It had to be done. Another friendship completely over.

[Bouncy Ball]

I got an email just now from a woman I went to college with. I never knew her politics and we had gotten a bit out of touch in recent years. The email was addressed to a lot of people, not just me. Here it is:

"I am continually frustrated by the lack of progress in Iraq, as I'm sure many of you are, too. I have written to my senators and to President Bush, urging them in the use of nuclear weapons. I know it's a drastic step, but I think it's far past time to take it. We have the nukes, why are we not using them when they clearly need to be used?

I realize this will mean a lot of Iraqi deaths. But sometimes that is just the price you have to pay for democracy. I have been wishing they would all stop fighting so that it wouldn't come to this but I guess it probably has to eventually. Some of them just don't understand we are TRYING TO HELP.

So I feel bad for the ones who would be killed, but if it takes a large scale nuclear attack, then that's what it takes. America has never been afraid of doing what it takes to secure peace and freedom and I am sure President Bush will realize it is the only action to take, and soon. We cannot risk losing anymore US troops!

I hope you will join me in praying for our troops in Iraq."

Here is my reply to her:

"Jennifer:

I can't begin to tell you how heartsick your email made me. I also can't believe a thinking, rational person would ever urge the use of nuclear weapons on a group of people. I see from your email that you have bought all this hook, line, and sinker, but I can't help but remind you of a few things:

1. The primary justification for invading Iraq was WMDs. They aren't there.

2. The Iraqis did not ASK for us to come over and get rid of Saddam Hussein. It was a pre-emptive, even PREVENTIVE war. That's immoral.

3. To recommend the use of nuclear weapons on an innocent people is immoral, as well. To say the least.

I have to say, I had no idea you had taken such views. I find this so indescribably tasteless and disgusting that I don't think we can continue with even a casual email friendship. I don't see how I can possibly remain friends with someone who would urge the wholesale deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Please don't try to justify what you said, you made it very clear that you don't value the lives of Iraqis. And to me, life is life, no matter the nationality."

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. *hugs* I am sorry about the lost friendship, but she clearly is

a little wacky wanting to NUKE people in order to HELP them. *appalled*

Good for you for explaining why you ended the friendship.

*'nother hug*

[Bouncy Ball]

3. Thanks.

I honestly wanted to totally go off on her and I had to walk away from the computer for a bit. I wanted to rip her head off. (Figuratively speaking.)

[Warpy]

21. I thought your restraint was admirable.

Don't these bloodthirsty clowns realize what would happen should the US use nuclear weapons against a nonthreatening country just because the citizens were fighting to get their own country back?

WWIII comes to mind.

[Julius Civitatus]

100. I feel you pain

I have lost a lot of friends in the last few years due to their sudden conversion to wingnuttery.

Your "friend" (or rather "former friend") is, sorry to say, completely nuts. Her perversion of the word "Democracy" is absolutely disgusting. So in the name of installeing "Democracy" in Iraq (which in reality has become the installation of a puppet regime while ordinary Iraqis suffer) we should "nuke" their country all the way to hell. Sorry for my language, but her words disturbed me: she's f*cking crazy!!!

When that woman says "Democracy," she makes it sound like you could easily replace it with the words "Aryan race," or "Empire" or any other reason totalitarians have use in the past to justify genocide. Her words are truly inhumane.

You are BETTER OFF without someone like that.

[Strelnikov_]

A Little Wacky?

That's an understatement.

What's next? 'Detention' camps, with ovens to dispose of those who die of 'heart attacks' during 'protective' detention.

[shadowknows69]

173. this is the mindset we're dealing with people

one more email to your "friend" ask her if she would advocate nuclear weapons on our own people if they took to the streets and demanded the war criminal be brought to trial.

[tsuki]

2. She cannot be serious. She must be putting you on.

[Bouncy Ball]

7. Heh.

Yeah, sadly, she is pretty serious. It's not the first time I've heard something like this. My mother in law has been making jokes about "nuking Iraq into glass" for about a year now.

:-(

[dmkinsey]

22. Is the nuke talk

something they're getting from rightwing radio?

[Bouncy Ball]

28. Oh assuredly.

My husband, despite my pleas for him not to, listens to that hatio on his way to and from work, because it doesn't really bother him and he wants to hear "what the idiots are saying."

He told me about three months ago he hears occasional mention of it, in the form of jokes, mostly.

On one radio show (Mark Davis) the guy played explosion sound effects while he made "nuke Iraq" jokes.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

35. They would just claim it was all a joke

and say that old "hey what's wrong with you liberals, don't you have a sense of humor? We were just JOKING!"

It's not funny, though, and honestly, I don't think they are joking.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CTLawGuy]

163. "hatio"

I like that word :) very cute!

[niceypoo]

172. I work with a 20 something wingnut

And he has been saying it for months. He keeps saying we need to "Nuke Baghdad". "Thats what my Dad says we should do", he says. When I asked him what the residents of Baghdad did to deserve it he goes mute (As they always do when you dig for details).

[gardenista]

67. That is a very frightening thought. The BFEE telegraphs it's actions

through right-wing radio, floats its trial balloons there.

This one is a very scary one if that is true.

:scared:

[Clark2008]

136. I was getting ready to point out this very thing

They are probably sending the balloon out right now to see how people would react - mining the crevices of the minds of their unthinking faithful to see if they can make an excuse for the use of nukes sick and easy to parrot.

I'm guessing this e-mail originated straight from Rove's computer and has gotten passed around like an Internet plague.

[gardenista]

141. This might be about playing around with expectations.

"Yeah, Iraq is a mess, so what do you want us to do? Go nuke-u-lur on it?"

Setting the extreme so that the deaths of a thousand more soldiers and ten thousand more civilians looks like a cakewalk.

[Bouncy Ball]

146. Now that's an interesting point

and something they would do....hmmm....

[gardenista]

155. They're tricky that way. Look at the numbers game with the budget

deficit. They made a huge projection for the deficit, setting expectations. Then, they miraculously figured out how they were going to cut the deficit in HALF!WOWIE-ZOWIE!

It's all a shell game, the whole thing.

[shadowknows69]

174. I can hear the speech now

"in order to insure free Iraqi election it has been decided that the four "problem areas" that security is at risk and elections too dangerous to take place will be tactically nuked to insure no interference by the terrorists who are hold up there. These are precision nukes and we don't expect many civilian casualties. Besides, if the people of these cities haven't removed the insurgents themselves by now then they must be in league with them.

[Downtown Hound]

4. We're trying to help, so let's nuke 'em!

These people just don't have any logic to them. Sorry about your friendship, but I know that it has to be done sometimes. I myself have cut out everyone who supports Bush from my life with the exception of my aunt.

[Bouncy Ball]

19. She was one of the last ones to go

and only because she never flat-out said anything like this before now. She'd say things here and there that made me think she was a bushbot but never like this.

Slowly but surely all my friendships change.

[Ladyhawk]

42. I feel your pain. My friendships and familial relationships have...

...all changed due to all things Bu$hCo. It's very painful. When I learn off the bat someone is a ** supporter, I keep things at the acquaintance level at best. I've had to drop a close friend to acquaintance level...and I don't think he even cares.

[Maat]

164. That's exactly what is happening in my life, Ladyhawk.

I'm dropping 'friends' to 'acquaintance' level (or for a variation, 'neighbor' level - which is the same thing as 'acquaintance' level, really).

[shadowknows69]

176. I'm dealing with the same thing

a friend of mine for literally 30 years (and I'm only 35) closest thing to a brother I have in this world has taken an extreme right turn in his thinking. This is the same guy I used to follow the Grateful Dead around with as we reveled in being peaceful neo-hippies. I'm even more conservative than I was then but he's swallowed the kool aid by the gallon. Says 9/11 changed his mind. Of course brushes off the facts like so much dust. Told me recently I should watch fox news for the best coverage. I don't allow him to talk politics with me anymore cause I still want to love my brother. Getting pretty hard though.

[Maat]

186. All I can say is, 'Hang in there!'

I'm trying to, with my in-laws. And I can say that once thing I noticed during my social work years, relatives'/friends' lives take strange turns. My formerly well-grounded in-laws moved back to the Midwest and became fundies.

