What did you expect to happen?

[Still_Loves_John]

Earlier today, when I saw that Barbera Boxer had signed on to the house objections, allowing debate over the Ohio count in the senate, I thought everyone here would be overjoyed. Because that's what everyone here was hoping for, right? An opportunity for a forum to register all of our complaints about discrepencies in our voting system, hopefully laying the groundwork for some real reforms to get pushed through congress. A good day for the Democrats.

Then I logged onto DU. I have to say I was surprised. I mean, did anyone here actually think that the objections would be anything less than symbolic? What did you expect would happen? That the senate would overturn an entire election? Lets go over a few things:

1. Republicans control congress. I don't see why some people can be so mad at Democrats for not voting with Boxer, since it's not like their votes would have made a difference anyways.

2. Even if we did have a majority, not ratifying the electors would be such an abuse of power that the democrats would be through as a political party.

3. Even if you truly believe that Bush lost Ohio, theres still no way to prove it. This election was lost, and yes, there were voting irregularities, but so far nothing large enough to tilt the election. That's not to say that the voting irregularities are not a problem, of course, but we can't fix anything retroactively. We have to focus our attention on reforming voting by the next election, instead of trying to redo this one.

[Erika]

1. Uh, Respectfully,

You don't understand. Very few, if any, thought the election would be overturned. What was hoped for was a serious vote on the need to reform elections by not voting for certification. No, there is no solid proof that Bush stole Ohio, but neither is there solid proof that Peteron killed his wife and baby.

The action today was a push for reform tomorrow. Every Republican, to the person, chose status quo on elections. They prefer their power to honesty and power to the voters.

[Still_Loves_John]

2. But the protest itself was a sign of reform tomorrow

Of course the republicans were going to vote to ratify the electors, because this is basically a ceremonial act, and disrupting it would only embarras their guy. It's in no way a sign that Republicans will block real electoral reform, though I'm by no means saying that they WILL be behind it. I'm just saying that this doesn't really mean anything as far as that is concerned.

I wasn't really talking about the Republicans, though. I was talking about how so many people here are angry at congressional Democrats over a protest vote. There was no need for the Democrats to all stand behind this objection when it is just as symbolic as the rest of the proceedings. People here are acting like this would have actually affected something.

And really, there were only 70 odd senators voting today. Most of the Democrats stayed home, which is just as much a sign of protest.

[jdj]

6. The only good thing about it was it hasn't happened since

1877 and therefore it will always be denoted as such in history books.

I love the two women in question for doing this.

As they say "in politics, if you want something said, ask a man, if you want something done, ask a woman."

[eleny]

3. You were hoping for a serious vote?

Let me hold my side.

What I expected and got was one House member and one Senator heap some tarnish on the silver and add rust to the iron. The mandate has been eroded and the bloom is off the stink weed.

From here on out they can have their parties and he can puff up his chest at his inaugural. But they got stink bombed and they know it. That's what I expected and that's what I got.

The icing on the cake was that it was two women who got the job done.

[Still_Loves_John]

8. Thank you

You said what I wanted so say, just more eloquently.

Everyone reading this thread: reply to her, because I'm dumb and rambling.

[eleny]

9. Your not dumb nor rambling

We're all speaking from the heart about being realistic. Seriously, we need changes in the Party. We're all responsible for being complacent and letting things get to this point.

But when something major happens like today, I'm not going to kick a can down the road as if what happened is not enough. This hasn't happened since the 1870's for pity sakes.

I don't have to give the Party a thin dime. But I'll give to the Dems and maybe even Greens and others of my choice. And although I live in Colorado, I won't be giving Salazar any dough. My support will go to folks like Tubbs-Jones, Boxer and the others who voted the way we wanted today.

Hugs :hug:

[Redneck Socialist]

4. I think you're missing the point.

Few if any thought the election would be overturned.

What we had hoped for was a show of resolve by the Democratic leadership. If the Democrats, as a unified whole, stood up and said we are not going to accept bush's lying corrupt program anymore they could have sent a very powerful symbolic message to both the pubs and the Democratic rank and file. They could have clearly stated that they intend to fight the bush regime.

Instead we got 'oh the system is broken but we accept the results of that system.' That is disillusioning and demoralizing. We need better than that.

[Robbien]

5. What I expected was what exactly did happen

I never expected the electorial vote to change.

What I hoped was that there would be a spotlight shown on the voting problem so that it could be fixed for 2006. Here is where I disagree with you, there was no spotlight, no hope for a fix.

[drm604]

7. There was no way of overturning this election at this point

but I would have liked to have seen every Democrat in the House and Senate vote to reject Ohio. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of course but it would have actually gotten the attention of the media and, I think, really energized the base. Everybody would be talking about vote fraud and voting rights. As it is I fear that it may all blow over in due time.

[Redleg]

10. Proof that John Kerry is a friggin' wimp.

Yeah, right. Kerry did his best and now you slobs thank him by trashing him.