Monsanto Suing Farmers Over Piracy Issues

[DustMolecule]

<snip>
SAN FRANCISCO - Monsanto Co.'s "seed police" snared soy farmer Homan McFarling in 1999, and the company is demanding he pay it hundreds of thousands of dollars for alleged technology piracy. McFarling's sin? He saved seed from one harvest and replanted it the following season, a revered and ancient agricultural practice.

"My daddy saved seed. I saved seed," said McFarling, 62, who still grows soy on the 5,000 acre family farm in Shannon, Miss. and is fighting the agribusiness giant in court.

Saving Monsanto's seeds, genetically engineered to kill bugs and resist weed sprays, violates provisions of the company's contracts with farmers.

Since 1997, Monsanto has filed similar lawsuits 90 times in 25 states against 147 farmers and 39 agriculture companies, according to a report issued Thursday by The Center for Food Safety, a biotechnology foe.
<snip>

More: http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory.asp?cat=news&referrer=welcome&id=20050113/41e60050_3ca6_15526200501131585117613

[Reverend_Smitty]

1. If there is a corporation more evil than Monsanto...

I'd like to hear about it...

[Walt Starr]

28. Archer Daniels Midland?

:shrug:

Don't they use exactly the same practices?

[UdoKier]

2. How can you copyright a life form?

I don't get it. Monsanto didn't make the seed he saved, his previous crop did. They should have been thrown out of court ages ago.

Now, why he would want to use their frankenseeds is another question...

[Reverend_Smitty]

3. It was OKed by a 1980 Supreme Court ruling...

that companies can copyright living organisms up to a certain point. I forget what the guidelines were but it was apparent that the people sitting on the court at that time had no idea what kind of Pandora's Box they were opening

[DrWeird]

4. I agree with monsanto on this one.

It's like renting a movie and then making a bunch of copies and distributing them.

[Squatch]

6. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one...

(which is a first, I believe :-) )

I wonder if they have a leg to stand on.

[DrWeird]

9. Yes, they do.

They've got the patent. The farmer, at least from the quick blurb I read, is clearly infringing on that patent.

[Squatch]

13. How do they account for cross-pollination?

Could an adjacent farm planted with Monsanto seed contibuted to the gene pool at this farmer's place?

[DrWeird]

18. No.

The farmer bought the seed from Monsanto and then kept the seeds from the crop for replanting, which would clearly have been against the contract when the farmer bought the seeds in the first place.

[Squatch]

20. OK...I see

Gotcha.

[sandnsea]

29. Better rethink and quick

You do understand seed is food, right? It's from the planet, it's basic life. What happens when ALL food plants are derived from patented seed? Saving seed to feed yourself is a basic human right, the most basic of all of them. If we let corporations take away the basic right to grow food, the human race is truly fucked. I cannot believe people who don't understand what these corporations are doing to us.

[DrWeird]

37. What if giant japanese robots take over the world?

We better destroy internal combustion engines, before they become our masters.

And looms. The Luddites were right about that one.

[sandnsea]

39. Giant japanese robots???

Okaay, if that makes you feel better.

Did you read the article about Coke using so much water in parts of India that farmers can't grow crops? People better wake up. There's limited resources on this planet and once we let corporations have total control, it's going to be hell getting it back.

[DrWeird]

42. I agree, environmental concerns are very important.

But I still agree with Monsanto in this case.

[Walt Starr]

45. In this specific case, Monsanto is right

I agree with that because the farmer signed a contract.

But that's not the extent of what Monsanto is doing. They are spreading this gene in the wild and then suing farmers who, through no fault of their own and who have never signed a contract, end up with the Roundup gene in their seeds.

[Squatch]

5. How do you prove it was their seed?

DNA mapping?

[DrWeird]

8. Fingerprinting.

Of course, there may have been an obvious phenotype.

[Squatch]

11. It's also concievable that evolution and natural selection

"created" the same seed that Monsanto did in the lab. (although probably not in this short of a time span)

[DrWeird]

14. No, it's not.

It's inconcievable, and ridiculous to suggest.

Maybe the guy who killed Nicole just happened to have evolved the exact same DNA as OJ.

