"Cheerleaders make human pyramids. Is *that* torture?"

[NightTrain]

Well, Mr. Womack, when cheerleaders make human pyramids, they do it:

1) of their own free will;

2) fully clothed; and

3) not covered in their own feces.

If Guy Womack were my lawyer, I'd fire his incompetent ass immediately!

[htuttle]

1. Hmm, if one forced naked Cheerleaders to make a human pyramid

....while you might have a popular, albeit short-lived, website, you'd probably also end up in jail (if you forced them to do it).

[gollygee]

2. All-time stupid quote

that will go down in history.

As if that had any similarities with cheerleaders.

[dave123williams]

3. It's torture to watch, though. The cheerleaders, I mean.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. :^P Pttttthhhhppppppbbbbb! From a former cheerleader, now coach

Me I can't get enough of cheerleading. *g*

http://whatisprox.com/vidclips.asp

----------------------------------------------------------
Save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[dave123williams]

22. Please...the forced bubbly attitude, the perkiness?

It's like enduring gum-surgery. Lots of effort expended in the furtherance of nothing...oh, sorry; in the furtherance of human pyramids and synchronized bouncing around.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Hey, some of us like the physical challenge of sports and want

to smile while pursuing it. *g*

[dave123williams]

32. Well, try an actual sport then.

There's many to choose from; cheerleading is *not* a sport.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. You probably don't think gymnastics, golf, or ice skating are sports

Some folks can't envision a physical activity as a sport unless there are opposing teams occupying a playing field at the same time, or some sort of ball is involved.

Now me, I think a sport is a physical activity that is difficult to do, wherein people compete against each other for the best ranking. Like this: http://whatisprox.com/vidclips.asp

[dave123williams]

36. No, ice dancing isn't a sport, either.

Nor is the ballet. Best ranking? Please...how is it a sport if you're competing for a totally subjective assesment?

Sports are where people actually compete with each other for the fastest time, the highest number of scores and so on. Actual sports have a quantitative victor. Who lifted the most weight for their class? Who ran the fastest for each distance? Who scored the most points in the time allotted?

Not...who had the most perfect faked congeniality? Not...who was the most perky and positive. Not...who was the most synched and psyched.

Golf...is not a sport because it's a simple a cobination of activities...George Carlin has a great bit on this...'golf is the combination of whacking a ball, and taking a walk. Hockey, by this standard, isn't a sport either as it's the combination of ice skating and beating the shit out of people.'

:)

I think that any 'sport' wherein the object is to get the highest mark from a judge, has to be suspect. I watched gymnastics on the Olymics this year; it seemed the whole exercise was to make no mistakes. How is that a sport? Sure it's an athletic enterprise, but a competitive sport? I don't think so.

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. Well there go football and baseball from the realm of sports

Darn those umpires and line judges with their subjective opinions! *lol* ;)

[dave123williams]

39. You should work on your reading comprehension skills a bit...

I said 'where the object of the exercise is to get the highest mark from a judge' is the hallmark of something that's not a sport.

The object of baseball isn't to get high marks from a judge, it's to score the most points in nine innings.

The object of football isn't to get high marks from a judge, it's to score the most points in 60 minutes.

QED.

I'm sorry; Cheerleading is not a sport.

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. You can think that all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Title IX

recognized it as such. :)

Frankly I fail to see why it's the points that make the difference. I think it's the skill level and the difficulty of the activity that should be the factors.

But hey, that's just me. :)

--------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[prayin4rain]

42. This post reminds me of the new Gwen Stefani song that goes

"'cause I ain't no holler back girl, I ain't no holler back girl" ...Don't know why that popped in my mind, or why I felt the need to post it when it did. I am done now.

[cmd]

38. I salute you, GreenPartyVoter

Cheerleading is just as much a sport as foot,base,basketball.
It involves an amazing amount of strengh and agility not to mention the discipline of working with a team. I'm not, nor was I ever, a cheerleader. I just recognize the work that goes into being a good one.

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. Thanks. :^) Me, I was actually NOT that good at it. Really did not

have the physical skills like they use in it these days. Which is part of the reason why I defend it as a sport. I know how freakin hard it is to jump up on top of someone's hands and then stretch myself out into some sort of Yoga stance. *lol*

I love being a coach now. Aside from all the silliness that is involved with spending time with middle schoolers, I love my girls and am so glad they have gotten involved in cheering, as well as the many other sports they do, like soccer and basketball. (We're a tiny school. Each sport team is pretty much up of the same people. :) )

http://geocities.com/aescougarcheer/

[BlueEyedSon]

5. 4) not in fear of their lives if they refuse

5) not sexually assaulted before/during/after

[Eric J in MN]

6. Did any rightwing pundits remark on that quote? (nt)

nt

[Ravenseye]

29. How Insane is the Right Wing

When they defend torture.

