cher self down to the local Dem club, bring a couple of friends and shake them up!

[txaslftist]

23. Exactly, annabanana!

:yourock:

you rock!

[Dr Fate]

16. I never said I was giving up. I'm supporting the progressive values...

...that you speak of. Always have, always will.

I'm only giving votes, donations and volunteer time to politicians who are unafraid to support the truth.

If those politicans happen to be DEMS, then great.

DEMS who want to pussy-foot around will not get my votes, money or volunteer time-DEMS and other progressives who agressivly FIGHT the GOP/media will.

So whats wrong with that?

Just think of it as me giving "tough love" to DEMS rather than the blind support I've given them for the past 15 years.

[txaslftist]

18. You're only going to find your kindred spirits here, Dr. Fate...

You won't find them elsewhere. Sure our so-called leaders are too cautious. Cautious is what you get when you've got a majority or a power base to lose.

We've lost that. Now it's time to get aggressive. Aggressive is what you and I and most DUers want.

So lets show them that Colorado is the rule, not the exception. Let's show them that aggressive democratic populism is the antidote to Reichwing extremism.

But get enthusiastic!

Shout and scream like Dean!

[Dr Fate]

24. "here" as in DU or the Democratic base, I know that.

And I will only support DEMS who are as passionate about truth-telling and FIGHTING the GOP/media as DUers and the base is.

In other words, I will only support REAL DEMS & progressives- not mealy mouthed pussy-footers who happen to have a "D" behind their name.

[txaslftist]

13. But faith comes BEFORE works!

You have to start with faith, then take action based on that faith, then it will translate into WORKS and RESULTS.

Now is not the time to give up on the democratic party. The democratic party is making its post 2004 comeback. Why do you think this site locks up so much recently due to high volume?

Because people are coming to see what we represent. I DON'T represent surrender to the friggin' fascists, I can tell you that.

[Dr Fate]

20. I have not given up on REAL, agressive, truth-telling Democrats.

I wrote a check to Conyers & Boxer today, in fact.

I'll support REAL DEMS and progressives who fight the GOP/media.

Pussy-footing, FAKE DEMS will get NOTHING from Dr Fate.

Perhaps they will "see the light" and come back to the fold (since we are using religious metaphors here)

Dr Fate aint the problem- I've persoanlly raised $12,000 in cash for the DNC, campaigned on street corners, set up Young DEMS chapters in 3 different states, knocked on about 1000 doors, and made about 8,000 phone calls over the past 4 years.

*I'm* not the one who is giving up-
I'll still do all these things and more for agressive, truth telling progressives- hopefully many of them will be DEMS.

[txaslftist]

25. That's what I want to hear!

I knew with as many posts as you have you weren't giving up!

:yourock:

YOU ROCK ON, DOCTOR FATE!

[Dr Fate]

27. I'm with you Tex, dont get me wrong...

I'm just not supporting DEMS who I feel are not the "real deal"- I feel that this is the best way for me to strengthen the party and the agenda, and send a message to DC.

Hopefully we can all work this out.

I'm with ya pal- I'm not throwing away 15 years of hard work- I just hope it all works out.

I sure do appreciate your enthusiasm and hopefullness- keep it up!!!

[txaslftist]

30. I gotta go home, now....

Next time we talk I'll get you back to straight ticket voting!

[txaslftist]

17. Can't we make the 'underground' the party line?

Or are we too wimpy and disappointed to try?

[dolo amber]

19. I got your back

Although I felt this way pre-election...pretty much post-Iowa, if you will...

:hi:

[prolesunited]

26. *We* are the party

Karl Rove thanks you for this thread


We should take a lessen from the neocons and the rabid right. They didn't splinter off into third parties, they seized control of their party from WITHIN.

We're a hell of a lot smarter than them. Why can't we do the same thing?

Sure, you may have some success with third parties at the local and perhaps state level, but it's a third party will NOT win national offices, particularly the presidency. It's just not the way things are structured.

I'm not advocating we sell out out, but that we make them accountable to us. We have to make enough noise and DEMAND that they listen to us, not skulk away.

The people who are in control know didn't quit after the first few rounds. They continued to make noise and that's why they

[txaslftist]

28. Right on, Proles!

this is a long fight, demanding patience. Now is the time to join the party, not leave it.

Who else will be a bastion against the Reichwingnuts?

I mean an effective bastion, not a pyrhhic one like the Greens and the Libertarians.

[Sleepless In NY]

31. prolesunited and democrats are winning the presidency?

excuse me, but didn't all of them but one, just vote that bush was duly elected? So it doesn't seem democrats are making too much progress attaining that office, does it? Today was a perfect oportunity for them to stand together, but did they? No! Why? Do you have any idea how many phone calls I made yesterday? After their actions (or non action) today, how do you suggest we get them to "listen" to us when they are all to busy covering their own a***. I'd really like to know. PS. Karl Rove doesnt need this thread to make him happy, he hopes we keep those wimps in office forever, they certainly are no threat to him.

