Passion of the Christ wins Best Movie Drama

[Charlie Brown]

at People's Choice Awards. Gibson was uncharacteristically cordial, thanking "the Blue states, the Red states, the Catatonic states..."

Congratulations, Mel

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gatorboy]

2. Actually, they both won. eom

[Clark2008]

3. I think this was sarcasm

"canatonic states..,"

Or did Mel really say this?

[truebrit71]

4. Umm..Moore AND Gibson won...

In separate catgories...

Which channel, were you watching?

[Clark2008]

5. I didn't watch the whole thing

I just watched Michael. My bad.

Mel really said the Canatonic states?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Was that because there's no separate category for

"Best Religious Snuff Film"?

[merwin]

7. Freepers are already saying that Passion won 'Best Movie'. Lol... n/t

[soleft]

8. CBS continues to be a bunch of chicken shit assholes

Isn't best dramatic movie a sub category of best movie? Since when is "Best Movie" not the last award given on any award show. Obviously they added the best dramtatic movie category once they saw F911 was going to win to placate the religious right - and made the award the last award of the show to give it an air of greater importance.

Michael Moore beat you Mel Gibson. We know it, the American people know it.

See you at the Oscars

[Charlie Brown]

13. not to rain on anyone's parade

but does it really matter who "beat" who in this contest? The PCA has since its inception been one of the least noted and inconsequential awards ceremonies of all time. Up until this year, they were decided exclusively by Gallup polls. This year, to make the awards less a popularity contest a panel of 6,000 enthusiasts voted on the categories and nominees. The PCA are exclusively for fun, and everyone involved recognizes this. Why should it bother people at this site that more people voted for Passion than Ray or The Bourne Supremacy.

It's just for fun, everyone, and Mel was polite in his speech.

Why can't we tip our hats to him and celebrate that more Christians are interested in the movies thanks to his endeavor (a medium that many religious people are often antagonized by).

[jonnyblitz]

41. "..celebrate that more christians are interested in the movies"

LMFAO. don't you mean FUNDIES? most regular christians I knew thought the movie was SICK!

[AngryAmish]

45. Why should anyone care about any award show?

They are all advertisements occaisionally interrupted by commercials.

Do I care what people think is the "Best Picture" or "Song of the Year"? Hell no.

[soleft]

47. I would rather see Quentin Tarantino do a movie on Ghandi

Than to see Mel Gibson touch anything supposedly to be about a spiritual person.

I would think more Christians would be apalled by this movie than applauding it.

[InvisibleBallots]

9. It's so sad that Passion was attacked

by people claiming to represent Democrats. It wasn't really that good of a movie, but all the bullshit anti-Christian smears just gave it more publicity. Too bad everyone fell for Gibson's publicity stunt - I guess he is smarter that everyone gave him credit for? :shrug: Suckers.

[Bombtrack]

11. "anti-Christian smears" um sorry I don't think standing up against

something that's only going to cause more bullshit for jews is "anti-Christian". I also don't think being a proud secularist who's tired of being shit on by religious bigotry and the theocratic movement's growing success of tearing down church/state seperation is being an "anti-Christian".

[TrustingDog]

17. ? what Bullshit has The Passion caused for jews?

except Abe Foxman (sp?) making a fricking big deal out of it. thanks to him the movie was more popular than without him.

edited for spelling

[InvisibleBallots]

20. exactly

Abe Foxman is a man in need of publicity - and he wound up screwing his supporters with his bullshit. The guy needs to retire anyway.

Mel Gibson made a third rate Jesus movie, and thanks to the suckers that fell for his propaganda campaign, it's now some big cultural touchstone. Thanks a lot, suckers.

[Bombtrack]

23. Ah yes, Abe Foxman, the great Satan of the "anti-Zionists"

Sorry If I just cut and paste something that might enlighten you.