:eyes:

[Squatch]

17. You're going to have to be patient with me...

I haven't had biology in about 15 years. Not much need for it in engineering.

I am basically speaking out of my ass in this thread. :crazy:

[DrWeird]

19. LOL. That's alright.

nt

[progressiveBadger]

15. Maybe, but they may have introduced a marker or something...

which would never have evolved naturally.

[progressiveBadger]

12. Can you imagine...

if they ever genetically modify their seeds to produce plants with their logo on the fruit? Mmmmm... Monsanto brand tomatoes!

[progressiveBadger]

10. Yes

That is pretty much how they prove it. The original crop was planted using Monsanto genetically modified seeds. That modification was unique to Monsanto.

[Kingshakabobo]

16. The bio-tech firms are copy writing our own DNA as they unlock the codes.

60 Minutes did a story on the subject about a year ago.

Does anybody remember the story?

From what I remember, the first company to unlock the code gets the financial gain from medicines produced from that knowledge. Kinda crazy.

[arcane1]

7. this seems to never end, and pisses me the hell OFF

:grr::mad:

sadly, monsanto is one of our company's biggest customers :(

it's only a matter of time until the naturally-occurring strains are wiped off the face of the earth, and ALL vegs will be these one-generation monstrosities, and monsanto will effecively rule the world

[flobee1kenobi]

21. The way I would present it

you bought seed-you planted the seed and the seed became the farmers plant
Its no longer a seed and the plant is yours to do whatever you want to do with it

I'm not a lawyer-but I did stay in a holiday inn express last night:)

[arcane1]

22. sadly, they have contracts

that's how they get us :(

[Reverend_Smitty]

24. Where are those old time populists at any more?

you know the ones that we used to have that fought to give the land back to the people? The Midwest used to be crawling with them

[Walt Starr]

46. The key is, don't buy seeds from companies that require those contracts

:shrug:

Pretty simple solution if you ask me.

[MadHound]

25. Well,there are ways to fight back, even if they're small and personal

Do what I'm doing, join the Seed Savers Exchange<http://www.seedsavers.org/Home.asp>. Plant your garden with heirloom plants and vegetables. If you're growing an orchard, check in with Trees of Antiquity<http://www.treesofantiquity.com/> to order organic, heirloom tree starts.

The only thing that I'm worried about is cross pollination. I've read of crops getting pollinated by GM plants, and the manufacturer, ADM, Monsanto, et al, received a court order that allowed them to destroy the crop that their plants pollinated, again that copyright nonsense. And they didn't have to recompensate the owner of the crop. Utter BS.

So get out there all of you gardeners and start planting heirloom crops. Who needs a frankenfood when you can grow the real thing just as easily, and tastes better to boot(oh, and you can save your seeds).

[sandnsea]

31. Thanks, good resources

Bookmarking. Heirloom garden this year for sure. Are we getting this info out to all the community garden sites in the country? They need to make this part of their practices too.

[gaia_gardener]

23. Most likely Monsanto will win

they've sued before and won. One guy never bought the seed from them, never signed a contract, he just had plants come up in his field (either cross-pollination from his neighbors' fields or a mix-up at a plant). Monsanto won because the guy knew what he had.

However, Monsanto pays seed-processors to sample seeds and send to them for testing so that they can determine if a farmer has seed that has been cross-pollinated. If they do, Monsanto requires that they destroy all their seed and buy new seed because they now know that they are in possession of patented seed. I don't know if any of those have went to court or not, it is so expensive to go to court and most small farmers are already operating on a slim margin.

[Sgent]

26. Wonderful application

Of patent law -- not copywright (they are different). Patent law allows the original AND derivative works to be under the control of the patent holder. They are not good indefinately (about 20 yrs), but they are extrememly powerful.

Even if someone develops their own seed, if it infringes on Monsanto's patent, then they must pay licensing fees to Monsanto.

The product is actually very useful. It combines soybean/corn seeds with Roundup herbicide. The Herbicide kills everything in the field, and the soybeans don't die due to genetic immunity.

To buy the seeds, you have to sign a contract, etc.

