Fatal blood clots and computer use...

[Frangible]

I've been doing some research after hearing about Khephra's tragic death, and about what he died from. What he died from can happen to any of us, so I wanted to share what I found.

When sitting in a chair for a long period of time, the femoral artery in the leg can become compressed. Sometimes, this results in the formation of a blood clot. If the blood clot travels to the lungs or heart, it can kill you.

"People need to check that their chairs do not compress the upper and sides of their legs and that there are no sharp edges to the front of the chair. They should take regular breaks. Five to ten minutes an hour to walk around is sufficient," Dr Rutherford said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_venous_thrombosis
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3441237.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2698119.stm

I hope this helps.

[eleonora]

1. -gasps-

thanks for the tip. That is scary. I wonder though, how common it is?

[Stephanie]

8. My friend got this on a plane trip

40 years old, athletic guy. Came home from Europe with pain in his leg which he ignored. Told a doctor friend at the gym who made him go straight to the hospital where they checked him in immediately. He's still on blood thinners a year later. Very scary.

[exploited]

42. Whilst studying for a computer science degree

one of my friends developed pain in his leg and ended up in hosital with deep vein thrombosis. He was a fit, slim 40-something mature age student but now has to take blood thinning drugs for the rest of his life.

I find that hacking away at endless code becomes fully engrossing and the hours pass without any break. I think the problems caused are fairly common because I've also noticed pains and strange feelings in my lower legs. I now sit on a fit ball and find this keeps me in a more mobile sitting position and is also great at strengthening the torso which helps correct back pain.

Computers suck badly. Work at one all day, every day and you'll agree.

[mahina]

2. Thank you so much, it crossed my mind but

I didn't want to be insensitive to anyone who lost a friend.
Mahalo.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Ditto :^(

--------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[kick-ass-bob]

3. that's why they tell people to move their legs around on airplanes too.

:(

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. Yes, as if that's even possible on some airlines

:grr:

[grasswire]

6. I did mention it on one of the threads

Every one of us who spends a lot of time at the computer needs to keep this in mind. It's always a possibility.

[mahina]

7. My nutritionist said that one meal with 50g of fat or more puts

a healthy person at risk of stroke. She showed me a video of blood moving through capiliaries before the 50g fat meal and as it was being absorbed by the person's body. It was amazing to see the blood cells slow down and get stuck in the capillaries.
Just this kind of deal.
So we need to keep the fat down too, its related directly to reducing this kind of risk.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

9. Did she also sell you magic beans

that keep cells from sticking?

:eyes:

[mahina]

10. Please explain

obviously you have something to say.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. I very much doubt it.

but it's worth asking anyways. :eyes:

[mahina]

12. Well anyway this individual has a Ph.D. in nutrition

and is senior faculty at our university. So no, no magic beans. And I do understand that it is a matter of degrees.
Ta

[ArkDem]

13. LOL

[rman]

49. failed

you gotto come up with something better than that.

[Cha]

16. I know exactly what you are

saying..it's not magic..it's the way our bodies work and it's good to know.

I balance my computer time with yoga and running.

[mahina]

19. Aloha no zidzi,

couldn't respond to you in the other thread...aloha kaua!

[Cha]

20. Aloha, mahina!

I'll be back in Hawaii in a couple of years..only the Big Island this time(which I've never been to..but am so looking forward!)

How's linda lingle doing? :)

[mahina]

22. She tried really hard to get enough r's to override a veto,

put all her capitol on the line, and got her ass handed to her. She wasn't just defeated, she was smoked. Depending who we field for gov- if it's Mazie again we'll lose again- she is vulnerable.
Keep the faith!

[Cha]

23. Oh, thanks for answering on that!

I heard when lingle got in it was because the Dems didn't really want it..I hope someone comes through with fire in their bellies in 2006!

What was that "veto" about?:D

[Kingshakabobo]

29. Yikes. That is one Big Mac. n/t

[Lex]

48. Interesting. How long from when the fat hits your stomach

and intestines does that very same fat make it into your blood and start forming clots?