An Obscene Portrayal of Christ's Passion
by James Carroll

"THE PASSION of The Christ" by Mel Gibson is an obscene movie. It will incite contempt for Jews. It is a blasphemous insult to the memory of Jesus Christ. It is an icon of religious violence. Like many others, I anticipated the Gibson film warily, especially because an uncritical rendition of problematic Gospel texts which unfairly blame "the Jews" for the death of Jesus threatened to resuscitate the old "Christ-killer" myth.

But seeing Gibson's film convinces me that it does far worse than that. His highly literal representation of the Passion narratives, his visual presentation of material that, in the tradition, is meant to be read and heard, together with his prejudiced selection of details and his invention of dialogue and incidents, cause one serious problem, very much at the expense of Jews.

But the impact of his perverse imagination on a sacred story, coming at a time when the world is newly riven with primal violence in the name of God, threatens an even more grievous problem. The subject of this film, despite its title, is not the Passion of the Christ, but the sick love of physical abuse, engaged in for power.

Jews as presented in this movie are overwhelmingly negative. Roman soldiers brutally execute Jesus, but Pontius Pilate is a good man, who stands in dramatic contrast to Caiaphas, the Jewish High Priest. Going well beyond anything in the Gospels, Gibson's film emphasizes Roman virtue and Jewish venality by inventions like these:

Pilate's wife Claudia is an actual heroine, who aligns herself with Mary. Mary, terrified for her son, appeals to benign Romans against the hostile Jewish crowd.

Claudia is the woman behind the Romans. Her dramatic counterpart, the woman behind the Jews, is none other than a female Satan.

Pilate kindly offers Jesus a cup of water. Pilate orders Jesus flogged, but only to satisfy the Jewish bloodthirst.

The Jews are expressly indicted by the Good Thief, who, after the crucified Jesus says, "Father, forgive them . . . ," tells Caiaphas that "He prays for you." Jews are indicted by Jesus, who consoles Pilate by telling him, "It is he who has delivered me to you who has the greater sin."

The centerpiece of the film is a long sequence constructed around the flogging of Jesus. It is the most brutal film episode I have ever seen, approaching the pornographic. Just when the viewer thinks the flaying of the skin of Jesus can get no crueler, it does. Blood, flesh, bone, teeth, eyes, eye sockets, ribs, limbs -- the man is skinned alive, taken apart. In these endless moments, with the torturers escalating instruments and vehemence both, the film puts Gibson's decadent "Braveheart" imagination on full display.

On screen and in the theater, there is nothing to do but look away. Long after the filmgoer has had enough, even the Romans stop. And here is the anti-Semitic use to which this grotesque scene is put: Then Jesus is returned to the crowd of "the Jews," and then, as if they are indifferent to what the filmgoer has just been physically revolted by, "the Jews" demand the crucifixion of Jesus.

Not even the most savage carnage a filmgoer has ever seen is enough for these monsters. The scene, with the Jewish crowd overriding tender-hearted Pilate, is the most lethal in the Scriptures, but in Gibson's twist, "The Jews" are made to seem more evil than ever.

There is no resurrection in this film. A stone is rolled back, a zombie-Jesus is seen in profile for a second or two, and that's it. But there is a reason for this. In Gibson's theology, the resurrection has been rendered unnecessary by the infinite capacity of Jesus to withstand pain. Not the Risen Jesus, but the Survivor Jesus. Gibson's violence fantasies, as ingenious as perverse, are, at bottom, a fantasy of infinite male toughness.

The inflicting of suffering is the action of the film, and the dramatic question is: How much pain can Jesus take? The religious miracle of this Passion is that he can take it all. Jesus Christ Superstoic. His wondrous capacity to suffer is what converts bystander soldiers, and it is what saves the world.

In an act of perverse editing, Gibson has Jesus say, "I make all things new" as his torment approaches climax, as if cruel mayhem brings renewal. When Jesus cries out near the end, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" the film conveys not his despair, but his numb gratification. There's the film's inadvertent reversal, the crucifixion as a triumph of sadomasochistic exploitation. That triumph seems to be what Gibson's Jesus salutes when he says finally, "It is accomplished."