[Divine Discontent]

195. Same here, also.

A super close brother in Christ, that I would have followed in whatever endeavour he thought was best for us, took a hard right turn almost 2 years ago, and despite my attempts to keep us close, he kept drifting to the right wing fundamentalist mentality, to the point where he stopped talking to me one day. It had hurt my faith dearly for quite a while. But I know Christ is the eternal healer, and nothing the mind warping that Bushco does on America's people will be permanent. I have hope, always.

If someone with a concisely great mind were to put a 5 minute video together of all the horrible things this group of neo cons has done, it would truly change lives. They are under the influence, and it's not God I'm talking about.

blessings..
the martyred

[shadowknows69]

205. I would almost understand

If he was religious but he's pretty much an athiest. No, he bought the whole fear of 9-11, Bush will protect us garbage.

[CrispyQ]

221. Same with my mother -- not religious, but bought into the fear.

And she is PO'd that anyone would dare bomb the US on our own soil. Who cares the atrocities we've committed on other countries over the years. And she has become incredibly racist. I've actually heard her refer to some as 'brown people.' She started listening to Rush back in the 90's & is now an official Fauxbot.

On Christmas Eve she said that it was time to bring the troops home & "bomb the hell out of that entire country until there isn't a person or thing left standing."

There was an editorial in "The Progressive" recently & the guy summed up my mother perfectly:

"...And for those that supported Bush, I would point out that many were driven by hubris, rage, and lust for revenge at any cost. Their concept of conflict resolution is to start a fight."

She is not the woman who raised me. I vascillate between being heart broken at this change & being so damned angry at her. I no longer call her. When she calls me, I try to cut it as short as I can or I will lash out.

Bush -- a uniter, not a divider. Yeah right.

[Ladyhawk]

254. At some point you just have to.

I just can't let this fundy guy know anything about me personally. I guess he wants me to go back to being a depressed fundy instead of a depressed atheist. And I found he voted for the weed...eeeeewwwwwww!!!

To the fundies, Jesus is the answer to everything...and if you don't believe it, they'll MAKE you. :)

No thanks. I'm full.

[Green Thumb]

250. It is nice to know

that I am not alone. This election could be then end of a lot of relationships for me. I just can't get along with a spouse that supports **. It is just to much work. :(

[mzmolly]

5. She's sick!

Good for you! I am sorry you lost a friend. These so called "Christians" show they're true light when given a chance don't they? Disgusting.

Again, I'm sorry.

[ck4829]

6. What would the point of democracy be in Iraq...

if there were no people in Iraq?

[Bouncy Ball]

10. I was wondering that.

And in a real effort to try to understand this way of thinking, I tried to get into that viewpoint and the only thing I could think was, if tons of Iraqis were killed, it'd be easier to set up a government there?

:shrug:

Five votes would be easy to count?

No idea.

[dmkinsey]

30. Geez, think how much easier voter

suppression would be!

[Strelnikov_]

133. The EMP Will Play Hell With The Diebold Machines, Though

[SharonAnn]

113. And the radiation would kill many outside of Iraq, for many years.

[GCP]

8. Excellent reply

To an unbelievable message. What in God's name are these people thinking?

[katinmn]

9. another one of those "bombs for peace" people

I respect your response, and the diplomatic way you delivered it!

[Bouncy Ball]

13. You wouldn't believe the number of times I edited it

before I hit send.

The original reply started with "WHAT THE FUCK?????"

[katinmn]

109. Well, maybe woke her up.

But she might be a lost cause.
:-(

[Divine Discontent]

196. now that's funny...

I would have thought the same, and then said, "well gosh, I can't type that to her"

maybe you'll wake her up, you never know.

[eleonora]

11. some people just disgust me

She's one of those. Good riddance. You don't need wackos like that in your life!

[gardenista]

12. She's a lunatic, you are well rid of her.

I hope she got a few responses like yours.

[Bouncy Ball]

18. Judging from her TO list

she probably got a lot of high fives and I'm the one loony one who didn't go along with it. :eyes:

Although there is one guy on the TO list who might be just as appalled. If he's anything like he was in college.

[gardenista]

48. Hmm... maybe you should forward her this thread.

Naw, you are not an unkind person, but I bet it's tempting!

[amazona]

14. wtf? don't you think maybe the email was satire?

How do you bring democracy to a people by glassing them?

I have made the mistake of thinking a friend meant something literally when he was being satiric. Maybe before you give up all hope, find out for sure if she is clinically insane. I'm thinking this a modern A Modest Proposal.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bouncy Ball]

16. See my post above to someone else

who thought it might be satire. She moved to the burbs north of Dallas and seems to be eating the kool-aid straight out of the packet. I do hear people urging nuclear attacks on Iraq every now and then around here.

[amazona]

27. yeah saw it after I already shot off my mouth

That is scary. Don't know what to say. I'd distance myself from this fool. Someone who is writing letters to her Senators asking them to nuke people has got to seriously be on some weirdo watch lists. I'd love to see how she is handled the next time she flies out of DFW. And I think *I* get patted down!

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bouncy Ball]

31. Well considering her senators

are Kay Bailey Hutchinson and John Cornyn, the letters might have been well-received. :-(

[mhr]

96. Sorry To Hear It - North Dallas 'Burbs Are The Worst

I live not far and must wash upon each return to the house just to liberate myself from the odor of Fascism that permeates the place.

It's best you let her go; she has joined "the collective" and there is no removing the viral thought memes.

[mcscajun]

147. "...seems to be eating the kool-aid straight out of the packet."

Hadn't heard this one yet. Good one...filing for future use. :)

[goddess40]

29. I would hope you are right

but it isn't funny in the least.

Great response by the way. Class is better than crass, glad you didn't send the WTF e-mail. When we're crude it just gives them a reason to write us off. All though sometimes I can't help it.

[fudge stripe cookays]

34. You obviously haven't been to Texas recently.

Seriously....I'm really beginning to be frightened of the people here, and I've lived here for 35 years (most of my life).

BB-- Sorry about the friendship. Another one bites the dust, eh?

FSC

[Bouncy Ball]

36. Yeah fudge stripe

we're surrounded by people who would have cheered her email.

:scared:

I want out of here fudge. Let's you, me, Reprehensor, my husband hightail it outta here.

[lavenderdiva]

62. Excellent and well-crafted response, Bouncy Ball

but would you please take me with you when you 'get out'? I live in Houston, its not that far...:bounce:

[Bouncy Ball]

87. I'd love to!

[mhr]

98. I Wanna Go To - Don't Forget Me!

eom

[hyphenate]

208. Come to Massachusetts

We're blue, we're friendly and we have lots of perks. :) (Don't know what the perks are, but it sounded good.)

[fudge stripe cookays]

226. Deal!

I'm working on it. We can tie you guys to our roof when we leave. Fargo takes up the entire backseat. :-)

Too many freakin bills!
FSC

[muse]

169. That's what I was thinking.

I didn't for a minute think that her friend was joking. That type of sentiment - nuke the Iraqis - would pass for everyday conversation here in Texas. I'm talking about everyday conversation from the mouths of college educated people with regular, mainstream jobs.

[Slickriddles]

150. Always glad to see a quote from that asshole John Mitchell

Yours is a particularly wacky one and takes me back to the good old days.

[BrainRants]

15. Good for you, you have the moral high ground.

It amazes me how crazy some of the people we call "fellow Americans" can be, isn't it?

Your reply was measured and appropriate.

[Prodemsouth]

17. You should be proud of yourself, a rational yet passionate response to

a irrational and irresponsible letter. Excellent reply

[Old and In the Way]

20. Gotta love the irony in this....

We invaded because they had WMD (but didn't) and would use them (but didn't). So now we should use WMD against a country who didn't have or use them? Too bizarre.

[Bouncy Ball]

23. DAMN

I wish I had thought to point that out. Damn, damn, damn. That would have been perfect.

If she sends me a reply, I'll post it here and I've filed your good response for if I can use it.

[Canadianchick]

53. Also very ironic

to bomb the hell out of any country who even thinks about trying to create a nuclear program. I think that it was God who said it was only the U.S. that was allowed to have them and use them too.

[oblivious]

24. I wrote a similar letter to a childhood friend who became a warmonger.

He was the kind of person who never would have supported war in his youth.

He replied that I was a crackpot, I needed therapy, and I should stick just to the mainstream news as we know at least there we're getting the truth.

It was then I truly felt the power of the massive propaganda system that we call MSN.