And did you know

" . . . the results of a 14-year study of almost 44,000 middle-aged men, appearing in this week's issue of the British Medical Journal , are clear: "These findings do not support associations between intake of total fat, cholesterol, or specific types of fat and risk of stroke in men."

http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/515355.html

[juslikagrzly]

11. True stuff here

my husband had a DVT last year and was on blood thinners for a year. Thankfully, it's gone. He was only 42 when it happened. He had recently returned to school full-time and was doing a ton of sitting (at the computer, in class, etc.) and the doctor told him to take a break every 10-15 minutes to keep the clot from recurring.

Good advice for all of us.

[ohio_liberal]

14. Oh my

I always sit on one leg in my computer chair. I should probably stop that right now.

[American Tragedy]

17. Damn, I'm doing that right now!

My leg often falls asleep too, which is obviously a sign of poor circulation - aw, hell. I'm 21 years old and I'm already getting paranoid.

[livinginphotographs]

27. Me too.

:quickly uncrosses legs:

[Cha]

15. That's what David Bloom of nbc

died from in Iraq after being cooped up in a tank for so long.

[Lex]

44. Yep, that's exactly what I thought of when

I heard about Kef's cause of death.

Having your body in one position for long periods of time, esp. when your legs are bent causes this.

It happens on long-distance flights too--it's best to get up and stretch your legs and move around on a long flight.

[Ladyhawk]

45. So, is this what happened to Kheph?

Link? I don't want to be morbid. I just want to know why he died. :(

[Lex]

Mama Kef said

"The preliminary results are that it was a blood clot that traveled from his leg to his heart."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2938723&mesg_id=2938723

[Ladyhawk]

51. Thanks...this can happen to anyone.

So sad. Because of his other aches and pains, Khephra may have ignored the extra pain in his leg. :( :( :(

Peace to everyone who knew him well. :hug:

[Nobody]

18. That probably explains why

when I'm sitting for too long, I get really fidgety, expecially in the legs. If I don't get up and walk around, I go nuts.

Even at work I'm always finding excuses to go get something or do something that doesn't involve sitting.

I'm a fidgety person to begin with.

Best wishes to Khephra's family and much gratitude to Khephra Mamma for letting us know.

[Shopaholic]

21. I'm sitting here with both legs curled underneath me as I type

this. I'm a writer and I spent a lot of time each and every day in front of this computer. And yes, I've had the leg falling asleep warning sign too. I really do need to get up and move around each and every hour. I think now would be good.

OP-thanks for the heads-up and info on this for all of us. I was familiar with it but didn't know that much in-depth detail on it before. Let is serve as a warning to us all.

And again, my best to Mamma Khephra.

[elehhhhna]

24. so who else is tanding up right now?

[fob]

28. Me. And I actually started standing and rubbing my leg as I clicked

on this thread.

[elehhhhna]

33. I was doing deep knee bends and ankle rolls. 'splains the typo!

[grasswire]

25. therapeutic aspirin and red wine won't hurt

Adults should be taking aspirin every day anyhoo for cardiac benefit (unless contraindicated by other conditions), and red wine is known to keep those blood cells from sticking to each other.

[JI7]

26. thanks, i'm going to send this to friends and relatives

i always viewed this as a problem for older people or those who have other health problems. but if it's happening in teenage boys who are mostly healthy then it could hurt anyone.

the worst part for those who are victims of it is that something as simple as just moving around a bit more could help avoid the problem. but i'm sure it's because most never considered the problem .

[prairierose]

30. It is also a good idea to

get up & move around regulary & to exercise both the legs & hands & wrists at regular intervals. I try to remember to set a timer & move every 45 minutes or so.

[jmowreader]

31. A chair that won't promote formation of these clots

This is what I use. It's made by a Swiss company called Girsberger, and it ain't cheap, but look close at the leading edge of the seat to see how it curves under.

A lot of chairs in office supply stores have these square-edged seat cushions. These things will kill you. (They'll also fuck up your back, but that's a story for another day.)

If the front of your chair's seat cushion doesn't curve under, get rid of it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. An even better seat for preventing blood clots

[jmowreader]

58. You can't work on your computer sitting on that...

and I hate that seat design anyway. The middle of the seat presses up against my tailbone and gives me a sore ass. I like the seats with the two gel pads and the slot in the middle for your tailbone.

This would be a decent seat for computing, except that it has no back support...



the Drum Workshop 9120 Tractor Seat Throne! Don't ask what they want for one!