It is a lie. It is sick. Jews have every reason to be offended by "The Passion of The Christ." Even more so, if possible, do Christians.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/02/24/an_obscene_portrayal_of_christs_passion/

[InvisibleBallots]

24. Abe Foxman is full of shit

It's a pity they are still trotting out this tired old man. He does WAY more harm than good to whatever cause he is supposedly fighting for.

"There is no resurrection in this film. A stone is rolled back, a zombie-Jesus is seen in profile for a second or two, and that's it. But there is a reason for this. In Gibson's theology, the resurrection has been rendered unnecessary by the infinite capacity of Jesus to withstand pain. Not the Risen Jesus, but the Survivor Jesus. Gibson's violence fantasies, as ingenious as perverse, are, at bottom, a fantasy of infinite male toughness. "

These kinds of pathetic attacks on other people's religion puts Foxman firmly in the camp of the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons. We'll all be better off when he is retired.

[Bombtrack]

25. the article is written by James Carroll of the Boston Globe

maybe pro-Passion democrats need to stop trotting you out.

[InvisibleBallots]

35. they aren't - I'm all in it for myself!

I saw Passion - like I said, it's a third rate Jesus movie - I've seen much better - and if it wasn't for the Suckers who helped Mel Gibson with his PR campaign, it would have been treated as such.

On edit - I would like to say personally to Abe Foxman - a man who has personally ordered spying on me for daring to propose cutting the military budget and spending it on public schools and hospitals - FUCK YOU! :)

[tjdee]

30. That piece is so ridiculous, sorry.

When I see "The Pianist", or "Sophie's Choice", I don't want to run out and kill Germans or people with German heritage.

Am I equating the ancient Jews with Nazis? NO. What I am saying is that any thinking person should be able to understand the difference between the Jews in Jesus' town and every other Jewish person (if they're a moron, that is not Mel's fault). It wasn't so much that it was the Jews that called for his crucifixion, but that it was the people in his town that thought he was a psycho for claiming to be God's son--who happened to be Jews.

They could have been Muslims, or Buddhists, or whatever. But historically/religiously, they were Jews. There is no way to tell that story without that.

The writer of that piece has less of a problem with Mel than with the New Testament. Mel didn't say, "you know what, just for kicks, I think Jesus should be returned to people who want to kill him--and hey, they should be Jews!"

[TrustingDog]

37. bravo, tjdee. xactly my sentiments.

[Bombtrack]

42. Mel Gibson and his nutball father care about THEIR OWN VISION of the

so-called history or the New Testemant, which wasn't just based on by the way, it drew heavily from

The Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda (a 17th century nun), and the writings of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich (a 19th century stigmatic). The latter is a controversial work, as it contains material that is considered by some to be violent and anti-Semitic. Some scenes are purely Gibson's poetic license.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_the_Christ#Motivation

furthermore

Many Jews, such as the High Priest, are portrayed as physically ugly, perhaps drawing on stock anti-Semitic stereotypes of Jews.

The High Priest is shown as if he a were a member in good-standing of the Jewish community; historians note that the Jews were not allowed to appoint their own High Priest according to Biblical law, and that the High Priest at the time was in the service of the Roman government.

Pontius Pilate is portrayed as a thoughtful, temperate man who ultimately agrees to crucify Jesus because he does not want to risk a Jewish rebellion on the one hand, and a Christian rebellion on the other. However, historians hold that Pilate was known by his rough treatment of Jews in general, and was responsible for crucifying many Jews during his reign.

I see no reason why I should atleast not defend crticism of something
which I see as serving no purpouse other than setting this country back. I see no evidence that it has not done that for what I seek in America.