[kikiek]

25. In addition to all that is wrong with that....is she under the belief that

the mushroom cloud just hangs over when the bomb dropped? Ask the Swedes about their cancer rates since Chernobyl. Not to mention what that would do to the oil in the country. Blow up the real reason we went to war. Secure peace and freedom and really liberate them by destroying them. Probably against abortion too. Not to mention the historical value of Iraq. Any Christian, Jew or Muslim would know that.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

33. Sadly

I know a LOT of people who feel the same way she does. Too many.

I was disgusted by her email, but not particularly shocked, sad to say.

[1monster]

37. The more things change, the more they seem to stay the same...

Her suggestion that we nuke the Iraqis to "help" them or to bring them "democracy" reminds me of the Peter, Paul, and Mary song, EL SALVADOR...

And kill the people to set them free
Who put this price on their liberty?
Don't you think it's time to leave
El Salvador?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

43. I sent an attachment of some pictures

of this war I am sure she hasn't seen of the death and destruction we have caused. I don't know if she looked at them or not, but I hope she did.

[Canadianchick]

39. That was absolutely frightening

and this woman went to college? What an idiotic thing to say or even think. Good riddance to that relationship. How shortsighted, ignorant and completely stupid. And people like this wonder "why do they hate us"?

[Bouncy Ball]

41. I got a reply

That was fast. I sent my email about an hour ago.

Here it is:

"Sorry to hear you feel that way, but sometimes reality has to be FACED. And the reality, my dear, is that Iraq is a mess and someone has to clean it up. I said I knew it would cause deaths, but you know, in war, death happens. It's unavoidable.

Better to use nukes now, and END THIS THING and get our troops out of harm's way, than to let this carry on and have even more deaths, right?

If you find me so disgusing (sic) maybe it's best we end the friendship, I agree!

GOD BLESS PRESIDENT BUSH."

Ok should I even bother to respond to that piece of crap, or just block her email address? I am literally shaking with anger.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Used and Abused]

49. she is a very sick woman

Not to sound sexist but I know a lot of young men think like this, but it's hard to believe a woman thinks like that. She said deaths are unavoidable in war--but this was a war that BUSH chose to take on. Iraq did not choose this war, and the citizens of Iraq should not have to face the "unavoidable" consequences---we should.

In a way, I think you should respond. But the sad truth is that she won't get it. I would probably throw in one last snide remark that points out her religious hypcrisy, if she in fact describes herself as a Christian.

[Bouncy Ball]

51. She does describe herself as a Christian.

:cry:

I'm tired of being ashamed of my country and half the people in it, dammit.

What's happened to us? Where's any sense of fucking HUMANITY or DECENCY anymore?

[NC_Nurse]

69. Wow, that is SOOOO frightening!

You must have been shocked! I would be.

It amazes me that anyone can justify such things, but I have come to know that there are many people out there that are that fear-based and gullible.

Good for you for answering her in a rational, firm manner. I hope it makes a dent in her psyche.....hugs to you for trying. :hug:

[Orangepeel]

112. i'd just block her address, but if you do reply, mention Jesus

good message the first time. I'm sorry about the loss of your friendship.

[Maat]

166. Thanks for the post, Bouncy Ball, and your insight.

This retired social worker, for one, advises against a reply (I'm advising as your concerned friend) ... because I feel it better if your just move on (in my humble opinion)! Some just aren't going to listen, and the ensuing back-and-forth will only upset you more than you already are.

[Patiod]

256. My brother floated this one at a recent holiday meal

- suggested we should have "nuked" all the Arab capitals - Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran, and "solved everything once and for all, and protected Our Troops.

My father verbally smacked him down, and rightly so.

The problem is, my brother is a weak, wimpy loser, who my father has been smacking down all his life. Made him the perfect psychological dupe for idiots like Rush, the Patron Saint of Smacked-Down Loser White Guys ("it's not that I'm a loser, it's those Affirmative Action blacks/feminazis/liberals who are taking the big executive job that should have gone to me....")

This kind of rhetoric make sad little Loser White Guys get a hard-on. "We'll show those A-rabs!"

Sad, because he protested Vietnam - of course - it was his ass at stake, not someone else's (or "towel-head" civilians).

[Rose Siding]

50. Deep breath

Take your time, nail her ass with whatever she might actually hear, and then block her.

Her attitude is ugly and shocking. Don't forget to ask which branch of service she needs a recruiting call from!

[charlie]

54. Oof

And they say It Can't Happen Here. If Bush declared himself Emperor of North America, your bubblehead friend would turn your traitorous ass into the feds in a flash.

Hell, she's probably pecking out a feverish note to Ashcroft and Ridge right now.

[RadicalMom]

56. Ask her what would happen to our troops if we nuke THEM.

[gardenista]

57. It's becoming clearer to me. She has the WWII delusion. She believes

what they said about the use of nuclear weapons on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. She thinks this is WWII, just like Bush does.

I don't know if you should respond. If she doesn't understand that things have evolved since we first used nukes, she doesn't have the ability to reason this out.

The ONLY reason that they MIGHT have had that function in WWII is because nobody knew we were there yet. It was not the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that ended the war. It was the revelation that we had the power to do it again and again. Well, everybody already knows that now, and, unfortunately, many other players have the same capability, probably even some surprises that weren't invited to the WMD party.

If she thinks that our use of nukes on ANY enemy would not result in vast unforseen consequences, she has a screw loose, she won't listen, and she is a waste of your time.

[karlrschneider]

78. That is a tough nut (!) to crack...you might point out that

this is not a "war" by any sensible definition...it is an invasion and occupation of a formerly sovereign nation. Perhaps not a model of civlized society, but they were what they were and at least stable, and not incoincidentally no threat to the USA or even their neighbors because of the sanctions and no-fly zones. Perhaps a reminder that the attacks on 9/11/01 involved ZERO Iraqis, but 15 of the 19 were Saudis*
and the other 4 were from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon (I think that's correct, going on memory there)..

* Bandar Bush is something to keep in mind as well...

[buddysmellgood]

80. Tell her we can't use nukes on Iraq because it will contaminate the oil.

She'll understand that.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

89. you know

that might be the only thing that would get through!

[sharman]

168. Ah! You beat me to it.

I mean, dear God, losing our troops is bad enough, but our Oil? My god, our Oil!!

You know what might be cool about this whole thing?

When Bush does get the hell out of Dodge with his tail tucked between his legs--and he will--can you imagine the meltdown in that vicious red world?

[alphafemale]

84. Does she think U.S. soldiers are "Nuke-Proof?" wtf is with this Moran?

Or are their lives another sacrifice she's willing to make?

[seabeyond]

105. i am in texas, i know so many of these women

let it go. just let her go and it go. nothing will do reason with this woman as she proclaims her christianity and self righteousness. i am glad you supplied the reply. was hoping you would. in all my reading on conscious beyond, all the guides say, you can only give them the info, it is put out there. it is theirs to allow in their life or not, it cannot be force. you gave it to her, it is hers to do with as she likes. i am sorry for her. you on the other hand, you .....thank you for trying

[anarchy1999]

115. Block it for ever more! Do not respond except to say you have blocked

her/his e-mails for ever more. It will be the best thing you ever did and you will feel well for doing it. Some minds just can not be changed.

[Octafish]

145. Tell her about Chimpageddon.

Smirk, Sneer and the Bush Gang will be safe in undisclosed locations, Swiss caves and the Rev. Moon's Brazilian jungle redoubt.

After the nuclear exchanges unleashed by the Russians, Chinese and everybody else, like the Iranians, say, there probably will be an ecological catastrophy unlike anything imagined by Hollywood or the Carlyle Group.

She should realize that the little people, like her and me, will have to fight it out to survive. Who knows what can happen in a dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest world.

Doesn't really matter. Such a world wouldn't be worth living in, let alone fighting over.

We'd almost certainly be outlived by the Bush vermin and cockroaches. Having fought the bastards with all I got means that at least I could go out with a clear conscience.

[amazona]

214. block her and go on with your life

She's mentally ill. Don't let her illness become your illness.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[JHB]

215. Facing reality?

That act wouldn't "get us out of it", it would officially crown us as "The Evil Empire". We might (just might) get out of Iraq, only to face the entire world united against such indiscriminate use of such overwhelming power (and thus, against us).

The reality, my dear, is that PRESIDENT BUSH is a lousy "war leader". Let me count the ways:

1) He launched the war based on a pack of lies. In the process of doing so, he managed to insult most of our long-standing allies (for daring to question him), ensuring that we would bear nearly all of the costs of this war.

