Can we have a sane discussion regarding "The New World Order"?

[hang a left]

I know I am just inviting trouble here but what the hell.

There have been so many strange happenings since 9-11, as far as legislation goes. We had Patriot I, and then some Patriot II. The Doomsday Bill. The new Intelligence Bill. When you wrap yourself around these and others that have been passed through Congress you have to step back and take a look at where we are heading. Something very weird is happening.

Could it be laying plans for the New World Order? What do you think it is?

[RandomKoolzip]

1. The "New World Order" was just the nomenclature of

some dumb-ass Right-wing survivalist nonsense. I think the roots of the term go back to Gary Allen's "duh"-invoking "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" John Birchian books.

There's a real name for what we're seeing: "Project for the New American Century."

[ally_sc]

6. yep the New American Century...

horror show with your favorite cast of characters wolfie, bill kristol and etc...

[JaneQPublic]

13. More apt title: "New Weird Odor" (nt)

[indigobusiness]

2. Sure

Testimony of Dr Carol Rosin

Dr Carol Rosin was the first woman corporate manager of Fairchild Industries and was spokesperson for Wernher Von Braun in the last years of his life. She founded the Institute for Security and Cooperation in Outer Space in Washington DC and has testified before Congress on many occasions about space based weapons. Von Braun revealed to Dr Rosin a plan to justify weapons in spaced based on hoaxing an extraterrestrial threat. She was also present at meetings in the '70s when the scenario for the Gulf War of the '90s was planned.

http://www.mayanmajix.com/art742.html

The Bush Betrayal



As we defend liberty and justice abroad, we must always honor those values here at home.

~ George W. Bush, October 28, 2003

George W. Bush came to the presidency promising prosperity, peace, and humility. Instead, Bush has spawned record federal budget deficits, launched an unnecessary war, and made America the most hated nation in the world. Bush is expanding federal power and stretching prerogatives in almost every area that captures his fancy. Though Bush continually invokes freedom to sanctify himself and his policies, Bush freedom is based on boundless trust in the righteousness of the rulers and all their actions.

Truth is a lagging indicator in politics. A president's promises and speeches receive far more publicity than subsequent reports and revelations about how his cherished programs crash and burn. This book does not aim to analyze all Bush policies. Instead, it examines an array of his domestic and foreign actions that vivify the damage Bush is inflicting and the danger he poses both to America and the world.

snip

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/bovard2.html

The Neocon Con
Commentary / Commentary
Jul 19, 2004

The Neocon agenda behind Bush's invasion of Iraq required extensive lying and unlimited arrogance, insuring that the occupation of Iraq would fail.

By Scott D. O’Reilly

“Patriotism,” Mark Twain said, “means supporting your country always, and your government when
it deserves it.”

The Bush administration has proven rather adept at exploiting patriotism, and it is hard to think of an administration that less deserves the support it demands as a litmus test of patriotism. For it is the Bush administration itself that has proven disloyal to the values that have made America a representative government dedicated to the rule of law, individual rights, and the common good. The breaches of trust have been legion: an “election” that traduced the will of the electorate through mass minority disenfranchisement, the opaque and unaccountable exercise of power, and the evisceration of civil rights and due process.

But by far the most egregious offense against the ideals of American democracy involves the shamelessly brazen manner in which the United States was misled into an unnecessary war with Iraq that has greatly weakened America’s national security and immeasurably tarnished her image in world opinion. Americans were not told the truth about Iraq because the Neoconservative cabal surrounding the president doesn’t trust the American people; to enlist support for their anti-democratic agenda, they realized they would have to con the American people.

http://www.mayanmajix.com/art1242.html

[yella_dawg]

3. I got a better question.

What is "New World Order"? Like many bogeymen, it seems to have a variable definition based on audience and context, but nowhere have I actually seen a description of what the "Order" is supposed to be. Hell, I might even agree with it if I knew what it was.

[indigobusiness]

7. here: NEW WORLD ORDER (defined)

New World Order (political)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The term New World Order has been used several times in recent history, referring to what appeared to be a dramatic change in world political thought and the balance of power.

While a similar phrase (Novus Ordo Seclorum, in fact a quotation from Vergil) appears in Latin on the back of the U.S. one dollar bill, the phrase "New World Order" was first widely used by Woodrow Wilson in the period just after World War I, during the formation of the League of Nations. The "war to end all wars" had been a powerful catalyst in international politics, and many felt the world could simply no longer operate as it once had. The term fell from use when it became clear the League was creating nothing of the sort, and was used very little during the formation of the United Nations. (Although some have claimed the phrase was not used at all, Virginia Gildersleeve, the sole female delegate to the San Francisco Conference in April of 1945, did use it in an interview with the New York Times).