When did torturing people, no matter the whens and whyfores, become ok?

Didn't we use to be the country who said we were better than the Soviet Union because we didn't torture people, hold them without trial, or put them in camps. I remember stuff like that. Sure the U.S. Did some nasty things in the past, but the general public line of belief was 'We aren't bad, we don't do bad things, and don't need to in order to win.'

Now they're saying 'Yeah but Torture is ok, holding people without trial is ok...'

*sigh*

[Fleshdancer]

7. if this guy can't tell the difference, then his opinion of....

highschool and college age woman (generally the type of person you think of when you think of cheerleaders) is HIGHLY disturbing. To thread these two completely different situations together in order to excuse torture is mental.

[Taxloss]

8. They're not in fear of their lives, either. n/t

[NightTrain]

10. Hey, I'm sorry about last night, when I snapped at you in another thread.

I mistakenly thought your remark was directed at me, rather than at the topic at hand. I was out of line when I called you "pompous and self-important," and I apolgoize for it.

[Taxloss]

14. Tch, it happens.

Thanks for saying sorry, but it's really not necessary.

Although I did cry all night ... :)

[Kablooie]

9. and YES! It IS torture!

[Ready4Change]

11. Ask any parent of a cheerleader what they think.

What would they think of their daughter (or son) being forced to strip nude then make a human pyramid with plastic bags over their heads while someone else takes pictures.

Time to subpoena Guy Womacks hard drives and internet surfing habits, if he thinks this is "normal."

[AmandaRuth]

12. Mr Womack and the whole defense team

should strip naked, roll around in their own poop and make a human pyramid prime time on Oreallys show, and prove to the nation that it just was no big deal.

[spooked]

13. Someone help me see the similarities here...

[ignatius 2]

15. The sad thing is, when torture is trivialized as these guys are trying

to do, it desensitizes Joe Public.

At work today one jackass said to another, look..they made a prisoner eat pork and called that torture. Jackass #2 said, that's funny.

I said was that before or after they stuck a lit cigarette in his ear.

They both shut the hell up.

[noamnety]

16. The new values

Perfectly acceptable:


An outrageous and intolerable affront to everything we stand for:

[Kablooie]

17. This lawyer is an utter ass.

And Graner is toast.

With this idiotic defense there's no chance of leniency.

[SunDrop23]

45. Graner is an utter JAGOFF

Piece of shit bully. Have you seen the pictures of this dickwad leaving the court room? He thinks this shit is funny.

[Carson]

18. I heard the attorney's statements on radio and he said he used the analogy

to illustrate that the pyramid wasn't physically painful. Of course, that's where the similarities end.

He also went on to say the prisoners were naked because the guards had just quelled a riot and the prisoners were being "shaken down". The pyramid was, in this guy's speech, used to contain them without the use of restraints. If one guy moves suddenly, the rest would fall, making it difficult for the guards to be attacked. According to him, it's a common method of containment when dealing with more than a few prisoners.

Anyone else heard of this method?

[NightTrain]

19. And how does that explain the photos of Graner and his true love...

...Lynndie England standing behind the human pyramid, smiling and giving the "thumbs up" sign? Was that also part of a method to contain the prisoners without restraint?

I believe Attorney Womack's claim is called "damage control."

[Carson]

44. I agree. The attorney said they perhaps they were happy and/or proud

that the riot was quelled. The taking of "trophy photos" is juvenile and criminal, however I don't think those particular photos show "torture."

[Kelvin Mace]

20. You know, the guy has a web site

and was kind enough to give us his email address. Perhaps we should express our opinion of his slimey tactics?

www.guywomack.com

[e-mail]

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

The taste of Republican butt does not improve with age.

"The NeoCons can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They do not feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

[Peak_Oil]

21. Depends.... are they hot? n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

23. Hey, My Niece Broke An Ankle From It

So, maybe it is torture! I'm kidding of course. She went up on the pile of her own volition. She wants to be a HS cheerleader. She is. She assumed the risk. She got hurt. She's now better. She's a cheerleader again.

Not exactly the definition of torture, is it?
The Professor

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Kudos to her for sticking with it. :^)

~Coach Jen

[Turley]

24. One of the sickest things I've ever heard said

this is rock bottom

[SmokingJacket]

25. He's got nothing.

That's why the ridiculous arguments.

His guy tortured people. ON FILM.

Still... maybe he should spend his time arguing mercy for the guy instead.