2) In doing so, he weakened the effort against the people who actually attacked us, allowing bin Laden and other top al Queda people to escape.

3) Having decided to go to war in Iraq, he botched it by trying to do it on the cheap. He sent in enough people to break what was left of Saddam's army, but not enough to control and stabilize the area.

4) He handed the rebuilding efforts over to political and business cronies, who had no experience in what they were supposed to do or didn't do the work they were paid for.

Yes, God bless Bush. Considering that the mess that our troops are in right now is due to ALL THE BAD DECISIONS HE HAS MADE, he certainly NEEDS IT.

[Plaid Adder]

220. I wouldn't waste any more time talking to her.

If she were capable of rationally examining her own rhetoric for 5 seconds she would see that a large-scale nuclear attack in this situation would be completely useless. Her own messages don't indicate that she has any clear idea of what such an attack would accomplish; she's just frothing about it because she's frustrated that the war she got isn't the war she thought she was paying for. She doesn't like being reminded that this war was a giant fucking mistake, so she would like it to be over as soon as possible so she can get back to watching *Friends* reruns and stop thinking about it.

She wants the Iraqis nuked because they're bothering her. That's what it boils down to.

It's not so much cruelty and racism and bigotry--though there is that--as that to her, they're not real. Iraq is an imaginary country lived in by imaginary people that somehow manages to kill real people (i.e., our soldiers). She doesn't know how or why and she doesn't want to know; she just wants them all to go away and stop lousing up her imaginary view of the world.

Unless you grew up with this woman from your infancy and cutting her off would be like severing your own right arm, I would cut the cord now. Life is too short to be trying to have an argument with someone who doesn't want to think.

The Plaid Adder

[Bouncy Ball]

231. You have a gift for hitting the nail right on the head.

That is exactly what I see around me--Iraq and Iraqis aren't REAL to these people, just bothersome little news stories.

Thanks. Oh and address blocked. I haven't seen her in years, and it's no big loss. In fact, I'm glad to know she feels this way.

[Pacifist Patriot]

252. I agree.

The woman is also clearly ignorant of the consequences of nuclear weapons. Wind knows no arbitrary political borders.

[roguevalley]

45. you're good people, bouncy ball

[Bouncy Ball]

52. Thank you roguevalley

I appreciate that. :hug:

[charlie]

46. Your alma mater owes her a refund

And while she's in a letter-writing mood, I hope she takes time to implore the heads of France, Britain, India, Pakistan, Israel, N Korea, China, and Russia not to do anything rash with their nuclear arsenals while we're raining plutonium into their half of the world. Wouldn't want any misunderstandings over such a trifle.

[Bouncy Ball]

55. Ahem.

She went to Texas A&M University. Ever heard of it? Rated the #1 most politically conservative university in the country. Even more than the SERVICE ACADEMIES OR BOB JONES OR ORAL ROBERTS!!!

I went there, too, but it just showed me up close and personal how ugly a non-thinking, non-compassionate mindset is.

But for graduating from A&M, she's about par for the course.

[Name removed]

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[charlie]

68. I know Aggies

I'm a Texan. EX-Texan in Asia.

BTW, if you write her again, call her UN-AMERICAN. It's probably the only epithet that'll sting her. And it's true.

[Name removed]

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[charlie]

83. Or maybe she has draft-age children

I can see this sort of thing catching on with Bush worshippers who fear the draft. Can't blame Bush if he scoops up and kills their kids in the Iraq fiasco, but you can blame the weak-kneed who won't let him drop the big one and spare the kids.

[bloom]

223. One of the friends (ex, I guess) that I had

who supports the war - has a son who signed up. That is the level of delusion some of them have. That their children are to going to go over there and save our country. And woe to anyone to criticizes the war to such a person. You might as well just forget it. That's what I've figured.

[Bouncy Ball]

90. You mentioned "as a mother"

she has a two year old daughter and is due to deliver their son any day now.

[Name removed]

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[Bouncy Ball]

117. I wouldn't go that far

the State doing things that are horrible is a large part of the problem right now.

[Name removed]

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[lady lib]

194. This is the mentality that puts the likes of Ann Coulter

on the NYT bestseller list who, get this, said in an interview in The New York Observer that it would be "fun" to nuke the North Koreans. That's right, fun. There's obviously more than Kool Aid in the Kool Aid. Anyway, you write beautifully and I'm sure you'll come up with a thoughtful response to your indoctrinated and marinated friend. My heart goes out to you.

[fudge stripe cookays]

229. Good point, Albizu.

I would send her that famous portrait from "Life" with the baby in the ruins of Hiroshima or Nagasaki, and say "Let this be on your head."

THEN block her. Stupid bitch. I fucking hate this place.

FSC

[muse]

170. the Aggie thing explains a lot.

A whole lot. I graduated from another conservative TX university way back when, so I don't have anything to brag about.

[gardenista]

61. LOL. Maybe BouncyBall should forward this little gem to the alumni

newsletter, just to prove it.

[gardenista]

71. Nevermind. I didn't realize it was Texas A & M. They'd probably give her

a frigging service award for having the thought.

[alittlelark]

47. I dealt w/a similar world-view over the holidays

my answer was quite similar, and her sister has been conversing w/ me ever since (the answer was public, and somewhat heated).

These soulless beings MUST be called out... they whither and die under scrutiny.

[Bouncy Ball]

60. Yeah.

I think I will collect myself a bit and respond.

I don't want to drag this out because honestly, after reading her emails I feel slimed and slimey and disgusting, almost like I've been conversing with a criminal.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

66. Those are great, thank you!

I will use them. Going to write the reply now. Thanks again.....

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

91. IS it improper to post the email?

I thought if I kept everything anonymous (and she has a VERY common first name) that it was ok?

[Name removed]

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[charlie]

104. Not in this case

She wrote you expressing intent to murder. She just lacks the means. If she wrote me, I wouldn't feel obliged to keep her deranged musings secret.

[gardenista]

I think she'd get off on those photos. I really do.

She is all about having power over others.

[Taxloss]

59. This makes me so angry I can't even speak.

And you never suspected this woman was a nutjob?!

This is one of the best arguments I have ever heard for total and immediate nuclear disarmanent.

[Bouncy Ball]

63. Well

in college, she was fairly liberal to moderate! She was kind of a rebel and very open-minded.

I don't know what the hell has happened. I know her husband is pretty conservative and they moved to an UBER conservative part of Texas.

:shrug:

It's sad, I don't even recognize her anymore with this attitude.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[Taxloss]

77. Stepford conservatism?

The sad stamp of many once-clever women.

[abelenkpe]

65. wow

I am speechless.

What a truly twisted world we live in that people can honestly rationalize such thoughts.

[pinto]

72. Fortunately, her paranoia and drama have nothing to do with you. Good to

let it go, as they say.

[NC_Nurse]

75. That's some scary shit she's spewing!

She must have OD'd on the Kool-Aid.

I hope your words got through to her, even if only a little!

[deadparrot]

74. I love how the development and use of nuclear weapons by the US is

encouraged by Americans, but the moment our "feerless leedur" gets a little war-happy and says that any other country might possibly be thinking about developing a WMD program, we become self-righteous and claim that we have a right to invade said country.

Of course, I'm against all forms of nuclear development, so I'd rather see the United States deter further development of nukes.

But still...it's so hypocritical.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

82. It's no joke or satire. This is the next "logical" step to be advocated

by the wingnuts for their failed Iraq adventure.

Of course, they can't advocate withdrawal because that would prove that their emperor/tin god is a failure, and by extension, that they were wrong to choose and trust him.

So the only thing is to annihilate hundreds of thousands or millions of innocent people, so as not to admit the war is an immoral disaster. Compound the immorality.

RW talk radio may be even a little scared to do more than joke about it now, but trust me, any joking represents a "trial balloon" being floated.

What's happening in Iraq now clearly points up the failure, and the fallacy of this war and this administration. Even in ONE country, American colonial and imperial ambition cannot be accomplished. The manpower is simply not there. The wingnuts and the rich are unwilling to enlist themselves or their children in the war, and the policy of repeatedly extending those already in and "redrafting" former military cannot work indefinitely and has probably already reached/passed the limits of its "usefulness". It is too painfully obvious that to even contemplate the further ambitions of the neocons like Wolfowitz and Feith in other countries like Syria and Iran is a sick joke, unless you are willing to go the whole Nazi/Roman Empire mile and bust out the nukes.