[txaslftist]

32. That's right, sleepless. Wake up.

It's time to get some coffee and get on with the business of taking back the party. Ms. Boxer listened. We must rally around her and show the rest of the dems how we reward standing up, so they will too. They are just like anyone else. When its in their interest, they listen. And THANK YOU for making the phone calls.

We need more like you.

:yourock:

[NuttyFluffers]

38. you and others can work on the constructionist work

i and others will work on the deconstructionist work.

thanks for your enthusiasm, it'll be well needed for the battle 'you' have ahead in the party.

i myself, and sounds like many others, have another battle in divorcing from the party and letting entropy take its course and cull the foolish.

best of luck to you and the democrats. let us know when the party is fixed and leave a backdoor open.

[prolesunited]

33. You're NOT listening to what I'm saying

I don't want the wimps we have in office right now any more than you do. You're right. Most of them do NOT pose a threat.

What I am saying is that we have to work to seize control of the party from within, get rid of the wimps and put people who will fight for us in office.

We have shown what we are capable of and the organizing and fund-raising capacity that we have through the Internet. We need to build on that capacity and not throw our hands up and walk away.

Like it or not, it is a two-party system.

[Hephaistos]

35. Disagree

it doesn't seem democrats are making too much progress attaining that office, does it?

John Kerry got more votes than any other presidential candidate in history save one. John Kerry won a higher percentage of the electorate than Bill Clinton in 1992. That's pretty good progress against a sitting president.

Karl Rove doesnt need this thread to make him happy, he hopes we keep those wimps in office forever, they certainly are no threat to him

It saves him the bother of having to hire and pay operatives to discourage and divide the Dem base.

What the Dems did in 2000 was stupid and self-defeating. What they did in Congress yesterday was exactly what they should have done given their options.

[IrateCitizen]

36. A presidential election does not a party make...

John Kerry's campaign continued the drift to the center-right that the Democratic Party has been taking for over two decades now -- ever since the reign of the "Great Communicator" and the triumph of conservatism. He didn't directly confront the fallacies of "free" trade. He didn't directly confront the inequities in the work force and the worsening of the ever-growing income gap. He didn't offer a true alternative vision to our increasingly militaristic foreign policy. All he offered was a "better bureaucracy" to manage these things more effectively -- nothing approaching an alternative vision. Sure, Bush was a sitting President in a time of war. But polls indicated that most Americans believed that America was headed in the WRONG direction under Bush. If Kerry had dared to define himself by standing apart from Bush, rather than letting Bush define who he was, he just might be President-elect today.

Furthermore, I don't think we did all that swimmingly in House and Senate races this year. In fact, we did abysmally. While there are some bright spots (CO, MT, etc.), those are on the STATE level. The Democratic Party on the national level is adrift, bereft of ideas, and a completely ineffectual opposition. All the braying to the contrary won't do anything to change this fact.

[IrateCitizen]

37. The Democratic Party represents business interests, not the people

Those of us who still cling to the idea that the Democratic Party is some kind of "party of the people" are only deluding themselves. While the Democrats championed some reforms at various times in our history, the vast majority of those reforms came about out of agitation more than from the bottomless courage of Presidents and lawmakers.

For instance, look at an exchange detailed by Mark Hertsgaard in his book, The Eagle's Shadow -- How America Fascinates and Infuriates the World. In it, he relates a conversation he had with a Dutch businessman friend of his prior to the 2000 US Presidential election. This Dutchman had just voted for the right wing party in his own election, but hoped that Al Gore would win the US Presidency. When Hertsgaard asked him why, he said that even the most right-wing, pro-business party in the Netherlands was STILL to the left of both parties in the United States.

We don't have a viable major left party in the US. We never really have. The closest we came was the New Deal, but the policies of FDR could probably best be described as slightly left-of-center, when compared with other governments in the industrialized world.

With the rise of conservatism and the embrace by Democrats of many of the assumptions of the Reagan era, we now live in a country in which the political parties largely represent the reactionary right (Republicans) and the center-right (Democrats). Both parties champion free trade, market fundamentalism, minimizing government involvement in the marketplace (at least on the side of workers), militaristic foreign policy, and so on. While I readily admit that there are Democrats in Congress who fight against these things, they are largely relegated to permanent backbencher status. The true movers and shakers in the Democratic Party all embrace this corporatist agenda.

The main difference between the parties seems to be that Republicans want to force a combination of rigid religious fundamentalism and brutal, unrestrained corporatism on the United States. Democrats, OTOH, eschew religious fundamentalism and are in favor of a slightly less brutal version of corporatism. But at the essence, both endorse corporatism. And so long as money rules the game, they will both continue to endorse corporatism.

I still plan to vote for Democratic candidates. And for some of the better ones, I'll even send them a few dollars here and there. But I think that one lesson that should be gleaned from this election is that energy and resources are too valuable on the left for us to divert them from meaningful, important causes (i.e. stopping the war on Iraq, fighting the rising tide of corporatism, advocating economic justice, etc.) to the candidacy of a person who only proposes a continuation of the status quo, albeit with a few tweaks here and there. True progressive change will not come by backing a candidate promoted by monied interests every 4 years. True change will only come as the result of people dedicating themselves to the possibility and hope for that change, without any timetable placed on its realization.