More recently it was used for a while after the end of the Cold War by many people, notably former U.S. President George H. W. Bush. Many felt the end of the Cold War would have dramatic effects on the international balance of power, including the hope that the end of the Cold War would usher in a new era of international co-operation through the United Nations.

The term has developed pejorative meanings. Certain American right-wing groups such as the John Birch Society have long used the phrase to warn about alleged conspiracies to elevate the United Nations to the status of a world government. Others use it to promote an image of the United States as a bully which no longer has to answer to anyone, and which uses the situation to extend its influence. Thus, extension of the NATO pact to regions in eastern Europe, the Kosovo War, the war in Iraq, and isolation of small "unbending" nations are all seen as examples of this bullying attitude. The elder Bush's use of the term "New World Order" was picked up as a convenient catchphrase to symbolize this attitude.

Closely related terms, the "New International Economic Order" and the "New International Information Order" were popular in the United Nations and its specialized agencies (especially UNESCO) in the 1970s and 1980s. They were used mainly by developing country groups (e.g. the G-77, the Non-Aligned Movement) to refer to the redistribution of wealth on a global scale, and the international control of the media to stop the "defamation" of third world countries. Western countries attacked these plans as an attempt to destroy capitalism and freedom of speech; and they were quietly dropped in the 1980s after Western countries threatened to withdraw from United Nations bodies. (The U.S. and UK made good on this threat by withdrawing from UNESCO; both have since rejoined.)

[Petrushka]

8. "We stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. . . . ",

George HW Bush said on September 11, 1990 in an address to a joint session of Congress and to the nation. "Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective--a new world order--can emerge:..."

"Toward a New World Order", a transcript of former President George Herbert Walker Bush's address, can be found at the following URL:

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/war/bushsr.htm

================================================================
Haven't, yet, read the complete transcript. Just did a google.com search and passed this on. Lotsa stuff out there under "George HW Bush + New World Order".

[havocmom]

4. Is it too early for popcorn?

:shrug:

[ally_sc]

5. what about those microbiologist dying

the one in the parking garage. he was killed.

[indigobusiness]

9. "New World Order": conspiracy theory or demonstrable fact?(reading list)

The New World Order is no longer a conspiracy theory; it is an established fact.



The "New World Order" has been a prominent conspiracy theory for decades<1>. Here and now, as the new millennium dawns, the New World Order has become a globally recognised political concept,<2> and as such it can no longer be regarded simply as a theory.

snip

Consider the official Great Seal of the Unites States of America<5>, which is most commonly seen on the back of the one the dollar bill<6> - probably the world's most familiar banknote. On the US Great Seal, beneath the ancient Pyramid, is the Latin inscription: "Novus Ordo Seclorum". The official translation of this motto is "A New Order of the Ages". The Latin word "Novus" means "New", and "Ordo" means "Order". The Latin word "Seclorum" and its English equivalent "Secular" both share the same three alternative definitions: (1) "Secular" - without religion; (2) "Worldly" - of this world; and (3) "From century to century" - or from age to age. Thus, the motto "Novus Ordo Seclorum" has three different but equally valid translations:

New Secular Order
New World Order
New Order of the Ages

The different meanings of Novus Ordo Seclorum are not mutually exclusive; in fact, they are synergistic. The alternative translations are all as pertinent today as they were "at the beginning of the new American era in 1776." Let this be a testament the wisdom of the men who chose these words, for they demonstrate the esoteric power of language and the written Word.

If secret societies are able to display such esoteric and Masonic symbolism so prominently for us all to see, then perhaps this is indeed the age of Freemasonry. Amen.


REFERENCES, NOTES & FURTHER READING - (hotlinked)