Then you may still talk about "Democracy" but your rule is then purely one of blood, the dagger through the planet. And then your regime better hold on tight and ride that bronco as long as it can, whether it's 2 or 3 years or a thousand, coup attempts and the rest of the world uniting against America will eventually bring the thing to a bloody and shameful end.

What a country we are living in now.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

101. Good post Mayberry

and I posted her email here on DU partially because I want EVERYONE to see that this kind of attitude really exists. The posters on here from Texas didn't bat an eye at it, we are surrounded by this sick attitude.

But it does exist and it has to be exposed to the light of day.

[anarchy1999]

Hey Bouncy, just one more not to talk with.

What are you doing? I had someone from Georgia ask about you tonight. Good Job, I guess.

[anarchy1999]

85. Hey Bouncy, just one more not to talk with.

What are you doing? I had someone from Georgia ask about you tonight. Good Job, I guess.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

94. I have the feeling like other true bushbots, she is

emotionally invested in his presidency in an unhealthy way and withdrawal = failure.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

95. Is her pride in having "won" the war worth murdering millions? (you asked)

Yes, apparently, if you are a Bush supporter.

Better to have the shame of being empire crazed genocidal maniacs than the shame of "losing" a war of conquest we never should have embarked upon in the first place.

[Bouncy Ball]

92. someone from Georgia?

On DU?

[anarchy1999]

107. Oh come on, you know better, yes, from Georgia.

And you know me.

Get over it all, period. Quit fighting. Quit trying to change minds, it is not going to happen, dearest. Much as you would like. Your heart is pure, as is your soul.

[Bouncy Ball]

118. Yeah I know I know you.

I'm just trying to figure out who from Georgia.

I'm not corresponding with her any longer. This turns my stomach.

This is why, when I see well-meaning DUers asking how we can convince them, I just shake my head.

Oh and thank you for what you said, you know I feel the same about you. :hug: You're a good egg, anarchy.

[anarchy1999]

148. Do you need to know who from Georgia asked about you?

You are doing quite okay but I'll supply the name and number. It is another veteran's wife. okay? See C-Span. If you need more info contact me. Lots of love and lots of peace to all of us. Hope this helps.

Tell your "friend" to look up Robert Fisk on google. Also Baghdad Burning, Riverbend's blog, or www.empirenotes.org or else dahr jamail's blog. If she feels okay after reading what they all have to say, I'm sorry for her/him.

[Bouncy Ball]

149. I've read Riverbend's blog for so long.

She describes things so vividly. It's heartbreaking.

I'll PM you.

[anarchy1999]

153. Riverbend is good, but if you really want to break your heart read

Raed's mom's blog. It will burn your soul. Between the two of them we could change the world. It is so sad that so many do not get to hear their voices. When word gets out of what has really happened in Falluhjah, all hell is going to break loose in Iraq all over. I know how I would feel if I had lived there in that community and had been part of the first protest in April of 2003 to ask the US Army (the 85th whatever) to stop occupying the school.

Never forgive and never forget.

[yankeedem]

93. I really hope you hit "reply all"

Sometimes these types have to be held to public ridicule. This is 25 million HUMAN LIVES. These thoughts cannot be allowed to take hold in this country.

[Bouncy Ball]

99. I started to just hit reply

because the last time I did reply all with a right winger it started the Email War to End All Email Wars and it went on and on and on, but then I thought "she's advocating killing MILLIONS of people, hell yeah I'm gonna hit reply all" so I did.

She's hitting reply all on hers too, now.

[yankeedem]

108. I'm proud of you

especially for the other rational people that are on her list, so that they know that not EVERYONE is a friggin lunatic.

I hope you get the Nation, read this article

http://thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050124&s=pollitt

It is indeed like Americans have been sprinkled with "idiot dust", as it's so aptly put.

[gristy]

103. Maybe I'm naive, but my guess is either your friend's email is a joke,

or you are pulling our collective leg. If by chance neither is the case, then I guess my recommendation would have been that you ask her to consider what would be the possible consequences of such an action. Ask her to think it through and see what she can come up with. Having alreay displayed her lunacy though, maybe it's just better to drop the whole thing, delete all her emails, filter out future emails from her, ink out her phone number from your address book, and just move on.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

122. I wish her email were a joke.

I posted a couple of replies from her here, too and it's obvious it is not. Nor am I pulling any legs.

I have blocked her email address. Like I said, we had been losing touch over the years and this was the death knell.

[gristy]

110. Uh oh - the next article in the NY Times on DU is starting to dance

in my head: "Radical web site advocates nuking Iraq"

[Name removed]

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[Bouncy Ball]

124. Yeah right.

They'd be totally off the mark. It's obvious I am quoting emails from someone else and my responses which CONDEMN her attitude.

They want to find people advocating nuking Iraq, they probably need to go to freeperville, not here. Everyone here is sickened, including myself.

[Bouncy Ball]

114. Ok guys, I got a second reply before I could even send MY

second reply. Obviously I got to her:

"You know, I've been thinking about what you said and the more I think about it the more mad I get!!! I have EVERY RIGHT to believe what I want, this is America, remember? And I have a right to my point of view. And I disagree that what I said was immoral, how dare you say that? It's SAD that it probably has to come to that, it's not a fun thing to think about, but immoral? To try to save the lives of US troops? How can you say that? I am thinking about them and getting them home sooner!!! With (name of my husband} being a vet, I would THINK you would agree!!! As for our friendship, if this is how you support the troops, maybe your (sic) right, maybe I shouldn't be in touch with someone who wants to take away my freedom of speech!!!"



Dear. Lord. That nails it, she has totally gone over to the Dark Side where logic, compassion, decency and humanity does not exist. It is a vaccuum of nothingness where she is right now. It reads like a right wing "hatio" rant, does it not?

In my reply, I give her some links to Hiroshima and Nagasaki photos and some more photos of Iraqis who have been killed.

My reply:

"1. Using nukes would not just harm the Iraqis. The troops on the ground would NOT be safe from the fallout. The countries in that entire region (probably beyond that region, as well) would be affected. Now how is that helping the troops?

2. Do we really want to open the Pandora's Box of nukes when countries such as North Korea and Pakistan have them and aren't exactly our best pals to begin with? Do you REALLY want to go there?

3. Check it: you are, right now, the mother of one and pregnant with another. Your country has been invaded by foreign troops. Your entire family has been killed and your house destroyed. And now the foreign country is talking nukes. How do you feel about that freedom and democracy they are bringing you?

4. This has nothing to do with anyone taking anyone's freedom of speech away from you. How did I stop you from speaking your point of view? I'm not stopping you even now. But it seems whenever anyone who supports bush gets challenged, they immediately begin crying "VICTIM! HELP, I'M BEING OPPRESSED!" You DO have every right to your point of view, no matter how twisted. And I have every right to cut off our friendhip because I find that point of view to be appalling, to make an understatement.

5. I have a better idea to help the troops--withdraw them from Iraq. Set up a peacekeeping team. The Iraqis and others fighting us there would be more than happy to see us leave them alone again. We can still help them, just not at the end of a gun barrel. There ARE other ways besides bullets and bombs. In a civilized world, we seek out the peaceful means, we don't blithely advocate the destruction of millions of people.

I am, quite frankly, ashamed of what you said. To think that a fellow American would advocate something like that......it's unspeakable."

I don't care if she responds or not. I'm sick to my stomach.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

119. I've blocked her email address

I could not care less what she has to say if this is how she is.

I just hope my words gave her pause to consider what she is suggesting. To her senators, no less.

[Name removed]

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[seabeyond]

132. but i want to hear, lo lol ol

ok........breathe

[charlie]

134. Well, there's the rest of the people

on their CC list. It'll be interesting to hear what they have to say when they begin to chime in.

...or dismaying.

[anarchy1999]

120. Bouncy, go to bed. We love you and this person you are trading e-mails

with is an idiot, not a friend. Peace and love, S.

[Bouncy Ball]

123. Hey now!

It's not my bedtime yet! ;-)

Never fear, anarchy, I am done with her, permanently.

[GreenPoet64]

121. Saddened that any human being could even utter such

racist, hateful, and I rarely use this word "evil" thoughts.

I too have lost RW friends over my stance regarding this war.

I teared up when I realized this woman was not joking.

What type of insanity has overcome this nation? I really think we are sick in the head--a good number of us. Any idea how we came to this?