[gaia_gardener]

34. Only useful to people who use roundup

a lot of organic farmers are being put out of business. They had no idea that their seeds were tainted and the tainted seeds were of no benefit to them.

Patent law needs to be changed in regards to plants. If the originating company can't control its product, tough shit.

[DrWeird]

38. And irrelevant to people who don't use Roundup.

nt

[gaia_gardener]

41. Yes, except Monsanto is testing

all seed to see if anyone has seed that has "their" gene. If they do, regardless of how it came about, those people are being sued and put out of business.

It would be irrelevant, except it is escaping into the wild and people are being sued over it. It becomes awfully damned relevant when it is your crop that is destroyed.

There are quite a few conspiracies that Monsanto is purposefully planting their seed in organic fields so they can put organic farmers out of business. Those farmers then end up having to sell their land, which is generally bought by a "conventional" farmer, who will use Monsanto products.

I think Monsanto is evil. I never used nutrasweet anyway, but when I found out it was a Monsanto product, I became a zealot against it. I'm a zealot against all monsanto products. I won't even allow roundup in my home.

[Walt Starr]

44. Roundup will destroy your home garden!

Seriously, your land will become addicted to it! Proper organic gardening methods will keep the weeds down anyway, and biodiveristy is critical for a healthy garden anyway!

What Monsanto is pushing is both shortsided and potentially dangerous!

[gaia_gardener]

47. No roundup here

I said home, but to me, my home extends to my garden.

I am a strictly organic gardener/farmer (I'd love to be a farmer, but money constrains me to a home garden). I will probably never be certified organic as that takes too much time, organization and record-keeping. But I support certified organic farmers (and farmers who I know well enough to trust that they are sticking to organic policies even though they are not certified).

[Walt Starr]

48. Heck, I won't even use Scott's on my lawn!

I'm an Espoma fan for granulated lawn fertilizers. It's based on chicken manure so your lawn smells like a Co-op during chick season for about a day, but it works excellently.

Beyond that, I also used sifted compost and bat guano tea. I end up with the greenest lawn in the neighborhood! I have a few weeds, but nothing you'd notice unless you get right up on it and look closely, and that's the biodiversity that shows I have a healthy lawn.

For grub control, which also keeps down the moles, I've treated my lawn with milky spore and I spray nematodes each Spring.

[Kingshakabobo]

50. You are like a Hippie "Hank Hill"

"My lawn is in a constant state of readiness"- Hank Hill

[Walt Starr]

55. I wouldn't exactly say that

"My lawn is in a constant state of being well fed organically." - Walt Starr

:evilgrin:

[gaia_gardener]

51. I don't keep a lawn

I end up with one because I can't afford to turn my whole yard into gardens, but I do try. For the green stuff that ends up where a lawn usually is, I do nothing but mow it to 3". No fertilizer, no water, no nothing. I'm sure my neighbors hate me, I don't care. Lawns are not natural.

[Walt Starr]

53. IF I did that in my HOA, I'd be in trouble

lawns are a requirement. I still do numerous beds, but grass in fron is a requirement.

[MadHound]

49. Actually, it is quite relavent to commercial organic farmers,

As well as those with certain allergies.

It is relevent to commercial organic farmers because they have to(at least in some states, CA comes to mind) go through a multiyear process before they can be certified organic. All of that time, effort and money goes to shit if a GM crop cross pollinates their crop. They can have their crop siezed by ADM, Monsanto, whoever and destroyed under the auspices of "patent violation". Plus, they have to reworkd their fields, and start the certification process all over again.

In addition, it is relevent to people with certain allergies because they could go into anaphylactic shock and die if they eat the wrong GM crop. Take strawberries for instance. There is a GM strain of strawberries out there that has had a gene or two from north Atlantic codfish attached in order to strengthen the strawberries resistance to cold weather. So, this person with the fish allergies unwittingly eats these frankenberries, goes into shock and dies. Serious relevance there friend.

In addition, it could have consequences for those who follow various faith based diets. Would the lettuce be kosher if it had pork genes attached?

GM food is a monster that is starting to hit home. Quite frankly I think that it needs to be done away with altogether. Nature made the food just fine the way it is. There is no need to gum it up with man's work simply to make money.

