Does Anyone Else Feel Abandoned By Their Party?

[CO Liberal]

I do.

Why did only ONE Senator have the guts to vote to reject Ohio's Electoral Votes?

Is our Party symbol going to change from a donkey to a man bending over?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. How about by "their country"? nt

[MichiganVote]

14. Yup. This place has become a colossal rip off.

[talonlm]

33. Delta's Ready When You Are!

Do something about it rather than whining. You're feeling abandoned because the democratic party couldn't pull off what should have a simple win. Did you vote? Did you help out the local election committee? Did you talk with voting-age family members?

And why didn't the Democratic party put out a better line? "Wrong War, Wrong time?" Please! The war is the last thing you wanted to hit on. I've been there. I know the ground situation. I've dealt with the locals. So have something like three hundred thousand other folks, far too many still there. You (the democratic party) were dangerously close on many occasions to denigrating the sacrifice of a lot of people. Something more along the lines of "That's a fine mess you've gotten us into, Mr President" would have been far better. And then drop it. And then hammer him on the jobs. Education. Immigration. Welfare. Social Security. The economy was too well off to really go after, given everything the country has endured these last four years. And then have a decent, well-thought out, well-stated policy on what you're going to do to fix these problems and run the country would have gone a lot farther.

Before you cast me off as some trolling republican, I'm an independent who really just didn't see Kerry as a good alternative. I gave it a lot of thought. I studied up on both of them. I don't care for the job Bush has put out. But Kerry just didn't strike me as the right man for the job. Looks nice, spoke very well, but had no solid message. He really just struck me as a political hack looking for his next job. Edwards would have been a far better choice.

[LearnedHand]

36. Nevertheless...

...Kerry was who the party annointed. I agree that the message was often muddled, and maybe he wasn't the best we could have done, but Kerry sure as hell would have at least arrested the slide toward facism we're currently in.

If you voted for Bush in spite of having "studied up" on it, then you didn't do your homework very well.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[talonlm]

45. Game On!

If you voted, you've got a right to bitch. No arguments there. And good on you for backing up what you say. Too few people around like that anymore.

I don't know that Bush or Rumsfeld lied; personally, I do think they knew more than they revealed. It's a hunch, but I've got no proof. What evidence do you have? I know that when I was there (May-Jul '03), everyone there was still very concerned about the WMD threat. I also know that the missiles shot into Kuwait were treated as WMDs until proven otherwise. The Iraqis also flew a drone into Kuwaiti airspace (not real sure where / when or who shot it down) but they treated that one with kid gloves, too. Everyone who was there was convinced he had them. I was as surprised as anyone when no one found more than a few old mustard gas rounds and empty shells.

I'm not making any plans to leave. Why would you tell a fellow American citizen to leave? Aren't you aware that it takes many citizens to make a democracy work? If you're telling me to leave because I don't share all of your beliefs, that smacks fascism. Isn't that what we're trying to avoid?

And, as for the "Nice of you to share whatever the hell you have not done" comment, well, I'm certain I've done a good bit more than you in the military in war zones all over the world in the last sixteen years, most of them under a Democratic president, so you'd do better just to leave that one alone.

[MichiganVote]

49. Bush is a liar

"I don't know that Bush or Rumsfeld lied; personally, I do think they knew more than they revealed. It's a hunch, but I've got no proof. What evidence do you have?"

- I've got something better. Something called common sense. George Bush and oil. George Bush and the Suadi's. George Bush and his father. The lack of oil in the US at a time when China and India are rapidly outstripping countries in the need and use of oil. George Bush and Israel. George Bush and the neoconservatives. The list goes on brother, as long as your arm. Bush has lied about WMD all along.

"I'm not making any plans to leave. Why would you tell a fellow American citizen to leave? Aren't you aware that it takes many citizens to make a democracy work? If you're telling me to leave because I don't share all of your beliefs, that smacks fascism. Isn't that what we're trying to avoid?"

- I didn't ask you to leave. I put you on ignore. Then I took you off to answer you and next you're going back on snooze. Stay as long as you like pilgrim. Enjoy the view.

"And, as for the "Nice of you to share whatever the hell you have not done" comment, well, I'm certain I've done a good bit more than you in the military in war zones all over the world in the last sixteen years, most of them under a Democratic president, so you'd do better just to leave that one alone."