1. The NWO conspiracy theory that "everyone is talking about as we draw closer to the year 2000", BBC Radio 5, Conspiracy programme, October 1998.
2.a. U.S. President, George Bush (Snr) called for "a New World Order", ABC News, January 1991.
2.b. U.K. Prime Minister, Tony Blair's, "push for New World Order", BBC News, October 2001.
2.c. U.K. Prime Minister, Tony Blair, "set out his vision for a New World Order", BBC News, October 2001.
2.d. U.K. Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and "new, globalised world order", BBC News, January 2002.
2.e. U.K. Prime Minister, Tony Blair, calls for New World Order, Evening Standard newspaper, January 2002.
2.f. U.S. President Bush (Snr) "proclaimed the beginning of 'a new world order', according to the website for washington executives.
2.g. President of South Africa, Thabo Mbeki, announced in 1999: "We will make our due contribution to the construction of a new world order", BBC News, 25 June 1999.
2.h. CBC News website talks about President Bush, globalisation, and "a new world order".
2.i. Experts discuss "Bioterrorism in the New World Order", University of California official website.
2.j. ABC News website politics section mentions that "New World Order" arrived during office of U.S. President, George Bush (Snr).
2.k. A. R. Epperson, 1990. The New World Order. USA: Publius Press, Inc.
2.l. W. Still, 1990. New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies. Louisiana, USA: Huntingdon House Publishers.
2.m. W. F. Jasper, et al. , 1992. The United Nations and the Emerging New World Order. USA: American Opinion Books.
3. Knight et al., 2001. Uriel's Machine: Uncovering the Secrets of Stonehenge, Noah's Flood and the Dawn of Civilization. USA: Fair Winds Press.
4.a. Evening Standard (UK), "AD and BC become CE/BCE", 19 February 2002.
In what could be seen as their greatest victory to date, politically correct campaigners have succeeded in getting schools to scrap the Christian calendar.
Breaking with centuries of tradition, the terms "BC" and "AD" are to be replaced with a system known as the Common Era. The two dating schemes are identical and both use the birth of Christ as their starting points, but the secular version does not acknowledge this.
The Latin term Anno Domini, meaning in the year of our Lord, becomes Common Era, or CE, and Before Christ becomes Before the Common Era, or BCE.
The term "common" refers to the fact that the Christian calendar is the most frequently used around the world. The move has sparked outrage among Church leaders. The Rev Rod Thomas of Reform, the Church of England's evangelical network, said: "What they are attempting to do is educate children into believing there is a way of measuring our calendar that takes its dates from an event, the significance of which, they are trying to deny.
"The whole of the Western calendar has been based on BC and AD. To change that for no good reason is to do a disservice to our youngsters."
Colin Hart, from the Christian Institute, said: "This is ridiculous. Between three and four per cent of people in Britain are of a non-Christian faith. This is about white liberals imposing political correctness in schools to ensure children are cut off from the past, for fear of upsetting someone.
"Of course, it is perfectly acceptable to offend the vast majority."
Panels comprising teachers, councillors and religious representatives advise councils in England and Wales on religious education syllabuses.
But defending the change, a spokesman for the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority said: "It's not a question of one way is wrong and one is right, more a question of which is most commonly used.
"CE/BCE is becoming an industry standard among historians.
"Pupils have to be able to recognise these terms when they come across them."


4.b. Daily Telegraph (UK), "History has to be rewritten as school bans BC and AD", 13 December 2002.
... Church officials are also upset by the change. David Guest, communications officer for the Diocese of Chichester, said: "BC and AD have been used for centuries and have not upset people. They do have Christian significance but they have historical significance as well. We would be disappointed if these new terms became the norm."


4.c. Sunday Times (UK), "The Lord isn't PC in the year 2000CE", front-page, 23 January 2000.
"THE Home Office has raised the prospect of scrapping the phrase Anno Domini (AD) in favour of the politically correct Common Era. Outraged churchmen are already mustering to frustrate the advocates of change, led by academics and civil servants..."


4.c. The New American (US), "The New World Religion", Vol. 18, No. 19, 23 Sep 2002.
Presented to the world as a mystical revelation, the UN Earth Charter is actually a diabolical blueprint for global government.
"My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a 'Sermon on the Mount,' that provides a guide for human behavior toward the environment in the next century and beyond."
- Mikhail Gorbachev
Millions of Americans were justifiably shocked and outraged over the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals' notorious ruling on the Pledge of Allegiance. "Can our courts really have sunk this low?" people asked. "How can little Johnny and Suzie violate the Constitution by uttering the words 'under God' while reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in a public school?"
Yet that is what the Court said in its June 26th decision. This ruling was a continuation of an ongoing subversive campaign aimed at expunging all mention of God and all Christian symbols from the public sphere. Judicial activists have ordered our students not to invoke the Almighty's name in prayer on school property. Posting the Ten Commandments on classroom walls is also supposedly a major no-no. Traditional Christmas carols with religious themes are out, as are Nativity scenes. Christmas and Easter vacations have been de-Christianized to, respectively, winter and spring breaks. Many textbooks have dropped the traditional "Christocentric" dating system of B.C. (Before Christ) and A.D. (Anno Domini, In the Year of Our Lord) in favor of B.C.E. (Before the Common Era) and C.E. (Common Era).


5. U.S. Bureau of Engraving & Printing - The Great Seal.
6. U.S. Bureau of Engraving & Printing - The One Dollar Bill (pictures).

http://theinsider.org/news/new_world_order.asp

[seemslikeadream]

10. Patriot I and Patriot II

...