Am sorry you are on the receiving end of her nonsense, but you are handling yourself well. Your responses are concise and astute.

GP

[gristy]

125. Is this woman 12 years old?

That would seem about right for the level of intellect and moral maturity she is displaying.

[Bouncy Ball]

126. It is honestly not that unusual around here.

And she's 36.

[Name removed]

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[charlie]

131. Not just Texas A&M

Texas. It's a whole 'nother planet. There were spontaneous latenight marches of yokels chanting NUKE IRAN when I was at SWTSU in 1979.

[bunkerbuster1]

209. Eh. They were saying "Nuke Iran" in Northern New Jersey colleges as well.

There's always a segment of the population who speak before they think.

[Bouncy Ball]

138. ...

When she was AT A&M, she was fairly liberal and open-minded. In fact, I can remember her being perturbed when they renamed one road "George Bush" parkway (the father, not the son). I remember her making fun of Clayton Williams, a repuke running for governor back then (he had to withdraw from the race when he told reporters that "rape is like bad weather--if it's inevitable, you might as well lay back and enjoy it."). She HATED him.

Since then, she's married a guy who is VERY conservative, she has started going to some huge church in north Dallas and moved to an uber uber neocon area. (Is anyone familiar with McKinney?)

So I don't know, I guess that did it.... :shrug:

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

143. I've met him twice

and both times, he made my skin crawl.

[put out]

161. I respectfully disagree about the suggestions that she has

been brainwashed. She had a reasonable mind. She had some liberal ideals, or at least was open to them. She has a couple of brain cells to rub together. Those things do not disappear as if by magic in a decade, or two, or three.

If such a person is bullied or threatened or otherwise abused for long enough, I could understand parroting some crap out of fear. But her emails to you do not indicate that someone was standing over her with a gun, or poised to revoke her membership at "Pretty Hands Salon" or even to take away her credit card (gasp, the horror).

She's doing this stupid shit all on her own. You were very kind to her, but she is not...searching for the right word...a fool. She is deliberately mean and small. I would send her many copies of enlistment papers. And some pretty flag stickers. And ask her how her enlistment drive has been going. And to be certain to post all with her successes.

Good for you, I say.

[bloom]

230. I think she has been brainwashed with propaganda

as have many in our country.

Unfortunately - I'm afraid she is not that unusual. There is a lot of Kool-Aid out there. She is certainly not the first person to say this. People have been saying this more or less since the war started - or before.

[anarchy1999]

197. oh shit! Mckinney, North Dallas, husband, very conservative?

It is a recipe for disaster. McKinney? Has anyone heard of it? Yeah. Sorry, wish it was not so and everything BB has had to say is true for Texas, especially, North Dallas, especially for McKinney. I'm so sorry.

When did they all get so sick?

(We want to leave soon!, who else wants to?, PM's are ok)

[Skittles]

178. I AM BLONDE AND I WILL KICK YOUR ASS

:D

[Divine Discontent]

199. LOLOLOL too cute (well, she IS from texas) n/t

[Shakespeare]

244. Step away from the broad brush....

Geez....I'm blonde AND an aggie. Bouncy Ball, you have my total sympathy on this. If it helps, I'm an air force brat Aggie who's married to a vet who finds her suggestion completely appalling and immoral.

I went through something similar with a cousin of mine, and ended up just blocking her email. You can imagine the family gossip grapevine, but I was sick of the wingnut BS. Sometimes you just have to MAKE them go away.

[mcscajun]

130. She'll respond again...she has to....she's a Last Word Freak.

Block her now. Have a nice relaxing cup of tea. You did all you could...and did it with class.

Some people cannot be awakened.

"...these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." -- Morpheus

[Bouncy Ball]

135. Oh I blocked right after I sent that last response.

Thanks!

[seabeyond]

137. let us know if anyone else sends on the list

all my repug friends and family know not to miss with me. none would dare, not dare send me an email, even one of those mass mails they always do

[Bouncy Ball]

140. I was surprised because I haven't gotten one in a long time

anyone who used to send them to me, stopped. (Reply all is fun!)

Then this one, out of the blue.

[seabeyond]

144. after election bush won they are getting cocky

thinking you will be humilated in loss and she would get away with you

no, you dont back down either, lo lol, i like

[Tinoire]

139. Appalled but not surprised. Kudos to you for your level-headed replies

I feel your pain from having cut off many people, to include relatives, also.

Thank you

I realize this will mean a lot of Iraqi deaths. But sometimes that is just the price you have to pay for democracy. :puke:

Democracy my ass. Your thread just made me extremely sad. The realization that there are such people around us is depressing.

[goforit]

151. All I can say is ....WOW!!!!.....How bizzare.

I can not believe that one human soul could be so heartless and vicious.

She needs psych help fast.

[Sparkly]

152. It seems pretty clear you're a few points above her

How shall we say -- a few more crayons in the pack, a few more sandwiches at the picnic, a few more hamsters turning the wheel... She doesn't seem as bright as you are but even more, she doesn't seem as THOUGHT-OUT as you are on any of the issues and implications of the topic.

Where did she even come up with this idea?!? (I, too, would have thought it was satire if I hadn't read your post.)

It's absolutely mind-boggling.

Anyway, you might take pity on her and unblock her; try to educate her. But who could blame you if you kept the block and gave up on her. If she seemed thoughtful enough to be persuaded, that'd be different. I tend to think most people are reasonable. But, not knowing her, these emails look to me like she may just be not quite bright enough to think it through (and I suspect, without reading the whole thread, that she's got people around her who are propping up these crazy "nuke 'em" notions).

[Emillereid]

154. Could she simply be attempting satirical black humor?

Otherwise I think she should be locked us in an asylum before she harms someone!

[Bouncy Ball]

158. Read the whole thread

especially her replies to my reply. She's not kidding, unfortunately. Would that she were.

[Emillereid]

181. Sorry about your friend -- as a psychologist I am serious about your

friend's need for serious help. To consciously wish for nuclear devastation in an effort to bring people 'democracy' reveals unbelievably disturbed thinking.

[Bouncy Ball]

188. What state do you live in?

A whole hell of a lot of people here in Texas must be in need of psychological help, then. It's not an unusual attitude here, sadly.

:scared:


Oh and I agree, there is something VERY wrong with this.

[Emillereid]

192. California -- we're not free of loonies here either -- I mean

we did elect the gropenfuhrer.

How bad is Texas?

I visited North Carolina last year and was shocked how many religious wackos there were -- everyone I met just assumed one was an evangelical waiting for the rapture. It was like visiting another planet.

[anarchy1999]

202. Welcome to North Dallas, come and visit us soon. "Um, kay"? (SouthPark)

n/t

A whole lot of whacko's needing serious help, but not, because they are all believing they are about to be "raptured", you know, as in the "Left Behind" series of books and so on and so forth.

We are all just waiting and we don't have to care,

Words from my brother the pastor,

"I'm not of this planet"

Holy shit, help me get off this one you and all the rest of you are on.

on edit:

It may seem like my brother, the pastor, is not mainstream, he is mainstream and I will not name the church he belonged to or the school he went to, because they are both so well known. Just believe me when I tell you, Dallas is frightening when it comes down to God.

[musette_sf]

212. I take comfort in the belief that we did NOT elect Ahhnuld

it was the paperless electronic voting that did it.

Bustamante was in the lead until the election.

And now they want to harass Shelley. What a crock.

Texas BTW is pretty bad. I lived there for 13 years. People you would meet, would ask "What church do you go to?" as one of their first getting-to-know-you questions. I would never, ever, ever go back there to live. Many, many small minded, hateful people, who can't see beyond their own back yard in their own gated community.

[EstimatedProphet]

156. That was truly sick

Good for you for having the courage to put an end to a "friendship" like that.
Sometimes I am just floored by how much this country has changed in the last 4 years. How can what she said be construed as anything other than the most evil of things that could be thought? How can sonmeone claim to be Christian, then support invading a country for no reason and indiscriminate killing of everyone there when they resist?
HOW CAN THIS KIND OF THING NOT BE CALLED NAZISM?

[Bouncy Ball]

159. I know. I said above to someone

what the hell happened to humanity and decency???? Ten, twenty years ago if anyone had suggested such a thing people would have gasped in shock. Even my grandfather, who was originally a supporter of the Vietnam war, came to greatly oppose it and he detested the US use of napalm. He was in WWII and he told me if he had to be the guy who dropped those bombs, he would have lost his mind.

