my response to a friend/Nader fan who thinks he's further left than me

[freeplessinseattle]

simply b/c he doesn't trust dems (though he voted Dem-this time, but "didn't go ringing doorbells" like I did, he scoffed at me). I could go on and on about those narcisstic Naderites who think they're so pure voting on "principle" when they're actually being incredibly selfish, taking a vote away from a party that has a chance to win and uphold leftist values to some extent, all that just to satisfy their own ego. I don't see how someone can hold such strong leftist values and say "FU" to fellow citizens at the same time, FU, who cares if rethugs are in charge and destroy the world, at least they can feel proud that they stood on "principle" (????)

anyway, my point, I'm going to try this out tomorrow, pointing out that "It's all well and good to say that such and such a party would be better, but if they don't have much of a track record how can you say that they'd be better?" I mean really, is he psychic?

sorry, just my rant, I'm sure everyone has those acquaintances who act like they're so superior for making a dumb, but "principled" choice in the voting booth. so hypocritical to their supposed leftist values.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. "Narcissistic fibrosis" Thats how shrub slipped in, Elite an attitude ,

Not a group of overly enlightened, well informed, super conscience people, their prigs, nothing more.

[freeplessinseattle]

5. "narcisstic fibrosis" good one, hadn't heard that before! love it!!! (nt)

[Demit]

2. I felt that way leading up to the election--that third party folks would

be insane to be spoilers this time, would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. (Looks like your Naderite friend agreed, huh?.) But the leadership of the Democratic Party seems to be insisting on moving even further right than they've been. Where will that leave you and me and our leftist values? I mean, I'm a lifelong Dem, and I'M not sure I trust the Democratic Party anymore.

[freeplessinseattle]

3. exactly, neither of us trust them, but he trusts the rethugs slightly

less then he trusts the dems, so that means he's further left? I think it should depend upon how strong your ideals are and if you practice them in everyday life.

I agree that the Dem party is dissapointing lately, and hard to trust any politicians, but how do we know that Nader, or Cobb or anyone would be any better? (ok, Nader has demonstrated his ideals well, but who's to say he's not vulnerable to caving and losing some spine to keep a foot in the door?)

he also ranks on dems in general, when I noted that our leaders don't necessarily represent us as well as we'd like, and power corrupts the corruptable. he noted that 50% of dems surveyed said they supported the invasion of Iraq (way back when) which doesn't seem like it should characterize the party, until now the peace movement was pretty much on the fringes, important but not that much of a priority considering the US was not at war, so while some of us always considered that an ideal and gave some dep thought to peace/war before 9-11, a lot of dems were thinking aboit the environment, discrimination, reproductive rights, worker's rights, etc, which are solid values. while I'm disappointed in the attitude towards war that a surprising number of dems hold, I still think that other values are alive and well among the dem voters. then again, just voting a certain way doesn't mean a person practices or gives much thought to those values, or even knows what they are, sadly enough.

[KG]

4. well, good for you.