AJ: Stanley, the globalists, the new world order crowd, definitely intend to carry out more terror attacks. I know they would have carried out more attacks if we wouldn’t have done what we’ve been up to, if you wouldn’t have been out there boldly speaking out and many others. And then their electronic Berlin wall has a bunch of cracks in it now. Thanks to good people like yourself and many others who are speaking out and telling the truth. But do you think that they may carry out what they’ve been hyping – a suitcase nuke attack, a biological release to try to smokescreen all of this? I know it’s a catch 22, you’ve got to expose the murderers. We’ve got to get the word out o­n this but some government people that I’ve talk to say, “Yeah, but if you do that, they are going to go even more hard core and must totally try to take over.” But I say regardless, they are already doing that. So what do you say to that?



SH: Well, yeah, I think they have an agenda. They have contingency plans. I think they are laying low now because there are an increasing number of people, like myself, who are openly challenging them and accusing them of criminal conduct. I think they would have done it again if we had not spoken up. I think they’re planning, what they would like to do is silence any dissenters. That’s why we are trying to get the Patriot Act declared unconstitutional in this lawsuit also.



AJ: Let’s talk about polls. In the beginning a patriot is a scarce man, hated and feared, but in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, because then it costs nothing to be a patriot. You are o­ne of those guys who hit the barbwire for us, or figuratively jumped o­n the hand grenade for America. But when you’ve got a Zogby poll, who is highly respected, half of New Yorkers believe that the government was involved. When you have a Canadian poll, 63% o­n average believe that the U.S. government was involved. And some groups, as high as 76% in polls believe the government was involved. European polls, two-thirds show the same thing. We have German defense ministers and technology ministers and another member of their government now, three of them going public, known conservatives, and progressives. You have an environment minister, Michael Meacher, saying that if they didn’t do it, they sure as hell knew what was going o­n. Look, if anybody who is a thinking person looks at the evidence, their official story is impossible. Then you investigate and they are involved in it. Comments to this massive awakening and what’s happening.



SH: Well, I think that’s why they want the Patriot Act to suppress political dissent. They have to, they’re anticipating, they are not dumb individuals. I know these people personally, Wolfowitz. These are criminal individuals but they are smart and so they anticipated political dissent. And that’s why, like the Nazis, their forebears, and their blood brothers, the Nazis and the Stalinists, they’re all for political repression. Every corrupt and criminal government has done this – they suppress their own people: Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Mao Tse-Tung, that’s why we have the Patriot Act. So it’s hand in hand. They had it planned to go right up to September 11th, this was all part of the plan. You have to do it. It was part of my senior thesis. You must follow through the terrorists attacks with a political suppression mechanism in the law. And that’s why they want Patriot I and Patriot II and their plans are to continue launching more terrorist attacks to justify even more repression. The goal is to make this a o­ne party dictatorship in this country, to pursue their dubious ends with their blood brothers like the Saudi Royal family. And also, historical blood brothers, such as the Nazi Germany and the Communist Russian. That’s the goal

http://www.memes.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3293

[Al-CIAda]

11. Could it be laying plans for the New World Order? What do you think it is?

Exploitation of the masses to serve the corporate elite.

[poe]

12. new world order-same old song

there is nothing "new" or "orderly" about these plans and actions. this is just colonialism-imperialism in a different phraseology, globalization if you will. it is simply about conquering and controlling everything. read the papal bull or the project for the new american century. same old song. things are more sophisticated and the banks are more centralized. the propaganda is more sophisticated. the screws are tighter all around. so another big question is what strategies to employ to unravel. on e thing to consider is this "new world order" functions only with an abundance of cheap fossil fuels. those days are disappearing.
create local currency
create local food systems
boycott transnationals
set up work-shares, ride-shares etc.

[democratic wing]

14. New World Order Slavery:The same old song

Yes,and the ENORMOUS profits to be made. Always,always,FOLLOW THE MONEY.

"it is simply about conquering and controlling everything. read the papal bull or the project for the new american century. same old song. things are more sophisticated and the banks are more centralized. the propaganda is more sophisticated. the screws are tighter all around."

[indigobusiness]

15. Fascism:

Fascism:

Is an economic system geared to the needs, not of the people, but of the wealthy elite.

It is a republican form of government

It features extreme forms of nationalism.

While Nazism is a form of fascism, fascism is not Nazism.

Fascism creates "enemies of the fatherland" in order to gain public support. These "enemies" usually include liberals, socialists, trade unionists, and conspicuous minority groups.

Fascism is not conservative, although it often claims to be traditional.