[CO Liberal]

157. As a Professional Writer, I Commend You For Your Response

Forget Jennifer - you've got lots of friends here at DU.

[Bouncy Ball]

160. Aw, thanks CO

:hug:

[cry baby]

162. You've had a hard night. Think about writing to your representatives

and take the opposing viewpoint. I hate to think that they will get her email and not yours as a balance. This is so dangerous!

[Bouncy Ball]

180. You know what?

Assuming she really did write our senators, that is a good point. I will do that, thank you.

[cry baby]

245. You mentioned them earler in the thread - I'll write them, too. n/t

[sundog]

165. you should email her a link to this thread

sounds like a sick woman

[Bouncy Ball]

182. Don't think it didn't cross my mind

but you know, I don't even want to mess with her at all.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

203. Good

Don't mess with her. Because the next response you'd get would be forwards of all those copied who agree with her stance. Like getting FR sent straight to your inbox.

Cutting her off is the healthy thing to do. Sorry you had such a revolting experience, but you handled it very well.

[Mend]

167. Tell her there is a lottery

she could be the lucky winner to "push the drop-the-bomb button" and kill millions of women and children. Or really burn them up and give them leukemia. Wow.

[Bouncy Ball]

184. Why don't I think of these responses?

Normally I can be quite the smart ass, but her email just made me feel disgusted and sad instead of provoking the smart ass me.

[sharman]

171. As always, the best response to a "Support the Troops" type

Why isn't she and her hubby enlisting? If she were really so gosh-darned concerned about the troops going home alive, she should get her ass over there, so some poor shmuck on his third tour of duty could go home.

Oh I see. It's ok to murder millions of Iraqis to save the troops. Just not her own tender flesh

[Bouncy Ball]

187. They always blow that off.

I love to use it on them, but I can just imagine her saying "get real." She's in her mid 30s, pregnant and has a two year old. Her husband is even older than her.

I think there's a certain cut off age for voluntary enlistment, maybe 35? Anyone know?

[Skittles]

175. good job, BB

I cannot remain friends with people who think this way either.

[Bouncy Ball]

185. It was my new rule starting November 3.

Damn straight.

[arwalden]

177. I Hope You Did A "REPLY TO ALL" ...

... to give everyone on her mailing list something to think about in addition to her venom.

[Bouncy Ball]

183. Oh, I did.

[neebob]

179. Wow, I didn't know they could have democracy in a nuclear wasteland.

That's just stunning. And psycho, too, accusing you of trying to take away her freedom of speech. I hope there aren't many like her, but something tells me there are. Note to self: Don't ask Mom what she thinks.

[NNguyenMD]

189. you may have lost yourself a friend, but you've made at least one new one

=) bravo!

[Bouncy Ball]

232. Aw, thanks!

:toast:

[leftofthedial]

190. are you shitting me?!?!?!

nukes?!?!?!!?

which RW loony-bin group is advocating this?

Utterly absurd. Nukes would solve none of the problems we have on the ground over there. Not tactically and certainly not strategically.

What stupidity.

[anarchy1999]

200. Welcome home to North Dallas and the home of the "mega Churches".

Prestonwood Baptist first comes to mind, hell, one of their "members" bought out an entire mega theater for "the Passion" with Mel.

All of us "libs/Dems/peaceniks" we need to flee North Dallas, it is not healthy to remain here much longer. We were encouraged to do so a couple of years ago (you know the drill, fight the good fight), but as BB has shown the people in this part of the country are dangerously insane.

I don't know how or why it happened. Serious drugs used at A&M, maybe, however that was the school of my choice and two of my best friends went there along with my little brother. My little brother is lost forever. Corp Chaplain, pastor, not a pastor, lost soul. I hate Dallas and the right wing fundamentalist assholes that live in this town and support this f'ing war for God and "God Bless America" while they drive their SUV's with 4X4's down the street, including my other brother.

I'm so sorry and I apologize to all.

[Bouncy Ball]

234. I want out so bad I can taste it.

Part of me feels we should stay, fight, keep organizing, voting, but part of me just LONGS to move somewhere bluer than blue. Somewhere so freaking liberal *I* would look moderate.

But alas, jobs and finances keep us here.

:-(

One thing my husband and I have vowed, as soon as our daughter is out of college, and/or we are retired, we are NOT STAYING HERE.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

233. I guess you don't grow 'em as crazy in Colorado, eh?

FWIW, I've heard my mother in law suggest nukes, too and she lives in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

[UdoKier]

191. Your friend is insane.

Just as insane as a young Sen. Lloyd Bentsen was when he advocated dropping nukes on Korea. Such thinking is a disease.

[mockingbich]

193. You're friend isn't hopeless...NOW you can change her mind

She is worried about our troops, not the Iraqi's. President Bush is perfectly willing to put every draft age american male through the meatgrinder. Destroy your friend's faith in the President's motives...and then she'll come to see the light of the lies that led to this monstrous war

But if you continue to argue from an Iraqi perspective...she'll never listen

[bling bling]

198. I got an email last night that pissed me off.

It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Something about George Bush being re-elected because he's so nice to his secret service men. Whereas Hilary Clinton wouldn't even acknowledge them, and Chelsea would get in trouble if she was nice to them, so whenever her mom was around, Chelsea had to ignore them. It was absolute garbage.

It was from my husband's in-laws. They had forwarded it to a bunch of people and I can only think they put my name on there by mistake because they know how I feel. My husband and other liberals in the family were not on the list.

I e-mailed it to my husband and told him that it's because I care about *him* that I didn't hit the reply all button and go nuts at them for forwarding such outrageous drivel to my in-box. They would have become upset which would have upset him, so I didn't. Now it's just me that's upset.

Grrrrr.

[mogster]

201. It is mindboggling how unthinking some people are

Where's the logic in her thinking? *shaking head*

Always interesting to read your posts, Bouncy Ball :-)
You're very good at following them up, creating a good debate.
If she's the example of the unthinking idiot, you're the example of the exact opposite.

Sorry for your loss of friendship.

[Bouncy Ball]

236. Ah thanks mogster.

I do appreciate it. It's not much of a loss, really, I haven't seen her in years and our communication had become just a few emails each year. Not even anything regular. Maybe a Christmas card some years. No big loss. But thanks!

:toast:

[mogster]

243. Did I see a beer....? :-)

Yep. :D

:toast:

[KitchenWitch]

204. Wow

It saddens and shocks me to the core when I hear about people who hold this attitude about Iraq (and perhaps about any other subset of human civilization). I thought humans were supposed to be civilized and compassionate, not hostile and small-minded. I am so sorry to hear about your former friend's point of view, she must be very unhappy!

I don't know about anyone else, but I need a hug after reading that!

:scared: :scared:

:grouphug:

[sendero]

206. I wnet through..

... a similar thing with a neighbor who was a good friend.

She started talking about Limbaugh and OReally and I told her I disagreed and asked her not to bring ip up in the future.

The next time we visited she started in on OReally's book. We got into a 20 minute shout-fest, which more or less ended our friendship.

It is my deepest belief that what is mostly wrong with these people is fear. They are afraid and they are unable to accept that the actions that have been taken so far do not diminish the possibility of terrorism in the US, they enhance it.

But one thing I do believe - these sorts of fundamental understandings of what is going on is up to and completely the province of the individual. Like most other dysfunctional behaviors and beliefs, the person will have to hit some kind of "rock-bottom" before they will undertake the effort to examine their position.

As a country, it is all too possible that millions of us are going to find our rock-bottom in the coming years.

[Bouncy Ball]

237. You wrote a mouthful.

I DO see fear at the base of ALL of their views. Fear fear fear. I am almost beginning to believe some of them get off on it. Another former friend used to send me all these forwarded emails with those crazy stories about deoderant causing breast cancer and people in mall parking lots who have you smell their perfume and it knocks you out and you wake up in a bathtub with a kidney missing. She'd preface the emails with "READ THIS!!!! IT SCARED ME SO BAD!!!! PASS IT ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!!!" and I'd send her (I'd reply all) the snopes debunking of it and she'd GET PISSED OFF AT ME FOR DEBUNKING IT!

It's like they WANT to be scared. Sheesh.

[Guaranteed]

207. That sounds like extremely dry sarcasm.

She can't be that fucking stupid.