[Occulus]

37. Or elevate your feet slightly so the backs of your thighs don't

touch the chair.

I have a desk that has a bottom three inches off the ground. If I put my feet up on it, I get full circulation in my legs and I can sit comfortably.

Periodically changing position also helps prevent this. In fact, there are many things one can do to avoid these clots.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. It's not so much specifically compression of the vessel as inactivity in

general. This is why even healthy young athletic people, if they are bedridden for an extended period of time by traumatic injury or illness, sometimes die from blood clots in the leg (deep venous thrombosis or DVT) that break loose and travel to the lung (pulmonary embolus).

Notable recent examples: Star linebacker Derrick Thomas of the K.C. Chiefs who died from this during treatment following an auto accident and paraplegia. David Bloom, one of the NBC "embedded" reporters during the invasion of Iraq, died from this, presumably from spending so much time sitting and riding around in armored vehicles.

Movement and exercise of the legs is a big part of what circulates the blood through the veins of the legs. There is passive movement, but activity increases it greatly. That's why your leg veins have valves to keep the blood from backing up, it kind of sits there a lot but movement of the leg muscles "pumps" it further up the vein until it gets back to the major veins.

When your blood just sits around, it has a tendency to clot.

This is why now when you have major surgery, you often have "leg squeezers" (sequential compression devices, or SCDs) periodically squeezing the legs to promote blood flow, placed, or are treated with blood thinning medications as in the case of joint replacement surgery among others.

If I go on a long flight, say to Asia, I will usually take aspirin before the flight as well as get up and move around periodically.

[Shopaholic]

36. Bump because everyone here needs to see it and be warned

[Lorien]

38. Yeah, I had a vein stripped because of this

had a lot of pain in my leg and numbness in my toes-even worse after exercise. Ultrasound showed that I was in danger of developing DVT, so I had the vein removed (while I was awake-yeah, it's as bad as it sounds).
My insurance company assured me that it would pay for the surgery, but it refused when the bill came. Now I've got a $2,600 bill that I simply can't pay. If it doesn't kill you, it'll ruin your credit rating!

Wear compression socks on airlines, or even at the computer if you're really concerned about it. They can save your life.

[slutticus]

39. I've heard about this happening to people on long plane trips.

Eeep.

[Ironpost]

40. This happen to me 3 years ago

I'm a concrete finisher and use to strenuous work. Having said that we weren't able to work for a couple weeks due to the weather. I had taken advantage of the time off so I could draw our house plans, using Auto Cad. The first thing I was asked were you on a long airplane flight, I answered what does that have to do with this, he answered that sitting a long time such as a long flight would cause this, at that time I told him about the two weeks off and sitting at my computer and he explained to me that was probably what caused this.

[Armstead]

41. Are blood clots cumulative?

Something I'm confused about.

Do these clots build up over time, or are they short in duration?

What I mean is do they dissolve once you are up and moving around, or do they accumulate once they start building up?

[ebayfool]

50. ...do they dissolve once you are up and moving around...

kicking to see if anyone has an answer, I'd like to know too.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

55. If they are small they may spontaneously break up. The big ones, no.

[ebayfool]

59. Thank you, MM - that gives some incentive to straighten out my ...

bad ways. Seems like I just kinda slid into bad shape without noticing it along the way. Damb, but it's hard to come home from work (I'm a housekeeper, trust me ... when rich folk are paying for cleaning, they damb well expect to get their money's worth LOL) & have the energy to cook complete meals, exercise & all the stuff I KNOW I should be doing. As long as it can be (hopefully) reversed I can try harder! Scared me up a little common sense reading this thread, I've been noticing just about all the symptoms listed, but no insurance, no $$$ - so I kept postponing looking into it.
Jeez, you'd think all the walking, bending & lifting would count for something! (used a client's pedometer one day - came up 6 miles for just that one house) Probably has more to do w/the dietary habits, well ... there goes fast foods - I just started getting to have them in the last 2 years, lived in the mountains for 10 years ... closest town 50 miles each way. Naturally I was fit & felt way better then! Crap!

Thanks DUers, an important thread!