Fascism will replace a free press with propaganda.

<link> http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/Politics/fascism.htm

Also find at: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

The Fourteen Points of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Wake up America, the New World Order is fascism and it is us!

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Legistlation only applies to the USA

so, on its own, it's just a move towards authoritarian government, not a 'New World Order'. Perhaps, considered in conjunction with the continuing attacks on the United Nations, the International Criminal Court, and any other international organisation capable of mitigating the effects of the USA on the rest of the world, and the success of the Iraq invasion, without any real downside for the Bush regime (Bush seems to be more or less singing 'My Way' in this new Barbara Walters interview), it could be seen as an attempt to put the Republican leadership in a position of unassailable power over the rest of the world.

As other people say, the PNAC does seem to be their manifesto - world power, whatever it takes.

[BernieBear]

17. You are absolutely correct. HANG A LEFT In fact, Bush is really only a

continuation of what occurred from George I to Clinton (and I LOVED Clinton) to George 2 (who I do NOT love). Carroll Quigley, a mentor to Bill Clinton, wrote an enormous book "Tragedy and Hope" and he layed it out in the book.

Clinton and Clinton are two politicians who are truly pushing forward the NWO. Bush is playing is role of the "other side". He used to talk a lot about staying out of the UN and no one will tell us what to do, etc. However, that is just a front. Meanwhile he's killing off our troops, engaging them in wars, ensuring we have no Reserves or National Guards. We have foreign troops (Russia for one) doing flyovers across the US and practicing drills here. Now why would they be doing that? Duh.

This is ALL about moving to what is referred to as the NWO. There is no "they" on "our" side. The Republicans AND the Democrats (at least the one's with entrenched power) are on ONE side.

What to do? Well, first keep the second amendment in place and then start thinking about an uprising of the people if you are so inclined.

I personally figure there is a method to the Universe's madness and it will all work out. But someone less sanguine, might think about the R word.

Good Luck. BB

[Minstrel Boy]

18. PNAC can't explain it all. There's another dynamic at work as well,

which seems to have the goal of intentionally bringing the United States to ruin.

The system is being purposefully crashed. Paul Krugman can see it. Why is it? And for whose gain?

The "New World Order" is a loaded term, but far-right paranoia about the UN aside, there is something to it, in that it describes a supra-national component to all this.

Cheney and the Bush Crime Family are not acting in the best interests of the United States, even as they would perceive them. Their loyalties are elsewhere.

[Al-CIAda]

19. Security Nominee Protect Terror-Linked Doctor from Prosecution

Did Bush's New Homeland Security Nominee Protect Terror-Linked Doctor from Prosecution?
Bernard Kerik, Michael Chertoff... Who's Next? Tony Soprano?

Daniel Hopsicker
January 12, 2005 - Venice, FL

Michael Chertoff, appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland Security Department, may have shielded from criminal prosecution a former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled millions of dollars directly to Osama Bin Laden while in charge of the U.S. Government’s 9.11 investigation.

Egyptian-born Dr. Magdy el-Amir, a prominent New Jersey neurologist, was at the center of terrorist intrigue in Jersey City.

-El-Amir gave money to a conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman.

-His brother in Cairo was caught on tape attempting to buy weapons from an American undercover agent for Islamic militant groups.

-Before being arrested in a terrorist deal involving oil and heroin for guns and training, arms smuggler Diaa Mohsen was paid at least $5,000 by one of Dr. el Amir's companies, NBC’s Dateline reported.

And his HMO was suspected by law enforcement of being used to funnel money directly to Osama bin laden.


Wire Transfers to "Unknown Parties"

Chertoff’s client "caused more than $5.7 million to be paid by wire transfers to unknown parties," said the lawsuit filed shortly before the state took over his failing HMO. News accounts about el-Amir’s legal difficulties contain unanswered questions about undue political influence and its effect on national security.
For example, how did el-Amir, who only the month before had been granted a state license to operate an HMO, finagle a lucrative contract from the state of New Jersey in 1995?

“Why was this doctor allowed to start a health plan?” asked the October 25, 1999 issue of the medical trade journal Medical Economics.

“How could this medical entrepreneur, who had no experience running a managed-care or health insurance company, receive a license for an HMO that now provides care to 44,000 of New Jersey's most vulnerable citizens?" asked The Bergen Record. “Moreover, how could the state pay such a novice $ 6 million a month in taxpayers money to take on such a responsibility?”

Why did Michael Chertoff even take the case?

Con't-
http://www.madcowprod.com/01122004.html

[greyfox]

20. Check THIS and see all...

http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/the_road_to_tyranny__34kbps_.rm