republican Senator admits to SS theft - wants to declare US bankrupt....

[ChairOne]

Senator Wayne Allard (R) Colorado:

"I believe we have a problem with Social Security that will emerge in 2018," he said. "At that point in time, Social Security pay out will be more than what is in the fund put in by working people or employers... The money is spent, I don't believe in my own opinion we'll be able to raise the funds to pay it back."

EDIT: Forgot the damn link... sorry...
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_01_09.php#004429

When you intend to pay the money back, it's a *loan*. When you don't, it's *theft*. When you default on loans, even expressing your unwillingness to pay them back, you have a great deal of trouble securing loans (ie *investment*) in the future. Without people investing in America, America goes straight to the crapper.

Why do republicans hate America?

And why does over 1/2 of America love republicans?

The conclusion of those two questions is of course: why do Americans hate America?

sheesh.

[saltpoint]

1. Which Republican senator are we talking about here?

[ChairOne]

3. Sorry - fixed now.... /eom

[saltpoint]

4. Hi, ChairOne. Ah -- Wayne Allard!

My thought is, Allard and other GOP senators need to hold a press conference to denounce the economic recklessness of the current Bush administration.

A warning about the SS crisis would be worth hearing if Bush weren't blowing billions in Iraq.

Do you think Bush's proposal to reform SS will fly, or will the Congress rise up and defeat it?

[ChairOne]

6. lol - except for the fact that there is no crisis....

Will bush end up getting his way on it? Dunno. Looking like a tough row to hoe at the moment tho... Josh Marshall has adopted the issue as his pet, and is following Congress' stances on it pretty closely...

Drum, Krugman, and others are good at explaining exactly why there just is no crisis, not even an imminent problem...

I suspect Allard is just doing the bad cop in the show. Scare the public into thinking the country's about to go bankrupt, and then cue good cop: "It's ok folks, just 'reform' it like this, and everything'll be fine! YukYukYuk".

We'll see...

[Salviati]

8. I guess the real problem is if they have to default on the debt...

if they're talking about a "SS crisis" in 2018, that must be what they mean. For once I'd like to see someone call them on it...

[ChairOne]

11. Don't count on the MSM to do it..... sigh.... /eom

[saltpoint]

12. Your take on it sounds right to me -- with Allard kind of --

-- playing good cop/bad cop.

[Strelnikov_]

13. If Their Argument Is That The SS Trust Is Gone Due To Fed Insolvency

in 2018, how is privatization going to help?

Our financial system will be in collapse.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. He's not reckless, he's "steady" "stalwart" "determined" "you know where

he stands" "focused" and a lot of other euphemisms that have no basis in our current reality.

[purduejake]

2. They hate our freedoms...

And our value for equality. Ugh.

[Patchuli]

5. Uphill battle

is what * is going to get on this one from his own side. Political
war from folks who happen to need their SS.

SS is not broke and it doesn't need 'fixing.' You know like
Iraq didn't need 'fixing' either. And, without Iraq, * wouldn't have
still had all those Republicans loving him, without 9/11, he wouldn't
have had diddly. Pretty pathetic, actually.

[peacetalksforall]

7. It's not 1/2 - it's only about 1/3

1/3 is there true base - the base who will believe anything, plus an 'x' number of people who will sidewith them for antiquarian beliefs about fiscal responsibility or fear of foreigners or an ultra distorted belief in patriotism.

They stole the difference that makes you think they have half.

[Lorien]

9. Because they love their money more than they love their country

repealing the tax breaks for the rich would help our country, but they would rather see us become a third world nation then let go of their $$$.

I once had such a good income that what I paid in taxes was nearly DOUBLE my current income. Back then, I never complained. instead, I was thankful to live in a country where I could make such a respectable income that would leave me with such an enormous tax bill; the bill was evidence of my success, and I gladly paid it. Republicans are not thankful, they are spoiled, selfish, and anti-American. They believe that battles for profits overseas are for someone else to fight while they reap the benefits. They believe that their personal desires and freedoms should trump every other American's. They even hate the land of their country, wanting to destroy God's creation for their own short term gains. They only crow "USA! USA!" because it's the place of their birth, and so they see it as an extension of themselves. They are like a bullying parent who beats up other parents for calling their kid out a little league; they'll pummel little Jimmy themselves when they get home. It's not about their kid, it's about their ego.

They never loved America; they only love themselves.

[PA Democrat]

10. They want to go after SS?

I say we go after THEIR taxpayer-funded pensions and THEIR taxpayer-funded health care.

[Strelnikov_]

14. In Other Words, Hope You Liked Your Tax Cut

because that was your retirement.

[ChairOne]

16. UPDATE: Atrios points out that Allard is in an even *worse* pickle...

Gotta love Atrios...

http://www.atrios.blogspot.com/

14th amendment:


Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned

(Atrios doesn't seem to have permalinks...)

Bottom line: It's UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the the govt to declare that it's defaulting.

They really do hate America folks, they really do.

[Cocoa]

17. he's not "admitting" anything

he's just spreading the same old lies about the state of SS, and about the nature of the debate.

[ChairOne]

20. So I took some poetic license...

... sue me... it's functionally the same thing...

[Cocoa]

21. not just poetic license

poetic license that exactly matches the anit-SS rhetoric in two ways.

First, it exaggerates the state of crisis in SS.

Second, it appeals to anger toward some entity that is stealing the money out of the SS fund.

[ChairOne]

23. Not true.

I said he admits to it. That doesn't mean it's actually the case - just that he thinks it's the case, and he's copping to what he thinks is the case. Which is actually not the case, but he thinks it is.

phew. lol

[Cocoa]

24. you assume he's sincere

when in fact he's telling the biggest lie of all, when he implies that he or any conservative wants to save Social Security.

[ChairOne]

26. I made no such assumption....

... the "poetic license" lie partly in my playing along with his charade...

EDIT: As it were, imagine the OP were an article in The Onion... Or the subject line at any rate... In any case, I surely could've been clear about what was true and what was false, and where I was speaking propia persona, and where not...

[JHB]

18. No, in 2018 it'll start drawing from the Trust Fund...

...You know, that thing that exists because they hiked the payroll taxes back in the 80s to pay for the Boomers' retirement...

You're gonna turn around and tell me that the thing I've been paying a higher rate for doesn't exist? That you STOLE all that money from me?


I don't THINK so!

[ChairOne]

19. Um, that's EXACTLY what he's telling you....

... and moreover, he's telling you that he has no plans to pay you back.

[Yupster]

22. Here's how it will be done

In 2017 the congress will pass the Unified Budget Reconciliation Act.

That will fold the social security system including the trust fund into the general budget of the federal government.

With the stroke of that pen the trust fund and its trillions of dollars of liability will disappear as the budget can't owe money to itself. The amount payable and due will cancel each other out.

It's as simple as that. Pffft. The trust fund disappears just like that.

So what about the checks that are sent out? They'll keep getting sent just like always and congress will raise the retirement age and raise the payroll tax just as they did last time, but the trust fund and its supposed assets? They're gone -- death by accounting ledger.

[theboss]

25. I think he is addressing the trust fund issue

Which has been a concern for twenty years since there is no trust fund.

[indepat]

27. Because of a right-wing inspired and created mass-psychosis?

[Neecy]

28. *sigh*

I want to vomit all over again when I remember how MSM mocked Al Gore for the 'lockbox'. Instead, we let the looters in and their fingerprints are everywhere - and they aren't done plundering us yet.