- 1. I was talking about the latest election and the fact that you have nothing to offer about what you did to elect a Dem.. 2. If you have truly served in the military then you would know, as I do, that service does not entitle you to anything special. If you didn't get that lesson then you didn't serve anybody anywhere.

Like I said, this adminstration is full of it. I believe it and so should you.

[Swamp Rat]

43. So, did you vote for Bush?

Do you support him or do you think Bush is a war criminal, thief, etc?

Do you know what is PNAC? Do you support the PNAC agenda?

Welcome to DU and good luck!

[talonlm]

46. Yes

[Swamp Rat]

47. Get your ass to Iraq NOW!

To do otherwise would be cowardly and un-American.

No excuses for prior service, age, sex, or gayness!

edit: I say this because you voted for Bush. Support your choice for leader! We wants you to fight for his oil!... get going!

[MichiganVote]

50. Absolutely Bushfan, go to Iraq. Your leader needs you--badly

[quiet.american]

2. My glass is half full here

I would have felt abandoned if a repeat of the 2000 Senatorial silence had happened.

[txaslftist]

40. Me too.

[NurseLefty]

3. Mmmmm Hmmmm.

:-(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Honestly here's why I don't feel abandoned

I do think Democrats are thinking of the future by not contesting the election more fiercely.....IF and it's a real big IF we are to get back to power and slow this parade of horribles down, it will not be by telling them exactly how to undermine us once we get there.

Face it, the manner in which districts are gerrymandered guarantees Repubs power through 2010 till the next census...do we really want to set a precedent for this kind of challenge indefinitely when they hold majorities in both houses and WILL use it on us...only MORE and possibly successfully?

[Pegleg Thd]

8. We have not only

been abandoned but totally screwed for the remainder of my life time by the McAuliffe gang of repuke lites posing as democrats.

[OrwellwasRight]

17. Yeah, but

just because we don't "so it to them" does not mean they won't "do it to us." They have engaged in the worst kind of partisanship since 1994 and have done things the Dems never did to them (e.g. holding the Medicare debate open for three hours in the middle of the night; not inviting Dems to be on conference committees, not releasing bills 72 hours before votes are held- I could go on). Do you think they really have gallantry and will hold back just because we did?

I don't.

[ohioliberal]

5. I do feel somewhat abandoned

I keep asking myself why the rest of them didn't come on board with Barbara Boxer. They talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.

[davidwparker]

6. Yes, but for a party that's been spineless, I'm giving

them some room. I want to see who is DNC chair and what actually gets done about voting before 2006. If nothing, them I'm Green.

[codegreen]

7. fuck 'em. i'm going Green, i think. my opinion & vote don't matter anyway,

so i might as well go with a party that listens to its base.
only Dean as DNC chair will keep me a Democrat; again, not that i matter worth a crap. and don't think for a moment that any of us do.

[n2mark]

20. If you go green

that only weakens the Dems which only splits us more. I am at the point that my vote does not count, but I will support the Dem party only because I will not give strength to the pukes. This is what they want, they want to get rid of the Dems, so they can rule entirely. I won't give them that power. I'll continue to be a Dem supporter.

[DemGirl7]

23. I agree...

that is the main reason why I don't support the Greens and such...I also don't support them because I realize that it's a lost cause voting for a third party, and they kinda have no chance in hell in winning..that is why I continue to support the so called lesser of the two evils...

[seemunkee]

28. So what?

Like my voice is being heard now. I might as well vote my conscience than vote for someone who doesn't listen to me. I've written and called about a number of issues that I care about over the years and my reps rarely vote for what I believe. I'm going back to the left where I started and where I feel I belong.

The form for changing my party affiliation just finished printing.

[txaslftist]

41. damn...then who are you writing to?`

We are the party, silly boy. We're listening.

[seemunkee]

48. What's your point? Are you my representative?

Do you vote for me in the house, senate, state house? Those are the people that I want to hear me. But for all I see I might as well piss in the wind.

[Orangepeel]

9. personally, I'm fine with what happened today.

I sure didn't expect anything more than a symbol, and as symbols go, the objection and speeches were pretty good.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Well, put your energy into LOCAL election reform :^)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Election reform can help save this country!
Same day primaries with ranked voting ballots for the Dems, and
THESE reforms for your town, county, and state.
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[Nevernose]

11. The other 47 wanted to get reelected?

Just brainstorming here...