[Walt Starr]

54. Could you give me more information on the use of fish genes?

My wife is allergic to ALL seafood (not just shellfish or a saltware fish, ALL mollusks and fish fresh and saltwater).

[MadHound]

56. Well, from what I've read

It hasn't made it's way to market yet, it is something that the GM engineers are working on, and it may or may not come to market depending on the success of these things. Essentially they are taking the AFP gene out of the fish(which is what keeps a North Atlantic fish from freezing solid, a natural antifreeze so to speak) and splicing onto the strawberry DNA. A kind of "Gee whiz, look what we can do" experiment. Here are a couple of links that briefly mention this <http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/159><http://www.greenpeace.ca/shoppersguide/what.php>

Whether or not this one protein sequence that is grafted onto the strawberry will kick off a person's allergies, since this is all still under development. However I would recommend that your wife and all folks who have food allergies start buying organic, or growing your own, just to make sure. It was another reason why I bought out in the country, so I could have the room to grow my own food. The backyard I had in the city simply didn't get the sun for a good garden(though I did have wild strawberries popping up the last couple of years)

[Walt Starr]

40. Not totally

"The Supreme Court ruled Monsanto owns and controls the gene, so the liability issue now follows the flow of the gene,"
says Schmeiser. "Monsanto is totally liable for contamination and pollution of anybody's field now."

This was a Canadian case, though.

[Walt Starr]

27. There needs to be an "open source" seed breeding project to counter this

Heirlooms, which need to be saved and propogated are the best place to begin. Through observation and selective breeding, much of Monsanto's "patented" traits could be produced and pateneted seperately as a completely different route to production is achieved.

Once patented, the patent holder would then release the eeds to farmer Co-Operatives where a "license" must be signed. What is required of the license is that all F2 generations and beyond must be released under the same "license.

After a few generations, Monsanto gets sued for cross pollination with open source seed products.

[sandnsea]

30. See #25

I'm going to bookmark those sites and grow an heirloom garden this year. It isn't the GM seed that bothers me so much, it's the corporate control of our food supply. It's just beyond stupid that we're letting corporations do this to us.

[Walt Starr]

32. I always grow heirlooms

Hopefully, I'll end up with a vegetable garden large enough to begin experiementing with some home made F1 hybrids soon, too!

[sandnsea]

33. I haven't gardened in years

I was going to this year anyway because my daughter is pregnant and I want her and baby to have fresh veggies. I never had alot of time to do that when I was raising them. Just the occasional strawberries or tomatoes. But this corporate food is getting way out of hand, gives me an extra reason to put that garden in!

[gaia_gardener]

35. I just checked my containers yesterday

and I have all kinds of tomatoes and peppers popping up. I'm going to let some grow, just to see what they are. Several of our plants were heirlooms, but quite a few were hybrids.

We grow in containers because we just seem to have better yield (too much last year). I need to get out and plant my lettuce or it'll be too late for this year - know any good lettuce varieties for HOT, HOT weather? I've heard black-seeded simpson, but I thought it went bitter pretty darn fast last year.

[u4ic]

36. Here's Percy Schemiser's website

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/ He is a Saskatchewan farmer who's been battling them for years, saying that some of Monsanto's seed was blown into his farm from another's, contaminating his own field.

Here's a bit of background on the case (do you know they have a 'snitch line'?): http://tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/canola/

Monsanto uses private investigators from a Saskatoon firm to check out the tips. Investigators patrolling grid roads took crop samples from Schmeiser's fields to check for Monsanto's DNA.

Monsanto doesn't apologize for playing hardball. But the Monsanto representatives insist the whole process is very friendly. Monsanto calls its investigations, "audits."

But court documents show Monsanto ordered its investigators to trespass into Schmeiser's fields and collect samples. Then Monsanto agents paid a secret visit to the company that processes Schmeiser's seeds for planting.

[gaia_gardener]

43. His biggest mistake was admitting that he knew what he had

and then continuing to propagate it. He knew he had patented seed and he continued to use it (some say to the exclusion of other seed he had).

[Kingshakabobo]

52. I think some rock salt in a shotgun should take care of those auditors.n/t