[Ms. Toad]

64. It depends

I have one that's been there for 15 years, but part of it went away. (And a new one formed 10 years after the first one) I was told that after it's been there for a while it isn't really a clot anymore but more like something structural in the vein wall (so the risk of it running away and causing death vanishes).

As for being cumulative - they can be but in a slightly different way than you are envisioning.

If there is a remnant of a previous clot this clot creates the disturbance in the blood flow, particularly when combined with inactivity which makes the entire stream slower. When the slower moving cells encounter the old clot they tend to pool around it (watch the quiet area on the back side of a pebble in a stream). In this quiet pool, the cells tend to stick to the clot remnant and grow. That's why most folks are on blood thinners for life after an episode - if the clot is still there, still impeding the flow, the risk increases that new clots (or new portions of the older one) will form. If there is new matter, there is always the risk this new stuff will move around and create havoc (including death).

It can also be cumulative in the sense that forming one clot may indicate a predisposition to clotting - so there may be more not because of the first one, but the first one may be a indication that you have an underlying problem.

If the clot is hit soon enough with clot busters, particularly if it is smaller, it can sometimes be completely removed. If the obstruction is gone and there are no genetic predispositions to clotting you may be able to get away without thinners (or future clots).

A word of caution for upper body weight lifters, particularly those who have problems with fingers falling asleep while driving: Please have yourself evaluated for risk of thoracic outlet syndrome. (Vein, muscle, and nerves go through a small opening (thoracic outlet) in the pocket between your shoulder and your collar bone. When muscles get bulkier they can pinch the vein and nerve. My DVT in that area was not caused by weight lifting. But - that is now the primary identified cause for this particular DVT, and was the trigger for my second bout. (This particular DVT carries very little risk of moving clots since the clot formation tends to be on the "wrong" side of the clot for that particular complication, - but that large purple arm is extremely painful for a while)

[Deja Q]

43. Holy shit. I sit at a computer 8-12 hours a day.

Maybe I'll exercise more... Thanks for the info. :wow: :scared:

[Lisabtrucking]

61. I bet we have a lot of legs wiggling. I know mine is, lol N/T

[Ladyhawk]

46. Holy shit! This runs in my family, too!!!!

Both my mother and my grandmother are on blood thinners. Awhile back, my leg hurt for a few days and began to worry about blood clots. My mother spent a week in the hospital a few years ago for this condition.

[mitchum]

47. Another friend of mine died 3 months ago from the same thing...

after an uninterrupted 6 hour car ride
Rest In Peace, Bobby Keerse
Rest In Peace, Scott Lowery

[Swamp Rat]

54. Sorry to hear that.

:hug:

[DemBones DemBones]

52. Here's a scary statistic:

"DVT's occur in about 1 per 1000 persons per year. About 1-5% will die from the complications (i.e. pulmonary embolism)."

DVT = Deep Venous Thrombosis

[rman]

53. aprox. 3000/year in the US

if my calculations are correct

would be a bit more in fact, assuming this is more of a problem with adults then it is with children.

[VLC98]

56. Genetic factors....

As Ladyhawk says, in post #46, it can run in families. My Grandfather had a potentially fatal blood clot when he was about 40, but died in his 80's. My Dad had a pulmonary embolism after being in bed for 6 weeks with a broken leg in his 20's, and had a clot in his leg about 2 years ago, but was treated successfully. Apparently there is a fault in the blood clotting process called FACTOR V LEIDEN, might be spelled LIEDEN, I forget. It is hereditary at a rate of 50%, but of four kids only my sister has it.

[shesemsmom]

57. I hadn't heard Khephra's cause of death

is this true

[Lisabtrucking]

60. Thanks for the great info on this, you may of saved some of us. n/t

[dutchdoctor]

62. another thing you should know..

Women using third generation contraception pills have a several fold increased risk to develop DVT (don't know the exact number, but it is high).
Like someone else already mentioned in this thread, it is the inactivity that increase the risk of DVT, so make sure you stand up and walk around for at least 5 minutes every hour, do some squats etc. :)

[Nikia]

63. I probably should be careful about this

My legs have fallen asleep while sitting at the computer. I think that would probably be a good sign that my legs are being compressed. My father also had a deep blood clot in his leg a few years ago, which he did get treated beforeit went to anywhere vital.