[lastknowngood]

18. Yea it's worked so well for the last 12 years. If they want to get

reelected why not just switch parties and make simple.

[Nevernose]

51. Ouch! Okay, point taken.

You are correct that there is entirely too much "getting along" taking place, and not nearly enough fighting for what's right. The lyric comes to mind, though:

"If you go carrying pictures of Chariman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow"

It's a losing fight. We might as well pick a symbolic loser who is guaranteed reelection than sink the entire party.

And yes, I consider myself a pragmatist.

[LibDemAlways]

12. Bending over

while kissing repuke ass.

Vote fraud is apparently no big deal to the majority of Dems in the House and Senate.

The rotting corpse of our democracy, which died 12/12/00, was finally buried today. We have not just been abandoned. We have been orphaned.

[whistle]

13. Yes, I do, because what I hearing is we should either get...

...along with republicans (be a door mat) or stoop to the low level of the republican tactics of lies, deceit and deception. Either way, we loose our souls. Sorry, I will take neither.

[ohioliberal]

15. I think we need to get rid of the electoral college

and make it a popular vote, isn't that the way other countries do it? This debate today in my opinion will not do anything to change the next election. We all know this election was stolen, but the repukes could care less they have their man at the top. Right now I'm so pissed I could scream...argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AlbizuX]

16. yes...

spineless bunch a biatches.

[Selatius]

19. Look at US history in the last 60 years

(Begin pissed off rant)

It is a history of duplicity on apart of our Democratic leaders, not to mention the shit that went on with Republicans as well. They would claim to free blacks from segregation yet overthrow democratically elected governments in other countries for the sake of power and control. They would give you health care yet support bloody dictators in your name. They would say they stand up for liberty yet drop millions of tons of bombs on people who are fighting for freedom from foreign hegemony 10,000 miles away. The Democratic Party claims to be the liberal hope for this country, yet its actions over the last several decades have shown it to be a party of hypocrites and careerists leading the faithful deaf and the blind who buy into the notion that their party is better because of ideology nevermind the blood soaked history its leaders have forged. It is a history of liberals voting for the Democratic Party in the hopes that they would stand up for their values only to see that they would repeatedly be abused and betrayed and sold-out over and over again for the sake of greed and power.

If you want to see change, then be the fucking change you wish to see. Stop relying on people thousands of miles away in D.C. to do things in this country. Stop looking for heroes who will lead you. You only succeed in finding martyrs instead of leaders (MLK, JFK, RFK, etc.). You've got to stand up together and do it for yourselves. It's got to be hand-in-hand where each one of you is a leader in your own right. It cannot be another game of follow-the-leader; that just causes too much grief when all you do is end up burying your leader in a graveyard. It must be from the ground-up where it's based on an idea, not an organization based around some charismatic figure who is destined to be cut down by an assassin's bullet.

(End pissed off rant)

[hansolsen]

21. True. N/T

[omulcol]

31. Then continue to rant Selatius ....

because you have said something incredibly sensible and worthwhile.

I'm anticipating how many would respond !




:toast:

[damntexdem]

22. Not quite yet.

I'll wait to see who gets named chair of the DNC. Think of the range: from Dean to Frost. If it's Frost, then I won't be abandoned by the Party, because I will abandon it first.

[Stew225]

24. My father has to be rolling over in his grave

because of the way the Democratic Party has become. I am definitely going to register Independent. Maybe he'll roll back.

[Politicub]

25. I resolve to work harder to change the democratic party from within

IMHO, even with its staggeringly-large warts, it's still the best vehicle we have to take our country back.

I'm proud to share the same political party as the magnificent Senator Barbara Boxer.

[cruadin]

26. I didn't hear very many of the Senators' comments...

this afternoon (work sucks), but I did hear some of Hillary's and Barack Obama's comments.
My main impression in listening to those two was that they were trying to phrase their comments in a way that would keep them "electable". By that I mean, that they are trying to placate their core constituency without seeming to be too far out of the "mainstream."
There has been a calculation in the national party that the Ohio fraud issue is not going to appeal to a broad enough swath of voters to make it worth fighting for.
Whether or not the Party Leaders announce that fact, the actions of the likely 2008 candidates makes that the only logical conclusion.