[tjdee]

48. So I'll see you criticizing Gone With the Wind, too?

I mean, all the black people in that movie were stupid, and slaves. Hattie McDaniel was fat, Butterfly McQueen was stupid, the others loved being slaves...they didn't explain that some blacks were smart and wanted to be free...

The High Priest, etc. is shown as being ugly because MOST movie villains are ugly. Actually, they were just regular looking people. Mary was Jewish, as was Mary Magdalene, etc. That's reaching, to say it was because they were Jewish.

It doesn't say in the film either that the High Priest was not elected by the Jewish people--but then again, it isn't explained that not all sharks are going to kill you in JAWS. When I watch a film/read a book I am willing to be in the world defined by the filmmakers/writer. If other people are stupid enough to get a worldview on the basis of one work, that's not the fault of the work.

Pontius Pilate was seen as a bit more merciful than he was, and obviously some license was taken with that. EVERY movie is done according to the director's vision. Every single one. If someone wants to make a movie about kind Jews who didn't wish to crucify Jesus, then they should. But obviously that wasn't MEL'S movie.


Btw, just because Mel's dad is a nutball doesn't mean he is. I can assure you that my parents and I feel very differently about a number of important topics.

[TheEconomist]

36. Im a Jew. No problems here.

I wasn't worried about this movie creating the next Holocaust like so many appeared to be. All that flame baiting just gave the movie a lot of free publicity.

[InvisibleBallots]

40. I think most people agree with you, TE

just saying.

[Charlie Brown]

18. What does the Passion

have to do with Church/state separation? It was privately financed and released.

[seabeyond]

16. you are so wrong what passion was about

my kids had been going to a christian school for 5 years. that spring when passion came out i saw that school shift. they start becoming freakish, ugly mean, totally unchristian. my children were coming home talking about the movie. 8 and 6 no business even knowing about the movie. i think they were even shown a clip once. the theaters were being bought out by churches and families were flocking to it. kids in my sons 1st and 3rd grade were being made to watch this film.

that is when i started flipping out. two weeks of the passion to do and escalation of emotion and then bush stands up and says he is going to change constitution to include bigotry did it for me. i went down to the school spinning saying what are you people doing. you are feeding the ugly. nothing in the movie touches on the reasoning of why christ went thru that. all the anger he was absorbing he knew he would experience,..........it wasnt about the wrong being done to jesus, it was about how he took that wrong and loved those people thru it. but passion fed the passion of anger in the baptist. i watched it

had to pull kids out of that school nov of this year a couple weeks after election. they had changed. they were not the same after passion. they hate,..........as they said no no we dont hate,........they preached hate all over the place

passion was not a good thing

[TrustingDog]

19. it's the twisted interpretations that are not a good thing...

there is nothing wrong in my eyes as to what jesus really stood for. And I'm not religious in the traditional sense At All.

[seabeyond]

21. they took the beyond of that event

and fed it to the public in the lowest of vibration. when i would think of the kids watching that movie, i would think does anyone really think jesus wants a bunch of kids to be watching this. was so sad.

i am a christian. i sit in christ conscious. i know what it is. and i know that what the baptist used this movie for was not in purity and love, .....

no i dont have an issue for christ and what he represents. i have an issue with man abusing power to control and manipulate in the name of christ. no greater sin in my book.

[TrustingDog]

22. with respect, I still don't understand what you're angry about...

did Mel add/subtract/embellish too much from the bible? are you angry that he was the User, or that some Used his film?

