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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 05:28 PM
Original message
Pentagon's penalty for resistance
Edited on Sun Sep-07-03 05:33 PM by bigtree
One of us He did the right thing..

A Marine reservist who said he failed to report for duty because he is a conscientious objector was found guilty of unauthorized absence but innocent of desertion Saturday.

Lance Cpl. Stephen Funk was sentenced to six months in prison and will receive a bad-conduct discharge, which results in his losing all military benefits, after he gets out of prison.

WTF? 6 mo.s for unauthorized absence? GB's AWOL record comes to mind. This is punishment for objecting to the war.

While in military custody, Funk's rank will be dropped from lance corporal to private, the lowest rank in the Marines, and two-thirds of his pay will be docked for six months.

Why?

Lt. Gen. Dennis M. McCarthy, commander of the Marine reserves, must still approve the sentence. He can accept or reduce the sentence.

"It seems a bit harsh for the crime," said Stephen Collier, Funk's lawyer, about the punishment. He said he would appeal to McCarthy for a lighter sentence.

What about an aquittal?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/09/07/conscientious.objector.ap/index.html

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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. when you volunteer for military service...
...you're well-aware that your job will probably involve killing/violence/physical force. Is this a true statement?

If not, then recruiters are doing a snow-job.

but if this has been made clear to you, and yet you still sign up, then it seems to me that there's no way you can use the CO status at a later date.

yes, I understand that there are are many who join to get funds for living/college, etc. I know it's hard economically. But, in a way, by signing up, you've given up your rights as far as deciding when and where to fight. Instead of declariing CO status, it would be better to leave the military completely.

Sure, please make a loud stink so that other potential recruits hear your complaints.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes but

What if you sign up with good intentions, willing to put your life on the line and take lives if necesary in defense of your country, but then find you've got an unelected, lying fraud for a president as C in C ordering you to kill and risk your life in an illegitimate, unjustified war of conquest for control of another country's resources and to make his buddies and campaign contributors wealthy.

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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. soldiers are at the mercy of the commander-in-chief
the military recruiters do a disservice in not emphasizing this enough. By joining the military voluntarily, you've given up your rights to say "no, I won't go fight this particular war."

Believe me, I'm sympathetic. I've been attracted to the training and discipline that the military provides.

However, if you're against the Iraq war, your only recourse is to leave the military and go public with your complaints.

The military is not going to be on your side in this, in any way.

I'm open to others' suggestions here...
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. boy, I guess he just can't win
It seems like your position leaves no room for redemption. "You knew what you signed up for, so get over there with your war-mongering friends. We need these kids, no matter when they see the light and we should fully support them. Not just hand them some kind of "I told you so. I frankly don't think an 18yr.old is able to make the same judgments about the service that an older person with more life experience might be able to make.

What purpose does it serve for those of us on the anti-war side to judge him?

There is a period shortly after you sign up when you can opt out.
Some Qand A from Citizen Soldier:

Q. Since I signed, I've been having second-thoughts about going in. Do I have to report for active duty?

No. Spokespeople for each service branch have told us that it's against official policy to force recruits onto active duty against their will. Down in the trenches, where the recruiters operate, however, it's often a different story.

It's common for people, who ask to be released from their contracts, to be told by recruiters that it cannot be done. Sometimes recruits have been told that they can only apply for discharge during Basic training (!). In some cases, enlistees have been told that the military police will come to their home and drag them away on reporting day.

There have even been instances where recruits have been threatened with physical violence. One example is Cresta Crump, an African American from Queens, New York, who received a phone call from a military policeman after he requested release from his contract. "Do you plan to give us trouble when we come to get you?" the called asked. "I'm 6 foot-6, 270 pounds, and have 18 percent body fat. But I'm not trying to intimidate you," he added.

Despite the threats (which the Army denies making), Cresta stood his ground. Today he remains a civilian.

Q: If I decide I don't want to report, what exactly should I do?

A:You should find out the name and address of the commander of recruiting in your area. Write him or her a letter stating that you have decided that you don't want to go on active duty. You should state that your mind is made up and that nothing will change it. If you wish, you can add other reasons (such as a desire to attend college or trade school), which played a part in your final decision. Send this letter "certified mail, return receipt requested." Also, send a copy to your local Congressperson, attention "military caseworker."

Q: What if my recruiter persists in telling me that he or she will come to my house on reporting day?

A:Tell him or her that your decision is final. If you feel the need for more counseling, contact us or a local organization. Remember: you are not on active-duty unless you return to the MEPS center and take the second oath of duty on your reporting day!

Despite their bluster and threats, eventually the recruiting command will send you a letter which states that you have been given an "entry-level separation" because you "refused to enlist." This will end your association with the US military.

Things You Need to Know About Seeking a Discharge
http://girights.objector.org/gettingout/needtoknow.html#76154

Discharge for members in their first 180 days of active duty
http://girights.objector.org/gettingout/entrylevel.html

Homosexual Conduct or "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
http://girights.objector.org/gettingout/homosexual.html#40362

Helping Out: A Guide to Military Discharges and GI Rights
http://www.objector.org/helpingout/description.html
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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. ok - obviously, you know a lot more than I do about how to get out
I don't want to leave these guys out there hanging. Of course, I believe in the possibility of redemption.

What bothers me is the disconnect between the recruiting machine (TV, movies, etc.) and the consequences of individuals signing up.

Only since the 1970s and the "All You Can Be" ads, has the military seemed like a viable alternative to acquiring a skill/education stateside. Prior to that, the draft was necessary to get the manpower needed to fight wars.

Should the military only require those who believe in the mission to fight? What if you're having mixed thoughts about the mission? What if you believe in invading one country, but not another?

The military is not a democracy for a reason. I'm open to some hard facts to discount this.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. They start on these kids in secondary school
Edited on Sun Sep-07-03 06:38 PM by bigtree
thanks to a little known provision in the No Child Left Behind Act that gives recruiters more access to our children than ever before.

Why isn't the military a democracy? What is the reason? It's an old boy's club with a testosterone mentality. I don't buy into the crap that they fill these kid's heads with when they have them under their thumb. Why do they give up rights? They fight to defend everyone else's freedom by giving up theirs? I'm not buying. The military has come a long way in understanding that the soldiers have the same needs as the rest of the citizenry and they deserve the same consideration of their rights. Gays and women's rights come to mind. Family rights are another. The military will have their way, ultimately. But, I have no need to tow their line. Reform! Power to the People! Who, or what, are they fighting for anyway? Who are we fighting for?
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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. thank you - you're fighting for me - for us
I support your vision, but I don't support their mission.

The military has gone through much reform... there's hope.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I slowly exhale...
God Bless our Soldiers.
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Noordam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. He got the right sentence
He signed up, He took the military money, He voted for Bush BUT BUT now He thinks he does not want to work anymore. Bullshit.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You're either with us or against us
Yeah...that's a real tough stand you're taking. I imagine that this is what he is hearing from the soldiers who will keep him in their custody for the next 6mos., and the soldiers he shares jail space with. Tough road.

Noordam to potential resistors: Stay where you are.
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