Do I feel abandodned by that realization?---yes.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. great response

When our leaders worry more about what we think, than what their opponents think, then we will see a mighty party reemerge. Until then, we must work through the sell-outs and lavish praise where due (such as Boxer and Kucinich(sp?)), then perhaps the Democrat leaders will see who we want as a leader!

[sundog]

27. I feel the party leaders are not communicating with their supporters...

I have been upset today, and I could not put my finger on the real issue.

I support the party financially. Unfortunately, I feel I am out on the sidewalk trying to second guess the party's strategy. Why should any of us (as loyal supporters) be left in the dark?

Good communication must exist in any healthy relationship - from family to business to politics.

Bad relationships are most often based on bad communication.

Communication breakdowns unfortunately lead to mistrust. Therein lies our current rift.

I don't think it's fair of the reps to leave the supporters out of the loop.

I think people are so upset today because once again we have been excluded from the dealings of our own party.

Bottom line: Communication. Communication. Communication.

[journalist3072]

29. YES I DO

It's not very hard to do the right thing in this country, and we should have had Democratic Senators falling all over themselves to do the right thing today.

God Bless Barbara Boxer.

One of the main reasons I USED to be proud to be a Democrat, was because I felt as though Democrats were far more concerned with the best interests of the country, than their own political power. Now, I feel like they've become just like Repugs: focused on their own power and not much else.

I am sad, and really considering switching my party affiliation to Independent.

But again, God Bless Barbara Boxer for doing the right thing.

[Terror Sell]

30. I don't think they realize how badly they've wounded the party

with their acquiescence. This is the first time in my life - and I've been around awhile - I've ever, EVER, considered not being a democrat. But I'm seriously thinking about bailing now, and I know I'm not alone. I think our "leadership" has done more to shatter us then the GOP has. After two stolen elections and the Bush administration horrors they did nothing to stop, the thrill is gone. I don't know who the democrats are anymore. As much as it pains me to admit it, maybe Nader was right about the dems being nothing more than the flip-side of a bad penny.

[Gloria]

32. Well, while my enthusiasm is at about -2, I am waiting to see

how they fight key battles. I didn't see the Gonzolez hearings but heard that Leahy and Kennedy did fairly well. Don't know if it's true.

Next is Soc. Sec. If Baucus has bolted that's great. But I want to see which Dems sign on to this crap. They will be on the shit list.

[OneBlueSky]

34. absolutely . . . when the party's choice is between . . .

standing up for the people (us) and complete submission to their corporate masters (them), we lose every time . . . next up: Social Security and tort reform . . . watch and learn . . .

[the Princess]

35. When the Russian people become more American and

fight for their country more than we do - something is drastically wrong.

Our government and our country has been taken away from us - but never forget the people we elected to protect and fight for us - rolled over. Plain and simple.

The Dems have fallen apart and those that want to remain in politics have become Repugs-lite.

I'm disgusted and angry - and I really couldn't care less about Democratic leadership anymore - they ALL, every fucking one of them - turned their backs on us all when we needed them most. TWICE!!!!

How many times do YOU want to be butt fucked??

I'm done with it.

Now what will be interesting is to see how many jump party and become Repugs. My best guess is Hillary will be the first one. I wanted to support that bitch. No more.

[hvn_nbr_2]

37. Wow

Thread after thread today is just like this one. People who've been Dems all their lives, people who poured out their time, energy, and money, feeling screwed and abandoned. I'm thinking that if just one prominent member of the CBC says, "Enough, f***ing enough of being taken for granted, dumped on, and abandoned, I'm becoming a Green," it would start a snowball effect. Today may have been the death knell of the Democratic Party. We haven't had a party lineup change in 150 years. Maybe it's time.

[txaslftist]

42. Maybe it isn't, Rush.

I know you've got your hopes up for the death knell of the party, but we're still here and we'll keep fighting.

[txaslftist]

39. Not me...

I am a part of my party.

I'll feel abandoned when I no longer feel that way.

Our leaders are trying the best they can in uncertain times to feel their way forward, afraid of losing the 5 senate seats that mean disaster. Complete and utter disaster for the people and the party.

Can we cut them some slack, please?

[CO Liberal]

52. I'm Not Feeling That Generous

We need some leaders with spines and balls.