[seabeyond]

26. i am not angry, ......where i have issue with the film

45 minutes of the film is in the most inhumane hate filled beating to stir up so much emotion in the audience. they missed the point of the exercise jesus went thru that beating. it was for me in presenting this movie taking the whole reason jesus went thru that torture and making it dirty. the point of jesus was not the beating he experienced. the point the whole point of all the torture and pain that jesus went thru was that he was looking at these people that did this with love in his eyes, he was absorbing their anger and their hate and their fear and he was giving them love back

did you get that out of the movie. or did you get the pain jesus went thru for our sin.

do you see the subtle shift in difference in seeing this experience

in seeing that he did this for us for sin, you miss the whole point of forgiveness. and they know not what they do. in seeing he did this for our sins then it creates an anger and a wanting to get revenge for jesus experience

yet seeing it that jesus knew he would experience this and it was about taking their hate and giving them love, shifts the whole point. it is that we love our enemy. it is that when someone is angry and fearful and attacking you in turn reach out in love, absorb their fear and understand and love them even in it

just for me, passion totally missed the point of what jesus went thru

[TrustingDog]

32. I saw it quite differently...

I didn't have or see any hate for anyone, I just saw what he went through, willingly, for all of us, even his torturers. And the duration made it all the more realistic for me.

[tjdee]

29. That is not the film's fault, it is that school's fault.

That school obviously framed it poorly, and obviously young children have no business seeing that film.

But that's not the film's fault. The film wasn't great, but it was a film. It doesn't have to be even handed, because it is not a documentary. It had a lot of problems plotwise, but I think it's unfair to blame it for people who act ridiculously.

I'm glad you took your kids out of that environment.

[seabeyond]

44. but of course

i like mel gibson. one of my favorite actors and respect and know he poured his soul into this picture. i think he was surprised how the religions grabbed onto it. not just the school but all along the southern baptist religion. and they did take lots of kids to it. this is where i had issuem not adults but kids. i am not bashing gibson. a lot of people did, i stand up for his right to make the movie. even the context of the movie. personally i cant watch two minutes of someone get beat up, i couldnt take 45 minutes of it. just couldnt. obviously i didnt see the movie. just saw behavior from reaction of watching movie

and yes, we love being out of the enviroment. like my oldest says, he feels a freedom.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. Moore won "Favorite Movie"...

and Gibson won "Best Drama" -- which really makes me go "Huh?!?" 'cause I voted online and I could swear that I had a choice between the two in the same category.

Was I drunk?

[For PaisAn]

12. You're right

They were both listed as a choice in the SAME category. Very fishy.

[crazylikafox]

14. you weren't drunk

I'm very sure I saw the same thing. I guess that Martin Sheen's remark about Democracy being alive & well in the movies was premature

[seabeyond]

27. they were not in the same catagory

i know. i went thru it all. what is that family orginization, they sent me the site to go vote. when i went in it was on passion, but did not have f911. as i went thru the different catagories i eventually came to f911

what i am not clear on is which catagory is the best........do they have one catagory, like oscar best picture

[sam sarrha]

15. bunch of Right Wingers whip'n the live'n shit out of a liberal..thats what

people want to see these days

[darkism]

28. Very well put.

Jesus WAS a liberal, it's obvious.

[diamond14]

31. christian SLASHER movie....rated R for violence....loved by all RED state

idiots...it's amazing what amuses them...VIOLENCE, lots and lots of VIOLENCE....and the good old days of ROMAN EMPIRE...

[Swamp Rat]

33. Passion of what?

[proud patriot]

34. Congratulations Mel

I still haven't seen it , I don't think I need to .

It may just break my heart if I were to watch it .

[WMliberal]

38. that's fine.

as long as he wins the fiction catagories. nooooooooooooooo problem.

Snuff film of the year!

[diamond14]

39. LOL ! "Snuff film of the year"...that's about it....those RED states LOVE

violence and DEATH....at the hands of a great EMPIRE, it reminds them of their current crusade in Iraq....they will send MORE and MORE of their own children to bush* wars....

[Deja Q]

43. Oh good grief. That movie was lax on Jesus' life, giving no substance to

the 2 hours of him being tortured, maimed, and viciously killed - complete with elements that some have questioned...

WHat next, Mel? A prequel showing that Jesus was not a saint but a child molester or something? x(

[katinmn]

46. Mel Gibson is a sick-o, plain and simple