[BiggJawn]

26. I might drop by Mackie Arena after work...

...and ask the young ladies if they'd mind terribly much nuding up and getting in a pyramid?
Hey, Guy Womack says it's no big thing....

I thought "My Cousin Vinnie" was fiction?
"Yer onner, dees yoots were jis' havin' a leel FUN!"

[htuttle]

27. ?

Yoots?

[BiggJawn]

28. Yoots...YOOTS!

Wassamattawitchu?

[underpants]

30. 'Well, what we're comparing is not whether they're naked'(on CNN Monday)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0501/10/pzn.01.html

Joining me now from Texas is Charles Graner's attorney, Guy Womack, who we saw in Susan's report.

Welcome back, Mr. Womack.

I wanted to start tonight with this picture. It is the picture that you no doubt know quite well of the naked detainees piled on a pyramid with your client smiling and giving the thumbs up sign.

And you said, "Don't cheerleaders all over America form pyramids six to eight times a year? Is that torture?"

How do you compare this to cheerleading?

WOMACK: Well, what we're comparing is not whether they're naked, whether they're wearing sand bags on their heads. I'm sure the cheerleaders don't do that. But, rather, the physical act of being piled up in a pyramid. It's a gymnastic formation. Only the body weight of the individual persons are on any other person. It doesn't hurt them.

The testimony of the witness that testified about that today was that there was no crying. They were merely piled up. And we're having an expert witness testify that that is a valid control measure. It's a tactic that you would use when you were outnumbered by possible assailants.

These were violent individuals who had just led a riot in the prison yard. They were piled up in a pyramid so that, if one tried to move, the others would fall down, and it would give the MPs at least a few seconds to react to the movement.

ZAHN: So you didn't have any problems with someone ordering the prisoners to do just that?

WOMACK: To pile up in a pyramid? Of course not.

ZAHN: Let's... WOMACK: It was much better than strapping them by the neck or other techniques that could have been used. They were merely piled up in a pyramid.

Now what is offensive to all of us is that they were naked. But they were naked because they were just being processed. They had just come from a riot outside the prison wall. They were being in process. They had to be stripped.

They were wearing sand bags on their heads because that's what you do with enemy prisoners so that they cannot see that they outnumber you, that they cannot see exactly where friendly forces are standing, they can't see what avenues of egress they could use for escape. It's very important that you isolate them visually so that they can't escape or fight.

ZAHN: The accusation is that the soldiers should have been aware of the fact that nudity is extremely an humiliating thing to Muslim men.

But I want to move on to another photo today that you also have described, and this is the one of Private Lynndie England leading a prison on a leash, and you have said, "A tether is a valid tool. You're probably been at a mall or airport and seen children on tethers. They're not being abused."

These detainees were in a prison. Why did you need a tether for them?

WOMACK: Well, again, we're going to have more testimony on that. We had testimony today about that. A tether is a device that you use when you need to extract a prisoner from a cell.

If you heard the testimony in court today, you would have learned that that particular prisoner was not dragged out of the cell. He crawled out of the cell while a female was holding the tether. It's believed that the fact that a female was holding the tether averted the violence. The fact that the man was humiliated to be naked in front of an American woman perhaps kept him from fighting.

It's well known psychologically that, in this country, prisoners who are stripped of their clothing become more complacent, they're less likely to fight or try to run because they have no clothes.

ZAHN: I need a brief answer to my final question. How damaging was it to your client today that you had two soldiers accusing your client of beating up prisoners, in one case knocking a man out cold?

WOMACK: Wasn't damaging. That private who testified to that, Frederick, told the court that he'd hit a man in the chest so hard that he said he caused cardiac arrest.

That same witness said that he set up all of the sex scenes, masturbations, the simulated fellatio. That same witness did all of those things himself. He is the one who said that he had received orders from military intelligence and civilian contract intelligence, had passed the orders to Specialist Graner and others. He had also passed along the praise for the good job they were doing and the effect it was having in helping in these interrogations.

ZAHN: So you don't think it hurts your client at all? Well, it will be interesting to...

WOMACK: No.

ZAHN: ... watch you go through this process. Guy Womack, thanks for your time tonight.

WOMACK: You're welcome. Thank you.

[trogdor]

33. I heard the defendant hired him from a classified ad.

In the Stars and Stripes. He's a retired Marine JAG attorney.

[Dorian Gray]

40. Exactly....

That was the stupidest statement that I've ever heard. EVER!

[Lisa]

46. it is if George W. Bush is heading the squad!

remember when defended the branding of new fraternity pledges with a red-hot coathanger?