[fudge stripe cookays]

235. Come to Texas sometime.

She's REALLY not kidding. We live around assholes like this woman EVERY DAY.

That's why it's so difficult to hear other DUers insult those of us who live in Texas with blanket statements. It is not an easy place to live. Especially the suburbs of Dallas and Plano. The people are brainwashed.

FSC

[Deja Q]

210. Sweet Jesus. We illegally invade their country. They are defending it...

And now this?!

Tasteless is too right. And it would not look good to the other countries of the world either.

[durablend]

219. And lemme guess...

If somebody else invaded this country (or their house), they'd just sit there and do nothing. I think those turra-ists will be throwing bouquets at us once we nuke Iraq :puke:

Uh huh...the "no brains" party shows it's hypocracy yet again (what else is new) :eyes:

[ernstbass]

213. That gave me the chills!

It is really scary to think that people with that mindset live among us

[ArkDem]

216. You are so brave.

[Bouncy Ball]

238. Thanks. I don't think so, but thank you all the same!

:toast:

[bloom]

217. wow

Most of the people I know - know better than to send me stuff like that.

I think I've lost a college friend over this recently, also. (No Christmas card this year :) ). Another friend had sent us all something ridiculing Bush* and she made it clear that she was offended....

Bush is quite the divider. Without him - I think we would have gone on just fine. My old friends wouldn't be supporting this evil administration and I wouldn't have been ardently opposing what our country is doing.

Email has it's role as well. Without email - people wouldn't send each other stuff like this. We would never have known.....

[mattclearing]

218. Your eloquent rebuttal is brilliant. I'm sure you gave her pause.

eom

[prayin4rain]

222. Good for you. I know it wasn't easy.---- n/t

[CrispyQ]

224. I'm sorry about your friend.

Reading this thread is very sad when you read how many of us have lost family & friends over the insanity that is bush.

Your reply was perfect.

[gollygee]

225. Oh my god she's absolutely nuts

It scares me that people can think that way. We went in there because they supposedly had WMDs. They didn't, but we'll just go ahead and use WMDs on them anyway.

We're there to help the Iraquis become free. That isn't going well, so we'll just nuke them.

Wow. Even my freeper brother doesn't think like that.

It's amazing how people can rationalize war, killing, and even the use of nucular weapons. It is frightening and it shows that anything can happen when neo-cons are in control. Really, she's just one or two steps beyond W and Co.

[SammyWinstonJack]

227. I wonder, does she know the depth of destruction she is

advocating? Can she even begin to grasp the severity of a nuclear attack? It seems to me that some people just throw the "nuke 'em all solution" around without any clue as to the total devastation of such an attack. How would this "friend" react to another Country advocating the use of nuclear attacks on the U.S. for whatever reasons?

[Terran]

228. You might send her one more email

and recommend she seek professional help, because that woman is undoubtedly insane. You should be happy she's no longer in your life.

[Bouncy Ball]

239. Part of the reason I posted this is because

I wanted EVERYONE here and any lurkers to see what kind of mindset is really going on in this country. I was amazed anyone here even thought she was kidding--I have HEARD this position before. Even at the beginning of the war. I used to get emails from my mother in law (before I blocked her, too) with jokes about turning Iraq into glass. With cartoon maps that had all of the Middle East missing.

This is, sadly, not an unusual attitude here. It's not universal among bush supporters, but it's prevalent enough to give the rest of us serious pause. As in, "oh my God, these motherfuckers have gone right over into SCARY!!!"

I work with them. I live next door to them.

That's why when I hear I should try to "understand" their mindset, try to reach out, try to change the message, whatever, I just think "WHAT THE FUCK, HOW?????" No they aren't all a lost cause, but my GOD. Just ten or twenty years ago, most people would have sucked in air and gotten huge scary eyes at the suggestion we just nuke another country off the planet. Now it's dinner table talk and email fodder.

The more moderate ones, the fence sitters, yes. They can be helped.

But the others? I've put in a lot of time working with them, talking to them, giving them information, links, FACTS. To absolutely NO avail.

It wasn't like this before 9/11. I hate to say that, but when they say "it changed everything" they mean it turned republicans into a bunch of scared shitless incredibly mean and hateful creatures overnight. The ingredients were probably already there and that just put them over the top.

When I was younger, my beef with republicans was a matter of an honest difference of opinions as to how the country should be run, what role government has in people's lives.

Now the difference is as wide as the Grand Canyon. Now the difference involves basic MORALS. The most angry I have ever seen a rightwinger was right after the election, when I looked very coldly at her and explained I could no longer find any basis for friendship with someone who would cast her vote for such an immoral administration. Her jaw hit the ground, because remember, THEY think they have the moral high ground, but it is quite the opposite. They are in the sewer as far as morals go. And I just can't go down there with them. Some simply will NOT come up into the light of day.

[mattclearing]

240. Kick.

:kick:

[seabeyond]

242. that is the point, ten years ago we would have been appauled

pay off media,
lie about war
change documents,
reports,
studies
suppress votes and know
intimidate, court says ok
have a vote with no paper

so much just ten years ago we would have said no way

[LibertyLover]

241. We had . . .

to nuke the country in order to save it? I can't begin to comprehend how anyone could hold that opinion. I'm sorry that you had to terminate your friendship with this person, but there are times when there really is no other option.

[Oversea Visitor]

246. Its scary

reading all this. Its like America is going insane. Take you country back before the world get blown to pieces

[SarahB]

247. This is truly frightening.

When normal, otherwise rational people begin this line of thinking, well, it reminds me of how the German people cooperated with Hitler. One day, we will (hopefully, if the human race isn't destroyed that is) be able to back at this dark time in our country's history and know at least we weren't a part of the mass of fools.

God (or insert Deity of choice) help us.

[adigal]

248. My husband was NYC Fireman on 9/11

and he was working that day. I thought he was dead all day. He got disabled from the clean up and now has asthma. I used to support Bush, even voted for him in 2000 (God, I'm sorry) but then I looked at the world he has wrought...

Osama bin Laden is on television regularly, thumbing his nose at our president, leaders and every American citizen.

We are killing people who were powerless against us, and we are losing more Americans in the process.

Our president does not want his aides to give him any "bad news" about Iraq.

What has happened to us in 3 years? If anyone should be frightened, it should be me, my husband, my kids, those who live in NY, Calif and the other blue states. But no - we looked reality in the face and saw that we were not made safer by Bush's grand illusions. His thirst for power and killing actually made more people in the world hate us. If we had another 9/11 type attack, how many other countries would send their caring and support this time??? Three??? Compared to many, many, who bled with us on 9/11.

We have to keep fighting. We must take our country back. Don't ever give up. This is all just temporary insanity and the country will wake up - I think they are waking up from what some of my friends who voted for Bush have said recently.

One person at a time.

[Bouncy Ball]

249. I'm so sorry about your husband, but I am so happy

to hear he lived. What a horrible horrible, unspeakably awful day.

I developed a new admiration and respect for the people of NYC that day and it continues, even stronger, now. You are right: y'all looked the beast that is terrorism right in the eye and didn't flinch (that's why I have such amazing respect for that city now). And you didn't give into fearmongering. You didn't support warmongering.

And you voted in overwhelming numbers for the saner, smarter choice.

:-(

Your last paragraph is great. I hope more wake up. I despair at times, but I cant't completely lose all hope, I just can't.

[Pacifist Patriot]

251. Ew!

I shivered when I read that email. I don't know what I'd do if a friend or acquaintance sent something like that to me. Just sickening!

[molly]

253. Another sick fundie idiot - and she went to college?

[Comicstripper]

255. Wow...you're better off without her

She's what we call "insane in the membrane."

[bobbieinok]

257. does she want the 10 commandments posted everywhere??

if so,what about 'thou shalt not kill'

yeah, I know, RW/religious right say killing in war is not murder

inside brain of these people must be a total jumble with all the contradictory opinions they hold at once

[bobbieinok]

258. last spring and earlier, M Savage was vehemently advocating nuking

Fallujah

residents could have maybe 48 hours to leave and then......

according to him, it's all the fault of bleeding heart, red diaper doper baby liberals who hate America and love Islam; they make it politically difficult to do the right thing.....W should just ignore these enemies and do the right thing

[lady lib]

259. Here's a link that might help

I know you probably aren't going to email her anymore, but just in case...I came across an article that really puts you at ground level in Iraq and makes it real from the Iraqi's perspective. It's unbelievably sad.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7644.htm